Panasonic Dmr-bw780 & Bw880 - Bluray Recorders,

[diesel]

Manual...there's a manual?

[Guest ABs2011]

Just ordered one of the 780s today to jump into Blu-ray capability in time for my new (and first) sub, an SVS pb13-ultra. A pet peeve from previous tuners is the number of steps to change aspect ratio to reduce risk of burn-in. How is the 780 for adjusting 4:3 input to fill the screen?

[Slater]

Just ordered one of the 780s today to jump into Blu-ray capability in time for my new (and first) sub, an SVS pb13-ultra. A pet peeve from previous tuners is the number of steps to change aspect ratio to reduce risk of burn-in. How is the 780 for adjusting 4:3 input to fill the screen?

easy as pie mate - one big fat button labelled "aspect"

mick, the manual is the thing you rest your coffee/beer on

[MickJT]

easy as pie mate - one big fat button labelled "aspect"

Just bought one of these (DMR-BW780) a few days ago.

There is no big fat button, or any button at all on the remote that says "Aspect". You press "Option", then go into "Aspect".

Anyway, so I have a few questions I want answered and a few things to say about this. Opinions please!

1) Audio-sync is very slightly out, on everything, well, Blu-Ray's and TV. It's not by much, but it's there. This is via HDMI connection to a TV, through TV speakers. I've tried all audio options, PCM, Bitstream, secondary audio on and off, etc.. etc.. TV is a 42LG70YD. Anyone else have slight audio-sync issues? I'm guessing most people here probably have Avatar. Stick in the Avatar BD, and skip to the scene where Jake Sully thinks "Nothing like a good ol' security briefing to put your mind at ease" and watch "Colonel Miles Quaritch" lips moving.

2) Regarding aspect, something I doubt i'd ever use, but I test everything anyway. I figured this probably only works on composite or component connections, so I tried both of those. The "zoom" mode doesn't work at all, not through composite, not through component, not when TV type set to 4:3, 16:9, Letterbox, Pan & Scan. Nothing. "Zoom" aspect just doesn't do a thing. Side-cut works however. The manual says "Zoom" only works when the TV type is set to 16:9, but alas, it doesn't. I've tried it with a DVD, and TV channels. Firmware is 1.20.

3) Self-authored Blu-Ray discs that have been burnt by myself will not play. These have been authored with TSmuxer. I guess the Panasonic players don't like BD-Video on BD-R or BD-RE's? Anyone else that can confirm this? Blu-Rays are so much better to burn to because of all the extra space. Hours of footage of various holidays, and a wedding. Works on the PS3. I think Nero is now able to make BD-AV discs? I will have to look into it. Does the PS3 play BD-AV? Do most Blu-Ray players play BD-AV? Hmm. Can you make menus on BD-AV?

TV recordings burn to BD-RE using the Panasonic recorder, play too fast in PowerDVD. Weird. I can play the .m2ts in VideoLAN or Windows Media Player but it's the raw data and doesn't show how i've edited or divided titles.

4) Doesn't seem to be any way to record direct to BD.

5) Doesn't seem to be any way to enable or have the unit recording the current channel in the background (live buffering) so you can rewind at any time.

and last but not least.

6) Channel 9, 90 and 99 in South Australia have an EPG issue. It'll show Now/Next and then all the information from midnight (or including any show that start before, but continues through midnight) onwards.

I.E The EPG for GO! might say I Dream Of Jeannie, then Bewitched, then nothing for 6 hours then "Home Shopping", just as an example. I'm going to contact both Nine and Panasonic about this. All of the other channels are fine. The EPG for 9/90/99 is fine on my LG TVs too.

So, opinions, comments?

Edit: After ringing around, I have answers for some of these. Regarding point "6", Nine are moving to MediaHub (like the ABC have) within a few months which will use different compression equipment and probably fix up the EPG issue. Panasonic and Nine currently both deny that they're doing anything wrong currently; They both say they're standards compliant, but hopefully it'll all be fixed up later this year.

Regarding point "2", the zoom option only works on disc content that is authored in a 4:3 format, for example old PAL DVDs.

Points "4" and "5", Panasonic say it's not supported by this model. I was pretty sure of that anyway, but wanted to confirm it.

Panasonic don't supply any HDD upgrade for money, either. They couldn't tell me if it's easy to replace the HDD yourself (after warranty period of course).

All other issues i'd like other people to comment on and tell me if they're experiencing the same issues or not. All in all, i'm liking the unit, i'm just interested about the audio-sync though.

Edited August 23, 2010 by MickJT

[Slater]

Just bought one of these (DMR-BW780) a few days ago.

There is no big fat button, or any button at all on the remote that says "Aspect". You press "Option", then go into "Aspect".

Anyway, so I have a few questions I want answered and a few things to say about this. Opinions please!

1) Audio-sync is very slightly out, on everything, well, Blu-Ray's and TV. It's not by much, but it's there. This is via HDMI connection to a TV, through TV speakers. I've tried all audio options, PCM, Bitstream, secondary audio on and off, etc.. etc.. TV is a 42LG70YD. Anyone else have slight audio-sync issues? I'm guessing most people here probably have Avatar. Stick in the Avatar BD, and skip to the scene where Jake Sully thinks "Nothing like a good ol' security briefing to put your mind at ease" and watch "Colonel Miles Quaritch" lips moving.

2) Regarding aspect, something I doubt i'd ever use, but I test everything anyway. I figured this probably only works on composite or component connections, so I tried both of those. The "zoom" mode doesn't work at all, not through composite, not through component, not when TV type set to 4:3, 16:9, Letterbox, Pan & Scan. Nothing. "Zoom" aspect just doesn't do a thing. Side-cut works however. The manual says "Zoom" only works when the TV type is set to 16:9, but alas, it doesn't. I've tried it with a DVD, and TV channels. Firmware is 1.20.

3) Self-authored Blu-Ray discs that have been burnt by myself will not play. These have been authored with TSmuxer. I guess the Panasonic players don't like BD-Video on BD-R or BD-RE's? Anyone else that can confirm this? Blu-Rays are so much better to burn to because of all the extra space. Hours of footage of various holidays, and a wedding. Works on the PS3. I think Nero is now able to make BD-AV discs? I will have to look into it. Does the PS3 play BD-AV? Do most Blu-Ray players play BD-AV? Hmm. Can you make menus on BD-AV?

TV recordings burn to BD-RE using the Panasonic recorder, play too fast in PowerDVD. Weird. I can play the .m2ts in VideoLAN or Windows Media Player but it's the raw data and doesn't show how i've edited or divided titles.

4) Doesn't seem to be any way to record direct to BD.

5) Doesn't seem to be any way to enable or have the unit recording the current channel in the background (live buffering) so you can rewind at any time.

and last but not least.

6) Channel 9, 90 and 99 in South Australia have an EPG issue. It'll show Now/Next and then all the information from midnight (or including any show that start before, but continues through midnight) onwards.

I.E The EPG for GO! might say I Dream Of Jeannie, then Bewitched, then nothing for 6 hours then "Home Shopping", just as an example. I'm going to contact both Nine and Panasonic about this. All of the other channels are fine. The EPG for 9/90/99 is fine on my LG TVs too.

So, opinions, comments?

Edit: After ringing around, I have answers for some of these. Regarding point "6", Nine are moving to MediaHub (like the ABC have) within a few months which will use different compression equipment and probably fix up the EPG issue. Panasonic and Nine currently both deny that they're doing anything wrong currently; They both say they're standards compliant, but hopefully it'll all be fixed up later this year.

Regarding point "2", the zoom option only works on disc content that is authored in a 4:3 format, for example old PAL DVDs.

Points "4" and "5", Panasonic say it's not supported by this model. I was pretty sure of that anyway, but wanted to confirm it.

Panasonic don't supply any HDD upgrade for money, either. They couldn't tell me if it's easy to replace the HDD yourself (after warranty period of course).

All other issues i'd like other people to comment on and tell me if they're experiencing the same issues or not. All in all, i'm liking the unit, i'm just interested about the audio-sync though.

Sorry Mick (and others) the "aspect" button is on my TV remote - this is a panasonic too - hence the temporary confusion!

1. audio sync is often a sound processing delay problem and more often than not occurs when amps are used. I have no synch probs when I let the sound come though my TV speakers.

2. same here - does pretty much nothing as far as I can see. FW:1.20 as well.

3. no idea as I have no BD drive in the PC. The 780/880 has to format a BD-R before it burns to it from the HDD if that gives you any hints. It does have a DV-in, but I'm sure the editing software on a PC would be more powerful than this unit.

4. Apparently not. I have not dug too deep - it does seem a bit weird that you cannot do this.

5. The ViERA link on the pana TV does have "direct TV recording" - that records from the TV's tuner - and give you the option to change to the recorder's tuner(s). I did start to record a show the other night and dropped in on it to watch it as it was recording. Oddly, the unit warned me that it was about to go into standby if I did not hit the "ok" button. Even though I did as it requested, it still went into standby.

I have tried the "pause live TV" - this works a treat, but there is no option to save the file.

6. weird - fine in Vic. do you have the 780/880's time set corrrectly? During initial setup, mine did not set the time correctly - this will affect the guide.

yeah, first thing I thought was upgrading the HDD> Japan's 780 has a 500 and their 880 has a 1TB HDD while we in Aus get the bargain basement 250 and 500 HDDs.

It does have a few shortcomings, but so far, I like it as well.

[MickJT]

Sorry Mick (and others) the "aspect" button is on my TV remote - this is a panasonic too - hence the temporary confusion!

OK, no problem!

1. audio sync is often a sound processing delay problem and more often than not occurs when amps are used. I have no synch probs when I let the sound come though my TV speakers.

I'm not sure if you read everything I said, or missed it, or something else. I'm not using an amp. It's all through the TV speakers. It's only very slightly out. The audio is a little bit before the video; Usually it's the other way around.

2. same here - does pretty much nothing as far as I can see. FW:1.20 as well.

You must have missed my edit. I know how this works now; Have a look at the bottom of the post.

3. no idea as I have no BD drive in the PC. The 780/880 has to format a BD-R before it burns to it from the HDD if that gives you any hints. It does have a DV-in, but I'm sure the editing software on a PC would be more powerful than this unit.

Nah, that doesn't help me. It just seems to reject burnt discs with a BD-V folder structure. As for BD-AV structures, I might be wrong about the unit supporting that, but i'll find out soon. I can also try burning just an .avi and some .mp3's and .jpg's to a blank BD and see what happens. Perhaps just a straight .m2ts file might work?

4. Apparently not. I have not dug too deep - it does seem a bit weird that you cannot do this.

Oh well.

6. weird - fine in Vic. do you have the 780/880's time set corrrectly? During initial setup, mine did not set the time correctly - this will affect the guide.

Again, I had edited my post with more information about this. Have a look. Panasonic and Nine are both aware of the issue but won't say it's their fault. However, it'll end up being fixed because of their equipment change in the next few months. My timezone is set up properly.

yeah, first thing I thought was upgrading the HDD> Japan's 780 has a 500 and their 880 has a 1TB HDD while we in Aus get the bargain basement 250 and 500 HDDs.

If you're game to open it up, i'd be interested in knowing what connections it uses, the size of the HDD, brand/model/make, and if you're successful in getting another HDD working in there. Also info on any pesky stickers.

It does have a few shortcomings, but so far, I like it as well.

Yeah, it's not too bad. Just thinking about the audio-sync thing, it's not a huge delay, just minor. Still considering if i'm going to do anything about it. Chances are i'll end up buying an amp (I do have a really old Prologic system as it is, but not using it) and as far as I know, delay adjustment is a common feature on modern home theatre systems / amplifiers these days, am I right?

[Slater]

If you're game to open it up, i'd be interested in knowing what connections it uses, the size of the HDD, brand/model/make, and if you're successful in getting another HDD working in there. Also info on any pesky stickers.

Yeah, it's not too bad. Just thinking about the audio-sync thing, it's not a huge delay, just minor. Still considering if i'm going to do anything about it. Chances are i'll end up buying an amp (I do have a really old Prologic system as it is, but not using it) and as far as I know, delay adjustment is a common feature on modern home theatre systems / amplifiers these days, am I right?

Sorry Mick I must have missed your edits.

I did read that you had it directly to your TV - just thinking out loud when I mentioned that it was a processing issue.

I wont be opening it up until the warranty is well and truly finished, but I'm fairly sure they are 3.5'' sata drives. From past (Sony) experience, you need to get into the service menu to format the new drive once you've dropped one in. Having said that, I think I saw a "format HDD" somewhere in the panasonic menu

[stickman76]

Hey people, Have just purchased my BW880 and am a bit mixed with it.

1. Playes BD and upscales DVD really well although it doesn't like too many scratches. It also doesn't play my region 2 DVD's, I am goig to check with Panasonic about my options.

2. Records well and plays back great. I found it doesn't always accept a program to record from the guide. So I have had to manually do the timer recordings.

I did have trouble with receiving a lot of the channels. The TV gets them all and I thought I had a dud. Untill I remembered that a strong signal is bad too. I still have my vcr and just sent the aerial through it and then to the BW880 and then to the TV. Now gets all channels in pristine condition.

On the down side.

1. The menu's are a bit poor.

2. I don't like how minor scratches can still effect the movie. You would think other machines doen't have this problem, why does panasonic still do?

3. Telling the machine to record a program from the guide responds with a "Why isn't this working" look to end up doing it manually.

4. The remote functions for setting up channel favourites are different to my Panasonic TV remote when doing the same thing on my Panasonic plasma.

5. The power and eject buttons need to swap position. Every other device (e.g. PC) has the eject button right beside the DVD tray.

6. Yes it does seem slow on a lot of functions. But I can live with that.

Every previous panasonic device I have ever owned has been briliant and I become a big fan. Hence purchasing the BW880. But I am a bit dissapointed with this one. Mabey it's because they have tried to do so many things in one box. I haven't tried a USB HDD yet as I don't have one formatted to FAT32. I have looked and you can't get one of 128GB capacity anymore.

I will let you know of my progress.

Thanks too all for your time and effort to posting on this forum.

[diesel]

Hey people, Have just purchased my BW880 and am a bit mixed with it.

1. It also doesn't play my region 2 DVD's, I am going to check with Panasonic about my options.

Panasonic units are usually region free for DVDs. People say they have a sticker on the box or unit saying something like "Checked by Panasonic Australia"

2. Records well and plays back great. I found it doesn't always accept a program to record from the guide. So I have had to manually do the timer recordings.

More information required. What buttons are you pressing to set a timer from the EPG?

[MickJT]

Was just thinking wouldn't it be great if a PVR could have twin tuners but still record 4 channels at once, or 3 channels and watch another, so long as you're only tuning to two frequencies.

I.E 7, 7TWO, 9 and GO! You only need a twin tuner for that. I don't know of any software program that can use a twin-tuner card/usb stick that way, or any standalone unit that can do that.

Hell, you could record 4 channels and watch a 5th (7, 7TWO, 7MATE and 9 recording, and watch GO!)

[wheelz]

2. Records well and plays back great. I found it doesn't always accept a program to record from the guide. So I have had to manually do the timer recordings.

Make sure that at least 1 of your recordings is in DR mode,tho i record everything in DR mode.

[stickman76]

Panasonic units are usually region free for DVDs. People say they have a sticker on the box or unit saying something like "Checked by Panasonic Australia"

More information required. What buttons are you pressing to set a timer from the EPG?

The box says it is region 4 only. I rang Harvey Norman and they said to call Panasonic. Will let you know.

I went through the function menu - 'TV guide recording', or 'Guide' highlight the program and pressesd 'OK', As it is stated in the manual, and no responce from the BW880. Since then I have noticed Channel '9' and 'GO' EPG have been a git hit and miss (sometimes blank) since getting the BW880. This fault only occured on channel '9' and 'GO'. The other channels work fine and record fine using the same proceedure. The TV has no problems with the EPG from '9' or 'GO'. I reside in Warwick QLD if that helps.

Edited August 24, 2010 by stickman76

[stickman76]

The box says it is region 4 only. I rang Harvey Norman and they said to call Panasonic. Will let you know.

Rang Panasonic and they said if you can't exchange it for a region free one from your retailer, take it to an authorised Panasonic Service Centre while under warranty with your purchase receipt and they will fix it at no charge.

Things are looking up.

Time to take a deep breath in and out.....

[diesel]

anyuta SPAM reported!

...Now back OT

Was just thinking wouldn't it be great if a PVR could have twin tuners but still record 4 channels at once, or 3 channels and watch another, so long as you're only tuning to two frequencies.

I.E 7, 7TWO, 9 and GO! You only need a twin tuner for that. I don't know of any software program that can use a twin-tuner card/usb stick that way, or any standalone unit that can do that.

The newer Topfield units are the only ones I know that can achieve Quad recording (limited to 2 services) by using it's twin tuners.

Some units (eg Beyonwiz) allow you to channel surf if you are recording two shows from the 1 service - eg record CH7 and 7Two, and still channel surf with the other tuner

[dlb99]

Question,

Can HD recordings burned to BD-RE be easily dumped onto a PC/NAS?

I've used a Panasonic DVD-Recorder to burn to DVD-RAM then dumped those recordings to PC via TMPGEnc Authoring Works (formally DVD Author) quite simply (as MPG2 files) for many years. I'm now interested in doing the same for HD content.

Can I follow the same procedures with these new recorders?

Or, is HD dump to PC more tricky?

How do people move their HD content out of these new recorders?

Any knowledge would be appreciated, thanks,

Dennis.

[MickJT]

I gave Authoring Works a go at authoring a Blu-Ray disc, and it worked! Menus and all.

[dlb99]

I gave Authoring Works a go at authoring a Blu-Ray disc, and it worked! Menus and all.

Ok,

Did you use HD content recorded on the Panasonic as the source for Authoring Works?

Basically, do you burn a BD-RE (or BD-R) on the Panasonic, then load that content on a PC running Authoring Works?

Is "yes", that would be really good news.

A part of me still wonders whether HD copy-once protection kicks in somewhere.

Dennis.

[bluezone]

I currently have a Topfield 7000 (the buggy one with the regular loss of services issue) and am now wanting to upgrade. Was considering a standalone PVR (Topfield 2400/2460 or Beyonwiz DP-P2) until I came across this Panasonic, which seems to do everything a PVR does, but also has a BluRay player/recorder.

I don't really need a BluRay player/recorder right now, but for about the same price as a PVR, was seriously considering it - at the very least it will mean I can get rid of one of the boxes (standard DVD player) under the telly.

Does anyone who has owned or owns both a PVR and a DMR-BW780/880 have any advice on what the differences are (apart from the BluRay drive, of course), and which would be the better option for someone who doesn't really plan on doing any BluRay recording (for now, at least)?

I should add that my flatscreen doesn't have a built-in digital tuner (it was one of the first generation panels that were "HDTV ready" only), so I currently rely on my PVR to be able to watch digital TV. I really like the ease of use of the Topfield (with my Harmony remote, just one button turns on the TV and the PVR and switches it to live TV), so I'm hoping I will be able to do this with a DMR-BW780/880 as well?

[GOBMax]

I currently have a Topfield 7000 (the buggy one with the regular loss of services issue) and am now wanting to upgrade. Was considering a standalone PVR (Topfield 2400/2460 or Beyonwiz DP-P2) until I came across this Panasonic, which seems to do everything a PVR does, but also has a BluRay player/recorder.

I Have DMR-BW750 as well as Beyonwiz DP-S1 and P2. and would recommend Beyonwiz + a stand alone Blue-Ray player, unless you want to archive recordings.

As a PVR the Beyonwiz is better and more intuitive to use, but having said that, once you are used to Panasonic it is not to bad.

Blue-Ray playback is quite something.

[MickJT]

I currently have a Topfield 7000 (the buggy one with the regular loss of services issue) and am now wanting to upgrade. Was considering a standalone PVR (Topfield 2400/2460 or Beyonwiz DP-P2) until I came across this Panasonic, which seems to do everything a PVR does, but also has a BluRay player/recorder.

I don't really need a BluRay player/recorder right now, but for about the same price as a PVR, was seriously considering it - at the very least it will mean I can get rid of one of the boxes (standard DVD player) under the telly.

Does anyone who has owned or owns both a PVR and a DMR-BW780/880 have any advice on what the differences are (apart from the BluRay drive, of course), and which would be the better option for someone who doesn't really plan on doing any BluRay recording (for now, at least)?

I hope my reply is thorough enough for you.

The differences between a PVR and a Blu-Ray recorder with twin tuners built in, are that recorders, whether they are DVD recorders or Blu-Ray records, have a transcoder built-in. They can take the stream from the television stations and compress it down to a smaller size. With some settings, the quality of the video is nearly identical.

The Panasonic DMR-BW780 I have can record a TV stream in AVC/H.264 format, with or without subtitles, and it results in a file half the size of a usual PVR, but at the same quality since AVC is significantly better than MPEG-2.

A limitation is when recording one channel in a transcoding mode, a 2nd recording at the same time must be recorded in Direct-Recording (DR) mode.

The 250GB HDD seems to be large enough for me. I initially thought it might not be the right size for me, but with the transcoding built in, it seems it will be enough.

After recording a show in DR mode, you can later choose to convert that file into a different mode and reduce the size.

Recording on to a DVD or Blu-Ray means you can place that disc in a PC and play the files on it easily.

The DMR-BW780 has inputs as well, for digital video cameras, analog output cameras and also USB input. You can copy files from a USB stick, photos and video, to the harddrive.

When a station is being recorded in non-DR mode, you cannot watch a DVD or Blu-Ray at the same time, however there is no problem if you record in DR mode (and simply convert it later).

You can easily watch a blu-ray while recording two shows simultaneously. The time scheduler allows you to overlap recordings, meaning you can set two shows on different channels for the same time, i.e 6:30-7:30pm.

When pressing the power button to switch off the unit while recording, the recording continues in the background.

I should add that my flatscreen doesn't have a built-in digital tuner (it was one of the first generation panels that were "HDTV ready" only), so I currently rely on my PVR to be able to watch digital TV. I really like the ease of use of the Topfield (with my Harmony remote, just one button turns on the TV and the PVR and switches it to live TV), so I'm hoping I will be able to do this with a DMR-BW780/880 as well?

I hope it is a name brand TV. My old Soniq QV320H reports via HDMI that it is capable of accepting Dolby Digital audio via HDMI, which it is, but the TV doesn't downmix it to stereo. Therefore you only hears the audio for the surround speakers, which is generally echos and ambience for most scenes. I would hope Soniq know this by now. The QV320H is old, no built-in tuner and Blu-Ray was in its infancy.

The PS3 has the ability for you to select how the audio is outputted via HDMI with a lot more options than the DMR-BW780, and so the PS3 was used on the Soniq QV320H without any problems, but had to be set up manually for audio output.

The DMR-BW780 isn't exactly flawed in that regard. You can choose Bitstreaming or PCM, and the unit communicates with the TV to find out what it supports. This is in the HDMI spec, and all TVs should be capable of reporting the amount of channels and codecs it accepts accurately.

I don't see any reason your Harmony remote couldn't be set up to do the same thing. Keep in mind depending on the BW780's standby mode setting, it can take a long time (40 seconds) from being off to fully on and displaying a TV channel. This is a lot quicker when the "power save" option is off (5-10 seconds). "Power save" being off, as far as I can tell, is the same as regular PVRs. The special power save mode on this unit is designed to use next to no power at all while in standby, and it shows it, because it takes a lot longer to "boot up". I guess it's the same as "Standby" and "Shutdown" on a PC or Notebook; Power Save being equivalent to "Shutdown".

Edited August 31, 2010 by MickJT

[bassface]

turned on my 42 incher this morning and it said "software update 1.2" anybody know what thats all about?

[Slater]

turned on my 42 incher this morning and it said "software update 1.2" anybody know what thats all about?

something in the chain (TV, PVR etc) wants to update the internal software. is this about the 780/880?

the latest software for these is 1.2. agree with everything on screen and it will step you through the update process.

check the manual - I'm pretty sure the update procedure for the 780/880 takes a while. - like 45-50 minutes, but could be wrong. DO NOT power off the system while it is updating.

[bassface]

me again...just burnt a blu ray -r disc with some avi files and it is not recognised by my bw 880 very frustrating...any thoughts?

[MickJT]

1.21 was released which from what I can tell, fixes EPG issues with 9 and GO! At least here in SA.

[MickJT]

me again...just burnt a blu ray -r disc with some avi files and it is not recognised by my bw 880 very frustrating...any thoughts?

Explain exactly what happens. There is a setting in the menus regarding treating a blank Blu-Ray as a data disc or as a movie disc, but perhaps the files are just not compatible. Try the same files on USB and see if they work. If not, then you'll need to re-encode them.