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Panasonic 2011 Tv Line Up

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unexpectedly pulled the trigger on a 65VT30 today, $3850 at local HN

Sounds like something I could do...

Be interested to hear your view on it, once you've got it.

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Be interested to hear your view on it, once you've got it.

you and me both :D:D

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Im interested to see how successful you will be with your argument.

I hope you can talk them into a vt3065 but i reckon they wont have it.

Let us know how you go, as it may help others ina similar situation.

Just to report back on this. The extended warranty company agreed (after a lot of persuasion) to supply a 65VT30. Unit shipped from Panasonic yesterday, should get it Tuesday or Wednesday.

In the end, it came down to 2 options (as my unit was irreparable), they could either give me a refund or supply an equivalent model (that being the 65VT30, as confirmed my both HN and Panasonic). There was some resistance (as expected), but after a call to the QLD OFT, a letter, and a few stern phone calls (to both Panasonic and the Extended Wty Company), they decided to "do the right thing" (their words). Panasonic helped by supplying a unit at a discounted price (as they should).

Best advice I can give to anyone in a similar situation is know your consumer rights and stand your ground. Even without extended wty, HN/Panasonic are still liable to repair/replace/refund under Consumer Guarantee Law (for a length of time that it is reasonable to expect the goods to last for).

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Steve,

Talking of rights, they could very well have turned around and offered a 55VT30 and a small cheque or offered the 65TV30 but asked for some financial assistance from you for the 'upgrade' - they would have been well within THEIR rights as a manufacturer.

However, all's well that ends well, I'd say you came out of that way ahead, well done.

BB

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Steve,

Talking of rights, they could very well have turned around and offered a 55VT30 and a small cheque or offered the 65TV30 but asked for some financial assistance from you for the 'upgrade' - they would have been well within THEIR rights as a manufacturer.

However, all's well that ends well, I'd say you came out of that way ahead, well done.

BB

Maybe I missed something in my research and discussions with the OFT. Could you send me a link to material that states these manufacturer/merchant rights? (I don't mean to sound like an arse, but I am genuinely interested to fully understand the rights/liabilities of merchants/manufactures, as no doubt will need this understanding again one day) :/

HN (the merchant) could have offered those outcome options, yes, but it's certainly not their right to only offer those outcomes.

See When goods or services do not meet a consumer guarantee.

For goods, if the problem is major, you can:

reject the goods and get a refund or

reject the goods and get an identical replacement, or one of similar value if reasonably available or

keep the goods and claim compensation for the drop in value caused by the problem.

For a major failure, you get to choose which option to take, not the business.

The extended wty broker, on the other hand, is bound by their own terms and conditions.

Lets face it, it's a pretty poor situation when a manufacturer can't supply spare parts for an item that was current ~6 months ago (and we're not talking a cheap POS TV here). However, the rep. from Panasonic did say if the extended warranty was with them, I would have received a 65VT30 straight up, no problems.

Anyhow, in this situation, the onus was on the extended wty broker, who's terms clearly state that if the product cannot be repaired, or replaced with an equivalent model, then a full refund would be issued. The acceptable outcomes were 1) Repair the original unit, 2) Refund, 3) Replace with 65VT30. As it turns out, they were able to source a 65VT30 from Panasonic for less than what was paid for the 58VT20.

In saying all that, even without extended warranty (which is really just meant to be a "trouble free" wty), consumers are protected by Consumer Guarantee Law. This is where the liability falls on HN, as they are the merchant who sold the unit.

As I said, know your consumer rights and make it explicitly clear to the merchant what the acceptable outcomes are. If unsure, call the OFT, they were very helpful. Be stern, but don't get angry. Stand your ground, and be prepared to go to QCAT (or equivalent).

Hopefully this info. can help others in a similar situation. At the risk of taking this thread too far OT, I wont say any more on the matter. If anyone wants any chat further about it, please send me a PM.

Edited by UberSteve

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Maybe I missed something in my research and discussions with the OFT. Could you send me a link to material that states these manufacturer/merchant rights? (I don't mean to sound like an arse, but I am genuinely interested to fully understand the rights/liabilities of merchants/manufactures, as no doubt will need this understanding again one day) :/

HN (the merchant) could have offered those outcome options, yes, but it's certainly not their right to only offer those outcomes.

See When goods or services do not meet a consumer guarantee.

The extended wty broker, on the other hand, is bound by their own terms and conditions.

Lets face it, it's a pretty poor situation when a manufacturer can't supply spare parts for an item that was current ~6 months ago (and we're not talking a cheap POS TV here). However, the rep. from Panasonic did say if the extended warranty was with them, I would have received a 65VT30 straight up, no problems.

Anyhow, in this situation, the onus was on the extended wty broker, who's terms clearly state that if the product cannot be repaired, or replaced with an equivalent model, then a full refund would be issued. The acceptable outcomes were 1) Repair the original unit, 2) Refund, 3) Replace with 65VT30. As it turns out, they were able to source a 65VT30 from Panasonic for less than what was paid for the 58VT20.

In saying all that, even without extended warranty (which is really just meant to be a "trouble free" wty), consumers are protected by Consumer Guarantee Law. This is where the liability falls on HN, as they are the merchant who sold the unit.

As I said, know your consumer rights and make it explicitly clear to the merchant what the acceptable outcomes are. If unsure, call the OFT, they were very helpful. Be stern, but don't get angry. Stand your ground, and be prepared to go to QCAT (or equivalent).

Hopefully this info. can help others in a similar situation. At the risk of taking this thread too far OT, I wont say any more on the matter. If anyone wants any chat further about it, please send me a PM.

These consumer laws are all about getting votes and a government beaurocracy justifying their jobs.

The consumer deserves protection, yes, but the laws are very unfair to merchants. Remember retailers are resellers of products they do not r&d, they do not make and they can not generally repair.

So you buy a tv for $4k. Four years later it breaks down with a major fault. And almost with no rights of their own, the retailer must give the consumer a refund of the full purchase price, four years down the track when a better, more featured advanced tv will be most likely less than 50% of the purchase price.

Great. I want a tv that will break down, so every few years, I can get a new better model, and pocket back a refund of 50% of my initial purchase price. It's like reverse rental. The retailer pays me to use their products for a few years.

These new laws are not very fair, to be realistic, they make no concession for age, or how much a product has been used before giving a consumer the right to a full refund, with almost no limitation on time.

Love retailers, or not, they are doing it tough. Remember that retailers need to make money, and do not need more roadblocks put in their way like these ridiculous laws. They need to, make money, which in turn allows them to provide jobs, jobs in many circumstances to you young people starting out in their life of work. Providing jobs to people who will in turn pay tax, which is in turn used to provide us with the lifestyle we all enjoy in Australia. A safe country, with free medical care, with good schools, where kids are not being shot every day, ect ect ect ect.

Everything comes at a cost people. These laws will apply to our home grown Australian businesses, that provide jobs to you and your families, or one day your children. These laws will cost our Australian retailers money and profits

Remember JB, hn, dse, retravisioin. These are australian companies, making australian profits, employing Australians. Love me or hate em, these big retailers provide jobs to tens of thousands of Australians

These laws do not cost the Japanese, Chinese, Korean manufacturers a dime, cos those guys are not the ones that we scream at for the refund or replacement - we make the retailer wear it. Local Australian companies. Asian manufacturers are probably laughing at us, cos we are so stupid as a nation that we punish our own in this way while the Asian manufacturer gets away with paying nothing

The laws should be against the organization who made the product. Not those who real it. Those who make it should be held liable for faults

So then we loose our Aussie retail businesses. Also in part cos the media tells everyone to go online and buy cheaper from overseas.

Then what good are the laws when everyone we buy from, amazon, Nordstrom, ect ect, are all based overseas and beyond the reach of our fabulous consumer laws. Gues what mr smart consumer, for buying overseas, saving yourself 10% gst and a few bucks, Your lovely new tv or camera just broke, u can't talk to anyone, and can't get a reply from the email you sent to your online retailer based in Indonesia that you emailed through their "contact us" link on their web page, and the oft can't help u and ell u to go away cos, you bought overseas, and the laws don't apply someone in Indonesia. Well, they sorta do, but how you gonna enforce it or make em pay ??

So we kill our retailers with stupidly unfair laws which hurt them ( great for the consumer, stupid for business), people loose jobs, living standards drop, government gets less taxation revenue, we all go buy online from overseas retailers, more money leaves the country, hardly anyone pays gst on what they buy, more lost taxation revenue, and before u know, we are no longer AUSTRALIA but a state of china or Korea.

Gee we Aussies are smart.

But no one will care cos we are all in it for ourselves, and a cheap tv, iPod, camera, pair of shoes, whatever it is, and we are all in it for today only.

And then we will tax oxygen, because when we exhale we exhale co2.

Rant concluded

Ps not aimed at anyone on this thread - don't take it personal - but think about it

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The ST does not have 10 point RGB adjustment and it even says so on the "Lab Measurements" page. The 10 RGB settings mentioned on the "Settings" page for the ST are there in error, notice that they are identical the the VT, that cant be right.

Even without 10 point RGB -Gamma adjustment and no CMS the ST betters the GTs performance and even the VTs without custom adjustment, with service menu adjustment performance can be further improved.

For those with no intention to get their TV calibrated (calibration requires measurement not using settings you get off the net) there seems little point in anything above the ST.

Just got a ST60A - unsure as to the best way to calibrate. I've seen d-nice's method/settings but not sure whether to follow this as he says its specifically for the north american model (which has custom mode).

What do people recommend to -

- 'break-in' the tv (even needed?)

- calibrate to optimal settings

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Break in is not required.

Calibration is not possible without a reliable colour meter and software.

The basic TV settings can be adjusted by eye without tools and are dependant on ambient lighting and personal preference, start with the known most accurate mode and tweak to taste from there.

Adjust the contrast control to set how bright to picture is, dont set it higher than necessary for the viewing environmnet.

To adjust the brightness control display a move with black bars, adjust the brightness control up until the black bars go grey then adjust down one step at a time until the black bars just stop getting any darker and no more.

Adjust the colour control so that colour looks natural, not over or under saturated, this will require an average over many sources.

The sharpness control on most TV's is set too high, be very conservative with sharpness settings or you will get a harsh digital looking image with accentuated compression artefacts.

Do not adjust the tint or RGB colour controls unless you have a good reason and preferably a colour meter.

Edited by Owen

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Break in is not required.

Calibration is not possible without a reliable colour meter and software.

...

Thanks Owen - will give it a go.

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Couple of settings I am not sure about -

- Film Cadence Detection - should this be turned on or off? Not sure what exactly it does. Should I have it on/off for FTA material vs bluray/1080p material?

- Resolution Enhancer - same as above

I've also turned off - intelligent frame creation, 16x9 overscan, vivid color, eco-mode and p-nr.

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Film Cadence Detection is normally for US 60Hz interlaced TV, it should not be needed for 50Hz TV and is not relevant to progressive sources like Bluray movies provided the player is set to 24p output and not 1080i 60Hz. It should be ok to leave this function on and let the TV work out what to do.

As for Resolution Enhancer, its probably better turned off but feel free to experiment with it.

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Thanks Owen - another question - the ST30A has 3 colour balance settings (cool, normal and warm). The US guys recommend using warm2 in custom mode. Since the ST30A doesn't have the custom mode - is warm the recommended setting?

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Break in is not required.

Calibration is not possible without a reliable colour meter and software.

The basic TV settings can be adjusted by eye without tools and are dependant on ambient lighting and personal preference, start with the known most accurate mode and tweak to taste from there.

Adjust the contrast control to set how bright to picture is, dont set it higher than necessary for the viewing environmnet.

To adjust the brightness control display a move with black bars, adjust the brightness control up until the black bars go grey then adjust down one step at a time until the black bars just stop getting any darker and no more.

Adjust the colour control so that colour looks natural, not over or under saturated, this will require an average over many sources.

The sharpness control on most TV's is set too high, be very conservative with sharpness settings or you will get a harsh digital looking image with accentuated compression artefacts.

Do not adjust the tint or RGB colour controls unless you have a good reason and preferably a colour meter.

These are the key rules of thumb for adjusting the consumer picture settings I tell friends and family (and some bar staff, who allow me to improve their venue's flatscreen display image quality and/or aspect ratios). I've recently purchased a 55-inch VT30A and followed the exact same steps for tweaking this new display as I learned back in the laserdisc era.

The VT30 has the additional calibration settings, but I have not touched them, not just because I don't have the training or software (which I don't) but also because nothing looks wrong to me (so far), so no need to touch them. By default, these settings are not accessible via the standard picture menu.

As for colour temperature, NORMAL seems like a good setting unless you have a preference for a sepia tone look or a blue-ish James Cameron look. Warm or cool usually makes images look less natural. A suggestion is to watch a B&W movie and see how you like or dislike each setting.

Edited by Bosch

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Film Cadence Detection is normally for US 60Hz interlaced TV, it should not be needed for 50Hz TV and is not relevant to progressive sources like Bluray movies provided the player is set to 24p output and not 1080i 60Hz. It should be ok to leave this function on and let the TV work out what to do.

As for Resolution Enhancer, its probably better turned off but feel free to experiment with it.

According to the VT30 manual, resolution enhancer enables image processing for standard definition video (DVD and most TV channels) that may improve the look for SD content. From the AV Forum reviews: 'There's a "Resolution Enhancer" control, which applies controlled high frequency sharpening, designed to increase the perceived detail of SD content (the effect is fairly subtle).' and ' There is also the Resolution Enhancer control which is essentially another sharpness control and is best left off'. But also from another site: 'The set’s ‘resolution enhancer’ also does a good job of upscaling standard-definition TV, adding in extra sharpness without making pictures look noisy.'

I have it turned off, since I'm only concerned (i.e. critical) about 1080p Blu-ray content. Ditto Film Cadance Detection, and just about every other picture processing mode except for 24p on Blu-ray the player.

I'll also add that I didn't like the THX preset picture settings.

Edited by Bosch

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Thanks Owen - another question - the ST30A has 3 colour balance settings (cool, normal and warm). The US guys recommend using warm2 in custom mode. Since the ST30A doesn't have the custom mode - is warm the recommended setting?

Definitely Warm, anything else is way off for colour.

Its normal for most people to find the video standard 6400k colour temperature (or close to it) a little odd as they have spent their lives looking at TV's and PC monitors with a very blue heavy colour balance.

Unfortunately 6400k makes small red-green balance errors quite noticeable, the extra blue that people are used to helps hide these errors. When colour is truly accurate to the 6400k standard it does look natural and tends to have more intensity.

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According to the VT30 manual, resolution enhancer enables image processing for standard definition video (DVD and most TV channels) that may improve the look for SD content. From the AV Forum reviews: 'There's a "Resolution Enhancer" control, which applies controlled high frequency sharpening, designed to increase the perceived detail of SD content (the effect is fairly subtle).' and ' There is also the Resolution Enhancer control which is essentially another sharpness control and is best left off'. But also from another site: 'The set’s ‘resolution enhancer’ also does a good job of upscaling standard-definition TV, adding in extra sharpness without making pictures look noisy.'

I have it turned off, since I'm only concerned (i.e. critical) about 1080p Blu-ray content. Ditto Film Cadance Detection, and just about every other picture processing mode except for 24p on Blu-ray the player.

I'll also add that I didn't like the THX preset picture settings.

Resolution Enhancer is a form of sharpening and sharpening is problematic with SD as it tends to accentuate compression artefacts.

THX mode on the VT is quite accurate, its often the reason people pay extra for the VT. Was it your intention to use THX when you chose the TV?

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Resolution Enhancer is a form of sharpening and sharpening is problematic with SD as it tends to accentuate compression artefacts.

THX mode on the VT is quite accurate, its often the reason people pay extra for the VT. Was it your intention to use THX when you chose the TV?

Based on the few days that I have had my 65VT30, I would concur that THX seems to be the most accurate mode out of the box.

On the flip side, Dynamic is a shocker and Normal is not much better IMO.

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THX seem's to give a horrible yellow sheen to everything.

I know the last couple of issues of Sound and Image mag have also made mention of this in their reviews.

If this is accurate, no thanks!!!

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THX seem's to give a horrible yellow sheen to everything.

I know the last couple of issues of Sound and Image mag have also made mention of this in their reviews.

If this is accurate, no thanks!!!

With respect, have you ever compared the out of the box picture quality of any VT30 model for the different pre-set modes?

(BTW, there's no apostrophe in seems)

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THX seem's to give a horrible yellow sheen to everything.

I know the last couple of issues of Sound and Image mag have also made mention of this in their reviews.

If this is accurate, no thanks!!!

No yellow sheen on a friends 55VT that I was watching before Christmas, THX was spot on.

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With respect,

(BTW, there's no apostrophe in seems)

Yes I have, and thanks for the grammar correction.

(Though I always find it amusing when someone corrects another for a grammar error, using a slang abbreviation in the correction :huh: .)

With respect I still think that THX gives a yellow sheen.

This is what I see. I have also noticed it mentioned in a number of professional reviews as well.

Each to their own.

Edited by wilsact

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Yes I have, and thanks for the grammar correction.

(Though I always find it amusing when someone corrects another for a grammar error, using a slang abbreviation in the correction :huh: .)

With respect I still think that THX gives a yellow sheen.

This is what I see. I have also noticed it mentioned in a number of professional reviews as well.

Each to their own.

I suppose we all see what we see, but I agree. Both my gt30s had a horrible green (/yellow) push. Atrocious to my eyes in thx mode. This was confirmed by an ISF calibrator

B

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What's the feeling on running the "break-in" slides on new plasma's? I'm trying to decide whether it's worth doing or not when my 65VT30 arrives. From what i've read, it sounds debatable whether it improves PQ or not, but I don't believe there is any risk in doing it. The theory sounds plausible. ie. the phosphors "age or stabilise" over the first 100 hours and by running slides, the whole screen ages equally.

In other news, my screen was due to be delivered today, but TNT have "misplaced it"!? :wacko: How the hell do they misplace an huge 80KG box!? They are now "investigating" where it might be, this better not drag on....

-Steve

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THX is just a preset its never spot on and needs fine tuning, however is is MUCH closer than any other mode with errors of under 10%. Other modes with be more like 20 to 30% off.

The green/yellow look means green gain is a click or two high or red gain a click or two low, with 6400k even small red green balance errors become noticeable.

On older Panasonic's THX mode did not allow colour temperature adjustment which is a big problem as it is never spot on.

If the VT30 does not allow fine tuning of THX colour its pretty much useless, you have to use calibration equipment to set up one of the other modes that does allow full colour adjustment. If you have to go to that effort you may as well buy the ST and save the cash.

Edited by Owen

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What's the feeling on running the "break-in" slides on new plasma's? I'm trying to decide whether it's worth doing or not when my 65VT30 arrives. From what i've read, it sounds debatable whether it improves PQ or not, but I don't believe there is any risk in doing it. The theory sounds plausible. ie. the phosphors "age or stabilise" over the first 100 hours and by running slides, the whole screen ages equally.

Dont bother, break in slides just age the phosphor pixels quicker, the end result is the same if you use them or not.

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