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bradp51

Time To Enjoy The 65 Vt20a

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Well time to get off the DTV (Just a quick look and post after lunch). All the mowing is done, half of the edging and a new load of firewood gathered and stacked for next season.

Certainly can recommend this model. So many adjustments available to get just the PQ you want. :D

Now time to go and enjoy this great TV for a few hours instead of talking about it. Now what do watch ??

cheers

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Well time to get off the DTV (Just a quick look and post after lunch). All the mowing is done, half of the edging and a new load of firewood gathered and stacked for next season.

Certainly can recommend this model. So many adjustments available to get just the PQ you want. :D

Now time to go and enjoy this great TV for a few hours instead of talking about it. Now what do watch ??

cheers

Hi Brad

I have been fortunate as an owner of the Samsung 63 7000 TV lucky to be given a 65vt20 for my perusal by one of my close relatives.

I have had it for the past month and can confidentally report this is one beautiful set. As an ex owner of the 65v10 this model is the best Panasonic plasma I have

ever had in my possesion.

The Samsung is no slouch and has it's good points but one thing I noticed is despite the set being 2" bigger the picture is noticably larger.

All this cr@p talk about SD and HD FTA performance being poor in the Pana could be further from the truth. I had both sets side by side and can say that if there were

artefacts in the picture those same artefacts appeared on both sets.

The pic on the big Pana is a lot more defined than it was on the V10. Infact I found it hard to pic the difference between the two(Samsung 63 7000). It is funny because

in the store I noted it wasn't the best on the Pana. But home calibrated to my liking it looks a million dollars.

I adjusted both sets to get the best pq to my eyes. The black level on the Pana is extraordinay. Being the 65" even if they rise as they will the MLL will still be very

acceptable

I like Samsungs GUI menu's a lot more.

You are fortunate to own such a set and I wouldn't miss the Sammy if I swapped it for the larger Pana.

I am returning it back to my relative on Sunday. I have to reverse my opinion on the Pana. It is definitely a most accomplished TV.

All that bickering on avforums by our English cousins is uncalled for. I noted they have the TX not TH and have the same menus as the US Pana's. I think they may also

have the 60hz capable chip for NTSC TV hence the problems they are encountering over there with their 50HZ Pal broadcasts. Incidentaly this has been smooth as silk on One Hd

for all the sports I have watched on it.

Enjoy your set it is definitely as good (maybe even better) than the Sammy 63 7000 :)

Edited by CC Rider

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All that bickering on avforums by our English cousins is uncalled for. I noted they have the TX not TH and have the same menus as the US Pana's. I think they may also have the 60hz capable chip for NTSC TV hence the problems they are encountering over there with their 50HZ Pal broadcasts which has been smooth as silk on one hd for all the sports I watched on it.

Some of the 50Hz effects are subtle. With my 50VT20A one evening I looked for the breaking up of white lines on a sports playing field into red green and blue during a rapid pan. I saw it. Have never seen it since! (Not saying you are necessarily mistaken about the 65VT20A and 50Hz issues, but people vary greatly in their sensitivities to different artifacts.) Regarding alleged SD softness, I haven't seen it on my 50VT20A. Free to air SD looks the same whether upscaled by my HTPC to 1920x1080, or viewed with the 50VT20A's own digital tuner.

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Some of the 50Hz effects are subtle. With my 50VT20A one evening I looked for the breaking up of white lines on a sports playing field into red green and blue during a rapid pan. I saw it. Have never seen it since! (Not saying you are necessarily mistaken about the 65VT20A and 50Hz issues, but people vary greatly in their sensitivities to different artifacts.) Regarding alleged SD softness, I haven't seen it on my 50VT20A. Free to air SD looks the same whether upscaled by my HTPC to 1920x1080, or viewed with the 50VT20A's own digital tuner.

That is true. Many of the people on AVS and AV don't watch TV they actually analyse it frame by frame.

There is nothing I can fault this TV on. THe FTA SD is as good as what I am seeing on my Samsung 63 7000. I currently watching Ant Bully on both and the darkish

scenes look so much better on the Pana.

The commercials look exactly the same but larger on the Pana.

The only way to assess something is to actually live with it for a while . What people write can be taken with a grain of salt.

I sometimes wonder if some people have an alterior motive when writing their comments on AVS or AV forums.

I love my Sammy but can also say with confidence that the Panasonic 65Vt20 is a magnificent TV.

Edited by CC Rider

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Interesting that you have changed your opinion of the Panasonic CC :D. As you can see the VT20 is an advance over the V10 that you owned, it’s still far from perfect and has its own set of issues, every TV does.

The typical Panasonic SD softness was apparently fixed on the higher spec 2010 models like the VT20. The deliberate filtering employed on other models never created artefacts, in fact it should have reduced them at the expense of less fine detail and sharpness.

When you say

I currently watching Ant Bully on both and the darkish scenes look so much better on the Pana.
I assume you mean shadows are brighter on the Panasonic.

Panasonic push up the lower end of the gamma curve to give more shadow detail but unfortunately that’s not accurate to the source. Samsungs typically go the other way and have shadows that are a little too dark for a more high contrast look.

It would be nice if manufactures gave us an accurate gamma curve that conforms to the industry standard rather than the one they think we should have. Its not like the standard curve is a secret or difficult to achieve.

As you can see 2” extra does not sound like much but it adds up to a significant increase in screen area. Now you can see why I am not keen to go back to a 65” or 63” after a 70”, 5 to 7” is a LOT bigger. :D

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Interesting that you have changed your opinion of the Panasonic CC :D. As you can see the VT20 is an advance over the V10 that you owned, it’s still far from perfect and has its own set of issues, every TV does.

The typical Panasonic SD softness was apparently fixed on the higher spec 2010 models like the VT20. The deliberate filtering employed on other models never created artefacts, in fact it should have reduced them at the expense of less fine detail and sharpness.

When you say I assume you mean shadows are brighter on the Panasonic.

Panasonic push up the lower end of the gamma curve to give more shadow detail but unfortunately that’s not accurate to the source. Samsungs typically go the other way and have shadows that are a little too dark for a more high contrast look.

It would be nice if manufactures gave us an accurate gamma curve that conforms to the industry standard rather than the one they think we should have. Its not like the standard curve is a secret or difficult to achieve.

As you can see 2” extra does not sound like much but it adds up to a significant increase in screen area. Now you can see why I am not keen to go back to a 65” or 63” after a 70”, 5 to 7” is a LOT bigger. :D

Owen you don't miss a thing :D

Totally impressed would be an understatement. I was wrong to judge the set as I did. Yes it is not perfect but as you say what is.

As you have owned a 70" set I apppreciate your dilemma. The biggest hurdle going to say 75 or even 80" will be the price.

Hopefully competition by the big 3 will force prices south even more.

Edited by CC Rider

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I went from 70" SXRD to 65" Pana and am completely used to it now. Even from the start I didn't notice much difference because I now sit 1m closer. But I did notice an enormous difference in the blacks.

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When you say I assume you mean shadows are brighter on the Panasonic.

Exactly

Pana got picked up this morning....sad to see it drive of......mmm...me want one :wub:

I have read on AVS by DNice that the black level rise on the vt25 (vt20) will result in their MLL being higher than that of Samsung and LG.

This guy has a lot of credibility. I wonder if this also applies to the larger 65" panel which had the lowest rise of all on the V10's.

I will pm him and report back.

Edited by CC Rider

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I went from 70" SXRD to 65" Pana and am completely used to it now. Even from the start I didn't notice much difference because I now sit 1m closer. But I did notice an enormous difference in the blacks.

I sit only 2.8 meters from the 70”, moving much closer isn't an option. Even at that distance 70” is not big enough for wide aspect ratio movies so I want an 80” plus.

My modified SXRD has a black level 70% lower than standard, so while the VT20 does have darker blacks (at least when new) the difference is not that great. To its credit the SXRD does not flicker, suffer from posterization or plus width/dither noise like the VT20 and it looks less “digital” than any flat panel I have seen.

If my SXRD where to fail and be unrepairable as yours was I would have to consider the 65” Panasonic because there are no other decent options that don't cost over $20k, but I would not be happy about it.

It's aggravating that progress has been so slow over then last 4 years and that manufacturers cant provide a good 80-85” at a more reasonable price especially since they can do the 65” so bloody cheap.

Edited by Owen

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It's aggravating that progress has been so slow over then last 4 years and that manufacturers cant provide a good 80-85” at a more reasonable price especially since they can do the 65” so bloody cheap.

The last four years have seen prices tumble so quickly (something like 30% reduction each year). I can't believe 65" plasmas are sub $2500. Surely an 80" can't be more than $10k...but for some reason they don't want to sell them that cheap, or they are still having troubles producing panels that big with a decent enough yield, hence the higher price to cover the lower yeild rates?

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Just bought the 65 today! Pretty excited waiting for delivery :D

I breifly read DNice's posts on burn in and calibration a few weeks ago, I might have another look.

I'd be very interested in whatever you find out off him, CC Rider. How important would you rate the burn in slides? And do you use his calibration settings?

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Hi Brad

I have been fortunate as an owner of the Samsung 63 7000 TV lucky to be given a 65vt20 for my perusal by one of my close relatives.

I have had it for the past month and can confidentally report this is one beautiful set. As an ex owner of the 65v10 this model is the best Panasonic plasma I have

ever had in my possesion.

The Samsung is no slouch and has it's good points but one thing I noticed is despite the set being 2" bigger the picture is noticably larger.

All this cr@p talk about SD and HD FTA performance being poor in the Pana could be further from the truth. I had both sets side by side and can say that if there were

artefacts in the picture those same artefacts appeared on both sets.

The pic on the big Pana is a lot more defined than it was on the V10. Infact I found it hard to pic the difference between the two(Samsung 63 7000). It is funny because

in the store I noted it wasn't the best on the Pana. But home calibrated to my liking it looks a million dollars.

I adjusted both sets to get the best pq to my eyes. The black level on the Pana is extraordinay. Being the 65" even if they rise as they will the MLL will still be very

acceptable

I like Samsungs GUI menu's a lot more.

You are fortunate to own such a set and I wouldn't miss the Sammy if I swapped it for the larger Pana.

I am returning it back to my relative on Sunday. I have to reverse my opinion on the Pana. It is definitely a most accomplished TV.

All that bickering on avforums by our English cousins is uncalled for. I noted they have the TX not TH and have the same menus as the US Pana's. I think they may also

have the 60hz capable chip for NTSC TV hence the problems they are encountering over there with their 50HZ Pal broadcasts. Incidentaly this has been smooth as silk on One Hd

for all the sports I have watched on it.

Enjoy your set it is definitely as good (maybe even better) than the Sammy 63 7000 :)

Hi CC

I almost bought the Samsung but doing 3 trips with both wife and son and looking at them side by side in a store with the same picture on both and I went the Pana.

I have mentioned my reasons on here before. I think though as I have said before on this forum that you can take either set home and be 100% happy because you will not have both to compare each with. For me size and overall appearance and presence were enough of a difference and the black/shadow detail that both my wife and son could see.

Also skin tone appeared just that bit more natural. Both great TV's. It can come down to which bezel you like the best.

I really enjoyed Avatar in 3d on it last night. Even the wife was impressed.

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Just bought the 65 today! Pretty excited waiting for delivery :D

I breifly read DNice's posts on burn in and calibration a few weeks ago, I might have another look.

I'd be very interested in whatever you find out off him, CC Rider. How important would you rate the burn in slides? And do you use his calibration settings?

The big Pana's are less susceptable to IR.

I always do the BI slides with a new plasma. Can you please post the URL for his calibration settings. Remember every set is different and also 50" calib settings will not be applicable for 65".

I recall reading tha Panasonic do the 100 hour prep in factory. But not sure how accurate this is.

Always the case avoid Dynamic mode and keep Contrast at 50 or below for the first 100 hours is the general rules.

Edited by CC Rider

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Not sure if we can link other forums on here, so sorry if we shouldn't...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232441

As I said, haven't read into it that much, I'm just 'aware' of the need to perhaps do some prep work on the new panel before tinkering.

Do you have any links to simple setup guides/rules?

D-Nice stipulates North American sets only. He has also stated that what applies to NA sets does not necssarily apply to non NA sets. He was queried by Sonic Blue

in the main Pana thread about flicker and motion handling and he came right out and told Sonic (who is an Aussie) that the NA and Ozzie sets are different and cannot be

compared. Infact the English TX not TH versions suffer from 50hz motion issues which I know our sets do not. The English sets are identical in features as the US version

ie I noted theirs have CATS and their PVR functionality is like US sets whilst these are not in the OZ sets. I suspect (and serves them right) Pana shipped them the NA

set with the 60hz TV tuner chip.

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D-Nice stipulates North American sets only. He has also stated that what applies to NA sets does not necssarily apply to non NA sets. He was queried by Sonic Blue

in the main Pana thread about flicker and motion handling and he came right out and told Sonic (who is an Aussie) that the NA and Ozzie sets are different and cannot be

compared. Infact the English TX not TH versions suffer from 50hz motion issues which I know our sets do not. The English sets are identical in features as the US version

ie I noted theirs have CATS and their PVR functionality is like US sets whilst these are not in the OZ sets. I suspect (and serves them right) Pana shipped them the NA

set with the 60hz TV tuner chip.

After having this set for 2 weeks now. It is easily the best tv I've had. Sold my samsung 63 inch and previous to that 60 inch sony sxrd. Fiddled with setting little bit. But amazed how good fta channels and DVD player which is only s-video.

Brilliant on the two 3d movies I've got and other blu rays. Can't wait to get my free copy of avatar3d.

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After having this set for 2 weeks now. It is easily the best tv I've had. Sold my samsung 63 inch and previous to that 60 inch sony sxrd. Fiddled with setting little bit. But amazed how good fta channels and DVD player which is only s-video.

Brilliant on the two 3d movies I've got and other blu rays. Can't wait to get my free copy of avatar3d.

I can vouch for what you are experiencing. This is definitely best set going around....even better than the Sammy 63 7000 :ninja:

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The price has come down to $3,499 for the 65 VT20A:

Panasonic 65" VT20A

Now that's a bargain!!!!

However I think the price maybe for the 58vt20

***Pre Christmas delivery for orders placed before Wednesday 22 Dec in metro areas********Bonus 3 D Home Theater Pack by redemption, see Panasonic web site for details********** NOTE We guarantee you will receive a valid participating retailer wholesaler receipt that will qualify for this promotion*****

VIErA TH-P65VT20A 65" (165cm) Full-HD 3D Digital Plasma TV [Model No: TH-P58VT20A***<

Notice the reference to the 58vt20 in the advertisement. But I could be wrong. He has the 58vt20 for $3399 or $100 less?

Definitely not the 65vt20 at that price. Craig has just fixed up the error

http://www.streamaster.com.au/index.php?ma...products_id=111 When something is tooo goood to be true it is.

Price $4,399

Edited by CC Rider

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some great feed back on the 65vt there cc, definitely looks like the display of the moment :)

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We got our 65VT20A about a week ago. We'd been looking around at all brands for quite awhile and had almost picked the Sony NX810 - but then they pulled the plug and discontinued all 60" models!

Saw a bit of Avatar 3D on the Pana in store, last weekend - and we were blown away. Unbelievably better than at the Movies. So I was hooked.

Sadly, at this stage, I must agree with the reviewers who say that its tuner doesn't do FTA SD very well; soft, waxy, artefacts, etc. Even FTA HD isn't spectacular (having been used to our Sony SXRDs for four years). Using our PVRs' video format set to 1080i the PQ becomes quite acceptable.

However, DVDs/BDs are indeed spectacular. And those "blacks"! We haven't got our bonus package yet so we won't be able to compare the 3D Avatar until then.

The abundance of Menu Settings is bewildering, to me, and I've only done a basic setup until I get the feel for it.

Can anyone point me the way to a recommended set of picture adjustments for our Australian sets to start me off?

Any help and advice is really appreciated.

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some great feed back on the 65vt there cc, definitely looks like the display of the moment :)

I always take note of your comments Al :) . Totally agree this is the best new set currently out there. Worth the extra over the s20 IMO.

Edited by CC Rider

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We got our 65VT20A about a week ago. We'd been looking around at all brands for quite awhile and had almost picked the Sony NX810 - but then they pulled the plug and discontinued all 60" models!

Saw a bit of Avatar 3D on the Pana in store, last weekend - and we were blown away. Unbelievably better than at the Movies. So I was hooked.

Sadly, at this stage, I must agree with the reviewers who say that its tuner doesn't do FTA SD very well; soft, waxy, artefacts, etc. Even FTA HD isn't spectacular (having been used to our Sony SXRDs for four years). Using our PVRs' video format set to 1080i the PQ becomes quite acceptable.

However, DVDs/BDs are indeed spectacular. And those "blacks"! We haven't got our bonus package yet so we won't be able to compare the 3D Avatar until then.

The abundance of Menu Settings is bewildering, to me, and I've only done a basic setup until I get the feel for it.

Can anyone point me the way to a recommended set of picture adjustments for our Australian sets to start me off?

Any help and advice is really appreciated.

You say FTA HD isn't spectacular.......but is there any decent FTA HD any more. Admittedly I live in the country but I can never find any HD of acceptable quality except for maybe the occasional sport on ONEHD.

I think if you just set the picture at THX it is so close to correct (according to the DVE Blu-ray) I would just lie back and enjoy the picture quality and the gorgeous blacks.

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You say FTA HD isn't spectacular.......but is there any decent FTA HD any more. Admittedly I live in the country but I can never find any HD of acceptable quality except for maybe the occasional sport on ONEHD.

I think if you just set the picture at THX it is so close to correct (according to the DVE Blu-ray) I would just lie back and enjoy the picture quality and the gorgeous blacks.

You are correct. There’s little, if any, decent FTA HD anymore. Sometimes I find myself blaming the hardware for problems issuing from the source. I am mostly conscious of that and in this instance I use the SXRD TVs as the benchmark. Even with pathetic source material, their internal tuner provides a level of processing which exceeds that of the Pana. On the other hand, I found the SXRD (apart from other “issues”) wouldn’t accept some upscaled inputs; it’s own processing conflicting and degrading the result. Fortunately, the Pana can accept and seemingly pass through upscaled material; hence the satisfying alternative via the PVR 1080i video format.

Last night we watched the DVD “The Chronicles of Riddick” and it was awe-inspiring compared with the SXRD. The Oppo upscaled and the Pana picture was almost Blu-ray quality; and with those gorgeous blacks. We currently have Normal Viewing Mode, 68 Contrast, +6 Bright, 25 Colour, 60 Sharp, Cool Colour Balance, Power Save On.

This setup appears to work well with FTA (PVRs), and BD player - all on HDMI 1 output from the A/V receiver.

I’m sure there’s a lot more I can tweak up - but suggestions would be very handy to trial and compare.

THX had a yellowish cast (to me) which I discarded. I haven’t done a calibration with our Spears & Munsil but I suppose I can manage when I get the opportunity.

For 3D - when we get the bonus pack - do you think it appropriate to programme the A/V receiver to set up the 3D BD player to operate via a dedicated HDMI 2 output to the Pana HDMI 2 input- to provide for customized settings?

The local salesman (unusually well-informed) says the Pana sorts things out itself for the most part and just a few tweaks maybe necessary for personal taste? ? ?

Thanks for your observations and comments.

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