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snorri

Panasonic Plasma Time Bombs?

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Well, wait till something manifests first I guess :ninja:.. No point calling Panasonic to confirm otherwise... Not trying to stir the pot or something, as I have no vested interests. However, US sets for all we know may be entirely different (use different firmware, different properties to apply to rules to different countries, etc)..

Not saying this problem don't exist, but IMO the best solution to approach this is to confirm 100% that local sets have this problem, find out the number of people involved and then get to Panasonic. A more systematic apporach I guess...

I believe at least a member here have this problem? To confirm take a light reading (in a totally dark room), or maybe some pictures from a DSLR (prob use no metering?)... Once there is something concrete, follow it up with Panasonic. That's the worse case scenario..

Best case scenerio is of coz the problem is US only.

Makes one think twice about going after name brands huh? :ninja::P

Maybe some of the concerned people should go around their local retailers and look at the demo units that in many cases will have been on show for many hours/weeks past the 1000 hours mark.

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Well, wait till something manifests first I guess :ninja:.. No point calling Panasonic to confirm otherwise... Not trying to stir the pot or something, as I have no vested interests. However, US sets for all we know may be entirely different (use different firmware, different properties to apply to rules to different countries, etc)..

Not saying this problem don't exist, but IMO the best solution to approach this is to confirm 100% that local sets have this problem, find out the number of people involved and then get to Panasonic. A more systematic apporach I guess...

I believe at least a member here have this problem? To confirm take a light reading (in a totally dark room), or maybe some pictures from a DSLR (prob use no metering?)... Once there is something concrete, follow it up with Panasonic. That's the worse case scenario..

Best case scenerio is of coz the problem is US only.

Makes one think twice about going after name brands huh? :ninja::P

I agree that one shouldnt complain about an issue they do not have, though if there were sufficient contibutors in Australia with the problem I would certainly be raising concerns directly with Panasonic.

As for the international variations, I can of course only make assumptions (which I realize have no validity). However for things such as the THX colour cast, I would be massively suprised if the aspects of the Firmware controling the picture set up was different from one country to the next. Firstly 'why' make it different. Secondly THX is an international standard. It is my belief that the addition and removal of features from one region to the next, may necessitate different firmware BUT the elements of firmware that control identical features would be the same. I know that many people do not report this potential problem, but note how few people here seem to have pre-august V10 panels. On top of which those of us that do may well still be impressed by what is a 'good' picture, but it doesnt mean it is not faulty. . (This is partly bourne out by some of the comments made on the US site from individuals that have applied the US 'fix'. I get the feeling that some of these guys were not previously "unhappy" but now realize that they were in fact missing out on an even better picture).

Sorry.. rambled off on a tangent a bit there

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On top of which those of us that do may well still be impressed by what is a 'good' picture, but it doesnt mean it is not faulty. . (This is partly bourne out by some of the comments made on the US site from individuals that have applied the US 'fix'. I get the feeling that some of these guys were not previously "unhappy" but now realize that they were in fact missing out on an even better picture).

Sorry.. rambled off on a tangent a bit there

Looking briefly at the US posts, and the pics supplied (assumed they're taken correctly), the problem will be noticeable.. So don't worry... :D If this problem is real, you can't miss it (don't rely on black borders on movies though, as some are really grey)...

Life is short, so enjoy the TV, until the problem comes up (if it ever). i.e. be alert, not alarmed.

TBH even if Panasonic AU has a firmware out, unless you're seeing this problem, I would advise against updating anyway (esp in this case). Don't try to fix anything that's not broken.. For all you know power might go out while you're in the middle of the upgrade. :ninja:

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Looking briefly at the US posts, and the pics supplied (assumed they're taken correctly), the problem will be noticeable.. So don't worry... :D If this problem is real, you can't miss it (don't rely on black borders on movies though, as some are really grey)...

Life is short, so enjoy the TV, until the problem comes up (if it ever). i.e. be alert, not alarmed.

TBH even if Panasonic AU has a firmware out, unless you're seeing this problem, I would advise against updating anyway (esp in this case). Don't try to fix anything that's not broken.. For all you know power might go out while you're in the middle of the upgrade. :ninja:

I think you have missed my points by a few yards treblid.

I have consistently stated that I do not believe I have "This" (Black Levels) problem. I did - admitedly on a tangent - comment upon the THX colour cast problem, which I 'do' believe I have, and it is these threads I just refferred to.

If you looked at the US sites for the rising black problem, then I would agree that some of the comparison shots make it look noticable, but in practice I would imagine it would depend gradual the change was as to how quickly you'd pick it up. Yes there are many commenting how they have noticeds a sudden difference, but one cant help feel a percentage are saying that now there has been a potential problem raised. Others are merely confirming it as they have calibration tools available.

If you looked at the threads regrding the THX issue, then also I would agree the comparisons are quite definative, but would suggest that only reading through briefly you would have missed the point I made before, which is that even some of those that have applied the fix were probably unaware that they had a problem, even though they now feekl there picture is better. Dont forget that the THX problem isnt one that manifests over time, but one that is there from outset for the effected sets, so there is no "point of comparison".

Anyway, there are two issues.. the black levels one that is the subject of this thread, and the THX one that I - regretably - raised in my prior post.

Also, look back at my prior posts. You picked up on mine when I was merely advising another poster that there probably wasnt the information around that they wanted. Not to complain about black levels on my own set, so perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

Edited by BadBeachBoy

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I think you have missed my points by a few yards treblid.

Yup, we prob aren't on the same freq.. :D This thread to me has more questions than answers...

Oh well, good luck at getting to the bottom of this..

Me will butt out again.. :P Got work to do.. :(

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Let's face it folks, who wants a Plasma that will last 66 years even if the black levels don't change ?

How would you ever be able to justify a replacement to the wife and kids (hopefully they would have moved out by then) if this 'thing' never wore out ?

In that time hopefully, Panasonic may have developed a CinemaScope screen that would have built-in, motorized sliding panels to accommodate the different screen formats. Now that would be a plasma worth having.

The truth is, if you've had your plasma for more than a year incurring normal use then it is very unlikely that anything abnormal other than the usual 'wear and tear ' is ever going to prevail upon it.

C.M

Edited by Tweet

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I know that many people do not report this potential problem, but note how few people here seem to have pre-august V10 panels.

I guess I fall into pre-August V10 panels.

Built date: July 2009

Software Vers: 4200 -10000

Hours usage: 01511:30 Much less than I thought. I guesstimated around 2300 hrs :rolleyes:

I've found no deterioration with my black levels to date, so hopefully mine is ok.

I do have a what I call warm/orange push in THX.. and while this isn't a problem for me as I like warmer colours, I did raise it with Panasonic. No response to-date..

Update.. I now have a service call pending in next 2-3 days...

I mentioned that Panasonic US have released a firmware to fix this problem.... The guy almost jumped down the phone at me denying any knowledge .. a tad touchy he was :D

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I guess I fall into pre-August V10 panels.

Built date: July 2009

Software Vers: 4200 -10000

Hours usage: 01511:30 Much less than I thought. I guesstimated around 2300 hrs :rolleyes:

I've found no deterioration with my black levels to date, so hopefully mine is ok.

I do have a what I call warm/orange push in THX.. and while this isn't a problem for me as I like warmer colours, I did raise it with Panasonic. No response to-date..

Update.. I now have a service call pending in next 2-3 days...

I mentioned that Panasonic US have released a firmware to fix this problem.... The guy almost jumped down the phone at me denying any knowledge .. a tad touchy he was :D

I really don't understand that behaviour. it's the same freaking company. its like they have been given explicit instructions to deny, deny, deny.

don't think it really gets them anywhere.

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I really don't understand that behaviour. it's the same freaking company. its like they have been given explicit instructions to deny, deny, deny.

don't think it really gets them anywhere.

Well we could always start a Poll to see how many Panasonic plasma users have actually experienced significant 'greying of the blacks' and get a count. Otherwise this thread is like a dog chasing its tail and its simply speculation without substantiated fact.

C.M

Edited by Tweet

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Well we could always start a Poll to see how many Panasonic plasma users have actually experienced significant 'greying of the blacks' and get a count. Otherwise this thread is like a dog chasing its tail and its simply speculation without substantiated fact.

C.M

yeah but the AVS forum is well and truly past chasing it's tail, I subscribe to the physics that governs the southern half of the world must be the same as the physics that governs the northern half.

None 'down below' (including Panasonic themselves) has offered anything of substance in explanation why our sets hold some kind of magical quality, by all accounts so far even the European sets have the same problem.

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I really don't understand that behaviour. it's the same freaking company. its like they have been given explicit instructions to deny, deny, deny.

don't think it really gets them anywhere.

Not good.... but probably the guy has had it up to wherever with calls about this and he probably has NO information and I can tell you , years ago I worked for the Australian Sales side of another Japanese Electronics company and they will not tell the field anything until they have all the facts in. Loss of face is a real big deal to them.

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Not good.... but probably the guy has had it up to wherever with calls about this and he probably has NO information and I can tell you , years ago I worked for the Australian Sales side of another Japanese Electronics company and they will not tell the field anything until they have all the facts in. Loss of face is a real big deal to them.

+1

Seems always the case.

The fact that Pana USA is working on it is a positive sign. Any fixes will eventually filter down here.

Those of us who experienced the fiasco with the pio lx71 and 51fd firmware issues are well aware of this fact.

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deny, deny, deny.

Unfortunately they may get denied too. In the form of sales.

I'm very happy to have read about this issue before I bought, but I am grumpy because we were all set to buy a V10 last weekend. But I'm not willing to take a $2500 punt on a known issue. I hope Panasonic get to the bottom of this fast, especially for everyone who already own these panels. And if they don't, I hope that doesn't mean they can't, because that leaves a cloud over the 2010 models...

Looks like my 68cm Panny CRT (with great blacks after 10 years!) will have to keep on trucking for a little while longer.

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Unfortunately they may get denied too. In the form of sales.

I'm very happy to have read about this issue before I bought, but I am grumpy because we were all set to buy a V10 last weekend. But I'm not willing to take a $2500 punt on a known issue. I hope Panasonic get to the bottom of this fast, especially for everyone who already own these panels. And if they don't, I hope that doesn't mean they can't, because that leaves a cloud over the 2010 models...

Looks like my 68cm Panny CRT (with great blacks after 10 years!) will have to keep on trucking for a little while longer.

I'm happy enough that it will either be fixed by a firmware update, or if not, fixed under warranty (and it must be), or at least temporarily fixed by doing a full reset. I haven't purchased yet, either, but based on this I don't consider it a gamble.

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I guess I fall into pre-August V10 panels.

Built date: July 2009

Software Vers: 4200 -10000

Hours usage: 01511:30 Much less than I thought. I guesstimated around 2300 hrs :rolleyes:

I've found no deterioration with my black levels to date, so hopefully mine is ok.

I do have a what I call warm/orange push in THX.. and while this isn't a problem for me as I like warmer colours, I did raise it with Panasonic. No response to-date..

Update.. I now have a service call pending in next 2-3 days...

I mentioned that Panasonic US have released a firmware to fix this problem.... The guy almost jumped down the phone at me denying any knowledge .. a tad touchy he was :D

Dont wish to appear touchy myself, but the deterioration doesnt have anything to do with the "pre-august panel" statement, but does have to do with the hours usage, as you have also stated.

Be interested to know what is said about the THX mode by the service guy. Im guessing that he will not be armed with any information regarding THX issues. As such I would doubt even if there is a problem from the intended spec (which, again, Im not saying there is) I think he would say there is no problem anyway. As I have posted myself before, my enquiry to panny received a response that stated a greenish / yellow cast is "part of the THX spec". I had to laugh, as the respondent obviously has no idea what I am actually looking at. The screen could be completely green and yellow for all he knew, but he was nonetheless happy to give such an off the cuff diagnosis. Equally if I were an expert, - which I appreciate I am not, but again he doesnt know - then by implication I would be stating that the cast was Over and Above that expected, so I am at a loss how they can state the things they do.

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Dont wish to appear touchy myself, but the deterioration doesnt have anything to do with the "pre-august panel" statement, but does have to do with the hours usage, as you have also stated.

Sorry you're little touchy.. but my reply was inclusive of your comment about pre-Aug 09 V10s regarding THX problem.

I've read hundreds of pages re these two topics and trying to decipher fact from philosophising is somewhat difficult.

All I've tried to do was be succinct and factual, as concerned owners reading this thread must be pulling their hair out trying to digest all this "information"

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Let's face it folks, who wants a Plasma that will last 66 years even if the black levels don't change ?

How would you ever be able to justify a replacement to the wife and kids (hopefully they would have moved out by then) if this 'thing' never wore out ?

In that time hopefully, Panasonic may have developed a CinemaScope screen that would have built-in, motorized sliding panels to accommodate the different screen formats. Now that would be a plasma worth having.

The truth is, if you've had your plasma for more than a year incurring normal use then it is very unlikely that anything abnormal other than the usual 'wear and tear ' is ever going to prevail upon it.

C.M

Plus one.......+1

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Looks like Panasonic Australia are staying tightliped on both the 'Rising Black Level' issue & the 'THX' issue. This is the email response I got when I queried them on wether or not Australian sets are affected, & if so, when would we be likely see a fw update:

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Panasonic Australia with your email.

There is currently no firmware updates available for the TH-P50V10A for the issues you have requested. If you are experiencing these issues, your product will need to be inspected by an Authorised Service Centre.

Kind regards,

Paul

PanasonicCustomer Care

132 600

They didn't answer either question! A yes or no would have been nice, but I guess I really didn't expect them to own up to anything.

Andys.

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They didn't answer either question! A yes or no would have been nice, but I guess I really didn't expect them to own up to anything.

Andys.

Not unlike PM Krudd :P

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They didn't answer either question! A yes or no would have been nice, but I guess I really didn't expect them to own up to anything.

Or perhaps the problem has not raised its ugly head here in Oz, and if you have a problem, it's a rarity,

At least they implied they would look at it if you had an issue. :mellow:

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Looks like Panasonic Australia are staying tightliped on both the 'Rising Black Level' issue & the 'THX' issue. This is the email response I got when I queried them on wether or not Australian sets are affected, & if so, when would we be likely see a fw update:

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Panasonic Australia with your email.

There is currently no firmware updates available for the TH-P50V10A for the issues you have requested. If you are experiencing these issues, your product will need to be inspected by an Authorised Service Centre.

Kind regards,

Paul

PanasonicCustomer Care

132 600

They didn't answer either question! A yes or no would have been nice, but I guess I really didn't expect them to own up to anything.

Andys.

Hey that's exactly the same response, word for word, that I received too, except my model was the G10A. I replied immediately and told them that they had not answered my question. So, now just waiting for the next response.

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Hey that's exactly the same response, word for word, that I received too, except my model was the G10A. I replied immediately and told them that they had not answered my question. So, now just waiting for the next response.

I have consistently asked them the same questions about this and previous issues, and consistently pointed out that they never answer my question... and they continue not to answer.

I know I am not very clear with what I have written in the past (e.g. GP11's response to mine.. I was being a little tounge in cheek, as he had used the term 'touchy' in his previous post), but anyway..

I would agree it is strongly possible that the panels here do not have the same problems. BUT it is equally possible (and in my own mind - i.e. not trying to state a fact or be influential - I would believe certain problems were very likely to be common.

They come out of the same factory after all. In the states though, by the fact of sheer numbers, they will have more people that will have verified the performance of thier panel than here. Lets not forget that there are a large number of people in the US that do not appear to notice the problem either, but the vocal few that do are still a large number. As such the current position of Panasonic in the US is that they have admitted some problems BUT it still took a while, even with the numbers involved.

Despite not being able to verify, I for one believe that at least the THX problem is present on my screen. It has been difficult to verbalise here though, as I get responses such as "why did I buy the tv if it is cr@p. But put simply, I dont think it is cr@p... in fact I really like THX mode.. This doesnt mean that I dont think it could be better, nor does it mean that the colour cast is not present. Put it this way... if you gave me a Big Mac, and a perfectly prepared and cooked sirloin steak, I'd still MUCH prefer the steak, even if it had just a little too much salt.... it doesnt mean it cr@p, but nor does it mean its as it should be.

Of course, for the price of the steak you probably wouldnt return it (though some might) but for the price of the tv, I really think panasonic needs to be more up front.

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Hey that's exactly the same response, word for word, that I received too, except my model was the G10A. I replied immediately and told them that they had not answered my question. So, now just waiting for the next response.

I've done exactly the same thing. The longer they hold out and pussyfoot around the questions (like they're doing), the more you start to think these issues do infact exist on the Australian models. It's pretty easy to say no they don't exist, but I guess a lot harder to say yes and deal with the consequences.

Andy.

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I've done exactly the same thing. The longer they hold out and pussyfoot around the questions (like they're doing), the more you start to think these issues do infact exist on the Australian models. It's pretty easy to say no they don't exist, but I guess a lot harder to say yes and deal with the consequences.

Andy.

I think that the US AVS forum folk will pursue this till it is resolved.

I recall the "dog with a bone" attitude when Pio announced the discontinuation with plasma panels and the blu ray players were waiting on a fw update so they could send DTS MA via hdmi and analogue.

Once it is resolved there then the fix will be made available to OZ,

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I have only one way of measuring it that I can think of (without buying a testing rig) - a Canon EOS dSLR set at a certain exposure at a certain ISO with tight control on the amount of external light.

I use a HD test card for setting up monitors and TV’s.

It will easily allow you to see if the blacks on your TV are changing over time.

http://www.descargasvideoedicion.org/.desc...d-test-card.png

Just save to hard disk and transfer to SD card then insert card into Panasonic.

This explains what the patterns on the test card mean and how to make use of them when adjusting the TV controls.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/200...from_the_h.html

Here is a pic of the test card being displayed on a Panasonic TV.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/rec.../HDtestcard.jpg

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