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JSmith

Oled

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FWIW I'm glad OLED appears to be living up to its promise. If there haven't been any major flaws exposed yet then I think its a fair bet that its the next link in the home theatre food chain.

I agree.

The only question in my mind is will it make the leap to becoming a desirable middle class possession or will it remain a notch above most people's price point?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Yup, likely not for some time...

Read the link I posted about why they're curved... I think it's a structural issue, however Samsung and LG claim it's more of a marketing tool.

JSmith :ninja:

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Ah ok, so it's only good if you've seen one...? :wacko:

Did you read the test results and reviews? There is alot more discussed than simply blacks... :lol:

Yes, I read everything you linked and didn't see anything that would suggest OLED outperforms LCD and Plasma in any area other than black level. Motion performance is apparently ordinary and there is still the lingering issue of burn in and pixel life for those who like a bright picture.

In the end it will come down to personal preference, rather than what some internet reviewer likes or dislikes. I've seen reviewers get worked up about products that I thought where nothing special so I'll wait until I can evaluate available production products before I declare OLED the best thing since sliced bread.

I know I come off as negative, but I really hope OLED is as good as promised and is a sales success. But being a great product does no guarantee sales or profitability, good products and technologies have come and gone before.

What's going on with Sony-Panasonic, don't they have 4k OLED TV's under development? It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

Edited by Owen

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This should dispell any thoughts about oled yields or strength for the curve ; here's some nice spin for a conventional lcd ; maybe its a 3d substitute :no:

The unique curved screen of the Sony KDL-65S990A creates a new way for viewers to experience their favorite movies, sporting events, television programming and video games. The edge-to-edge curved construction is engineered to provide a greater sense of the picture’s depth of feel, and allows for a wider viewing angle so there is not a bad seat in the house.

http://reviews.cnet....7-35827222.html

Coming soon big oled 4k with this 'proof of concept '

http://reviews.cnet....-inch-behemoth/

Edited by cwt

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I have used curved projection screens before and found that any benefit only resides with very large screens, at least 100" and above and the curve should only be slight. The benefit was a slightly brighter screen and an image that appeared 'not flat ' but with slightly enhanced depth.

This could be because of improved contrast at the 'sweet spot ' when veiwing the screen, it also focused the sound for the centre channel below the screen. Yes there is a 'sweet spot' and it is the curve that dictates how narrow that will be.

So a very big screen and a gentle curve is what is needed otherwise stay with a flat screen.

C.M

Edited by Tweet

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I have used curved projection screens before and found that any benefit only resides with very large screens, at least 100" and above and the curve should only be slight. The benefit was a slightly brighter screen and an image that appeared 'not flat ' but with slightly enhanced depth.

This could be because of improved contrast at the 'sweet spot ' when veiwing the screen, it also focused the sound for the centre channel below the screen. Yes there is a 'sweet spot' and it is the curve that dictates how narrow that will be.

So a very big screen and a gentle curve is what is needed otherwise stay with a flat screen.

C.M

Its interesting that some oleds have a bigger curve than say the sony led C.M.It will be interesting to see how the led ones handle screen uniformity and artifacts-

especially any edge lit ones :question: What goes around comes around ;good to see the Kloss novabeam technology with curved screen sort of making a comeback :D

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LG unveils world’s largest Ultra HD Oled TV

"LG Electronics marked another milestone by unveiling the world’s largest Ultra High Definition (or ULTRA HD ) OLED TV at IFA, the largest consumer electronics and appliance trade show in Europe. LG’s 77-inch ULTRA HD CURVED OLED TV follows in the footsteps of the company’s 55-inch CURVED OLED TV, which was introduced to the public just eight months ago at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas."

http://www.theage.co...0919-2u09g.html

JSmith :ninja:

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Still don't understand how the curve is meant to improve the viewing angle. Leaving aside the fact that modern TVs have a pretty wide angle anyway, if you sit further around to the left of the screen (for example) then you get a better view of the right side but the left side is curved away from you...?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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Still don't understand how the curve is meant to improve the viewing angle. Leaving aside the fact that modern TVs have a pretty wide angle anyway, if you sit further around to the left of the screen (for example) then you get a better view of the right side but the left side is curved away from you...?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Yes I questioned that comment in the article too...

Apparently;

"Samsung says it’s because the OLED technology offers wider viewing angles than LED or plasma."

http://www.whathifi....-oled-tv-review

JSmith :ninja:

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Curved screen mentioned here.

Seven problems with current OLED televisions: http://reviews.cnet....ed-televisions/

Few problems though with this outdated article;

In relation to burn in, all reviews of OLED panels have noted when displaying a full white screen that after a few minutes the light output dims. An automatic measure to prevent any burn in, so unless it is to be used for a static image, the point isn't relevant.

Limited to 55", not 4K? I just posted a link to a 77" UHD OLED panel...

http://www.dtvforum....00#entry1915638

It's already been made clear in other publications that the blue LED in Samsung's RGBOLED panels is twice the size of the other pixels to counter the fact that it degrades faster than the other colours.

IMO the author is nitpicking... no one said it was a perfect display, just the best they have ever seen so far.

JSmith :ninja:

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Umm isn't the article from August 2013? Outdated?

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Umm isn't the article from August 2013? Outdated?

:lol:

Well yeah, today is the 23/9... things move fast with new tech. :P

JSmith :ninja:

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Umm isn't the article from August 2013? Outdated?
I agree. Technology moves fast but I think 30 days is probably still 'recent' :)

Reading it does suggest some valid points against rapid mainstream take up:

1) I get the feeling the curve is being sold as good because they don't know how to make a flat one? What's the bet that once flat ones become available the curved ones will become much less desirable/unavailable?

2) The expense is an obvious barrier.

3) Size options? We'll in that respect the article is outdated :)

4) Not 4K? I'd agree with the manufacturer's - 4K is pretty useless on 55" screens

5) The other three do seem persnickity and based on the newness of the tech and a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach (perhaps overly cautious, although millions of us spent $1000's on SD plasma's with huge burn in issues before they addressed the tech, so perhaps not :))

But if the author is simply voicing potential concerns then obviously if they're being rapidly addressed or dismissed then perhaps price will soon become the only barrier to mainstream takeup

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload

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Few problems though with this outdated article;

In relation to burn in, all reviews of OLED panels have noted when displaying a full white screen that after a few minutes the light output dims. An automatic measure to prevent any burn in, so unless it is to be used for a static image, the point isn't relevant.

Dimming the whole panel is an extreme measure to protect against burn it or other damage, and I'm sure it would not be done unless there is a real risk to the panel.

Plasma manufacturers never felt it nesesary to go to such measures so its not unreasonable to come to the conclusion that OLED has real burn it issues.

It's already been made clear in other publications that the blue LED in Samsung's RGBOLED panels is twice the size of the other pixels to counter the fact that it degrades faster than the other colours.

IMO the author is nitpicking... no one said it was a perfect display, just the best they have ever seen so far.

JSmith :ninja:

Using a double size blue sub pixel significantly degrades the fill factor of the panel. Fill factor has been one of my major concerns about OLED technology, it wont affect most people who dont sit close enough to the screen for it to be an issue, but for my use it is potentially a deciding factor in panel purchase.

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Plasma manufacturers never felt it necessary to go to such measures so its not unreasonable to come to the conclusion that OLED has real burn it issues.

No, they just let numerous early gen. consumers stuff their own panels by burning them in themselves... :rolleyes:

I believe all plasma panels employ ABL systems which relate to power usage... also assisting with burn in, IR and longevity.

Using a double size blue sub pixel significantly degrades the fill factor of the panel. Fill factor has been one of my major concerns about OLED technology, it wont affect most people who don't sit close enough to the screen for it to be an issue, but for my use it is potentially a deciding factor in panel purchase.

Gees mate, at this rate you'll be stuck on that SXRD for some time... ;)

JSmith :ninja:

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Few problems though with this outdated article;

In relation to burn in, all reviews of OLED panels have noted when displaying a full white screen that after a few minutes the light output dims. An automatic measure to prevent any burn in, so unless it is to be used for a static image, the point isn't relevant.

JSmith :ninja:

Would this help with something like the ridiculous free to air channel logos such as the solid pink ones used by gem and go in regional areas?

I know these normally only cause image retention (not burn in), but have noticed it can take weeks to fade even on current model plasma's. The cnet link photos appear to show clear image retention on the OLED screens seen.

Edited by wilsact

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I know these normally only cause image retention (not burn in), but have noticed it can take weeks to fade even on current model plasma's.

Yes I suppose temporary IR may be a potential issue, however comments seem to indicate that burn in is less of an issue, so IR should be less so too... generally advertisement breaks are more than enough to counter any burn in or IR.

http://www.technewsw...tory/78726.html

'Although there have been reports of OLED screens experiencing "burn-in" -- where the ghost of past images remain on a screen -- Consumer Reports did not find that in its tests. "We found that it was less susceptible to burn-in than plasma," Willcox said.'

JSmith :ninja:

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generally advertisement breaks are more than enough to counter any burn in or IR.
At least the networks are doing their bit to protect consumer's valuable equipment :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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No, they just let numerous early gen. consumers stuff their own panels by burning them in themselves... :rolleyes:

I believe all plasma panels employ ABL systems which relate to power usage... also assisting with burn in, IR and longevity.

The power limiting systems used to varying degrees on Plasma TV's is not there for burn in protection, its there to limit demand in the power supply and likely to limit maximum heat load on the panel.

Since OLED uses relatively little power its not likely the dimming system is there for power supply reasons, more likely its for overheating protection for the panel and or some degree burn it protection.

Burn in is simply uneven aging of the pixels, the harder you drive them the quicker they loose light output. A small area of constantly on content, like a channel logo, or small areas of very bright content, like bright text on a black background, are much more likely to cause visible burn in than a full bright screen.

The red green and blue phosphor sub pixels of Plasma all age at a similar rate so colour stays relatively constant over time, while with OLED blue ages much faster then red or green so colour accuracy will drift off as the panel ages. This also means burn in will look quite different on OLED compared to plasma as blue will burn in much faster than red or green. The reduced output of blue in the burned area will not be very obvious unless severe and will be visible as a colour shift not a dark shadow as with Plasma. On a lot of video content this will likely go unnoticed, but on areas of flat colour, gray or white it will be visible.

Image retention is a different issue as its not permanent like burn in. Plasma can suffer from it because when heavily driven the phosphor pixels will loose output resulting in image retention. However, phosphor tends to recover after a while so the retained image fades away over time. Its my understanding that LED pixels do not recover, once they have lost output due to use they stay that way and only degrade more over time. Therefor "image retention" should not be possible with OLED, we should only ever get burn in that is permanent.

Gees mate, at this rate you'll be stuck on that SXRD for some time... ;)

JSmith :ninja:

That could well be, still waiting for a suitable replacement to become available. With affordable Plasmas limited to 65" and LCD totally unacceptable its not looking at all promising.

Maybe in 2 or 3 years OLED will will offer something suitable in 70" plus. A 100" plus 4k unit would be my ideal.

Edited by Owen

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The power limiting systems used to varying degrees on Plasma TV's is not there for burn in protection, its there to limit demand in the power supply and likely to limit maximum heat load on the panel.

I knew you'd pick me on that point... was hoping for a pass on that one as I knew I had drawn a long bow, hence the word "assisting". ;)

A 100" plus 4k unit would be my ideal.

Sounds good... I don't think you'll have to wait so long for that. :)

JSmith :ninja:

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Harvey Norman Chadstone has an LG and a Sumsung OLED

picture set up looks fantastic to me

not sure what format was showing as could not find someone to ask

price was $10900 and $11900

Edited by ger

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Harvey Norman Chadstone has an LG and a Sumsung OLED

picture set up looks fantastic to me

not sure what format was showing as could not find someone to ask

price was $10900 and $11900

Good on ya... Nothing in Perth yet AFAIK (Wife was looking for a hand blender so I sneaked a peek)..

Are they showing cartoons, or movies?

All things considered, looking way back to the first plasma (which wasn't really that long ago), $10k is a pretty fair price...

So who's getting one? :w00t:

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So who's getting one? :w00t:

I will... if you buy it for me. :P

JSmith :ninja:

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I will... if you buy it for me. :P

JSmith :ninja:

Not unless you're my wife... :D

Speaking of the Mrs, unless she wants one, I don't think i'd be getting one now TBH.. They left it too late for me thankfully.. I hardly use my HT any more :pinch: .. Did they even show case OLED during the last hifi show? I don't think they did.

Somebody have to talk up OLED to make me interested, somebody like Owen? ^_^

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