Denon Dbp-4010-ud Universal Player

[Guest JohnA]

i would also like to see both plugged into your moon pre

both via single ended for another comparison

[Drizt]

Would make for very interesting comparisons

Does the moon pre 'remember' volume settings for each input? Makes its a lot easier to do valid comparisons between units with differing output voltages.

Damn I miss my Stello for that feature, wish it was a standard for such devices myself.

[Guest JohnA]

no it doesn't Drizt, so if the levels are off then forget it.

If the levels are the same though, i just think the moon and both hooked up via single ended will be on a more level playing field.

[Spearmint]

no it doesn't Drizt, so if the levels are off then forget it.

If the levels are the same though, i just think the moon and both hooked up via single ended will be on a more level playing field.

Definitely worth a shot as would using the digital out of each into a DAC.

The reason I'd like to trial the first method is using the Denon Link is supposed to be excellent with regard to Jitter.

DENON LINK 4th

What is DENON LINK 4th?

Digital Audio Signal

Sound that reaches human ears is made up of vibrating air that continually exists over time. Audio devices transform these vibrations into an electric signal. Sometimes the signal is an analog audio signal (smooth waveform), and sometimes it is quantified to become a digital audio signal (staircase waveform).

The digital audio signal samples the waveform of the analog audio signal at fixed intervals as it passes continuously over time and quantifies it into binary values consisting of 1 and 0. Since quantification enables the digital audio signal to be expressed as a waveform, it is negligibly affected by noise; as can be heard when listening to a CD, the sound of the music is very clear and virtually noise-free. The digital audio signal also suffers little degradation when edited and is therefore easily processed for use on various media such as CD, DVD, and Blu-ray disc.

In reality, however, digital audio signals are not entirely free of noise, as they have a distortion known as clock jitter that affects sound quality.

The Existence of Jitter

Digital audio devices are equipped with a clock that generates a time axis for quantized digital signals. The clock generates a time axis for use when signals are converted from digital to analog or from analog to digital. Jitter occurs when intervals along the time axis (the samples) fluctuate. The fluctuations along the time axis cause distortion in the sound.

Jitter mainly occurs due to a lack of accuracy in the clock itself and along the signal transmission path. To support media such as Blu-ray and DVD (video + audio), players need to have multiple clocks, and with Blu-ray and DVD, the video and audio signals need to be synchronized.

Generally, PLL is used to generate clock signals, but they are easily affected by noise during transmission which in turn causes jitter and degrades sound quality.

In recent years, greater attention is being focused on the importance of a master clock for the constant management of sampling at fixed intervals.

Conventional Jitter Suppression

In conventional jitter suppression, the digital audio signal (data) was temporarily stored in the front-stage memory of the audio circuit and output after being synchronized with the clock to achieve low-jitter digital signal transmission.

This method, however, was limited to audio sources on CD. There were basically two reasons for this. The first reason was that the clock frequencies of audio circuits were different from those of video circuits, and the second reason was that while the quantity of audio-only data was not that large and could be stored in memory, the quantity of video data and multi-channel audio data on DVD or Blu-ray disc is too large to store in memory.

The Advent of DENON LINK 4th, the world's first jitter suppression technology to include video signals

We have succeeded in using DENON LINK (a digital interface) as a dedicated clock signal transmission line to transmit high-grade digital signals in high speed and with negligible influence from external noise. Previously, the purpose of DENON LINK was to transmit the digital audio signals themselves, but the purpose of DENON LINK 4th is to control the clock.

DENON LINK 4th uses the master clock in the A/V surround receiver as the reference for controlling the video circuitry and the disc drive in the player, and the digital video and audio signals from Blu-ray disc are transmitted to the A/V surround receiver via an HDMI cable. This is how our DENON LINK 4th works.

DENON LINK 4th is able to transmit digital audio signals with negligible jitter because it has audio devices share the same clock. In addition, DENON LINK 4th has achieved a world first by suppressing jitter to an absolute minimum even for the playback of Blu-ray discs that include video signals.

Jitter suppression brings exceptional results to three-dimensional playback in such areas as sound localization, sound spaces and sound images. The sound space of a concert hall, for instance, is reproduced so clearly that it feels as though the artists are performing in very close proximity to the listener.

February 13, 2009

[Drizt]

no it doesn't Drizt, so if the levels are off then forget it.

If the levels are the same though, i just think the moon and both hooked up via single ended will be on a more level playing field.

Thats a shame. O well, still be interesting to compare the results.

Im not opposed to digital volume control outright as a general rule which seems to be prevalent audiophile circles, so I'm eager to read about spearmints results with both tests. From my comparisons with the Integra DHC-9.9 (digital vol) vs. Stello DP200 (analogue vol) I found only very slight differences (if they were there at all or just in my mind I don't know). Using my favourite method of comparisons I could not reliably tell the difference, so I stuck with the more convenient one

[Spearmint]

Thats a shame. O well, still be interesting to compare the results.

Im not opposed to digital volume control outright as a general rule which seems to be prevalent audiophile circles, so I'm eager to read about spearmints results with both tests. From my comparisons with the Integra DHC-9.9 (digital vol) vs. Stello DP200 (analogue vol) I found only very slight differences (if they were there at all or just in my mind I don't know). Using my favourite method of comparisons I could not reliably tell the difference, so I stuck with the more convenient one

Drizt,

From my initial findings between the Denon AVP used as a 2ch pre, and the Moon, the differences using the same source were there, but not IMO night and day.

This comparison for me is about the source (more importantly (again for me) the connection) and not the pre.

[betty boop]

Drizt,

From my initial findings between the Denon AVP used as a 2ch pre, and the Moon, the differences using the same source were there, but not IMO night and day.

This comparison for me is about the source (more importantly (again for me) the connection) and not the pre.

I'm certainly interested in the comparison spearmint. Would be comparing either source via what is likely their best form of connection to the denon pre which is both fully balanced in design input to output and also denon link capable. the denon pre is able to be set to adjust for volume differences so any volume differnece annomalies can be removed if needed to aid the comparison

[Drizt]

Thanks Spearmint for the explanation.

Drizt,

From my initial findings between the Denon AVP used as a 2ch pre, and the Moon, the differences using the same source were there, but not IMO night and day.

This comparison for me is about the source (more importantly (again for me) the connection) and not the pre.

I'm certainly interested in the comparison spearmint. Would be comparing either source via what is likely their best form of connection to the denon pre which is both fully balanced in design input to output and also denon link capable. the denon pre is able to be set to adjust for volume differences so any volume differnece annomalies can be removed if needed to aid the comparison

Thats a good thing.

[oznetman]

Hi folks,

Thought I would let you know that this afternoon I placed an order for a DBP-4010UD in Premium Silver. Hopefully it will arrive just before Santa drops in. My decision to buy was based strongly on comments here. I think I got a pretty fair price given that it is a new model.

I will be connecting it to my AVC-A1HD (which is a little over a year old). The speakers are Paradign Signatures all around (2 x S6, 1 x C1 and 2 x S1) with an Ultracube 10 sub. It will replace my Denon DVD-3910 which has given excellent service over the last four years - there is nothing wrong with it apart from the fact it doesn't do Blu-Ray. Rather than adding just Blu-Ray I decided to wait to keep the box count under control (I have some SACDs as well). This is my first foray into High-Def discs - now I just need to some disks to test it out: recommendations welcome.

Thanks to you all for your comments which help with the decision making.

Seasons Greetings,

Oz.

[betty boop]

Hi folks,

Thought I would let you know that this afternoon I placed an order for a DBP-4010UD in Premium Silver. Hopefully it will arrive just before Santa drops in. My decision to buy was based strongly on comments here. I think I got a pretty fair price given that it is a new model.

I will be connecting it to my AVC-A1HD (which is a little over a year old). The speakers are Paradign Signatures all around (2 x S6, 1 x C1 and 2 x S1) with an Ultracube 10 sub. It will replace my Denon DVD-3910 which has given excellent service over the last four years - there is nothing wrong with it apart from the fact it doesn't do Blu-Ray. Rather than adding just Blu-Ray I decided to wait to keep the box count under control (I have some SACDs as well). This is my first foray into High-Def discs - now I just need to some disks to test it out: recommendations welcome.

Thanks to you all for your comments which help with the decision making.

Seasons Greetings,

Oz.

oznetman, I think that is the real attraction with this player that it does all the previous universal players did really well, and adds top class blu-ray to the mix, all in the same box

will make for a really nice match for the avc-a1hd

re hidef discs watched transporter 3 the other night, was action packed with some awesome pics and sound. a fantastic showcase for the format. its almost a case of take your pick so many excellent discs out there to choose from. Looking at my collection, i am legend, patriot, mr and mrs smith are some of my favourites. pop along to the blu-ray subforum there was a thread there going on peoples favs

[Azz123]

Well my 6 channel cables finally arrived from clink today! Australia Post strike added basically a week to the delivery time. Ive started holiday's so have had a bit of time on my hands - Anyway, Ive hooked it all up and am suitably impressed!

SACD over analogue is in my opinion is up another level on what the 2930 reproduced.

As Ive got a multichannel Pre Amp I'm also toying with the idea of watching a few BR's using the 4010's onboard processing and bypassing the AVR (excluding video switching). It's not easy to do comparisons though I might give it a go.

[betty boop]

Well my 6 channel cables finally arrived from clink today! Australia Post strike added basically a week to the delivery time. Ive started holiday's so have had a bit of time on my hands - Anyway, Ive hooked it all up and am suitably impressed!

SACD over analogue is in my opinion is up another level on what the 2930 reproduced.

As Ive got a multichannel Pre Amp I'm also toying with the idea of watching a few BR's using the 4010's onboard processing and bypassing the AVR (excluding video switching). It's not easy to do comparisons though I might give it a go.

good to hear az, I'm still waiting for my 5 channel cable to get my re-arrange done ! been in the post over a week now from sydney. I've got stuff from overseas faster !

ps in the middle of the re arrange and while unhooking the denon 4010, I noticed a quiet whirring sound from it with my ear close to it. my is with all power save modes switched off. wonder if it actually keeps the little fan or some other fan running inside of it to keep cool circuits that are powered up so the machine is quick as a flash to boot up when needed.

my sony was dead quiet always so this is different defintely with the denon.

not a huge issue for me and first I've even noticed it with my ear close to it, my tivo is always powered anyways also whiring along. but might be a bother for anyone who gets bugged by anything with a noise ! there are 3 modes re power perhaps one a better compromise with sound vs boot time. mines unplugged now. but will check subsequently.

[Spearmint]

good to hear az, I'm still waiting for my 5 channel cable to get my re-arrange done ! been in the post over a week now from sydney. I've got stuff from overseas faster !

ps in the middle of the re arrange and while unhooking the denon 4010, I noticed a quiet whirring sound from it with my ear close to it. my is with all power save modes switched off. wonder if it actually keeps the little fan or some other fan running inside of it to keep cool circuits that are powered up so the machine is quick as a flash to boot up when needed.

my sony was dead quiet always so this is different defintely with the denon.

not a huge issue for me and first I've even noticed it with my ear close to it, my tivo is always powered anyways also whiring along. but might be a bother for anyone who gets bugged by anything with a noise ! there are 3 modes re power perhaps one a better compromise with sound vs boot time. mines unplugged now. but will check subsequently.

Gee I hope there is no fan noise with my unit

Mine is still packed up in its box, waiting for me to get some time to have a play. It maybe for sale real quick.

[50mxe20]

Gee I hope there is no fan noise with my unit

Mine is still packed up in its box, waiting for me to get some time to have a play. It maybe for sale real quick.

Send it over to me and I'll test it for you!

[joz]

Hi Mint.

the word is that they are shocking with a continuose whirr and humm at about 60db.

You have my postal address,yes!

[Craigandkim]

Gee I hope there is no fan noise with my unit

Mine is still packed up in its box, waiting for me to get some time to have a play. It maybe for sale real quick.

But Minty how often do you listen to your music with your ears next to the source transport?

Al, how does the DVD-A/SACD sound? Have you had a chance to give it a whirl- or are you still waiting on those cables?

Looks like another great piece of kit.

[Spearmint]

Thanks for the support Guys, I really appreciate it...

I'm sure it will be fine, however next to AC Hum, fan noise is another of my pet hates.

[Guest JohnA]

Thanks for the support Guys, I really appreciate it...

I'm sure it will be fine, however next to AC Hum, fan noise is another of my pet hates.

i'm with you on this one Minty

Noise no matter what is my greatest hate.

Fingers crossed its of no great concern though.

[myrantz]

Noise no matter what is my greatest hate.

Anyway to mod the fans? One thing I find about fans is there're PITA not because of the noise, but because of the sound/freq they emit...

E.g. Noctua fans aren't quiet, but the noise it makes is akin to ambient noise and is not as irritating...

[Spearmint]

i'm with you on this one Minty

Noise no matter what is my greatest hate.

Fingers crossed its of no great concern though.

It's going to get the better of me, I'll unpack it tonight and plug it into the power to check.

Anyway to mod the fans? One thing I find about fans is there're PITA not because of the noise, but because of the sound/freq they emit...

E.g. Noctua fans aren't quiet, but the noise it makes is akin to ambient noise and is not as irritating...

When you have a low noise floor, you'd be surprised what can be heard during quiet passages.

[myrantz]

When you have a low noise floor, you'd be surprised what can be heard during quiet passages.

I'm not that good... Agreed on what you said though, and I doubt the internal fan can be replaced with a generic Noctua fan anyway

[betty boop]

Thanks for the support Guys, I really appreciate it...

I'm sure it will be fine, however next to AC Hum, fan noise is another of my pet hates.

hi spearmint fingers crossed for you.

Its not that the fan is noisy, I only heard it with my ears pretty much on the unit while disassembling things, it was more a suprise to hear the very queit whirring sound with the unit in standby. not something ever noticed before, but certainly hope not audible in your setup.

Now with my system back together again certainly nothing to be heard at all. Though I've confirmed that with all the power save modes switched off it does indeed seem to leave the little fan on all the time - I checked with a torch and mirror. as mentioned perhaps with one of the the power save modes the fan does indeed switch off

[Azz123]

But Minty how often do you listen to your music with your ears next to the source transport?

Exactly!!

Minty I noticed mine the other day when I waas installing the SACD cable. I was circa 20cm from it and there wasnt a whisper in the house.

From the front of the unit I'd never noticed the fan before. You can rest asured...

Al, customer service at clink was excelent when I emailed them if you want to confirm Reg Post number etc.

[betty boop]

~

Al, how does the DVD-A/SACD sound? Have you had a chance to give it a whirl- or are you still waiting on those cables?

Looks like another great piece of kit.

Have been using it since got it craig, it is a very nice thing and does dvda/sacd very well indeed. re invigorated my interest for multichannel side of things with these formats. have it hooked up via denon link for those to the denon pre and sounds sweet

~

Al, customer service at clink was excelent when I emailed them if you want to confirm Reg Post number etc.

thanks az your right the customer service at clink is pretty good. I dropped them an email yesterday asking them what was the go and the phone rang from them just after I hit send ! and ofcourse it showed up today

[Azz123]

thanks az your right the customer service at clink is pretty good. I dropped them an email yesterday asking them what was the go and the phone rang from them just after I hit send ! and ofcourse it showed up today

Have you installed it yet?

It's the first multi channel cable that Ive purchased that I couldnt mark the cables with FL, FR etc with them being all black. Although the cables are numbered I didnt want to stuff up so I ended up butchering several mailing labels to make little tags.

By the way, have you got 3 blue lights yet??