Panasonic Viera Th-p54v20a

[mikeathome]

Would some other owners mind telling me please, if you stick the EPG guide up and look at it from your normal viewing distance, does it look like a perfectly static image to you or does it flicker like hell ?

Trying to work out if it's just my set, have tried to ignore it / get used to it but it's not happening, TV / bluray source doesn't matter, any bright-ish scene has a noticeable and distracting flicker to my eyes.

Mine has only been home for a few days but I don't see even the slightest evidence of flicker when I look at the EPG. Just using the standard picture settings at present.

[osmodiar]

Ok thanks, anyone else..? Maybe watch it for a few days under different circumstances and tell me if you end up noticing it ?

If a few people tell me there 54v20's have no noticeable flicker i'll get a tech to come and look at mine, because it's quite noticeable on mine, not happy with it.

[Owen]

Some people don’t notice flicker on Plasmas while others do on the exact same TV, it all comes down to the individual’s eye – brain perception.

Plasmas by nature flicker and I see it on most models but it’s usually not bad enough to bother me. Of the sets I have looked at lately the VT20 had the worst flicker but the picture was set very bright which makes flicker more noticeable.

If you are susceptible to flicker LCD is the solution, LCD cant flicker.

[MLXXX]

Some people don’t notice flicker on Plasmas while others do on the exact same TV, it all comes down to the individual’s eye – brain perception.

This is very true.

Recently I watched a squash final being played on a glass backed court. I was seated high up. The ball strobed for my eyesight whenever it was moving fast, and particularly when moving across rather than up and down the court. The lighting over the court consisted of about 9 sets of twin fluorescent tubes, such as are commonplace in offices.

I spoke to several people about it on the night, including an ex world top 10 player, and none of them had noticed the strobing of the squash ball on that court. This reinforces my impression I am more sensitive to flicker than the average person.

International rules about squash court lighting make reference to the need to avoid stroboscopic effects. Page 1 of a TECHNICAL INFORMATION SHEET from England Squash refers to high frequency lighting eliminating the effect:

The majority of existing courts will have the conventional twin tube 1800mm long (6ft) fittings using the 38mm diameter Argon filled 75/85W tubes. Replacement tubes and fittings for this type are available. Later fittings use the Krypton filled 1800mm 70W tubes. Fluorescent halophosphate 50HZ tubes lose their efficiency on the basis of 2% - 6% reduction in light output for every 1000 hours they are in use. ...

...

In order to provide a more efficient form of lighting combined with savings in running costs, typically 20% to 30%, consideration should be given to using high frequency lamps and control gear. This type of lighting works at 28000HZ (cycles per second) and completely eliminates the strobe effect.

However I am not as as sensitive to flicker as reboot. This is what he said in another thread:

I'm prone to seeing plasma flicker, but as I have said before, mainly on the Panasonic models for some reason.

I don't know what it is about Panasonic plasma's that are different to other plasma's that make it so much more visible to me.

I can walk into any store and pick them out from any distance.

I suspect that osmodiar is very sensitive to flicker and if gets a technician to inspect his set, the technician will likely not be able to notice any flickering on the TV guide.

Osmodiar, I suggest you get a friend to look at your set. If they cannot see the flicker, it is almost certainly case of your being unusually sensitive to it.

I can see a little bit of flicker on my 3D Panasonic plasma (p50vt20a) when viewing the TV Guide if I scroll down to where there are no entries. I see prominent flicker when watching live TV and engaging Intelligent Frame Creation, or watching a 24fps Blu-ray and engaging 24p Smooth Film.

Edited September 14, 2010 by MLXXX

[osmodiar]

Yeah with the EPG it's the plain grey area behind the entires that i'm noticing it in, and similarly with broadcast or source content it's the backgrounds / wide angle shots that are distracting.

Every time I notice it i'm reminded that i'm watching a screen rather than being immersed in the content. Didn't know this was a plasma issue, guess i'll have to look into led/lcd next time.

[Owen]

While flicker is a generic Plasma issue some are much better than others, so don’t lump them all together. Have a look at other models and brands as the Panasonic V20 is not the best as far as flicker is concerned.

[Jase__9]

i bought the p54v20 today and definitely on foxtel component the SD playback isn't quite as good as i'm used to, it's a little softer on the edges actually and the colours are also not as sharp. having said that, the HD playback is definitely a lot better than the 50c7000 i was looking at side by side on monsters vs aliens.

[Owen]

Never ever use animated content to judge picture quality.

[mikeathome]

Ok thanks, anyone else..? Maybe watch it for a few days under different circumstances and tell me if you end up noticing it ?

If a few people tell me there 54v20's have no noticeable flicker i'll get a tech to come and look at mine, because it's quite noticeable on mine, not happy with it.

So far I have had it home for a couple of weeks and have seen no evidence of flicker myself. During that time I have shown the EPG to 14 different people - family and friends - and nobody sees flicker. If I were you I would try to look at another unit somewhere to see if you are sensitive or whether its a problem with your unit.

[CCRider]

Never ever use animated content to judge picture quality.

Totally agree.

You'll find that MvA would have been converted to 2d from the 3d BR playing. This is a common trick retaillers do to shift the overpriced Pana products.

Edited September 26, 2010 by CC Rider

[Owen]

If I were you I would try to look at another unit somewhere to see if you are sensitive or whether its a problem with your unit.

Flicker is not due to a defect but to design choices therefore it affects all panels, some people can see it and others cant. I can see it on a normal picture not just a menu, the fast phosphors required for 3D operation are mostly responsible.

[Jase__9]

yeah the mva wasnt the best test, but im pleased that its got most of the features apart from 3D, as the crosstalk of the samsung c7000 was quite bad on the AFL yesterday. I'm finding it hard to connect through DLNA but i guess my ps3 does most of the source work anyway. !

[osmodiar]

So far I have had it home for a couple of weeks and have seen no evidence of flicker myself. During that time I have shown the EPG to 14 different people - family and friends - and nobody sees flicker. If I were you I would try to look at another unit somewhere to see if you are sensitive or whether its a problem with your unit.

Ok thanks for that, I will try and check one out in a store next time i'm near one and pop the epg up to see if it looks the same on another 54v20. Sounds like i'm just overly sensitive to it but i'd like to be sure..

Cheers

[Riv39]

Well after some research I bit the bullet and bought one of these today for the family room. SD looked a little soft in the showroom but the HD was excellent and at $2000 delivered including 5yr replacement warranty it will do me.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Riv39

[diesel]

...for a few months, and then you'll start to yearn for the 65"

[Riv39]

...for a few months, and then you'll start to yearn for the 65"

Hey Mick, I still got the PJ and the 110" screen ....back to the Panny, this set is rock solid, particularly in native HD, floating blacks they may be there but I can't see it nor the flicker issue and as for buzz what buzz this set is DEAD silent. Suffice to say I'm impressed for for what you get for the price. I still prefer my PJ but hey I'll watch a movie with the kids anytime on the Panny, the blacks are superb!

Edited October 17, 2010 by Riv39

[workhorse]

Hello all, has anybody noticed any banding (rainbow effect) on the Pana 54V20?. Its really annoying and it's affecting both BDs, DVDs and normal TV. It's also got the latest firmware on it. Have only had since 18/09/2010. I don't have this issue with my Rear pro I had and my current Sammy LCD.

Look forward to some feedback,

Kevin

[Riv39]

Hello all, has anybody noticed any banding (rainbow effect) on the Pana 54V20?. Its really annoying and it's affecting both BDs, DVDs and normal TV. It's also got the latest firmware on it. Have only had since 18/09/2010. I don't have this issue with my Rear pro I had and my current Sammy LCD.

Look forward to some feedback,

Kevin

I noticed this the other day, I think it is normal for this set (and possibly other Plasma displays). I have only seen it once after a fairly long session of watching so not sure whether eye strain adds to the likelyhood of seeing it. No one else in the family has noticed it so I gather this is a little like RBE with DLP in that only some people see it. I have only noticed this on SD material (Top Gear Australia) to date.

Have a read of this thread on the AVForums site where the consensus seems that it is posterisation

Edited October 21, 2010 by Riv39

[Owen]

Colour banding (posterization) and rainbow (RBE) are totally different.

Panasonic plasmas are prone to colour banding and all Plasmas can show RBE if the viewer is suseptable.

[Riv39]

Colour banding (posterization) and rainbow (RBE) are totally different.

Panasonic plasmas are prone to colour banding and all Plasmas can show RBE if the viewer is suseptable.

Thanks Owen for the clarification, I was only repeating what the other Forum said although there was some lengthy discussion there over the actual cause of RBE. I guess like DLP I must be one of those who is susceptible to RBE. Touch wood it has only been once thus far for a very short time watching Top Gear Aus the other night. Curious that I have never seen RBE on a Plasma before owning my own including watching them at length at the showrooms.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Riv39

[workhorse]

Colour banding (posterization) and rainbow (RBE) are totally different.

Panasonic plasmas are prone to colour banding and all Plasmas can show RBE if the viewer is suseptable.

Thanks Owen for your clarification. I'm not too savvy in this area. This is my first ever plasma tv. Somehow I always thought from what the sales people, reviews, and forums have said about plasma having better blacks and so forth. Too each their own I suppose. I feel like selling this TV now and buying myself another LCD panel. I was also lured in by the price of this tv set compared to and equivalent size LCD, which would have been at least 1.5K more.

[Pfeff]

Have you guys got IFC on or off? I saw some one night on my 58" VT during the Delhi games during the ladies high jump (only time I'd noticed it) after I was experimenting with IFC off. Turned it back on and colour banding dissappeared. Replayed same scene over a few times. IFC off saw banding, on, no banding. Let us know if that makes any difference for you.

[Riv39]

Have you guys got IFC on or off? I saw some one night on my 58" VT during the Delhi games during the ladies high jump (only time I'd noticed it) after I was experimenting with IFC off. Turned it back on and colour banding dissappeared. Replayed same scene over a few times. IFC off saw banding, on, no banding. Let us know if that makes any difference for you.

Thanks for the tip but it's not the banding that I saw it was Plasma RBE. I have only seen this once thus far so not enough to worry me and the TV is mostly used by the kids as I use my PJ as my primary viewing device.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Riv39

[Owen]

Thanks Owen for your clarification. I'm not too savvy in this area. This is my first ever plasma tv. Somehow I always thought from what the sales people, reviews, and forums have said about plasma having better blacks and so forth. Too each their own I suppose. I feel like selling this TV now and buying myself another LCD panel. I was also lured in by the price of this tv set compared to and equivalent size LCD, which would have been at least 1.5K more.

The faster phosphors on 3D Plasmas have the potential to make RBE worse for those unfortunate enough to be able to see it. I am not susceptible to RBE but flicker on the VT20 is obvious to me and that to is related to faster phosphors.

Have a good look at the 2D only Panasonic's and the Samsung Plasmas, you may find a model that works for you.

[skin]

The faster phosphors on 3D Plasmas have the potential to make RBE worse for those unfortunate enough to be able to see it. I am not susceptible to RBE but flicker on the VT20 is obvious to me and that to is related to faster phosphors.

Have a good look at the 2D only Panasonic's and the Samsung Plasmas, you may find a model that works for you.

The faster phosphors are advertised as an advantage but it seems like they cause more problems to me.

I am seriously considering the 65inch S series Plasma over the VT now.

I just wish someone would write a detailed review of the S or a comparison of the S to the VT.

Off topic a bit, do the new Panasonic TVs have numbers in the settings menus now or are they still just plain bars?

Edited October 22, 2010 by skinXBWAU