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Loss Of Hd Channels


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Sort of but not really, since SBS HD is 99% upconverted. They have *never* shown anything HD from tape, only from live, and that has only been via satellite (not within Australia).

Yep, and "ABCNewsHD" is not really an HD channel. It is a 100% SD channel that just happens to be broadcast on an HD channel.

Simple. (Read the last several years of this HD subforum). All networks have to broadcast their "main" (analogue) channel in SD. Whether they simulcast it in HD is optional, since 1/1/2007.

And the reason for that is, SD decoders are legal in Australia.

And the reason for that is, well it's an "I told you so" moment from 10 years ago when the Howard govt tried to make HD the minimum requirement. But a misinformation campaign from News Corp (including letterbox drops) who wanted a share of the digital pie like in the UK, unlike what happened in Aus & USA, and also from some retailers like Alex Encel (including a famous little red bi-plane trailing a banner saying "STOP THE HDTV LIES") who wanted to exclusively import European TVs that couldn't decode HD.

The misinformation boiled down to "we will have to replace our perfectly working TVs with new ones that cost $20,000" when in truth the difference between SD vs HD decoders was $200 then, and $20 now.

And the new HDTVs? They cost $2,000.

-----

The 4 Corners article:

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s229316.htm

Encel's forum contributions, eg:

http://www2b.abc.net.au/4corners/sforum26/posts/143.shtm

CK.

Thanks CK for this very informative post!

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Then they started turning their flourishing high def channels into complete rubbish. Well that was enough for one man and he turned to another source that he resisted for many years, but thanks to a recent upgrade from his isp he figured why not.
Yep, if it is worth watching in HD, and our broadcasters only broadcast it in SD here, I do the same. (and those that say "why don't you buy the BR".... well, I am a watch once kind of guy, no point having shelves full of expensive BRs of shows I have seen, I have a shelf full of Buffy & Angel box sets... that takes up a LOT of room!).
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Yep, if it is worth watching in HD, and our broadcasters only broadcast it in SD here, I do the same. (and those that say "why don't you buy the BR".... well, I am a watch once kind of guy, no point having shelves full of expensive BRs of shows I have seen, I have a shelf full of Buffy & Angel box sets... that takes up a LOT of room!).

Not all HD shows have been released on Blu-Ray either. :angry:

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Guest lifeplan
The Howard government forced them to show an average of 3 hours a day of HD, not required to be native HD quality. The way ABC seeks to achieve this is up to them. If they wish to broadcast 720p for 24 hours a day, to reduce complaints or make it easier for them, then that's their choice. Prime HD is able to turn their HD on and off whenever there's some real HD available, so that proves it can be done.

CK.

Thanks for that info. Other posts also confirm it was an ABC decision.

What really angered me was that the ABC did not tell the truth when advertising that "HDTV is moving", when in fact HDTV was actually being killed off. I tried to find out what was happening prior to the change, but they would not reply. Even media watch would not respond beyond an automated acceptance of the query.

I have recently returned to country WA after 6 years in Perth. Here the only digitals are ABC and SBS. HD programmes on ABC1 HDTV Channel 20 used to be the highlight of my viewing. On my EPG they have removed Channel 20 and also the name HDTV and the 24hr news is on Channel 24. We get channels 21 to 24. What happens to Channel 20?

If the ABC can't tell the truth about this then are we to trust the veracity of their news channel?

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If the ABC can't tell the truth about this then are we to trust the veracity of their news channel?

are you for real? like serious? what should the ABC do? just sit there and do nothing? 99% of people i am certain would be happy that the ABC has created News24 instead of just keeping ABCHD which was simply a simulcast of ABC1.

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I have recently returned to country WA after 6 years in Perth. Here the only digitals are ABC and SBS.

I'm sure many 3rd world countries have better TV broadcast services than viewers in regional WA. It's unbelievable that country WA has to wait another 2+ years before the regionals get a re-transmission going via VAST (and even then it will only be via crappy locked down featureless STB's).

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Thanks for that info. Other posts also confirm it was an ABC decision.

No worries.

What really angered me was that the ABC did not tell the truth when advertising that "HDTV is moving", when in fact HDTV was actually being killed off.

Yeah, "moving" meant the LCN was moving from 20 to 24, that's all.

I have recently returned to country WA after 6 years in Perth. Here the only digitals are ABC and SBS. HD programmes on ABC1 HDTV Channel 20 used to be the highlight of my viewing. On my EPG they have removed Channel 20 and also the name HDTV and the 24hr news is on Channel 24. We get channels 21 to 24. What happens to Channel 20?

The "L" in LCN stands for "logical", as in, the opposite to "physical". It's not a real channel. It's just a label. The physical setup to the streams hasn't changed since they introduced ABC3, with the small exception that they tweaked the VBR to include all the channels and upgraded the encoders.

So "what happens to channel 20" is that the actual video/audio/text stream is still there, but now it contains different content, has a new label, and a different LCN.

If the ABC can't tell the truth about this then are we to trust the veracity of their news channel?

To be fair, the technical section of the ABC transmission FAQ explained this quite well.

CK.

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Guest lifeplan
are you for real? like serious? what should the ABC do? just sit there and do nothing? 99% of people i am certain would be happy that the ABC has created News24 instead of just keeping ABCHD which was simply a simulcast of ABC1.

From your response I can only conclude that you have not seen and heard HD TV and therefore don't know what you are now missing out on by only having SD TV.

However, this part of the debate is about why the ABC took the HD away from ABC1 content and created a news channel that either completely, or at least largely, is broadcast in SD. They also did not tell their viewers what was actually going on regarding the changes to HD.

Your comment re 99% of people being happy is possibly an emotional reaction, however the facts are that according to published data, currently only about 0.5% of FTA viewers watch ABC News24. This would indicate that 99.5% of people do NOT want it; or don't care.

I have not yet heard why ABC1 cannot be broadcast in HD and the ABC News24 in SD, or alternatively, why the change had to be done now and not in the near future when all households are digital only with the ability to buy relatively cheap HD settop boxes, as the lowest cost entry point. There have been plenty of warnings that settop boxes will be needed in the future.

This is the problem with being kept in the dark by the ABC.

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Guest lifeplan
No worries.

Yeah, "moving" meant the LCN was moving from 20 to 24, that's all.

The "L" in LCN stands for "logical", as in, the opposite to "physical". It's not a real channel. It's just a label. The physical setup to the streams hasn't changed since they introduced ABC3, with the small exception that they tweaked the VBR to include all the channels and upgraded the encoders.

So "what happens to channel 20" is that the actual video/audio/text stream is still there, but now it contains different content, has a new label, and a different LCN.

To be fair, the technical section of the ABC transmission FAQ explained this quite well.

CK.

Thanks once again for your expertise.

Where can I find the ABC transmission FAQ?

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I have not yet heard why ABC1 cannot be broadcast in HD and the ABC News24 in SD...

That comes down to legislation. The original plan was to make buying a HD receiver optional to keep costs of going digital low, because of a short sighted belief that HD would always remain a niche product. So now we are stuck with legislation requiring the "main" channel be simultaneously broadcast in Analogue and SD digital.

I think it will be different once analogue is switched off, after all when everyone has digital, how do you define what makes a channel the "main" channel? Even then however, they may be cautious about putting popular content exclusivley on a HD channel, at least until the ratio of SD receivers becomes small.

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I think it will be different once analogue is switched off, after all when everyone has digital, how do you define what makes a channel the "main" channel? Even then however, they may be cautious about putting popular content exclusivley on a HD channel, at least until the ratio of SD receivers becomes small.

In fact, it's reasonably likely that Nine's HD replacement and 7mate will show just as much or more HD content as 9HD and 7HD. This was, after all, the purpose of the HD multichannel policy.

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In fact, it's reasonably likely that Nine's HD replacement and 7mate will show just as much or more HD content as 9HD and 7HD. This was, after all, the purpose of the HD multichannel policy.

Quantity over quality?

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Quantity over quality?

Well the original TenHD schedule certainly wasn't that: It had many first-run niche HD programs, plus all the HD sport that ONE would have had at that time.

The old 7HD multichannel schedule looks a bit like the 7mate lineup, so the mix is still there.

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Guest lifeplan
I'll be cheeky now ...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=abc+news24+faqs&l=1

Click on the section labelled, "What about those programs like Doctor Who, that are made in native HD? It's a waste of the technology just for news."

Thanks for the gentle reminder.

To me it really confirms that the decision was not the result of a demand but of an agenda.

Just like NBN 2.0 and the internet filter it is a case of: we know what's best and you pay the cost; regardless i.e. socialism in action.

I guess I will just have to wait for the non analogue era.

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The old 7HD multichannel schedule looks a bit like the 7mate lineup, so the mix is still there.

But the problem with a themed channel is that unless the HD content is designed for the target market it won't be shown on the HD channel which is stupid. The FTA networks have the potential for a HD multi-channel so why can't they just wake up and show as much HD content as possible regardless of what it is!

Nat Geo HD and Discovery HD do just that so why the f*ck can't the FTA networks get a clue and do just that????????????

Themed channels targeting a specific market are great if you're creating SD multi-channels, but not if you're using your one and only HD channel!

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But the problem with a themed channel is that unless the HD content is designed for the target market it won't be shown on the HD channel which is stupid. The FTA networks have the potential for a HD multi-channel so why can't they just wake up and show as much HD content as possible regardless of what it is!

Nat Geo HD and Discovery HD do just that so why the f*ck can't the FTA networks get a clue and do just that????????????

Themed channels targeting a specific market are great if you're creating SD multi-channels, but not if you're using your one and only HD channel!

Mostly our FTA's are backwards thinking, just like the management of DTV here whether it be Foxtel/FTA.

Edited by Adrian90
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Thanks for the gentle reminder.

To me it really confirms that the decision was not the result of a demand but of an agenda.

Just like NBN 2.0 and the internet filter it is a case of: we know what's best and you pay the cost; regardless i.e. socialism in action.

I guess I will just have to wait for the non analogue era.

By 'decision', are you referring to the HD quota from 2003 - 2013? (Not sure). If so, it's only temporary, and while I can see the argument that it's an agenda, the other argument that it's to solve the chicken-and-egg problem is quite robust.

As for your broader political argument ... well I'll bite (because it's the season for it!) and say that the best outcome comes from a mix of public and private, and happy to argue where the balance lies, but to dismiss either one out-of-hand is folly IMO. Disclosure: My care factor for the NBN price tag is lower than it could be, because my suburb is quite new (10 years old) yet has no HFC and the DSL technology maxes out at 3 megabits, where the difference between ADSL2 and ADSL2+ is effectively zero, therefore I hold out no hope for any on-the-horizon improvement. Plus I buy into the upload speed argument.

But the problem with a themed channel is that unless the HD content is designed for the target market it won't be shown on the HD channel which is stupid. The FTA networks have the potential for a HD multi-channel so why can't they just wake up and show as much HD content as possible regardless of what it is!

Is 7mate really *themed* in the way ONE is? It looks about as themed as GO, or the old TenHD, which had theme-nights and a skew towards documentaries.

My main problem with ONE is that it had just as much HD sport as TenHD, and therefore less HD overall. 7mate doesn't seem like it will have that issue compared to 7HD.

CK.

Edited by ckent
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Is 7mate really *themed* in the way ONE is? It looks about as themed as GO, or the old TenHD, which had theme-nights and a skew towards documentaries.

Yes, it is themed for blokey type shows. You're not going to see Ghost Whisperer or other shows like that so they'll never be shown in HD any more. I don't even think Covert Affairs is blokey enough either so even that may end up SD only. Same thing with Bones and Castle.

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Yes, it is themed for blokey type shows. You're not going to see Ghost Whisperer or other shows like that so they'll never be shown in HD any more. I don't even think Covert Affairs is blokey enough either so even that may end up SD only. Same thing with Bones and Castle.

"Blokey" isn't a genre in the same way that sports is. We'll still get a mixture of movies, comedy, drama, sport. That's why I'm not worried about a drop in HD availability.

CK.

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It was my understanding that the studios never wanted HD in the first place: what they really wanted was multichannelling, so that they could stream more advertising into homes; however HD was foisted onto them.

Well, they seem to have got what they wanted by stealth: reducing HD to a Claytons version and the quality of an increased number of SD channels along with it.

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It was my understanding that the studios never wanted HD in the first place: what they really wanted was multichannelling, so that they could stream more advertising into homes; however HD was foisted onto them.

Well, they seem to have got what they wanted by stealth: reducing HD to a Claytons version and the quality of an increased number of SD channels along with it.

The "studios" are in Hollywood and had little or nothing to do with the digital TV regime lobbying in 1999-2000 (and again in 2005-6) between FTAs, pay TV & News Corp's papers, manufacturers & retailers (on either side of the fence), ABC and smaller independent media.

About the only thing Hollywood decided during that time was that the global interchange format would be 1080p24, which conveniently meant 1080pSF25 (1080i50) for us, and 1080pSF24 (1080i60) for North America.

Edited by ckent
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All I know is that the FTA channels are shooting themselves in the foot a bit with this ditching of HD. I am almost at the point of considering FoxtelHD, and I had never seriously considered pay tv ever before in my life!

I was in Japan in April, and it made me cry... all their channels are HD there (but crap variety/talk show content... but anyway...), and lets not talk about how efficient their trains were and how wonderfully quick & efficient the Shinkansen is....

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Hiaz.. Just saw the GEM info on gizmodo.. Disappointed...

Er, tony, they're still going to have HD channels; they'll just be three different ones (7mate, GEM, ONE).

I think tony meant the Japan stations are always HD... not sporadic like the ones we get here...

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