Foxtel Contracting Installer Issues

[Sidor]

To give a rough idea, not BSA, but another company pays about 1.5 more for STB installation than T2H

[Storm AV]

Dont do it power av, it is nothing but a headache contracting to bsa. The pay will be less than you would earn running a extra fta outlet.

[POWER AV]

You are right, alarm bells starting ringing when they sent me a crazy amount of paperwork to fill in and they don’t return emails. I also remembered back installing set top boxes for elderly people that don’t really want them when I was with Tech2home, it was a nightmare just teaching them how to use them.

[Sidor]

You are right, alarm bells starting ringing when they sent me a crazy amount of paperwork to fill in

and I bet you they want you to have public liability insurance through Assurity and then if anything happens, they just take money from your fortnightly payment and send to Assurity without your concern.

it is 100% hat it is illegal to do that, but they do not give a sheet and keep doing that until someone take them to court.

[Rams]

When I worked in 2009, Telstra CEO got $4m bonus

http://www.smh.com.au/business/sols-9m-final-pay-packet-20090813-eiuw.html

What about BSA and Foxtel top managers salaries?

What about our (installers) salaries?

I can say, some weeks, I used to earn, after tax, all deductions, about 400-500 $/weekly, when paid for materials, petrol, phone bill, PDA bill, etc. and worked 6 days a week (7th day, my day off was spent to drive to BSA warehouse, return LNBs, STUs, buy new materials, day unpaid), 8-11h a day, it was about 60-70h a week, for 8-10$/h. After hours I had to pre call customers, close jobs online, label and describe returns, lot of extra unpaid paper work. The most ridiculous was to find spare STU box or smart card if didnt get from BSA, call workmates to ask who has it, go to find extra box at 10 pm. This used to happen in 2010, 2011 almost every week.

The reason I worked for BSA - security industry slowed down that time, and I was lured by BSA, fantastic offers, good wages, etc, like everyone else, but after few weeks I knew it was a crap. I don't do any sat tv instalations now, returned to computer networks, cctv, alarms, much less stress, more quiet job.

You guys, should know, nobody will install sat dishes in few years, tv signal will be streamed through broadband in metro areas.

[Sidor]

guys, great news!

Looks like BSA Ltd is a deep sheet with their stoopid management and requested a trading halt on their shares on ASX.

Foxtel should now ask themselves why would nearly bankrupt company keep the installation contract.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Sidor

[Storm AV]

One can only hope sidor. They deserve to fail after their poor practices!

I do feel for some employees there as there are some really good people working there...unfortunately there are some real pieces of poo as well-some really deserve to have their windscreens smashed!

[Rams]

This is really fantastic news today, made me very happy.

BSA management skills were very poor, and I wish them to bankrupt. Poor wages for hard working staff and millions for top managers lead each company to problems.

Did BSA introduce new sh*tty practices recently?

[Storm AV]

BSA have gone downhill in their staff treatment, their call centre staff have gone out on strike, the techs who earn BSA their $$$ are treated like crap, no recent shitty practices just the way they run their business!

[Sidor]

ATO (i.e. Office of State Revenue) want to "backcharge" BSA Ltd for $11.7mil

I guess BSA Ltd will be all over with the backcharges on all Foxtel installers now to recoup the above.

It is a time to leave the sinking Titanic.

[Rams]

I will have to open good champagne to celebrate BSA bankrupcy , need to buy a good one,only, I need to know from you, when I can open and celebrate

BSA call centre staff was striking???? can't believe. All these useless idiots used to assign me jobs 50 km away, 5 morning jobs, ignoring PDA requests, calling me at 7.10 am on my Sundays off work "why are you not on site?" ....excuse me, I worked 3 Sundays this month and last Sunday is my day off, and I signed contract to work 1 Sunday a month only, check in your computer today I'm off...oh, really? but you must go and do the job...no way, I work much more than my contract says and I won't work more Sundays, 2-3 Sundays a month is enough.

And now, Monday - Friday, only building sites, I can go home at 4 pm, enjoy weekends unless some private jobs to install alarms and cctv.

Guys, this Titanic is heading toward iceberg, or already hit and is sinking, leave it early!!! and laugh later

[Z2TT]

I have not read through everything, perhaps we can turn this thread into something more productive and maybe begin working toward some change? I take it the most common would be but not limited to :

- Made to work on days not agreed on

- Shortage of stock, mostly STB's

- Job Schedules on Short Notice (Same Day)

I'm wondering what you BSA and Ex BSA Installers have done to solve these problems other than complain about them, I've read this whole thread and we've all identified issues people have had, you could raise them with your managers and perhaps propose solutions to be added to the pipeline for the future? I remember reading of protests and union action a while back, if you don't raise the issues other than a forum post nobody will listen.

Comparing Subcontracting vs Self Employed Installations is pointless. Would you hire a trades assistant and pay him 100% of your Job Earnings?. When you run your own business you have lots of advertising expenses, you have to pay to get customers and then negotiate with them over the phone, emails and SMS to get your Job, where as BSA line the jobs up for you and the work is there, you just have to go and do it. On the downside your pay rates are fixed, you will have your easy walk-in, Newly built house, Install Dish and 1 Point and your out Job, and you will have your slippery roof, dusty cieling space, long cable run jobs, you need to take the good with the bad unfortunately. I have been to induction seminars with other companies similar to BSA, and believe me there are lower pay rates and much tougher demands and conditions out there than BSA.

I spent 8 Hours running a few extra points but fortunately running my own business I quote appropriately so I can ensure I look after the customer, by looking after myself to give them a proper job, but when your contracting, you cant have your cake and eat it. I will not cut corners if I feel I am getting paid too low for the job, if you think that BSA pays too low, find another job. I don't know if BSA always did, but they now hire trainees now who get about $16-$17 Per hour so it seems like they have ways of getting jobs done either way. On a good day you could make $600 a day Installing dishes, how many years of University, Loans, Homework and employee of the month awards will it take you to get to that level in another industry?. Compare that to $100 / Day at Mcdonalds, or being unemployed.

Perhaps there should be some sort of scaling system that pays installers penalties for jobs that are potentially going to be more difficult (2 Story, Tin Roofs, Older houses). For stock Issues you just need to get more stock than you require to compensate for any shortages, so always have STB's in your Vehicle for when jobs pop up.

Most customers are at work Monday-Friday 9-5, which makes it logical why weekends are necessary, if you are being treated unfairly and doing more weekends than agreed on, you have legal rights to dispute breaching of a contract. Whenever you are made to do work you are not agreed on, take note of it, and let your manager know, again, and again, and again as they are paid for it. Things like having to use a extra ordinary amount of stock and not being paid for it is unnaceptable, working for non agreed days is unnaceptable. Even though I aim to do the best and cleanest job possible all the time, I can honestly say I am more likely to do a better job and be more loyal to my employer if I'm being treated right and given the proper working conditions.

BSA are in the game to make profit for themselves, their stakeholders.

If they could not do that with their current contractor pay rates, they would obviously raise them, there is always going to be somebody else other than you that will work for them, and accept their pay, and if they are fine with following all the strict guidelines, red tape and getting up in the morning labouring day in day out under their terms, under their rules, under their rates, then the business works out fine. Whether the subcontractors are getting it 100% Their way is unfortunately not top priority and with all businesses let's face it, it's about the cashflow, it's about the workflow but if it comes to the point where subcontractors might get an unfair deal some days, stuff ups will happen, poor workmanship will happen, customer complains will happen. If your not happy of the way you get treated and cant change it, instead of doing poor work at a customers property, find another job where you can get paid well and be proud to do quality work.

There are no doubt issues with installers who work for BSA that have been raised, just don't forget to take into account the positives aswell.

If you cant do anything immediately to fix these problems, try to do what you can to make your work more pleasant, keep your tools top notch, find ways to work smarter not harder on and in the roofs. Guys who are currently experiencing problems need to talk with your regional managers about them.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Z2TT

[Storm AV]

Z2TT if only it were that easy!

Techs who query are considered trouble makers and with nothing to protect their contracts they either put up with it or have their contracts terminated.

Unlike some on here I have nothing to hide, I welcome any investigation that has apparently been organised!

[digiready]

Muppets that use capital letters for every second word.

Baja, your Kindy teacher is probably still in rehab.

[Rams]

I'm wondering what you BSA and Ex BSA Installers have done to solve these problems other than complain about them, I've read this whole thread and we've all identified issues people have had, you could raise them with your managers and perhaps propose solutions to be added to the pipeline for the future?

Hahahaha, all problems were totally ignored by BSA, whenever raised, BSA manegement never wanted listen to it, I was "whinging" raising constant, never ending problems with routing, warehouse, call centre. etc. All whinging guys were sacked.

For stock Issues you just need to get more stock than you require to compensate for any shortages, so always have STB's in your Vehicle for when jobs pop up.

You have no idea what you are talking about!!!

The problems with stock were always raised during every toolbox meeting, and state directors never wanted to listen to it, anwers was "this is warehouse problem, not mine". I used to foresee jobs and order more STB, e.g ordered 15 STB, got 2 or none. Warehouse never had enough STBs.

Guys who are currently experiencing problems need to talk with your regional managers about them.

I was raising problems, other guys too........ all were sacked. The best employee BSA likes is "yes-man"/slave type man, not raisining any problems, agreeing for any crap what BSA offers.

Now I am happy I was sacked, I work far, far away from BSA, less stress, good money, plus some private jobs,( I am my own boss then), but while working for a company in a week I am treated like a professional who can configure alarms, routers, etc and my employer is happy, can make more money.

[liveyk7]

G'day ladies and gents.

Before I post ill let you know I have read most of the pages of negativity and the few positive things about bsa.

But saying that this thread is now quite old let me ask the question again.

I am looking to join bsa and do some foxtel work.

As a starter what sort of work am I to expect and at a very minimum leaving aside expenses what sort of money can I expect to make till I am a bit more experienced?

I have my cert iii in telco but not digital reception. So apparently bsa will assist in sending me out with a current tech and giving me some "training".

I'm just looking to fill sometime and also in the process of looking for nbn work as that's my main interest moving forward. But seem nbn jobs are pretty scarce at the moment in Melbourne.

I have all necessary insurances and company established. Just need the tools to kick this off.

Thanks in advance.

[Sidor]

I'm just looking to fill sometime and also in the process of looking for nbn work as that's my main interest moving forward. But seem nbn jobs are pretty scarce at the moment in Melbourne.

check Transfield, they are looking for subcontractors for NBN project.

[sinceresniper]

To whom it may concern,

My reason for preparing this letter is to inform those who may consider a traineeship with Broadcast Services Australia (BSA) performing Foxtel installations. I myself was a trainee with Broadcast Services Australia (BSA) completing my certificate II & III in telecommunications whilst installing Foxtel Satellite Dishes on domestic housing rooftops. It’s important that new trainees are told the truth with regard to the company’s obligation toward them from a health and safety perspective.

From my first day out in the field at BSA what I noticed from the very beginning was that this company was running its traineeship program very much like any other company would in a cut throat business environment yet with trainees at their disposal.

Before starting the program my perception of a traineeship or apprenticeship was of someone who was sent out to assist qualified personal. However with BSA a trainee was sent out with another trainee to perform his duties from early on, sometimes after 4-6 weeks only of internal training familiarising yourself with the Foxtel manual handbook. In my case this trainee was only six months into the program with little to no exposure with a qualified person and sometimes asking me what my thoughts were on how to approach the job? That was somewhat of a luxury because before too long you were out on your own.

Now given that I had previous experience working with modern day power tools there are some younger personnel that haven’t had that luxury and some have been sent out with very limited experience and little to no support. For the most part their support came from another trainee working out in the field as he was the only one answering the phone. The Relationship Managers are sometimes overwhelmed with the amount of calls there are for assistance. In the beginning one RM left for stress leave and never came back and the replacements didn’t last too long either although they left for another role.

I can safely say that nearly all the trainees I knew did not always apply health and safety practises simply because time was of the essence and there was considerable pressure to get the job finished. I know that BSA has had its fair share of incidents yet this hasn’t deterred their behaviour personally I don’t think they really care as long as they don’t get fined.

The bottom line is money, my perception of those running this enterprise from above sometimes verges on criminality. If you pile someone up with considerable work they will cut corners on their safety. Personally I myself took shortcuts simply because it’s a personal choice between a 10 hour + day or a 7-8 hour day. I know for a fact that most if not all other trainees did the same. Relationship Managers were known not to harness whilst out on site assisting trainees. That behaviour was normal. In fact I respected it sometimes, as it showed that this RM was there to help you get the job done and get it done quickly. Don’t get me wrong in dangerous situations I always worked safely but some RM were bigger risk takers than I was. Yes they are strict when it comes to ensuring all personnel are harnessed over 1.8 metres, but the amount of work you’ll be assigned to complete will change your attitude very quickly. It takes time to set yourself up safely and unfortunately time is something you don’t have.

Since this traineeship program began about 3 years ago the completion rate is abysmal with almost half leaving before 6 months. A contractor has experience in an unsafe environment a trainee does not yet it’s their trainees that are performing the vast majority of the work. Contractors are few and far between. It’s no wonder. They all leave also. Trainees understood the Foxtel handbook better than they did. Any unassigned work is generally given to a trainee first simply because it is more cost effective to do so, irrespective of how much work you’ve been assigned. If you do finish early they’ll get you to pick up another job. They’ll stalk you like a wild cat. Some of the trainees I knew switched off their phones deliberately after 3pm irrespective of the consequences and believe me finishing at 3pm was a luxury.

A householder with no basic first aid training is who you’ll have to depend on should something go wrong. Mothers looking after infants or pensioners do not have it in their capacity to assist in dire circumstances other than a phone call provided they hear you.

In summary this companies operations are suspect at best and nothing will change. I remember a trainee after a year was asked to put on a harness in front of everyone and he couldn’t do so. He was even caught on his way up a double storey ladder by an occupational health and safety officer without a harness. Although to the officers credit he suggested he speak to his employer, as a trainee he shouldn’t be out on his own on a double storey.........You’ll always work alone.

You’ll be treated with little or no dignity and should you speak your mind they’ll threaten to take away your subsidised Foxtel service, you’re like a dog on a leash.

For those new incumbents coming in it’s only a matter of time before someone takes a fall. The likelihood is they won’t be in a harness either and insurance companies that insure against this won’t pay out. If you do fall in a harness you’ve got a very short timeframe to utilise. Your circulation will stop in 20-30 minutes, and heaven forbid if you’re heavy. The loss will be absorbed by the trainee who’s supposed to have his whole future ahead of him. Remember your out there alone.

If you’re somewhat overweight you won’t survive either. You need to be lean and physically fit and strong and able to perform 5-6 jobs a day because that is essentially what you’re there for. Those who are not in shape won’t survive as contractors either because in the end they’ll be working backwards. You’ll be in a state of servitude.

And if there’s an issue with the job order heaven forbid how long it’ll take to get through to their helpdesk to fix it. A 30 min wait is what you’d expect if you’re lucky. To counter this, the company suggests you send a message asking someone from the helpdesk to call you back so that you can continue with the install. But that call won’t come for a while and in the end you’ll be on the phone with your help desk then Foxtel, and you know how difficult getting through to Foxtel can be. All to put in place what should have been done by Foxtel in the beginning, another hour wasted sometimes more. There goes your lunch break. However your lunch breaks are luxuries trust me. You’ll be left to negotiate with the customer and inform them that the service won’t be switched on until much later and heaven forbid should there be a problem you’ll need to jump on the merry go round once again. This sort of thing happens too often. Nothing runs smoothly no matter how organised you are the company is not. There’s always obstacles you’ll need to overcome and those obstacles were not put there by you. Everyday something will come up to reduce your capacity to carry out your work and you’ll be the one that has to address these shortcomings. You’re the face of Foxtel and BSA to the consumer, acting like a company representative on traineeship wages whilst those in management spend their time working out how to keep you in this state.

Now don’t get me wrong I don’t want to come across as a whinger but I think it’s important this information gets out there. I did work with some exceptional personnel most of them trainees and if it wasn’t for them I personally would have left a long time ago. Unfortunately good relationship managers are few and far between but they’re so overwhelmed they’re not much assistance when you really need them. The vast majority that are employed there operate purely on self interest with no morality let alone any integrity and most of those are in positions of responsibility. A trainee once suggested to management why we don’t go out in pairs. We’d be much happier plus we’d get more work done. The manager’s response was I used to do 8 jobs a day. Not even superman can do 8 jobs a day. They don’t care.

Money is the motivating factor and provided the company makes money, those in Sydney will be happy which is where their headquarters is. Well hey state manager given that the technician sorry trainee is the one generating that income to begin with shouldn’t that also apply to him? Obviously not, no wonder everyone leaves.

Trust me they want you for cheap labour only and you’ll be groomed to perform Foxtel Satellite installations only. It’s not a traineeship. Therefore don’t put your life at risk performing almost 2 years of unsupervised work for $14.80 an hour. It’s a dangerous job. The roof space in 30 degree heat is nearly 40 degrees and these are confined spaces with dodgy wiring, spiders you name it, even possums dead and alive. You’ll be expected to take photos of your workmanship before and after you finish to ensure there are no damages. All with an I-Pad which is assigned to you once you begin. The law stipulates 3 points of contact once your over 1.8 metres. No wonder everyone cracks their screens and guess what you’ll be left with the expense to fix it. $14.80 an hour should cover it. Always check your pay slips, they don’t even pay you correctly. You’ll be left in a state where you’ll be visiting Fair work web sites to ensure you are paid appropriately for public’s holidays etc.

Now let’s look at the suburban landscape. Most inner city suburbs are full of double storey townhouses. There were days when I was given up to 3 full installations in 30 degree heat and all those houses were double stories. A double storey townhouse has limited roof space nearly all are on concrete slabs and throw in ducted heating and cooling you can almost forget about running cable in such a small area. Tin roof forget about it. The alternative is running the cable from outside on the 2nd level. The views are great but in a harness you are extremely restricted and it’s dangerous. Add another 2 hours to your job. Remember you’re out there on your own with other jobs outstanding and oddly enough you’ll run into “tech to home” personnel there to install home theatre systems and the like and there’ll be 2 of them and their work is all internal. They’ll ask you how much are you are on. I was ashamed to mention it even with customers.

Take it from me it was the hardest I’ve worked for the least amount of money. It was also the most dangerous and stressful time of my working life, but as you may be aware once you enter into a traineeship the government has incentives in place to ensure you don’t quit along the way as you’ll be forfeiting $3700 hundred dollars at the end of the exercise. Trust me it’s hardly worth it as this money is allocated to you to help you continue in the industry. $3700 gets you nowhere when you have to consider what it’ll cost to set yourself up independently with a working vehicle, tools, ladders, insurances etc. The meter to line up the dish is $2500 if not more. Not only that you’ll be groomed to perform Foxtel satellite installation only. How that’ll serve you should you consider working elsewhere is anyone’s guess.

Oddly enough the state government pays BSA a considerable amount of money per trainee to ensure the traineeship program doesn’t hinder them financially. $16,000 per trainee I hear. They don’t even fulfil all the modules they’re supposed to teach or their obligations to the government. Why because there’s an excessive amount of work because everyone leaves and by then what your traineeship is supposed to cover is of little importance. I often wondered whether perhaps it is more profitable to keep this program running as the money coming from the government far exceeds what they would make otherwise. That was made known to me by someone I’m not at liberty to reveal. In the end the government subsides bad business practise. It’s pure and simple.

But hey governments are not exactly known for spending your hard earned money wisely. Look at the free batts debacle how many roof spaces did I enter into with new batts on top of the old ones. You couldn’t even find the ceiling joists to put your feet on. Not to mention how filthy those roof spaces are and how little room you have to manoeuvre. Don’t forget the heat. Don’t forget the people that died also.

When it’s wet your within your rights to re-schedule the job for some other time. Try telling a customer I’m sorry I’m not allowed on your roof in the wet when they’ve taken a day off from work to be there. Most understand but some don’t.

With regard to roof tiles, most concrete roof tiles made today are quite thin and easy to chip. I used to find that I was chipping roof tiles on newer homes more so than the older ones. The concrete content in them is minimal. Customers always have access to spare ones so you’re told? I remember heading off to a 2nd hand tile yard to pick up some spare tiles at my expense as the customer had none which was normal. Most people rent as well. Ask someone who rents where the spare tiles are? Perhaps if you crawl under there you might find them. There’s another hour lost. Repairing them with silicone again more time lost. There are no easy breaks here.

One day one of the State Managers came out to perform a surprise audit whilst I was on the job. Not only did he treat me with utter disdain. Their motive is fear. I couldn’t help myself. By that point you don’t care if you lose your job anyway. I felt like saying listen hear pal you earn 5 times more than I do whilst I’m out there generating your income. Look at your turnover for God sake. Those at the top are psychopaths; their incomes are up there with those of the major financial institutions. They have a monopoly on it. They have it all the way across Australia. Do you want to perform Foxtel installations for another group? The choices are almost none. You work for them and them only. You’re groomed to perform their work it’s not a traineeship.

Almost every other trainee in my group chose not to continue as a sub-contractor. The company’s success rate is like 1 out of 20. In the end the margins are tight when you take into account all the expenses. The reality is financially you’ll be heading backwards and why would anyone consider performing a dangerous job for a group like this one. You’ll be making a tonne of money for those other than yourself. You’ll never come to own anything and that’s the way they want you, always striving for something you’ll never be able to have.

Anyway Foxtel pumps out way too many commercials and not to mention the repeats. This is what consumers pay for, shows that are free on free to air. Yes your antenna. 90% of Foxtel is rubbish unless you love sports. Is there anyone in the market for health insurance? Get Foxtel.

The worker is everything. Don’t make the same mistake I did.

Cheers

[New Installer]

Can I get an update on how the industry is going now? I am in the process of training with a Foxtel Technician with a contractor who is willing to provide me with tools and a van to get me started. The company will however, take a slice out of my pay for management and vehicle costs which is estimated to be around 20-25% of my jobs.

Has there been any positive changes to the rights of us subbies or is it still a sh!t storm and not worth touching with a 10 metre stick?

Thanks guys

[New Installer]

I've learnt that their daily jobs system has been automated online and subbies are able to go to the BSA site and find their jobs for the next day. This is a much more stream-lined approach than what was in place previously, from what I have read.

[Z2TT]

Your best off to talk with other BSA installers in your city to see how the current situation is as they will be in the know.

[Sidor]

it has been quite here recently ...

How is IQ3 thing going on ?

Everyone has been screwed up again like with Digipath few years back ?

More work for less pay ?