Radio On Vast

[Yeagarman]

I found this place while looking to see how I could access the radio that I was expecting with my VAST installation yesterday.

I found a lot of technical argument, but nothing about how to access the radio channel, save the hint that there was a 'radio button' and that it actually existed, despite claims otherwise.

On my remote there is a 'shift' function which in combination with the 'TV' button, allows me to access all the ABC radio channels and more. Pressing 'TV' again reverts me back to television. I haven't got commercial channels yet, though I do expect to, as I know that my neighbours do.

It is a massive step forward to be able to get this much radio in the house. Prior to this I could get scratchy ABC 720 during the day, and a little better at night, as well as unreliable ABC RN. I have ABC DIG playing in the background. Bloody wonderful! Who cares about the car? I get reasonable AM in the car right across the entire country, from the west to the east, including the nullarbor, and if it is a long drive I can use an mp3 player.

[nbound]

There are no commercial radio stations at this point in time on VAST.

Listing of VAST TV and radio stations:

http://en.wikipedia....lite_Television

The commercial stations you may have heard were either from a standard radio, or from the older Optus Aurora system that will be shut down by the end of the year (and does not have the digital multichannels for TV).

If you were refering to commercial TV, then yes you should (assuming blackspot/remote area), if you dont shortly, then contact your installer...

Edited March 7, 2013 by nbound

[Yeagarman]

I was referring to commercial TV, yes and I had not really taken notice of what radio was available, apart from the fact that it was there, on a recent VAST installation across the road (they have moved now).

To be honest, I couldn't care less about commercial TV or radio. I haven't listened to either in a decade. I live in this remoteness for a reason: such things don't appeal. Of course, if was 18 and living on a farm somewhere, then it might be different. :-)

[nbound]

Ah no worries... you definately arent alone in your views like that out of some of the more remote installs Ive done

[alanh]

The only remote area commercial radio licences are Spirit and RedFM, in WA,

http://www.thebreeze.com.au/

http://www.thebreeze.com.au/

In the East and Central

http://www.thebreeze.com.au/

http://www.thebreeze.com.au/

http://www.flowfm.com.au/

If you look you will find that these broadcasters have all their transmitters in the Remote Area TV zones, however there are also other broadcasters in this zone such as http://www.8ha.com.au/, and http://www.thesun.com.au/ there are similar examples in Mt Isa, Longreach and Roma.

So the VAST TV licence areas do not match the Remote Area Radio Licence areas.

More likely is the use of DRM30 to cover the remote areas without the need for a fixed satellite receiver. This will enable car reception over a wide area if HF is used.

Alanh

[DrP]

Please do not forget that radio stations that appear on VAST are not radio stations. They weren't radio stations on Aurora either. In fact, any audio programs you hear via VAST and Aurora are not radio programs. Radio programs on these platforms are carried via separate FM subcarriers. All satellite receivers are capable of demodulating FM subcarriers. Please contact VAST for information on how to tune these FM services on your UEC VAST receiver.

...... at least that's what alanh was telling the forum not that long ago. <cue the laugh track>

alanh. reality. Completely separate.

[alanh]

DrP,

VAST is receivable by any DVB-S2 satellite receiver provided that the decryption is satisfied. The DVB-S2 receiver will receive any audio stream on any DVB-S2 and DVB-S modulation provided it is not encrypted. Aurora is receivable on any DVB-S receiver if the signal is not encrypted.

http://www.lyngsat.com/Optus-D2.html illustrates how you can use DVB-S and transmit all radio programs on a single transponder. Encryption such as Irdeto 2 will prevent reception unless the viewer has the key.

There are no accompanying video signals. So Viewer Accessed Satellite Television service must contain video.

So from the government provides money called the Remote Area Radio Service to finance the transmission via satellite of all ABC services which are available.

SBS has its only pair of radio programs matrixed in the to their TV stream and as a result will not only be receiveable on satellite receivers but all terrestrial receivers.

Lastly you know as well as I do that Frequency Modulation or Amplitude Modulation is used in digital satellite transmission. These signals are all digitised audio signals produced by radio stations. If these radio stations are in Australia they have to conform to the ACMA rules including Licence Area Plans.

Lastly name all the Australian commercial radio audio feeds available in the Eastern/Central remote areas receivable on a DVB-S2 receiver including VAST and those receivable on a DVB-S receivers which can also receive Aurora signals.

Alan

Edited March 9, 2013 by alanh

[DrP]

Yes, let's not forget that all radio services on satellites are carried as FM subcarriers. They are not carried using DVB-s (or DVB-S2) and they do not appear as narrow band services (using any advanced form of modulation such as QPSK, if the did appear as narrow band, which they don't they would be FM subcarriers with analogue audio modulating the subcarrier) no do they appear in any standard DVB transport stream.

Not that any of it matters because no radio station is carried on any Optus satellite because Optus charges too much.*

That's what alanh told us. Now he's trying to back pedal as fast as he can go. Anyone surprised? I hope not.

alanh. Reality. Separate. Still.

The Big Book of alanh Facts

*edit to include yet another bit of alanh briiliance

Edited March 9, 2013 by DrP

[dbrmuz]

Yes, let's not forget that all radio services on satellites are carried as FM subcarriers. They are not carried using DVB-s (or DVB-S2) and they do not appear as narrow band services (using any advanced form of modulation such as QPSK, if the did appear as narrow band, which they don't they would be FM subcarriers with analogue audio modulating the subcarrier) no do they appear in any standard DVB transport stream.

Not that any of it matters because no radio station is carried on any Optus satellite because Optus charges too much.*

That's what alanh told us. Now he's trying to back pedal as fast as he can go. Anyone surprised? I hope not.

alanh. Reality. Separate. Still.

The Big Book of alanh Facts

*edit to include yet another bit of alanh briiliance

I'm flabbergasted!

[alanh]

So DrP,

You cannot produce any active radio stations to back up your claims

You are a load of hot air. Yes Subcarriers were used in the original satellite systems and yes they are data multiplexed in DVB-S and S2 systems. So where is your proof of Australian Commercial Radio Stations?

Who was the one telling us that VAST would never use DVB-S2 and MPEG -4 DrP. No admission ever that he claimed that it would continue on on the Aurora system of DVB-S and MPEG-2. He just chose to ignore the economic realities of satellite broadcasting costs.

Even Microsoft has dropped MPEG2 decoding from Microsoft Media Player you have to provide your own. This occured late last year.

Keep promoting ATSC SFNs and perhaps you may get a fourth US broadaster to use it in a single licence area. Real successful!!! As DVB-T systems and ISDB systems are using this system in their thousands.

Keep supporting old technology. If this forum was around in 1998 you would have said that we would never get digital TV because all receivers are analog or even back in the 70s' that FM radio would never take off or even back in the 1920s that radio was a fiction.

AlanH

Edited March 10, 2013 by alanh

[GoForMoe]

You are a load of hot air. Yes Subcarriers were used in the original satellite systems and yes they are data multiplexed in DVB-S and S2 systems. So where is your proof of Australian Commercial Radio Stations?

VAST doesn't have commercial radio on it. No one has ever claimed it does because it isn't true.

The simple fact is though, it could be included once a decision is made to do so - probably in the coming months before the closure of Aurora.

Radio on VAST is just another multiplexed audio stream, like the full compliment of ABC and SBS radio services on it currently.

Who was the one telling us that VAST would never use DVB-S2 and MPEG -4 DrP. No admission ever that he claimed that it would continue on on the Aurora system of DVB-S and MPEG-2. He just chose to ignore the economic realities of satellite broadcasting costs.

Quote the posts.

Even Microsoft has dropped MPEG2 decoding from Microsoft Media Player you have to provide your own. This occured late last year.

To reduce licensing costs, because despite being a standard, MPEG is patent encumbered and requires payment of royalties.

Keep promoting ATSC SFNs and perhaps you may get a fourth US broadaster to use it in a single licence area. Real successful!!! As DVB-T systems and ISDB systems are using this system in their thousands.

So your solution would be to replace every ATSC receiver overnight at high cost and no offsetting digital dividend just to put in SFNs which as I keep trying to tell you, are broadly irrelevant in the US market - as you don't have wide area broadcasters, you have small scale channels that cover cities and their surrounds, not states and regions like our system.

Highlighting SFNs all the time as an example of the supposed issues with ATSC at the very least shows a misunderstanding of the nature of the US broadcasting market.

Keep supporting old technology. If this forum was around in 1998 you would have said that we would never get digital TV because all receivers are analog or even back in the 70s' that FM radio would never take off or even back in the 1920s that radio was a fiction.

It is called justifying change. We could chop and change codecs and transmission systems every 5 years or so to keep using the latest technology.

The move to digital didn't happen for quality reasons, it happened because it allowed more channels to be packed closer together so the governments could sell off what is left for profit. If you change formats without a digital dividend you need a very compelling case

[DrP]

I see alanh is now in full 'cover it up mode' using any means possible.

Now he's imposing conditions on his silly statements about radio service on satellite. Apparently now he only meant that FM subcarriers were once used when he made his infamous statement about all radio services being carried by FM subcarriers. He also seems to have back flipped when it comes to radio services being muxed into bog standard DVB transport streams. alanh continually refining and repositioning his prior flawed statements? Anyone surprised? I sure hope not, its business as usual for alanh.

He's even had to roll out his favourite fall back of claiming I said certain things about VAST. I'm sure we all recall, with a smirk, alanh's last attempt at proving I said such things... Not only that he's had to lie, again, about what I said about Aurora. Unfortunately for dear old contradictory alanh Aurora is still MPEG-2 and will no doubt remain that way until the service ceases.... just like I suggested it would.

Perhaps its time for me to taunt list out alanh's long long list of failed MPEG-4 AVC terrestrial predictions. Nah. Everyone knows it already and is no doubt having a chuckle at his expense.

alanh. Reality. Moving even further apart. Fortunately for us!

Lastly, let's not forget The Big Book of alanh Facts on sale now!

Edited March 10, 2013 by DrP

[Guest Malich]

Keep promoting ATSC SFNs and perhaps you may get a fourth US broadaster to use it in a single licence area. Real successful!!!

Which reminds me - after saying...

... the ATSC SFN is so restricted no commercial station will use it.

... then having one pointed out to you, you were about to admit you were wrong. What happened to that?

[Guest Malich]

Even Microsoft has dropped MPEG2 decoding from Microsoft Media Player you have to provide your own. This occured late last year.

I know this is only prolonging Alan's derail, but...

While strictly correct, Alan's comment misrepresent things quite badly. There's only a few versions of Windows that came with an MPEG-2 decoder; namely, the ones with Windows Media Centre (not Windows Media Player*):

• XP Media Centre Edition.
  
• Vista Premium & Ultimate.
  
• Windows 7 Premium, Professional, Enterprise, & Ultimate.
  

It's also available as part of the Windows 8 Pro Media Centre Pack add-on - which was a free download until recently.

Basically, you always had to pay extra for it as part of a more expensive version; with Windows 8 it's an optional add-on.

(* By itself, Windows Media Player could interpret a DVD structure but lacked the codecs necessary to play DVDs. If you could play DVDs in WMP you either had Windows Media Centre installed, or some other 3rd-party source of codecs e.g. certain versions of PowerDVD, Nero, etc.)

[DrP]

I simply can't believe my eyes. alanh mispresenting the truth? He'd never do that!

[nbound]

Just like he'd never grasp at straws and bring the same old tired arguments into other threads where he has been shown to be a bit of a swan, yet again.

He wouldnt have to if he could argue the current one on its own merits, or accept himself being incorrect and slink back off into oblivion for a few hours/days.

Edited March 11, 2013 by nbound

[alanh]

There must be no Australian Commercial Radio stations on Aurora or or VAST otherwise one of the knockers would have posted it by now.

Nbound,

Which commercial radio stations are being closed down?

Malich,

Why don't you read the post

This occured late last year.

When was XP and Vista released?!!! ha, ha, ha.

There's only a few versions of Windows that came with an MPEG-2 decoder; namely, the ones with Windows Media Centre (not Windows Media Player*):

• XP Media Centre Edition.
  
• Vista Premium & Ultimate.
  
• Windows 7 Premium, Professional, Enterprise, & Ultimate.
  

You have to buy a new one to get a version which is after late last year!

DrP,

No commercial Australian radio on satellite, all Aurora receivers are being replaced by VAST receivers, ATSC SFN not worthwhile for the cost of a very small increase in coverage area where as in DVB systems it is hundreds of square kilometers.

That is just the start. DAB+ radio is selling will where it has been introduced. WiFi radio is still only a tiny proportion of radio listening. I cannot be bothered writing a book on your failed predictions it would take too long and its only audience is your other personalities.

Alanh

Edited March 11, 2013 by alanh

[nbound]

There must be no Australian Commercial Radio stations on Aurora or or VAST otherwise one of the knockers would have posted it by now.

Despite me clearly posting earlier there were no commercial stations on VAST

8HA was/is carried on Aurora

Red FM was/is carried on Aurora

Spirit may* have been too.

*Someone confirm plz

Nbound,

Which commercial radio stations are being closed down?

I said Optus Aurora was being closed down, what happens to the broadcasters who use the Aurora transponders is upto each of them and Optus.

DrP,

No commercial Australian radio on satellite, all Aurora receivers are being replaced by VAST receivers, ATSC SFN not worthwhile for the cost of a very small increase in coverage area where as in DVB systems it is hundreds of square kilometers.

That is just the start. DAB+ radio is selling will where it has been introduced. WiFi radio is still only a tiny proportion of radio listening. I cannot be bothered writing a book on your failed predictions it would take too long and its only audience is your other personalities.

Alanh

Just like he'd never grasp at straws and bring the same old tired arguments into other threads where he has been shown to be a bit of a swan, yet again.

He wouldnt have to if he could argue the current one on its own merits, or accept himself being incorrect and slink back off into oblivion for a few hours/days.

Swanning around again by the looks:

• Commercial radio
  
• VAST Transitions
  
• ATSC DTS Systems
  
• DAB Radio
  
• Internet Radio
  

Yep clearly all on the topic at hand. Definately not trying to derail the thread away from your failings.

Edited March 11, 2013 by nbound

[Guest Malich]

Malich,

Why don't you read the post[/Quote]

I'll read yours if you read mine:

While strictly correct, Alan's comment misrepresent things quite badly.

My point was this: MPEG-2 playback was always a paid extra available only with certain versions of Windows. From late last year until 31/1/13 it was a free add-on for certain versions of Windows (Win8 Pro). From earlier this year it's back to being a paid extra.

---

ATSC SFN not worthwhile for the cost of a very small increase in coverage area where as in DVB systems it is hundreds of square kilometers.

Which reminds me - after saying...

ATSC SFN is so restricted no commercial station will use it.

... then having one pointed out to you, you were about to admit you were wrong. What happened to that?

[GoForMoe]

I'll read yours if you read mine:

He read your post with the same skill he reads DCPs and TLAPs.

[DrP]

One day alanh will make it all the way to China.

[alanh]

So Malich, have you bought Windows 7 or Windows 8 this year?

What does it matter to you about ATSC SFN's you must be another name for DrP.

Alanh

[DrP]

Drawing attention to the fact that you are a clueless numpty may not be quite what you intended here, alanh, but none-the-less by bumping this thread this is precisely what you have done.

The real world. alanh's world. Fortunately for us they are completely totally and utterly separate.

[Guest Malich]

So Malich, have you bought Windows 7 or Windows 8 this year?

Relevance?*

(As it happens, no - I own Macs. But I use both Win 7 & 8 on an almost daily basis, have installed both as recently as last week, and regularly support both in a large networked environment. What's your level of experience with them?*)

What does it matter to you about ATSC SFN's

Why do they matter to you?* You're not a broadcast engineer, you have no ability to influence the FCC's policy, and Australia is highly unlikely to move to ATSC - but you're the one that keeps bringing up its alleged failures. Why?*

You're the one that runs around claiming (paraphrased, because I can't be bothered doing all the quoting, and Alan has made each claim so frequently in often totally unrelated threads that it's tedious to pick through them all and find exactly where each has been easily refuted):

• 'ATSC can't handle SFNs'
  

- then, when that is shown to be wrong,

• 'No broadcasters in the US use SFNs'
  

- then, when that is shown to be wrong,

• 'No commercial station uses it'
  

- then, when that is shown to be wrong,

• 'There are no ATSC SFNs comparable in size to Australian DVB-T SFNs'
  

- and, now that has been shown to be wrong, you're attempting to avoid answering my very simple question: When are you going to admit you were wrong about ATSC SFNs?**

you must be another name for DrP.

Ah, the ol' Alan Hughes fallback position - when faced with admitting you were wrong, and all attempts to weasel out of it fail, start making false accusations about other people.

You know I'm not DrP; the mods know I'm not DrP; I know I'm not DrP; DrP knows I'm not DrP; and MLXXX, nbound, and all the others you've also claimed over the years to be DrP are pretty sure I'm not DrP - so why do you keep making the same false accusation over and over again, whenever you've backed yourself into a corner and come face-to-face with having to admit you're wrong?*

(* I'm treating these as rhetorical questions, as although Alan always expects other people to answer questions from him he almost never answers questions directed to him...)

(** This question, however, requires an answer if Alan expects people to believe his oft-repeated claim of "I admit when I am wrong"...)

[DrP]

I am EVERYONE! Even alanh!

<lightning flashes and thunder booms>

Bwwwhaahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!