Jump to content

Ps50c7000 Ps58c7000 Ps63c7000 3d Ghosting / Crosstalk Issues


Recommended Posts

I find it very annoying and this comment is not only directed at Samsung (as other manufacturers are just as guilty) that testing firmware before they release to their loyal consumers isn't done with QC in mind.

I recall as a Topfield PVR owner the very poor FW updates we were getting where they would solve one issue and start a new problem.

I don't think it is a case of "fool's rushing in" but more a case of bona fide trusting consumers making the most basic assumption that when a company like Samsung , Sony

Pioneer etc etc release a fw update it is thoroughly tested. If people are having issues then it is the case of once bitten twice shy.

It is an unfortunate testament of our modus of operandi in today's world that jobs are rushed out and issues fixed later.

Therefore customer feedback becomes inherent in the process. The beta testing is actually "live" to the customer base.

It saves them money. "Why test it internally let the people tell us if anything is wrong."

Sadly that is reality and has nothing to do with being a fool.

Edited by CC Rider
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 470
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Argh, Topfield! I still have a Toppy 7000 PVR that I don't use much now, but yeah they've been one of the absolute worst with firmware. They really had no idea what they were doing. A gazillion bugs no matter what version. I updated a long time ago and had more critical problems so downgraded again and then gave up updating it again. I think in their case they released their boxes knowing full well there's a lot to fix up and just left it until later but there was so much to fix that they didn't know where they were!

As you say, we're really the guinea pigs aren't we.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Argh, Topfield! I still have a Toppy 7000 PVR that I don't use much now, but yeah they've been one of the absolute worst with firmware. They really had no idea what they were doing. A gazillion bugs no matter what version. I updated a long time ago and had more critical problems so downgraded again and then gave up updating it again. I think in their case they released their boxes knowing full well there's a lot to fix up and just left it until later but there was so much to fix that they didn't know where they were!

As you say, we're really the guinea pigs aren't we.

Must admit they were a lot better with the 7100 I own but many were returned back to the retailler. My mate at JB told me they really got so frustrated that they threatened

them that they would cease stocking them.

Alas guinea pigs we all are :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

thought i'd let everyone know i received an email from the guy in the uk who had his set replaced after they could not fix his 3d excessive crosstalk issues, which after receiving the new set the problems were not there. Unfortunately for him he told me he had not posted for a while but he is so annoyed as his same 3d crosstalk problems from the last set returned on his new set directly after upgrading to the latest firmware once again confirming that the firmware is the issue. Thanks for the PM marauderxp i will send off a report on what we have found and hope things get fixed in a hurry

Link to post
Share on other sites


Appreciate the info there. Was scratching my head a bit about how he didn't have it after set replacement, but I feel better knowing now turned out to be firmware lol.

If the stores always updated, I bet Samsung would've had a fix out by now. Can you imagine how much crap would be hitting the fan if all the display models had that issue after updating?

Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt. Im pretty sure that 9000 series LED i checked out at harvey norman had the new firmware because the crosstalk on that was insane. They had better hurry up before all models are shipped with the new firmware and samsungs name turns to shite

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll throw my two cents in and confirm what previous posters have stated.

Bought my 58 inch in early June and must say the 3D experience was hugely impressive. Received my 3D bluray player via redemption, took an eternity to get to me, played MvA and found it to be a great 3D experience. No ghosting and a pronounced 3D effect. I did notice that there was a slight strain when watching 3D, I emphasize slight strain. The strain was most definitely tolerable and I could quite easily watch a movie or sporting event in its entirety without any headaches, nausea etc, etc.

Now when I watch a sample viewing of MvA, or any 3D material for that matter, there is no strain whatsoever, however, there is ghosting and the 3D effect has been greatly diminished. It would be safe to assume that Samsung received a raft of complaints regarding strain, headaches, etc, etc and have attempted to mitigate aforementioned issues by tinkering with the 3D aspect. Why else would they change it?

I have the foxtel 3D channel and can confirm that the college basketball games foxtel air also suffer from ghosting.

Unfortunately, Samsung have failed on two counts. Firstly, they have greatly diminished the 3D experience, and secondly, they have introduced the dreaded ghosting into the equation. Not very happy with Samsung as they have essentially taken away a feature of the Tv.

Anyways, lets hope a raft of complaints pertaining to the diminished 3D effect motivates Samsung to do something about it.

Cheers

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll throw my two cents in and confirm what previous posters have stated.

Bought my 58 inch in early June and must say the 3D experience was hugely impressive. Received my 3D bluray player via redemption, took an eternity to get to me, played MvA and found it to be a great 3D experience. No ghosting and a pronounced 3D effect. I did notice that there was a slight strain when watching 3D, I emphasize slight strain. The strain was most definitely tolerable and I could quite easily watch a movie or sporting event in its entirety without any headaches, nausea etc, etc.

Now when I watch a sample viewing of MvA, or any 3D material for that matter, there is no strain whatsoever, however, there is ghosting and the 3D effect has been greatly diminished. It would be safe to assume that Samsung received a raft of complaints regarding strain, headaches, etc, etc and have attempted to mitigate aforementioned issues by tinkering with the 3D aspect. Why else would they change it?

That could possibly be a reason why they have played with it, I also remember the one thing thing that was always brought up with 3d was that the glasses made the picture much darker. Maybe they've tried to keep the alternating lenses open just that bit longer to let more light through hence brightening the picture but in the meantime it has left the alternate image linger just that bit too long making it visible for the other eye??

Probly a number of things they have tried to improve but did not test, just implemented and this is the result.

Link to post
Share on other sites


After reading and intially commenting in this thread a few weeks ago - I have been checking in every Harvey Norman store I go near to see if I can demo one of these sets in 3D to see if they exhibit the same crosstalk issue that my panel is displaying after updating the firmware as soon as I got it.....

I have been shocked to discover that not a single one of the 4 Harvey Norman stores I have visited aroudn SE Qld actually have a Samsung PSxxC7000 plasma set up for 3D viewing, and when asked if they can be set up - it's apparently too hard "but just check out the Samsung 3d LED as the picture is the same". What a joke.

Any educated consumer should know that a 3d plasma will perform better in 3d mode than a 3d LCD based set (especially in the area of cross-talk). I guess it just lends credibility to the "theory" that major retailers actively push customers towards the more expensive LED based sets which have higher sales margins.

Interestingly - the only Plasma based 3d set you can demo in any of the HN's I visited was the Panasonic VT20A based sets.

*edit - sorry for the slight off topic* ;)

Edited by Black beard
Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been shocked to discover that not a single one of the 4 Harvey Norman stores I have visited aroudn SE Qld actually have a Samsung PSxxC7000 plasma set up for 3D viewing, and when asked if they can be set up - it's apparently too hard "but just check out the Samsung 3d LED as the picture is the same". What a joke.

Any educated consumer should know that a 3d plasma will perform better in 3d mode than a 3d LCD based set (especially in the area of cross-talk). I guess it just lends credibility to the "theory" that major retailers actively push customers towards the more expensive LED based sets which have higher sales margins.

Interestingly - the only Plasma based 3d set you can demo in any of the HN's I visited was the Panasonic VT20A based sets.

*edit - sorry for the slight off topic* ;)

spot on same at harvey norman caringbah nsw only had the 9k series led displaying 3d and i played dumb and said i wanted to see the plasma 3d and he said "nah dont worry they look exactly the same". Well they may aswell now, both a s#*t load of crosstalk. DJ's is fine 4me to replace but need authorisation from samsung who now want to send a tech out again since the last one never turned up. I told them basically it was a DOA as as soon as i got the 3d starter kit i reported the fault to samsung. Looks like ill be waiting a while, i just wanna replacement b4 they're loaded with new firmware. Probly already too late. Also i know pyranna 3d was a 3d after thought but i bought it lastnite at jb, i think it has the best demonstration of crosstalk imaginable in the first minute. All the words that come up are either unreadable or give you the worst headache. Seriously! I have a new crosstalk demo disk to show lol
Link to post
Share on other sites
spot on same at harvey norman caringbah nsw only had the 9k series led displaying 3d and i played dumb and said i wanted to see the plasma 3d and he said "nah dont worry they look exactly the same". Well they may aswell now, both a s#*t load of crosstalk. DJ's is fine 4me to replace but need authorisation from samsung who now want to send a tech out again since the last one never turned up. I told them basically it was a DOA as as soon as i got the 3d starter kit i reported the fault to samsung. Looks like ill be waiting a while, i just wanna replacement b4 they're loaded with new firmware. Probly already too late. Also i know pyranna 3d was a 3d after thought but i bought it lastnite at jb, i think it has the best demonstration of crosstalk imaginable in the first minute. All the words that come up are either unreadable or give you the worst headache. Seriously! I have a new crosstalk demo disk to show lol

Patience is the key here. I trust Samsung will put in a fix for the issue.

Crosstalk is caused by the refresh rate not keeping up hence images are left behind resulting in double imaging appearing.

Why the slowed down the refresh rate is beyond me. It could be that they may have tried to reduce the mll rise with 96hz for 2d hence causing 3d to suffer. But this is purely speculation.

The reason/s may never come to fruition. :rolleyes:

Edited by CC Rider
Link to post
Share on other sites


i agree patience is the key but we also have be onto samsung about it as when i asked this guy who is to authorise my replacement (so he's not just a nobody) about guys on internet forums from australia and europe having perfect 3d until they upgraded to the 3000's firmware and instantly crosstalk was introduced, he said he hasnt heard of any reports of this and he reckons they have their demo model at the end of the hall to check for these issues. He said it is loaded with the latest firmware from dec 6th being 3005.1 and stated it does not show any crosstalk whatsoever. This is what worries me that we are holding out for a firmware fix which may not be coming?...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, all persons to whom I talked to at the Samsung hotline in Germany (and even the technician) said the same, i.e. that they never heard of these problems I mentioned (about the syncing of the 3d glasses and those firmware-issues) so I am really not sure whether they have to say so even though it's not the case or if they really have never heard of these issues.

But what I know for sure is that are quite a few people from different countries in Europe and from Australia experiencing the same problems - there must be a reason for this.

The following are a few reports from different boards worldwide where people are talking about the same problems, I already sent these links to Samsung Germany but I have not received any helpful answer till now. Maybe you can find some more as they should prove that it is not just pure imagination:

Edited by herbee
Link to post
Share on other sites

I just reverted my 3004.0 firmware (never loaded 3005) back to 1016.0 and it all seems to work still, the TV did a complete reset like it was new - and crosstalk is back to original.

I have to say, that scene in MvA with the spotlights on the landing pad still has some crosstalk, but everyone here agrees it's *so* much more watchable now. It's almost like with the new firmware you see 1/3 the light which you shouldn't, but the old firmware is about 1/6 or better.. sometimes the three spotlight images did converge to one, but then popped out to three again and so on. That never happened on the new firmware - it was always just bad. Most other scenes which are brighter don't show crosstalk, or if it does it's very subtle, which again is different to the new firmware where you see it all the time.

There are instructions on "how to do it" floating around the SamyGO forum, you need "root access" to the TV via putty so you can edit the Version.0 file (don't copy a new one! someone there has a brick already!) using vi back to 1001 & 2010/01/01, it's taken me all day (about 6 hours) and you need a fair amount of computer skills. The Internet@TV stuff has to be configured/upgraded first, takes about 20MB downloading, then some other stuff needs to be downloaded on the TV, about another 15MB which is all automated, and you need to set up your own webserver (http) on the same network the TV is on so some hacked files can be sent into the TV. Then you use two usb sticks formatted with different file systems (you could get away with reformatting just one in between) and the hack injects some extra code in the USB startup routine so it runs SamyGO when the stick is plugged in. I don't suggest anyone does this! (I don't want to be blamed for anything that goes wrong.)

I also had issues with my network, not having a proper access point, in that my local webserver I needed to use was not accessible at the same time as the Internet, so I was unplugging the wireless dongle and using a network cable for some steps, where I found out you get a "Network Server or interference occurred" error on widget updates until I fixed the DNS and Gateway to point to the same webserver machine I used. But once SamyGO is running, you can putty in as root and edit that file, I looked at the version in the menus after I exited vi and it said v 1001! Then I inserted my other usb key with 1016 on it and it asked if I wanted to "upgrade".

It does all work, and from the testing I've done, everything is as if I'm back to 4~5 months ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites


Nice work, Jasaroony! I looked at doing all the Samygo stuff a while ago, but I didn't think it worked on the c7000 models????? Well obviously it does then. Do ya need linux for any part of it? I'm very keen to do it. I hope you don't mind if I query you if I get stuck?

Is this the guide you followed?

http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/samy...n_a_C_series_TV

EDIT: Well I've pretty much got a handle on everything in that guide. Could you please explain about what you did after getting root access with that guide and with the version.0 file though? A bit lost there. I want to go back to the same version as you did.

Thankyou kindly :)

Edited by marauderxp
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's the link. There's another though - where the guy says he bricked his TV - and then the guy who worked it all out said "you should have edited the file to say..." where the lowest version numbers are given.

http://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/samygo/v...?f=9&t=1059

I only used the numbers, I didn't change any letters in the version file. (SWU_T-VALDEUC_001001_I04_ES000DS000KS000RS000_100101 this means I just changed the parts 001001 & 100101)

You do need Linux, I used Red Hat - an old VMWare image I used years ago... Had to remember how to mount a USB device.. had to relearn "vi" commands.. Had to use WireShark to work out why I got the "Network Server or interference occurred" where the packets were saying the TV was looking for the gateway which didn't exist! I did use IIS on XP for the http server though - and that all worked easily enough.

The nice thing, which I have not done (yet) is being able to mount windows shares (see the end of that link you posted) so they look like they are part of the USB device!

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

One last thing, when it says run the widget and the screen will go black for a while - they mean a few minutes! I'm pretty sure you need Internet access at that stage too. Very scary at that point seeing a black screen for so long!

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks! Going by the guide, I should be able to get away with using Windows though??? Putty is available for win.. ? And I use ext2fs for ext3 reading and writing..

To be honest, have never gotten around to using Linux and would hate to have to learn it all before this lol.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, if you can somehow read and write to a ext3 filesystem you're set! (Made a few edits to those couple of posts too, to be clearer.)

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

And I'm glad you mentioned about that long black screen. I would've been looking for an oxygen supply lol. Thanks for sharing all this.

Just formatted one of my flash drives to ext3. Not sure whether to tackle this tonight or tomorrow though. A bit tired tonight and we all know most screwups are caused by those late night jobs lol. I hope this hack still works on the 3005, as that's what I'm on..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't see why it wouldn't work on 3005... But I did just re-login as root (I didn't need to do anything extra - the firmware doesn't delete everything that's done already) and I now have a Version.1 file and no xxx.0 file - so it looks like it cycles around for protection, you may need to edit xxx.0 or xxx.1 whichever you currently have. (That's probably what tricked those with a brick!)

I timed how long SamyGO takes to boot too: was a couple of minutes since I plugged in the USB key before putty allowed a connection.

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

I figured any would do... So I just used iis. Someone else said use xitami (a very basic one) so it doesn't need to do much.

Oh, also the file in unix is called "Version.0" or "Version.1" when you use vi inside the TV... See the capital letter? Unix is case sensitive with filenames.

(Commands in vi I used were "i" for insert mode with backspace to remove letters being replaced, then esc to get back out and ":wq" for command, write, quit. You will need that much Linux smarts to edit the file using putty.

along with "cd " ... always put a space after "cd"!, "ls -l" - the usual ways to move around the directory and see stuff!)

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

putty is just the terminal emulator... You should look up those commands I edited into the post previously. (Remember linux uses / and not \ too!)

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn. Well It's time I own up to my stupidity yesterday lol. I was going through the extended service menu on the TV and then I was guessing other secret codes on the remote, and guess what? It's in some kind of mode now where the TV won't allow the source button on the remote to do anything, the same with the numbers and the media player button. And I have to hold the power button on the remote for a few seconds to turn it off. It hasn't been a serious problem because can still access source etc through the menu, but of course now, because I can't use the numbers, I can't create the 'develop' user in internet tv, so I'm screwed lol.

Been trying to 'unlock' whatever it is I've done, and there's nothing much in the service menu. I can't bring up extended service menu because need hotel mode for that, and seems only way of doing that is the mute119enter . Argh!

Only thing I can think of at the moment is to use a proxy or something to make the pc the server for internetTV since I can't set the server in there?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tried a full reset? What was it, the exit button for 5 seconds or something? (I always do a full reset in the service menu too. There's a selection for that, but it took a couple of seconds last time to work though.)

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, factory reset, everything, still the same. It's quite an odd mode whatever it's in. My own stupidity 100%. But I actually at the time was hoping to bring up some fancy 3d settings menu for this crosstalk issue lol. Talk about irony.

Hey, so in that internettv development menu with the server setting, do you know what it's set to by default without changing it??

I'm thinking maybe I can somehow hook TV up through LAN and redirect that server to localhost instead?????? Yikes, getting a bit beyond me now lol. You have any ideas abou tthat?

Link to post
Share on other sites

From memory there's two items, set server - which initially has blank values... I changed it to 192.168.0.91 (my http machine). And the sync. option which does the update and returns.

I think you're going to need to re-enter the service menu and write down all the values you see. Maybe I can enter it and give you the differences - sometime tonight, it's being used at the moment though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks heaps.

Not much in there though really, and I don't think I ever did change anything in the extended, not that I can see that now anyway.

One thing I'm curious about is if you have a 'LOCK 0' on the info on the main page in service menu? I don't think that's normal?

Anyway,

Option Menu - > Type: 58FAmV1D

Greyed out options - Local Set: AD_Au, Model PC7000

Tuner SEC_TC

DDR (nothing)

Front Color W-Violet

Control Menu > Sub Option Menu >

RS232 jack : UART

Watchdog: on

WD COUNT 0

Dimm TYpe nothing

LVDS FOrmat: PDP

OTA test OFF

OTN server type operating

OTN test server OFF

OTN suppport ON

OTN duration OFF

OTN fail test OFF

Sound and config option.. well nothing of importance in there anyway, just the HDMI and timings etc

umm HDMI ROBIN = ON

HDMI CALLBACK ON

the rest is just really nothing in there

and that's all I have.

Damn

Link to post
Share on other sites

And it doesn't even have anything in 'date of purchase' now. It always stayed there even after factory reset.

And Hotel option just shows a few greyed out options for it but no option to enable/disable

Shop option shows nothing but I can enter that by holding down menu button on TV while powerup. Tried all that, but tv still doesn't allow source/number/media button on remote

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, all those settings are the same on mine. I just reset everything back after the full reset on exit... Took a while, sorry.

I did see the REMOCON Pairing value of 0 : sounded interesting, but I couldn't change it to anything else. So nope.

Select log type : IR Key - was another, looking at the log, I do have some numbers in it... "IR Key" is always where I leave it too, there are other logs but not as interesting, some are empty.

Does the red light on the IR sensor flash when you press those non-functioning keys? Do they then appear in the log? I'm just thinking of ruling out a broken remote - maybe you can use a universal one? I think my Onkyo remote can be set to do all those functions.

There is also one other thing in the normal TV menus, about remote pairing or something - I've not really looked, but the help tip implies it's about using multiple remotes in the same room or something?

Might have to call it a night for now though, sorry.

Link to post
Share on other sites
And it doesn't even have anything in 'date of purchase' now. It always stayed there even after factory reset.

Same here, although just looking before I did notice it updated to 23rd Dec 2010! That's a first! It was always April before - before I got the TV!

Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing I'm curious about is if you have a 'LOCK 0' on the info on the main page in service menu? I don't think that's normal?

Didn't remember to look, sorry, but I don't think it said that. It's not something easily forgotten.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No need say sorry, I really appreciate your help. Time for me to sleep soon too anyway

Yeah the TV sees when I press those buttons. The power button is what makes me think that the remote is fine, because the TV will not power off unless I hold the button for several seconds.

I've tried learning those buttons in question on a uni' remote, but same deal. And yeah interesting enough though, my IR KEY log doesn't seem to record any of those button presses except for the power button when I hold it down to turn off. It record that as 'IDSECRTPWR OFF' (secret power off). And from memory I think my remocon pairing was always as X in the service menu.

So most of the day I've been just trying senseless codes on the remote in hopes to reverse it lol.

I think a firmware upgrade/downgrade might fix it back up, but not much chance of that is there.

AGain I appreciate your help. I'll no doubt keep trying more stuff tomorrow. I'll be greatful if you come up with any more ideas

Thanks

Edited by marauderxp
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...