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Recusant

Samsung Ps50b650 Vs Panasonic Th-p50g10a

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BTW, Samsung also uses 4:4 pulldown of 96Hz in 2009 plasmas also. Panasonic doesn't have any advantage there.

It can also play nearly every format you can download off the internet via both USB and off a PC via DLNA.

Sound is crap. So I don't use the in-built speakers. I have it hooked up to my receiver via optical cable. =)

Edited by jakiman

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Thanks Recusant. Another thing for me to consider (the Samsung does have limited PiP functionality)

Are you happy with your choice of the Panasonic over the Samsung?

I don't know yet - i haven't got it! :)

I didn't want to pay for delivery, so i can't pick it up until this weekend. I'll let everyone know of course.

I know i'll be happy with the 1080p - the real issue for me is if SD FTA is poor, i will be disappointed. I really don't want to have to upgrade my perfectly good AVR because of that (and HD 5.1/DTS).

I don't watch much commercial FTA - ads, bloody ads - but i do watch ABC/SBS. I'll write a review when i get it set up. Hopefully by Sunday night.

For me, it was about comfort. I hate the idea of having a TV with issues. If the Samsung worked for 10 years without issue - then i think it would have been the better choice, but i just didn't/don't have that confidence. To me, a TV should last a long time - it's not an 'upgrade' proposition for me. So the 8 year old AVR should die first :) The TV i'm buying is replacing a 10 year old CRT that broke.

Dude, my eventual advice is this: Both TVs are good - the Samsung probably slightly better overall (SD pic, features, looks). I wanted piece of mind regarding reliability - so Panasonic it was. If reliability isn't your driving factor - go the Samsung.

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Recusant,

FWIW the FTA channels look great. Mind you I just plugged the TV antenna into the back of the set and it automatically tuned all the channels in, including the HD ones which look similarly great (despite as you noted, the crap content.)

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I know i'll be happy with the 1080p - the real issue for me is if SD FTA is poor, i will be disappointed. I really don't want to have to upgrade my perfectly good AVR because of that (and HD 5.1/DTS).

Recusant, don't you have a Beyonwiz PVR?

If you do, set the output to 1080i, it will upscale the SD channels to 1080i and there's virtually very little difference between the SD/HD channels then.

After about a month, switch back to the internal TV tuner and watch some SD and you'll feel like someone has smeared the TV with vaseline :P

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If reliability isn't your driving factor - go the Samsung.

I'm no Samsung employee. I've also had Sony/Panasonic/Samsung and even TEAC TV. =P

But this isn't the right advise imo. You may find this may not be the case in the real world.

Reliability is hard to measure. Especially by "brands". Well, a good image can go a long way.

To me and to many others, Samsung is equal if not better in reliability factor Sony/Panasonic/LG.

You have to measure via model/batch at least before coming to a more sure idea of reliability difference.

I got the Samsung 8 series 58" over Panasonic V series 58" plasma due to:

- Price (cheaper of course and this obviously was a big factor)

- Looks (love the clean black look with no lights in front and much thinner)

- Media 2.0 and 2 USB ports (this was a huge plus for my wife)

- Full white balance controls

- Better SD (Well, I watch 75% SD or lower resolution videos and TV so this was important)

- Reliability (haha. With my experiences, Samsung is more reliable than Panasonic by far)

Anyways. Let us know what you think of your new G10 when you get it. I'm sure you'll love it nonetheless. =)

Edited by jakiman

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Guys lets keep this civil.

Both the Samsung and Panasonic are good sets with slight quirks/foibles each. Anyone who says otherwise (or says one is "clearly" superior to the other) is a fanboy (fanboyism is a disease that blinkers one from the truth, those who suffer from fanboyism don't even realize that they suffer from this near fatal disease).

What I want is more user feedback in this thread.

Jakiman tell us more about your Samsung. Had a chance to do 24p Blu-ray yet? I'd be interested.

Recusant, when you get your G-series, you got to let us know. I'd be interested in your take about interlace SD. Also I think you'll really like feeding in 24p content into the G.

More reviews, less heat.

Dennis.

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Jakiman tell us more about your Samsung. Had a chance to do 24p Blu-ray yet? I'd be interested.

Recusant, when you get your G-series, you got to let us know. I'd be interested in your take about interlace SD. Also I think you'll really like feeding in 24p content into the G.

I've played a couple of blurays. Played with cinema smooth with Batman Dark Knight bluray with my PS3. 1920x1080 @ 24p

There's a few slow panning scenes in dark knight and I've tried with conema smooth on and off.

To tell you the truth, i really couldn't notice any difference. I went back and forth quite a few times in various scenes.

Maybe it wasn't the right scenes? haha. Anyways, I just left it on as I couldn't tell any difference in black level either.

(It blinks when you switch between it enabled and disabled. So it's not as easy to tell the difference straight up)

I'll try again over time and see how it goes. But for now, I got no complaints with my 58B850.

My wife says this plasma looks way better than previous LA55B650 LCD. (Also calibrated at the time)

I watch it from an angle (about 40degrees off) when I eat at my dining table and LCD noticeably washed out a bit.

But the plasma certainly does not and the black level and the colour depth remains rock steady. Gotta love it.

Also, when watching football, the players legs during running look more natural. (more like the way it looks on a CRT)

When watching videos off USB stick, it remembers where you left off for all the videos.

So you don't have to fast forward to where you left off. Nothing big but makes a difference.

If you want "flush" wall mounting, this 8 series is better than Panasonic G or V series as the cables do not shoot backwards.

The plugs are plugged in parallel to the screen and it's indented in so that the cables do not stick out the back.

I also noticed that the remote control response feels a tad faster than the LA55B650. Maybe it's just me. But I noticed it straight up.

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I've played a couple of blurays. Played with cinema smooth with Batman Dark Knight bluray with my PS3. 1920x1080 @ 24p

There's a few slow panning scenes in dark knight and I've tried with conema smooth on and off.

To tell you the truth, i really couldn't notice any difference. I went back and forth quite a few times in various scenes.

Maybe it wasn't the right scenes? haha. Anyways, I just left it on as I couldn't tell any difference in black level either.

(It blinks when you switch between it enabled and disabled. So it's not as easy to tell the difference straight up)

I'll try again over time and see how it goes. But for now, I got no complaints with my 58B850.

My wife says this plasma looks way better than previous LA55B650 LCD. (Also calibrated at the time)

I watch it from an angle (about 40degrees off) when I eat at my dining table and LCD noticeably washed out a bit.

But the plasma certainly does not and the black level and the colour depth remains rock steady. Gotta love it.

Also, when watching football, the players legs during running look more natural. (more like the way it looks on a CRT)

When watching videos off USB stick, it remembers where you left off for all the videos.

So you don't have to fast forward to where you left off. Nothing big but makes a difference.

If you want "flush" wall mounting, this 8 series is better than Panasonic G or V series as the cables do not shoot backwards.

The plugs are plugged in parallel to the screen and it's indented in so that the cables do not stick out the back.

I also noticed that the remote control response feels a tad faster than the LA55B650. Maybe it's just me. But I noticed it straight up.

Nice summation.

I would think there would be a difference between between Cinema Smooth on (96Hz I think?) and off (60Hz). You probably need too find a slow long distance panning type shot (with a horizon line) to see it. Dark Knight doesn't fit that criteria.

I too find I often need to view my Panasonic G-series from angles as well. An unexpected usage benefit of plasma over LCD that I really do make use of.....and by the sounds of it you do to.

Good to hear.

Dennis.

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I have a 50" B650 and now wish i had have bought the G 50"

The B650 does buzz and its black levels are no better than my 800A. I prefer my 800A over the B650.

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A TV should not have noticeable buzz (unless the room is deathly quiet), run your hand over the back of the set and see if you can stop or deduce the noise, if you can its fixable and if not send it back and buy the Panasonic.

What led you to believe that the B650 would have a lower black level then your 800A in a dark room; they should be about the same, however with significant ambient lighting the B650 definitely has better blacks and contrast then the 800A or G series Panasonics. If black level in a dark room is your priority a Pioneer Kuro is the only choice, a G series just gives you a slightly darker shade of grey then the 800A or B650 in the dark which does not solve the problem IMHO. Even a Kuro can’t do black in a dark room, but it will get way closer than a G series.

I am surprised you would replace a perfectly good 800A, any improvement was going to be incremental not dramatic, was the 800A a 42”?

If you can’t get a better picture out of the B650 once it is run in then the 800A you have setup issues.

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What led you to believe that the B650 would have a lower black level then your 800A in a dark room; they should be about the same, however with significant ambient lighting the B650 definitely has better blacks and contrast then the 800A or G series Panasonics.

People should not spend "most" of their main viewing with "significant" ambient lighting. Even at a Harvey Norman (with very very bright overhead lights) I found the Samsungs B650 filter only to be a slight improvement over the Panasonic (IMO). Both the Samsung and Panasonic plasmas where both far inferior to a host of nearby LCDs and LEDs in these conditions (LCDs thrive in bright lights, but this is fools gold).

At night folk should have reasonable subdued "bias" lighting (40-60W lamp), not too bright (but not total dark either). This has a two fold effect, it slightly hides the black level inadequacies of modern displays and helps prevent eye-fatigue (as can be experienced in a total dark room where one's iris may end up contracting/expanding too much due to large brightness changes).

In these conditions the G-series has superior black capabilities over the Samsung (again not huge, but it is there as many US AVS forum folk have noted). In these conditions the plasmas (which are inferior to LCDs in stores) show their capabilities (over similar priced LCDs).

For the critical viewer (with an appropriate sized wallet) the Kuros (if still available) are king no doubt.

Failing that a G-series (Pana) or B-series (Sams) are excellent mid-range offerings with slight pros & cons each.

Dennis.

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For the critical viewer (with an appropriate sized wallet) the Kuros (if still available) are king no doubt.

Failing that a G-series (Pana) or B-series (Sams) are excellent mid-range offerings with slight pros & cons each.

Pretty much sums it up nicely... in a thread talking about those two manufacturers models ;)

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Good summation. I am a strong believer in bias lighting, been using it for many years. To be full effective the bias light should be behind the TV so that there is no direct light path to the screen, if there is the lack of screen filtering on the Panasonics will be a problem, light reflecting off the underlying phosphor layer of the Panasonic screen can easily swamp its lower black level eliminating any advantage it has.

If you dont have very good light control (most people dont) an effective screen filter is worth more than a lower idle luminance from the display.

What makes the Kuro so impressive it that it combines a good screen filter with low idle luminance. If Panasonic employed a decent filter they would have a much better product.

Edited by Owen

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- Reliability (haha. With my experiences, Samsung is more reliable than Panasonic by far)

Urgh, I nearly threw up my dinner when I read that rubbish! :huh:

Edited by digitalhome

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Urgh, I nearly threw up my dinner when I read that rubbish! :huh:

Wonder why. Many of my work collegues prefer Samsung to Panasonic. (That's about 10 tech guys)

1 of them vow to never buy Panasonic again. So as I said, it's all to do with personal experiences.

I don't have any problems with either Panasonic or Samsung. I just buy what I think is best.

Things going faulty has nothing to do with brand when it comes to big brands such as Sony/Pana/LG/Samsung.

To me, the probability of failure for any of those brands are about equal. Some sell more = more complaints that's all.

Edited by jakiman

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But this isn't the right advise imo. You may find this may not be the case in the real world.

Reliability is hard to measure. Especially by "brands". Well, a good image can go a long way.

To me and to many others, Samsung is equal if not better in reliability factor Sony/Panasonic/LG.

You have to measure via model/batch at least before coming to a more sure idea of reliability difference.

I have a Samsung monitor for my PC, i love it. Never failed me, had it for years.

You can't tell me that 'reliability is hard to measure.....' and then say "Samsung is equal if not better in reliability". You have just contradicted your own (essengtially valid) argument. The number of issues reported with the B650 does make it real world. It is one reason i chose the Panasonic.

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I have a 50" B650 and now wish i had have bought the G 50"

The B650 does buzz and its black levels are no better than my 800A. I prefer my 800A over the B650.

That sux man. Get the buzz fixed and i'm sure you'll be happier. It's still a great TV.

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Brief review of the Panasonic - i'll try a more thorough one when i've had the chance to see some good stuff.

- Very easy set-up. Those menu's i didn't like have grown on me slightly due to their efficiency.

- Instruction manual is a little light on detail - tips etc.

- The "daytime viewing" that is supposedly poor isn't a problem at all. The "home" setup has Dynamic, Normal, Cinema. Cinema was fine except when the sun was shining through the window pretty much onto it. Then i switched to Normal. Dynamic just isn't necessary (ie, that "daytime viewing is better on blah" just doesn't matter - maybe it is - but during the day your viewing is compromised anyway - so who cares?!)

- The screen is quite effective at reducing reflections, the bezel is actually more reflective.

- FTA SD isn't as bad as some make out. I'm sitting about 3.5m+ from the 50" screen, and the picture isn't ideal - but it's quite acceptable IMO.

- Remote feels quite nice, but the volume/channel buttons are near the bottom, instead of near the 'disc' - which i just don't understand.

- The one remote to operate both devices (i got a Pana BD60 Bluray player too) is quite natty. It uses on screen menus rather than a hundred buttons for both devices on the one remote.

- There is a very slight green tinge look to the image, especially when it is set to "warm". I liked the middle setting myself, it reduced the greenish appearance and looked slightly more natural to me. Being in Canberra, i'm not used to the 'dusty' look of the streets and sky that i thought "warm" delivered. Canberra is crisp and clear typically. So i picked the middle option ("normal").

- I have all "processing" options turned off. Everything seems quite snazzy, i'll experiment with the colour management and stuff later.

LOTR (haven't watched it all) looks great (for a DVD). No judder/jitter or whatever was perceptable. This was played on the Panasonic BD-60 Bluray player so it was upscaled. Of course, it was a little fuzzy, not being HD - but i'm happy to report that my old DVD collection will still be usable!

"Persuasion" 700mb AVI played through Beyonwiz. I thought this would be a lot worse, but it wasn't that bad. Again, the image wasn't very sharp but there was nothing obviously distracting like jerkiness or anything.

Dark Knight BluRay was quite stunning. I didn't notice any judder or jutter or jitter or jumping or anything - it was all smooth and brilliant. The blacks look truly black and everything was really very nice!

My one complaint so far is that i've noticed the panel is slightly mis-aligned. It's about 1.5mm too far to the left, which means that if you sit much left of the best seating position, the far left edge of the image may be obscured. I'm debating about whether to return the TV for a replacement. I will go an have a close look at ones in the shop and see if others have a similar issue first. Also - i want them to order (and have it arrive) my replacement before i take this one back! (if i choose that path). Fortunately, there is really only one seat to the left of 'ideal' in my little abode.

Edited by Recusant

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Things going faulty has nothing to do with brand when it comes to big brands such as Sony/Pana/LG/Samsung.

To me, the probability of failure for any of those brands are about equal. Some sell more = more complaints that's all.

Mercedes a few years ago got into strife when, for about 10 years or so, they had been skimping on quality to boost profits and shareholder value. People who own the cars made in that period became very angry naturally. It became relatively common knowledge and Mercedes were forced to publicly admit and apologise for being sloppy and using, for example, plastics in place of metals to reduce costs. Even Top Gear occasionally mentioned it for a while.

So - while brand didn't stop them from cutting costs - it did cost the brand and they were forced to choose their future path. They returned to quality and reports have been much improved since.

I would agree that brands at various levels (and depends on the product too) are relatively similar. Though i will admit i'm not sure i have ever included LG in that list your wrote. My perception of LG is one of marketting genius over quality product. As you mention elsewhere - the perception of quality can be manufactured without having to manufacture it in the product (so to speak). My perception is out of date, as my experience with LG (as a salesperson in the TV field) is now about 10 years old. LG were awful, awful products then - but great design/appearance. They knew early that people choose VERY expensive items based on how cool they are - not how technically advanced or 'better' they are. Cars are great example of this.

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I would agree that brands at various levels (and depends on the product too) are relatively similar. Though i will admit i'm not sure i have ever included LG in that list your wrote. My perception of LG is one of marketting genius over quality product. As you mention elsewhere - the perception of quality can be manufactured without having to manufacture it in the product (so to speak). My perception is out of date, as my experience with LG (as a salesperson in the TV field) is now about 10 years old. LG were awful, awful products then - but great design/appearance. They knew early that people choose VERY expensive items based on how cool they are - not how technically advanced or 'better' they are. Cars are great example of this.

I wouldn't say LG are a bad brand, just down the line a bit. I know many companies have their ups and downs over time, they make brilliant products, then go sloppy, then come back again (sometimes).

I have an 19" LG PC CRT monitor, lasted me well over 6-7 years without issue. It's still working and produces far better image quality than my Samsung LCD. Only reason I replaced it was that I wanted something bigger, flatter and wide screen. ;) My brother has an 81cm LG LCD TV which he bought for a bargain which produces quite an acceptable image. Good enough for him he says. They used to be Goldstar and were rubbish until they changed to LG.

But I remember way back my grandmother bought me a 34cm Teac TV for my Commodore 64! It was great solid little TV and Teac were pretty good at the time, then they went downhill a few years later bringing out cheap rubbish. A few other brands are like that too now, namely Sanyo which are now rebranded Yum-cha TV's.

Only Sony/Panasonic and maybe a few I forgot to mention have consistently produced quality products.

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Yeah. Even in Korea, Samsung is regarded as an elite company. (Only elite uni graduates can get a job pretty much)

It's also the biggest / richest company in Korea and has a huge impact on the Korean economy as a whole.

LG in recent years have changed and is now trying to become a "Samsung" in the home country as well as western market.

They try harder with more innovative features and designs. (As we know, more features doesn't mean it's always better)

Samsung is a bit more RAW in that respect compared to LG. (Sorta like Intel vs AMD or Nvidia vs ATI if you know PCs.)

Samsung and LG both tried to break into the western market by introducing cheaper prices.

That obviously had its good and bad results. Cheaper in price automatically converts into cheaper quality to the consumer's mind.

Still, more people flock in and buy them anyways. Which results in bigger mass manufacturing numbers = more possibility of failure.

To me, Samsung is a better brand than LG. It's an image that LG will have to live with possibly forever against them.

But Sony and Panasonic to me is on the same level as Samsung. Some products are better, some worse. That's all.

anyways.... =P

As I said, I don't reallty care about brands that much at all. If it's good, I buy it. If I like it, I recommend it to others.

Only competition to my 58" B850 was a V10 series Panasonic and it's not out yet and also would be more expensive.

I guess we all buy a certain product for different reasons. Only people I REALLY don't understand are those who buy $300 HDMI cables etc. =P

Edited by jakiman

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My one complaint so far is that i've noticed the panel is slightly mis-aligned. It's about 1.5mm too far to the left, which means that if you sit much left of the best seating position, the far left edge of the image may be obscured. I'm debating about whether to return the TV for a replacement. I will go an have a close look at ones in the shop and see if others have a similar issue first. Also - i want them to order (and have it arrive) my replacement before i take this one back! (if i choose that path). Fortunately, there is really only one seat to the left of 'ideal' in my little abode.

Recusant, before you take the TV back you should first fully confirm you have an issue. You may well not have an issue, e.g. foxtel & free-to-airs don't always fill up all pixels with content (if the Panasonic is in overscan off mode).

My suggestion, burn the free AVS HD 709 disk to a DVD-R (read http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496)

Once burned pop the disk into your Blu-ray player.

Panasonic should be overscan off mode.

Go to the sharpness & overscan image (it's the one with a square in the middle that is tilted a little bit, very good for detecting edge enhancement).

Anyway, this image (1920*1080) has a single row of white pixels all the way around the outer edge, do you see the single pixel wide white border? Is this border on the very outer edge of your G10?

If the answer is "yes", then there is nothing wrong with your screen.

If the answer is "no", then get the screen replaced.

Basically I find with Foxtel & Over-the-air TV I need overscan On.

With DVD & Blu-ray I need overscan Off (to avoid needless & harmful rescale).

Dennis.

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Brief review of the Panasonic - i'll try a more thorough one when i've had the chance to see some good stuff.

- Very easy set-up. Those menu's i didn't like have grown on me slightly due to their efficiency.

- Instruction manual is a little light on detail - tips etc.

- The "daytime viewing" that is supposedly poor isn't a problem at all. The "home" setup has Dynamic, Normal, Cinema. Cinema was fine except when the sun was shining through the window pretty much onto it. Then i switched to Normal. Dynamic just isn't necessary (ie, that "daytime viewing is better on blah" just doesn't matter - maybe it is - but during the day your viewing is compromised anyway - so who cares?!)

- The screen is quite effective at reducing reflections, the bezel is actually more reflective.

- FTA SD isn't as bad as some make out. I'm sitting about 3.5m+ from the 50" screen, and the picture isn't ideal - but it's quite acceptable IMO.

- Remote feels quite nice, but the volume/channel buttons are near the bottom, instead of near the 'disc' - which i just don't understand.

- The one remote to operate both devices (i got a Pana BD60 Bluray player too) is quite natty. It uses on screen menus rather than a hundred buttons for both devices on the one remote.

- There is a very slight green tinge look to the image, especially when it is set to "warm". I liked the middle setting myself, it reduced the greenish appearance and looked slightly more natural to me. Being in Canberra, i'm not used to the 'dusty' look of the streets and sky that i thought "warm" delivered. Canberra is crisp and clear typically. So i picked the middle option ("normal").

- I have all "processing" options turned off. Everything seems quite snazzy, i'll experiment with the colour management and stuff later.

LOTR (haven't watched it all) looks great (for a DVD). No judder/jitter or whatever was perceptable. This was played on the Panasonic BD-60 Bluray player so it was upscaled. Of course, it was a little fuzzy, not being HD - but i'm happy to report that my old DVD collection will still be usable!

"Persuasion" 700mb AVI played through Beyonwiz. I thought this would be a lot worse, but it wasn't that bad. Again, the image wasn't very sharp but there was nothing obviously distracting like jerkiness or anything.

Dark Knight BluRay was quite stunning. I didn't notice any judder or jutter or jitter or jumping or anything - it was all smooth and brilliant. The blacks look truly black and everything was really very nice!

My one complaint so far is that i've noticed the panel is slightly mis-aligned. It's about 1.5mm too far to the left, which means that if you sit much left of the best seating position, the far left edge of the image may be obscured. I'm debating about whether to return the TV for a replacement. I will go an have a close look at ones in the shop and see if others have a similar issue first. Also - i want them to order (and have it arrive) my replacement before i take this one back! (if i choose that path). Fortunately, there is really only one seat to the left of 'ideal' in my little abode.

Hey, nice review indeed.

You own a Beyonwiz I think? This can do SD upscaling (to 1080i)?

You can possibly compare the inbuilt tuner (with an SD channel) as against the Beyonwiz upscaling the same SD channel. Be fun to hear how that goes.

Note, Colour Management (from what I know) should always stay off, this stupidly named mode only does damage (no enhancement).

I use Cinema with Warm for all my viewing. Gives me a nice cinematic type feel to things. Usage of Normal also results in a nice picture. Dynamic is hideous though (almost laughably bad).

The first IMAX scene in Dark Knight looks killer indeed on these screens.

Dennis.

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Recusant, before you take the TV back you should first fully confirm you have an issue. You may well not have an issue, e.g. foxtel & free-to-airs don't always fill up all pixels with content (if the Panasonic is in overscan off mode).

My suggestion, burn the free AVS HD 709 disk to a DVD-R (read http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496)

It's a physical thing, the actual panel has been put in the casing slightly too far to the left. On the right hand side of the screen you can see the grey side bit of the screen (not part of the screen). On the left that grey bit is slightly under the black 'surround' of the glass. There's about 3mm of grey on the right, and the left is very slightly tucked under the black surround. To me, that means the panel wasn't put in properly by about 1.5mm. Imperceptable to the right of ideal viewing position.

In the centre viewing position, i only noticed it during the day. But i suspect the left most 1 or 2 pixels are obsucred as a result of the alignment issue.

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Recusant, don't you have a Beyonwiz PVR?

If you do, set the output to 1080i, it will upscale the SD channels to 1080i and there's virtually very little difference between the SD/HD channels then.

After about a month, switch back to the internal TV tuner and watch some SD and you'll feel like someone has smeared the TV with vaseline :P

It's pretty good that way. My Wiz is currently having issues with 10 and ABC for some reason. It works in the guide, but when i go full screen it gets garbled and unwatchable - video corruption and audio clicks and pops. Might be a transmitter issue atm, i'll try again much later.

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