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:lol:.... seems that way. I'm plenty interested in anything that will do the job better than whats currently available, but I cant get worked up over products that are still vapour ware.

Indeed. Somebody buy the first OLED here.. All looks at jsmith :wub::)

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My C7 from JB came in a small private courier van but was upright and the delivery guy asked me to check the “tilt sensors” attached to the box to confirm that it had not been laid on one side or angl

Not many people will highlight this in there OLED comparisons but the LG has the best operating system of any TV on the market and not by a small margin but a country mile.The PQ difference between th

You are not adding a lot to the discussion qwertyqaz.

Not at $9000 - $10000 mate... ;)

Don't be too quick to judge.. :P Maybe when you see the IQ you couldn't resist... $9000 is just the cost of 3 root canals :hmm:... Given a choice what would a hobbyist do? :pinch:

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You skipped over the issue of size/performance to price ratio.

Size/performance is something that matters to you and me... Alot of people (especially some men's wives) can be rather fickle about these things. As you know this is why the thin and more expensive edge LED panels sell... they look good. OLED panels will look good, be thinner and thus will sell... even more so once cheaper.

Do you really think OLED will "take over" in three years? They will have barely entered the market by then and market share will be tiny. It took over 20 years for LCD and Plasma to get to where they are now.

Nah mate, more like 5 - 10... where'd three come from in the first place...? :huh:

BTW OLED will be amazing not just for blacks, but for overall colour reproduction and motion... these are things people will be able to see, especially once drawn to them by sales persons.

Anyway, at this point this is all just opinion and speculation.

The technology itself I believe is very interesting on a technical level and the panels will be amazing IMO... something I personally am looking forward to, as I believe many others are here too.

JSmith :ninja:

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This is how a reputable industry analysis sees it. In this period it as Owen sees it LCD (LED) is the huge market - 250 million in 2016

PDP is almost gone as are CCFL LCD

DisplaySearch_Forecast_for_OLED_TV_and_4Kx2K_LCD_TV_130103.PNG

The premium predictions likely look like this. 7 million in 2016:

DisplaySearch_TV_Shipment_Growth_by_Technology_130103.png

Source:

http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rde/xchg/displaysearch/hs.xsl/index.asp

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This is how a reputable industry analysis sees it. In this period it as Owen sees it LCD (LED) is the huge market - 250 million in 2016

PDP is almost gone as are CCFL LCD

Reputable...? Owen says we need to take that kind of information with a grain of salt... hmmm.

There's many other predictions that vary and they are longer term forecasts such as ten years... that only covers the next 3 years and we all know that in that time OLED will have barely settled into the market.

JSmith :ninja:

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Size/performance is something that matters to you and me... Alot of people (especially some men's wives) can be rather fickle about these things. As you know this is why the thin and more expensive edge LED panels sell... they look good. OLED panels will look good, be thinner and thus will sell... even more so once cheaper.

Nah mate, more like 5 - 10... where'd three come from in the first place...? :huh:

BTW OLED will be amazing not just for blacks, but for overall colour reproduction and motion... these are things people will be able to see, especially once drawn to them by sales persons.

Anyway, at this point this is all just opinion and speculation.

The technology itself I believe is very interesting on a technical level and the panels will be amazing IMO... something I personally am looking forward to, as I believe many others are here too.

JSmith :ninja:

The general sweet spot for TV pricing is around $2k to 3K not $9K to $10K when 60 inch OLED is priced at that sort of region then they will sell. Don't believe the hype so much. If you actually calibrated a current plasma or LED TV you know most of them can be calibrated close to industry reference level. Just go to the HDTV test UK site have a look at Samsung E8000 ( a mid market plasma) the calibrated accuracy on that set is almost spot on. OLED may improve on contrast ratio and gamma but I doubt it will achieve massive improvement in accuracy compare to what we have at the moment.

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Reputable...? Owen says we need to take that kind of information with a grain of salt... hmmm.

Ranked in the worlds top 25 research organisations, but you make your judgement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPD_Group

I don't doubt that as yields/volumes increase so will OLED market. These figures put it at less than 3% in 2016, so it will take time.

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The general sweet spot for TV pricing is around $2k to 3K not $9K to $10K when 60 inch OLED is priced at that sort of region then they will sell. Don't believe the hype so much. If you actually calibrated a current plasma or LED TV you know most of them can be calibrated close to industry reference level. Just go to the HDTV test UK site have a look at Samsung E8000 ( a mid market plasma) the calibrated accuracy on that set is almost spot on. OLED may improve on contrast ratio and gamma but I doubt it will achieve massive improvement in accuracy compare to what we have at the moment.

That still makes 2 in the pro OLED camp... Again all look at jsmith to get the first one on DTV... :D

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The general sweet spot for TV pricing is around $2k to 3K not $9K to $10K when 60 inch OLED is priced at that sort of region then they will sell.

Well aware of that, and in fact I agree... some of my previous comments assumed that we were talking in the future rather than upon release.

JSmith :ninja:

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That still makes 2 in the pro OLED camp... Again all look at jsmith to get the first one on DTV... :D

:lol:

Donations anyone? :P

... I would have the money actually, but couldn't justify it (even myself) at the release price.

JSmith :ninja:

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... I would have the money actually, but couldn't justify it (even myself) at the release price.

You don't want to buy it coz

1/ it's too expensive compared to other panels

2/ you know it will be outdated and replaced by something "newer" 1 year from the date you get it?

From the word justify I have to guess/assume/state it's the latter.. And that's where the manufacturers and pushers have shot themselves in the foot :angry:

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You don't want to buy it coz

No, I'd love to buy one... but,

1/ it's too expensive, period.

From the word justify I have to guess/assume/state it's the latter..

Nah mate, I just simply could not justify $10000 on a screen of any type (unless it was OLED wallpaper that covered my whole wall ;) ) but there will be others that can/will.

And that's where the manufacturers and pushers have shot themselves in the foot :angry:

Not really, no. We're just talking about me personally, not everyone... what about you?

JSmith :ninja:

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Nah mate, more like 5 - 10... where'd three come from in the first place...?

This ring a bell?

No one has said that it won't be 3 years before the OLED market takes over... who are you debating with?

I recon it will be more like 10 years before OLED “takes over” from LCD, and by then something else may have come along to make it obsolete.

BTW OLED will be amazing not just for blacks, but for overall colour reproduction and motion... these are things people will be able to see, especially once drawn to them by sales persons.

As has been stated current displays are capable of pretty much perfect colour and gamma accuracy, is OLED going to be better then perfect?

Unless exaggerated overblown colour is considered an improvement (and current displays also offer that), how is OLED going to be better? Differences will be very subtle, and what one man considers an improvement another may not.

As for motion, faster pixel response is not the advantage you might think for movies, it brings with it increased visibility of low frame rate jitter and pretty much demands the use of motion interpolation to smooth it out, which brings along its own set of issues. Improvements in motion performance will again be very much in the eyes of the beholder, not a walk over for OLED.

Edited by Owen
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I don't doubt that as yields/volumes increase so will OLED market. These figures put it at less than 3% in 2016, so it will take time.

That's been my message.

Edited by Owen
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This ring a bell?

Owen does this ring a bell?

...that would seem to be at least 3 years away at this stage in the game.

My next post and subsequent posts were in response to that... so you first raised the figure of three years. Read back carefully...

Please don't try to claim otherwise, it's undignified... ;)

JSmith :ninja:

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The "3 years" I mentioned was the time I expected it would take for OLED just to get established in the market. You came back with "3 years before the OLED market takes over" which seemed odd to me so I asked, “Do you really think OLED will "take over" in three years?”.

Did you mean to say "3 years before the OLED market takes off" because take over suggests market dominance and thats not going to happen in 3 years now is it?

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Another thing to consider is: How long will it be before the present crop of LCD/Plasma TV's need replacing (Or people think they do)?

If the size is about the same, and I suspect it will be, then most people will not bother to replace unless the TV packs up.

I can't see 4K making any difference as I don't think there will be anything broadcast

JB

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I think if x265 is all its cracked up to be and we will see 1080p broadcasts, 4k blurays etc then its chances will increase. Feeding current gen displays junk from FTA is not really making people want or need anything new, especially at OLED's current price tag.

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Oz TV is staying Mpeg2 for the foreseeable future.

1080p sources are all only 24fps and 1080p 24 requires LESS bandwidth than 1080i 50. As well as that, 1080p 24 or 25 cannot be used for sport as the frame rate is too low.

1080i 50 carries 1080p 24 source sped up to 25p without loss or problems as well as true 50Hz interlaces sources like sports which deinterlace to 50p.

The only replacement for 1080i 50 is 1080p 50 and not even Bluray supports that.

1080i 50 will remain the best overall format for broadcast TV for quite some time.

There is very little source that needs "4K", the vast majority of cinema film titles are certainly not up to 4k standards and TV's under 70" don't justify 4K either, although that wont stop manufacturers attempting to convince consumers that 4K is the next "must have" thing.

Edited by Owen
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I'm on the second. if it can last 5 to 10 then yeah. 1 is too short
What do you mean last? I've no doubt that a 60" OLED TV bought today will look just as awesome in ten years time. Just because something 'better' comes along next year doesn't mean we have to buy it?
Oz TV is staying Mpeg2 for the foreseeable future.
Agreed, although I do foresee some premium/niche H264 channels appearing before the end of the decade. Most existing equipment should be able to tune in with no issue.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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What do you mean last? I've no doubt that a 60" OLED TV bought today will look just as awesome in ten years time. Just because something 'better' comes along next year doesn't mean we have to buy it?

I want the technology to last at least 5 to 10 years. As for your second statement in bold, that is no longer the case since the advent of BD...

Most times you are forced to buy it. The reason is DRM and it's complications. The TV will look awesome in ten years time, but then again it's playing movies you have watched for eons..

There is a very high likelihood movies five years from now will not play with this new TV without additional boxes/convertors...

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The blue LED's in RGB OLED displays have a much shorter life than the red and green LED's, thats not a real problem for a mobile phone screen as a phone screen will not rack up enough hours to show the problem before the phone gets replaced, but a TV display gets far more use and is expected to last much longer.

LG are so concerned about this they are using white LED's as a work around, but that introduces another set of problems.

Time will tell if blue LED aging has been solved.

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There is a very high likelihood movies five years from now will not play with this new TV without additional boxes/convertors...

Understood. However I'd doubt the high[/]i likelihood of this occurring. Most movies are still realeased to DVD and probably even VCR in some places. So I'm pretty sure in ten years time Blurays will still be being released. Of course if you want the latest Extra-Super-Hyper-4D-Definition (v3.2) technology then yes, a new STB is likely to be needed.

I agree that the ability of manufacturers to force the migration of consumers for arbitrary reasons is disquieting. Software companies like Autodesk have been doing it for years, releasing a new version that adds almost nothing but means those that don't upgrade can't read the saved file format. I've long suspected that the security aspects of DRM have been let slide so that when its finally properly enforced almost all consumers will find they only have DRM equipment.

Guess time will tell.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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Understood. However I'd doubt the high[/]i likelihood of this occurring. Most movies are still realeased to DVD and probably even VCR in some places. So I'm pretty sure in ten years time Blurays will still be being released. Of course if you want the latest Extra-Super-Hyper-4D-Definition (v3.2) technology then yes, a new STB is likely to be needed.

VCR is probably long dead now.. :P Do you know VCD is still alive and well in some regions?? :P Try finding a good player that does that format, they're rare..... Anyway with BD, although the format itself may still be available 10 years from now, you may need a new connector for HDMI x.. And old movies may likely not play well on new players.

The idea of a CE always updated to get the latest DRM which really doesn't make my movie better just don't sit right with me. You don't see them that quick in fixing CE bugs that quickly...

Guess time will tell.

it might happen, it might not.. But just the thought of this will be hanging on many people's head (not just mine)... Something new you buy today will be outdated with no supporting equipment in a short few years, with next to zero resale value...

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'Cinavia' encoded Tv programs for all of us to enjoy in the future years ....maybe ? :wacko:

C.M

Perish the thought .That will require a cinavia chip to identify the audio watermark CM .The unlikely moment that happens sales of pvrs and chipped tv's will suffer for those who use''other means'' to get their tv fix :pirate:

As long as the panel ce's dont join the bda it should be fine . Theres ways around this too as media players have shown thankfully :sweat:

Edited by cwt
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I can think of more than a few panel makers that are part and parcel with the BDA ...... namely....all of them.

If the 'rot' sets in then I guess 'made in China' may not be so bad after all.

C.M

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If you don't buy movies you never have to worry about the media they are on going out of date or being unplayable on current equipment.

Pay per view is the way of the future.

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I can think of more than a few panel makers that are part and parcel with the BDA ...... namely....all of them.

If the 'rot' sets in then I guess 'made ibn China' may not be so bad afterall.

C.M

Oh noes not Kogan :pinch: Its good to know that its only sony bd discs that are cinavia infected so all the other studios will have to tamper with studio masters for a start .To be honest as it is an analog watermark I can only imagine it cant be sent over mpeg2 and it also requires AACS drm to identify its key . Thinking that would cripple any dnla/usb file playback thats common with todays panels :no:

I don't use a credit card either

Direct debit ? I find its insidious its so easy :nuke:

.

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The "3 years" I mentioned was the time I expected it would take for OLED just to get established in the market. You came back with "3 years before the OLED market takes over" which seemed odd to me so I asked, “Do you really think OLED will "take over" in three years?”.

I clearly meant when it starts... and cleared that up in my following post. Then you continued with this three year time frame...

JSmith :ninja:

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Pay per view is the way of the future.

Great... watch once or possibly three times, then the file is unusable.

I'd rather be able to retain my purchase for later viewing without having to crack the file.

JSmith :ninja:

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I clearly meant when it starts... and cleared that up in my following post. Then you continued with this three year time frame...

JSmith

I can only go on what you say not on what you meant to say.

Your clarification only came after I questioned what you meant and that should have been the end of it as we both seem to agree that it will be 3 years or more before OLED gets any traction in the TV market.

My original comment regarding “3 years” is below:

“The real issue for consumers is not if OLED will come to market but when good reliable products with a price to size/performance ratio that makes sense will be available to purchase, that would seem to be at least 3 years away at this stage in the game.”

This was an isolated comment and not in response to a post by you or anyone else. Unless you disagree what are you debating?

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Great... watch once or possibly three times, then the file is unusable.

I'd rather be able to retain my purchase for later viewing without having to crack the file.

JSmith :ninja:

Its not a purchase its a rental. Media companies dont want you to "own" a title and be able to do whatever you want with it, like it or not. They would much rather have ongoing control of their assets and the pay per view model best serves their interests.

Unfortunately for them I dont see how they will ever be able to eliminate piracy, where there is a will there is a way. Even if the media cant be copied directly the raw HDMI data stream sent to the display can be.

If the pay per view service is cheap enough most people will just use it and not jump through hoops to rip stuff off. Even at the prices charged by video stores rental works out far cheaper overall than buying disks as most tiles are not worth viewing more than once or twice.

Edited by Owen
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Its not a purchase its a rental. Media companies dont want you to "own" a title and be able to do whatever you want with it, like it or not. They would much rather have ongoing control of their assets and the pay per view model best serves their interests.

Whilst I do know what you mean... how's it a rental? I've purchased the film, thus I own a copy... would love to test that one in court.

Unfortunately for them I don't see how they will ever be able to eliminate piracy, where there is a will there is a way. Even if the media cant be copied directly the raw HDMI data stream sent to the display can be.

No they won't eliminate piracy... they'll just continue to make it hard for the honest consumer to view their media.

...most tiles are not worth viewing more than once or twice.

IYO... alot of people want to keep what they purchased and watch it again potentially years later. Why should I have to remember or retain a database of every movie I like and want to watch again?

Whilst I agree online systems will start to take over, there will also always be a market for hard copy media, particularly with collectors.

JSmith :ninja:

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Yes agreed need to be cashed up to become a first adopter. Remember the prices of plasmas when they first came out I think it was closer to 20K.

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