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yatesy73

Foxtel Contracting Installer Issues

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When we sat in the park Chester Hill, Sydney 5 or 6 years ago, half of the "brothers" were doing install in the afternoon...no solidarity

And the Union bleated that they could fix everything...well I am still waiting for 100% factual information regarding superannuation......from 2004

But nothing will change while they recruit at the docks when the slow boats from Africa turn up.

Muppets...I wouldnt have one ofth work on my house.

Not sure what you mean by "well I am still waiting for 100% factual information regarding superannuation" Us techs from BSA and Downer are comtractors and we have our own ABN. we pay our own super, not BSA, Downer or foxtel.

May be I miss understood you.

I think hes referring to before all the contractors were forced to become a PTY LTD company. Prior to this, if you contract to one company for the MAJORITY of your work and you have to work within their guidelines and they paid you so much per year remuneration you were classed as their employee (even know you invoiced them) and they were required to pay your super and work cover.

Thats the way it works now. I was a 'sub contractor' for a person before I done foxtel, by law he had to pay me super and paid my workcover fees because A. He suppled me 98% of my work, paid me more than $7000 in a given year.

I still had to supply my own Public Liability and Pay my own tax.

The only reason we done it was it was easier for him and not having to register for PayG

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I think hes referring to before all the contractors were forced to become a PTY LTD company. Prior to this, if you contract to one company for the MAJORITY of your work and you have to work within their guidelines and they paid you so much per year remuneration you were classed as their employee (even know you invoiced them) and they were required to pay your super and work cover.

Thats the way it works now. I was a 'sub contractor' for a person before I done foxtel, by law he had to pay me super and paid my workcover fees because A. He suppled me 98% of my work, paid me more than $7000 in a given year.

I still had to supply my own Public Liability and Pay my own tax.

The only reason we done it was it was easier for him and not having to register for PayG

Even if a contractor supplys 100% of your work, the law is that if you are responable for the job and you put your licence number on it. eg ACA Titab cable licence,electrical, plumber they don't have to pay it. it has been this way even befor they had the GST.

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Even if a contractor supplys 100% of your work, the law is that if you are responable for the job and you put your licence number on it. eg ACA Titab cable licence,electrical, plumber they don't have to pay it. it has been this way even befor they had the GST.

Thats fine that your responsable for the job HENCE the Public Liability.

I dont think your quite understanding what Im talking about.

If your an individual supplying 100% labor as a 'contractor, IE SOLE TRADER' to one particular company for a whole year and its the majority of your work IE. What you do with Foxtel. Then Technically BSA/Downer have to supply you with workcover because they pay you $7000> for Labor (work cover being incase of injury, whilst preforming tasks for BSA). And you are quite possibly entitled to super off them as well.

Im sure someone in BSA/Downer woke up to this at some point, hence pushing the contractors to become PTY LTD.

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God it feels creepyto agree with Frosty...but I do.

BSa are still liable for many techs Super prior to them become Pty Ltd.

Neversaydie hinted at it, but never came up with any proof.

The law has a number of tests which determine whether or not you are a contractor and there is well established industrial case law and it is abundantly clear that all the techs employed by BSA/Downer/ATS due to the conditions of the contracts and the requirements of the contracting companies are deemed to be employees and are therefore entitled to be paid amongst other things, superannuation.

Two of the indicators applied by the courts which indicate that a person is an employee are ;

a) The tech is required to wear a uniform with the contracting companies logo on it.

B) The tech is required to display the logo on his vehicle.

I have just arrived home so I will not go any further tonight but I will go into this in more depth in the next day or two and I will post the cases quoted by the courts so you can all read them yourselves

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At a conciliation conference in the Arbitration Commission last year, a Senior Deputy President of the Commission told BSA in no uncertain terms that the status of the tech was undoubtedly that of an employee and not a contractor and therefore was covered by the Act.

The Commissioner cited the following case J.Bailey v Allied Express Transport Pty Ltd (2002) which can be found at the following on the AustLii web site

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp...%20%20Allied%29

It is only 18 paras long and is fairly easy to read and understand. The relevant sections are para 16 and para 17.

This judgement is extremely relevant to BSA/Downer/ATS techs.

Another case which you all should have a look at is Savage v Programmed Maintenance Services (2001) in the Compensation Court of NSW.

This case relates to a painter (Savage) employed as a sub-contract painter who got injured and sued Programmed Maintenance Services (the contractor) for workers compensation. The court determined that he was in fact an employee and awarded him compensation.

The relevant sections are para 17 and para 18.

This case can be found at

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp...l?query=^savage

I urge all techs to have a look at both these cases and compare the circumstances of each case with that of yourself as a tech on a so-called contract.

The contracts you have signed are sham contracts instituted by the contracting companies to allow them to avoid their workplace responsibilities and as such if challenged in the industrial courts will be overturned and from that will flow all the entitlements that BSA have stripped away, yes including super.

This is why each and everyone of you needs to join a union.

But do not believe for one minute that the union can solve all your problems because they cannot and they are only as strong as their members.

For those of you who were in the industry at the time you will recall how the contracting companies and Foxtel went to water when the techs got behind the union and challenged the paltry $20 which was intended to be paid for the return path, what you should also remember is that everybody at the time, at BSA at least, received a $1,000 training bonus.

This is what happens when workers stick together but unfortunately there are too many rats in the industry who are prepared to scab on their workmates as happened in Newcastle last year when half a dozen techs ratted on their mates and went to work thus undermining the protest.

As a direct result of this the workflow has been deliberately slowed down so that you do not have the capacity to build up savings to sustain you through a dispute. Having said that if unanimous collective action is taken then Foxtel and the contracting companies will go to water and you will not be out n the grass for very long. It has been proved time and again that when workers stand up to these industrial thugs, then like all bullies they turn it up.

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At a conciliation conference in the Arbitration Commission last year, a Senior Deputy President of the Commission told BSA in no uncertain terms that the status of the tech was undoubtedly that of an employee and not a contractor and therefore was covered by the Act.

The Commissioner cited the following case J.Bailey v Allied Express Transport Pty Ltd (2002) which can be found at the following on the AustLii web site

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp...%20%20Allied%29

It is only 18 paras long and is fairly easy to read and understand. The relevant sections are para 16 and para 17.

This judgement is extremely relevant to BSA/Downer/ATS techs.

Another case which you all should have a look at is Savage v Programmed Maintenance Services (2001) in the Compensation Court of NSW.

This case relates to a painter (Savage) employed as a sub-contract painter who got injured and sued Programmed Maintenance Services (the contractor) for workers compensation. The court determined that he was in fact an employee and awarded him compensation.

The relevant sections are para 17 and para 18.

This case can be found at

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp...l?query=^savage

I urge all techs to have a look at both these cases and compare the circumstances of each case with that of yourself as a tech on a so-called contract.

The contracts you have signed are sham contracts instituted by the contracting companies to allow them to avoid their workplace responsibilities and as such if challenged in the industrial courts will be overturned and from that will flow all the entitlements that BSA have stripped away, yes including super.

This is why each and everyone of you needs to join a union.

But do not believe for one minute that the union can solve all your problems because they cannot and they are only as strong as their members.

For those of you who were in the industry at the time you will recall how the contracting companies and Foxtel went to water when the techs got behind the union and challenged the paltry $20 which was intended to be paid for the return path, what you should also remember is that everybody at the time, at BSA at least, received a $1,000 training bonus.

This is what happens when workers stick together but unfortunately there are too many rats in the industry who are prepared to scab on their workmates as happened in Newcastle last year when half a dozen techs ratted on their mates and went to work thus undermining the protest.

As a direct result of this the workflow has been deliberately slowed down so that you do not have the capacity to build up savings to sustain you through a dispute. Having said that if unanimous collective action is taken then Foxtel and the contracting companies will go to water and you will not be out n the grass for very long. It has been proved time and again that when workers stand up to these industrial thugs, then like all bullies they turn it up.

Totaly agree, we must stick together.

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Any proof of a tech that had their Super paid by BSA Neversaydie?

I did not say that they had.

I do not see the point of the question although that is the point I am seeking to make ie. that the sham contracts (see below) were introduced to enable BSA to avoid their responsibilities under the Superannuation Guarantee Act.

This is an extract from the FAIR WORK BILL 2009

It promotes fairness and representation at the workplace through streamlined and simple general protections dealing with workplace and industrial rights, including the rights to freedom of association and protection against discrimination, unlawful termination and sham arrangements (which disguise employment

arrangements as independent contractor arrangements).

Similar clauses appear in the Industrial Relations Bill 1999 and the Workplace Relations Bill 1996 and also believe it or not in the Work Choices Bill 2005, Howard's abomination.

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Any proof of a tech that had their Super paid by BSA Neversaydie?

I can tell you about a tech who approached the ATO about this issue and he was told by them that he was probably entitled to be paid super by BSA but it would involve the ATO auditing his tax returns for the last 5 years, for what reason I am at a loss to understand.

However, the last time I spoke to him, he said that he had dropped the idea and as I understand it, it was because his tax affairs were not in apple pie order.

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Very recently downerr seems to now be aiming to loose its foxtel contract and piss off all its subbies with no rate rises and OHS gone overboard... If your not wearing the correct PPE/tied your ladder off etc and caught out by a Safety Supervisor your in jeporday of losing your job & free foxtel! lame isnt it, however if you wear the PPE and spend the extra hr on a simple job you practically work for nothing... So we all loose no matter what... Downerr is really going to be in the shitter when they expect to get all this work covered this summer. We have all got to make a stand and tell them were not working with out a rate increase of $50+ per job because were all gonna end going broke from this work. Id rather come weathly then poor!

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Looks like you need some sleep before getting up on that ladder.

we all need sleep mate.

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I did not say that they had.

I do not see the point of the question although that is the point I am seeking to make ie. that the sham contracts (see below) were introduced to enable BSA to avoid their responsibilities under the Superannuation Guarantee Act.

This is an extract from the FAIR WORK BILL 2009

It promotes fairness and representation at the workplace through streamlined and simple general protections dealing with workplace and industrial rights, including the rights to freedom of association and protection against discrimination, unlawful termination and sham arrangements (which disguise employment

arrangements as independent contractor arrangements).

Similar clauses appear in the Industrial Relations Bill 1999 and the Workplace Relations Bill 1996 and also believe it or not in the Work Choices Bill 2005, Howard's abomination.

Hey Comrade ,Unions are why people become sole contractors and pty ltds. They were nothing but pains in the arse when I was working on building sites.They can't help pushing their politics down your throat. When will they realize that Socialism only works in theory.

Regards

Debruis

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Hey Comrade ,Unions are why people become sole contractors and pty ltds. They were nothing but pains in the arse when I was working on building sites.They can't help pushing their politics down your throat. When will they realize that Socialism only works in theory.

Regards

Debruis

Hey Debrius,

you are lucky that that BSA Ltd did not run that building site ... otherwise you would find socialism better than working on that building site as BSA contractor.

You would still be getting FINES from BSA for various unknown reasons.

In regards on Union help for Foxtel contractors is anyone forgot 2004 ?

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Anyone watch the 7:30 report last night.

If not jump on the ABC Site and watch it.

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Just so you guys don't think that anyone appreciates you...

We had Foxtel installed at our house 15 months ago. It wans't the easiest installation from what I could see (double storey brick house, multiroom, middle of winter etc) but the techs were fantastic - polite, respectful of our home and the installation worked perfectly. Couldn't have been happier...

We upgraded to IQ2 last week, and the same techs returned. The appointment was for 12-5 but they called at 11:15 and asked if the could come early. We have our system through Telstra and the job sheet was a mess. Quick discussion on what was required, and they got to it - installed an additional multiroom point, moved an IQ1 to it and added the IQ2. All done in 45 minutes. Again, couldn't have been happier...

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Foxtel installation in my area, purely as a result of the way the techs conduct themelves.

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Apparently two Downer techs today in Victoria where caught not wearing their PPE or filling out their take 5's and they now have been given no work for two weeks! Absolute B.S if you ask me... We all may as well just get caught out and then theyll have no one to complete the jobs and then they might wake up and realize that they (Downer) are ruining their Profits and business with Foxtel... If only they paid us the extra $50+ per guys would wear the harness and we'd all go home even. But of course Downer doesn't think that (yet).

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Hey Comrade ,Unions are why people become sole contractors and pty ltds. They were nothing but pains in the arse when I was working on building sites.They can't help pushing their politics down your throat. When will they realize that Socialism only works in theory.

Regards

Debruis

Comrade, blokes like you just don't get it.

The conditions you enjoy today were not given to you by some benevolent employer or government, they are the result of generations of workers sacrificing their time and in some cases their lives in order that we can enjoy a decent standard of living, which I must say is being rapidly eroded due to workers such as yourself. You seem to forget that the unions reflect the views of their members ie the workforce and overwhelmingly act on behalf of the workers.

I agree that there are some rogue union officials who are only interested in pushing their own agenda but they are in the minority. I worked in the building industry in the seventies (I was in the ETU) when the BLF were absolutely out of control and put a lot of blokes, including myself, offside with their appalling behaviour, blokes such as Norm Gallagher, but those bad old days are long gone and today's union officials are much more responsible. However, they are not miracle workers and the unions are only as strong as their membership and if the workers do not join their respective union then they will wither on the vine and die. If that ever happens God help the workers because nobody else will.

Look at the recent low pay case where the commission refused to award an increase in the minimum wage to the lowest paid workers in the land because they do not have a collective voice.

I am nearing the end of my working life but I really fear for the future of the generations to come if the current workforce don't find their balls and start fighting for the rights of the workers, particularly in this industry where rates have risen by less than 5% in eleven years whilst costs have skyrocketed.

As has been mentioned in other posts, the last time the union stepped into this industry in 2004 it resulted in a doubling of the return path rate with a minimum of pain for the workers, all because the CEPU organised mass stop work meetings.

It is past time comrade.

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Comrade, blokes like you just don't get it.

The conditions you enjoy today were not given to you by some benevolent employer or government, they are the result of generations of workers sacrificing their time and in some cases their lives in order that we can enjoy a decent standard of living, which I must say is being rapidly eroded due to workers such as yourself. You seem to forget that the unions reflect the views of their members ie the workforce and overwhelmingly act on behalf of the workers.

I agree that there are some rogue union officials who are only interested in pushing their own agenda but they are in the minority. I worked in the building industry in the seventies (I was in the ETU) when the BLF were absolutely out of control and put a lot of blokes, including myself, offside with their appalling behaviour, blokes such as Norm Gallagher, but those bad old days are long gone and today's union officials are much more responsible. However, they are not miracle workers and the unions are only as strong as their membership and if the workers do not join their respective union then they will wither on the vine and die. If that ever happens God help the workers because nobody else will.

Look at the recent low pay case where the commission refused to award an increase in the minimum wage to the lowest paid workers in the land because they do not have a collective voice.

I am nearing the end of my working life but I really fear for the future of the generations to come if the current workforce don't find their balls and start fighting for the rights of the workers, particularly in this industry where rates have risen by less than 5% in eleven years whilst costs have skyrocketed.

As has been mentioned in other posts, the last time the union stepped into this industry in 2004 it resulted in a doubling of the return path rate with a minimum of pain for the workers, all because the CEPU organised mass stop work meetings.

It is past time comrade.

Neversaydie

You are so right.

in the past three years the Downer workers have only go a 4% increase in pay. we were promise when we joined Downer to get a CPI increase each year. the only reason we got the 4% was because of the union.

Now days the union is there to help us. They just need more people to be part of the union.

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i am a contractor for ats. there was a post prior that stated ats pay 36 for a service call. i get paid more than that so i don't know where you got your figure from. the quality of work i have seen in my area is quite appalling. (i have been doing project management and data/fibre for years). it gives me the gripes that people complain about pay rates when only half of the work i have seen would pass a quality inspection. i do the same work and get paid the same money and have never had a damage claim, fault or customer complaint. why should those that do half a job get paid the same. (and im talking both austar and foxtel contractors. the areas i have seen are grey areas that allow either foxtel or austar)

sometimes work slacks off for austar, but it is "seasonal", and to be expected. and on working saturdays; whats wrong with that. don't you people like earning money ? i work 6 days a week and occasionally ats throw us work on a sunday but give us a "bonus" per job completed. my worst weeks turnover would be 1000 (wet weather week), and my best allowed me to turn over 4K +, all doing pay tv installations. maybe ats are just better to work for than BSA/downer. is foxtel requiring every contractor to have a minimum cert 2 in antennas etc by the end of the year too ?. and i assume that all the foxtel contractors have an unresricted cablers licence too.

i actually thought about deversifying and putting on a van and tech to do some foxtel work since its so close, but i might rethink that.

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i am a contractor for ats. there was a post prior that stated ats pay 36 for a service call. i get paid more than that so i don't know where you got your figure from.

You are dead right we get paid $36.54 + GST.

Sorry for under quoting. ;)

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You are dead right we get paid $36.54 + GST.

Sorry for under quoting. ;)

Not paid any travel?

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Not a terribly informed contractor. If you bothered to check your rate card you will see different pay rates for high, medium and low density areas. The $36 service call is the high density rate which most ATS installers would be on. The different zoning is based purely on the population densities for electoral divisions and as such favours Austar/ATS as there are many regions where long distances are travelled which are classed as high density and pay the lowest rate. I figure you are paid the medium or low density rate

i am a contractor for ats. there was a post prior that stated ats pay 36 for a service call. i get paid more than that so i don't know where you got your figure from.

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Not paid any travel?

$36.54 includes 20 minutes travel.

Edited by austartech

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$36.54 includes 20 minutes travel.

that is sickening I wouldn't even get out of bed for a $36.54 per hr service call + consumables...

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