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Recusant

Samsung Ps50b650 Vs Panasonic Th-p50g10a

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No I'm not wrong, most displays don't do what you state Owen.

I know the old Pioneers could take 480i60 input and re-scale that to the native display resolution and redisplay at 72Hz if the original content was derived from a 24fps source (Pure Cinema I think the feature was called).

The Panasonic does NOT do that. 480i60 will be rescaled to native res and the frame-rate will be 60Hz (the same as the input frame-rate).

Same for Sony and most TV brands (60Hz in means 60Hz out, period).

480i60 will result in 3-2 pull-down judder just as the other poster noted.

Samsung, not sure what the Smooth Cinema feature will do, it may do what the Pioneer could...or maybe not, I just don't know :)

Note, my BD-35 Blu-ray player allows me to output NTSC film DVDs as 1080p24, so I get 96Hz from my US derived DVD collection (hehehe) :D :D

Dennis.

NTSC DVD’s encode 24fps progressive content into 60 interlaced fields per second via a process known as “telecine”, 60Hz is the “field rate" NOT the “frame rate”, any display that does not do 3:2 pull down (inverse telecine) to remove the repeated fields and then weave deinterlacing to recreate the original 24 frames per second with such source is either defective or poorly deigned. The display should then refresh at a clean multiple of 24 (48, 72, 92, 120Hz) to avoid “judder”. Jitter will still be present as it is the nature of the low frame rate source.

PAL DVD’s are different, they are encoded with film source sped up 4% to 25frames per second (50Hz interlaced), they only requires simple weave deinterlacing (3:2 pull down or inverse telecine not required) to recover the original 25fps progressive content. Again there will be no judder, but there will be jitter due to the low frame rate. The display must refresh at a clean multiple of 25 (50, 75, 100Hz).

Edited by Owen

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The display should then refresh at a clean multiple of 24 (48, 72, 92, 120Hz) to avoid “judder”. Jitter will still be present as it is the nature of the low frame rate source.

Owen, most displays will NOT do refreshing at a multiple of 24fps if feed a 60Hz signal.

It's the reality of the game :)

Pioneers can do 60Hz input ----> 72Hz refreshing via one of their Pure Cinema modes.

Panasonics will display 60Hz film content as 60Hz (this will mean judder).

Note, so will most other brands (e.g. Sony, etc).

You're noting what a display should "idealy" do (which I agree with by-the-way).

But, as of today, most displays do not do "ideal", that's all I'm saying :)

Feed 480i60 (24fps originating content) into most Plasma/LCD displays, and the result will be 3-2 pull down judder.

To avoid 3-2 pull down judder with most displays (nearly all displays apart from Pioneer) you need to feed 1080p24 AND have the display repeat the 24fps at a nice even multiple (most good displays can do that).

Dennis.

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Owen, most displays will NOT do refreshing at a multiple of 24fps if feed a 60Hz signal.

It's the reality of the game :)

Only a couple of years ago no TV could display 24fps content properly, they all ran 60Hz with or without 3:2 pull down to reconstruct progressive frames properly.

With the advent of Bluray and native 1080p 24 content display manufacturers started to get with the program and provide 24fps support. With the latest crop of 2009 models, which mostly support correct playback of 1080p 24 from Bluray, there is absolutely no excuse for displaying film source from NTSC DVD’s at 60Hz, its simply piss poor engineering if they do and on the more expensive models its inexcusable. The cost of providing effective telecine detection and deinterlacing is obviously too high for the perceived market benefit.

I have no doubt that plenty of TV’s still don’t do what is required, manufactures obviously figure not enough people with notice or care, after all NTSC users have been used to judder all their lives, why change now? <_<

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double-post

Edited by Recusant

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I have no doubt that plenty of TV’s still don’t do what is required, manufactures obviously figure not enough people with notice or care, after all NTSC users have been used to judder all their lives, why change now? <_<

Does that include the Samsungs?

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I am leaning towards the 50G10 now instead of the 50B650 because there seems to be heaps of people with problems with the Samsung. Pity because the Samsung looks much better than the Panasonic (design wise).

I am still a bit on the fence though and haven't jumped yet.

I'm the same - but i think i've finally made up my mind to get the Panasonic - it depends if the local dude gives me the best price - if he doesn't - i'll sit and wait... again :huh:

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Here's my take on the Samsung. (I got a LA55B650 but the feature/menus are identical) (PS58B850 will be delivered to me tomorrow!)

1. DLNA works well. Supports nearly every format you can "download" off the net. The only video I couldn't get it to play was the bluray MKV x264 rips with DTS sound. (It plays the video but not the audio as DTS seems not supported)

2. One awesome feature is the favourite channels button on the remote. You mark your favourite channels as a favourite. Then you can access them very easy using the favourite channel button on the remote. You can also see instantly the EPG for the channels. (Not minutes but like 1 second)

3. Two USB ports with video playback. For some, this is a killer feature. It's also VERY handy for your parents or your wife. (if your wife isn't techy like mine) It can even power a 2.5" external HDD off a single USB port.

4. Plenty of settings to manipulate and calibrate. Has full white balance controls. This is priceless for many.

BTW, 4 of my mates have Samsung 6/7 plasmas. They never had any issues. No buzzing, no screen burn (they don't even know it existed on plasmas).

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Well, i eventually settled on the Panasonic. For me, a TV should last 10+ years and the Panasonics have always had good longevity.

Also, i decided that night viewing was the most important aspect - as i don't watch much TV during the day. And although i liked the Samsung remote, the buttons were 'tiring' to use.

The features of the Samsung are excellent - but they're not part of my plan. I have a PVR that stores my video files.

Mostly, in the end - the reliability of the Panasonic (i hope) and the price - $2900 with 5 year wty and the bonus Wii (which i'll either sell or keep). The Samsung was available for $2700 - but put bluntly - i don't trust it. Surely a more expensive set to make (glass, usb, wireless, DLNA...) - yet it's going cheap - where are the savings?!

Whichever YOU choose - you will be happy - they're both excellent TVs and the current price wars mean good deals are available.

Good luck! :)

ps - thank you to everyone for your advice, comments and questions. This is a tremendous forum!

Edited by Recusant

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Anybody had problems getting audio out from playing divx files from a thumb drive?

I get audio through the TV speakers fine and the movies play back excellently.. Good scaling too.

But I have an optical audio out to my receiver, which works fine for FTA, but on the Media player bit of the TV, no sound?

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Most TVs, the optical audio out is for FTA and usually will only pass through DD2.0. FTA HD content transmitted in DD5.1 will be sent in DD5.1.

Have you tried a DVD player or other device to see if the TV does passthrough any sound?

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Well, i eventually settled on the Panasonic.

Well, well, well...

Congrats Recusant!

Enjoy!

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The Samsungs are not “cheap” the Panasonics are just overpriced here in Oz, both are made as cheaply as possible to maximise profit. People don’t want to pay for real quality, just ask Pioneer.

Edited by Owen

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The Samsungs are not “cheap” the Panasonics are just overpriced here in Oz, both are made as cheaply as possible to maximise profit. People don’t want to pay for real quality, just ask Pioneer.

Of course, but each company makes choices. The Panasonic may have a cheaper de-interlacing circut, but the panel is still made in Japan (supposedly then assembled in China - this is how Kawai makes their pianos).

Like i said - both a good TVs. Maybe the Samsung is slightly technically superior in some respects - but i don't have any regrets choosing the Panasonic. I can take a 1% performance slip for the confidence in an extra few years life (i may not get those extra years, but i think i will - and that gives me piece of mind). I don't buy TVs to upgrade - i buy TVs when the old one is dead. $3k is a LOT of money to me. It's more than the value of my car.

I feel content :)

If it arrives broken - i will kill you all :lol:

Edited by Recusant

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Of course, but each company makes choices. The Panasonic may have a cheaper de-interlacing circut, but the panel is still made in Japan (supposedly then assembled in China - this is how Kawai makes their pianos).

The SD de-intelacer is nasty as (ironically for really bad SD it is a benefit).

It with Blu-ray that this set really shines. 1080p24 content (no de-interlacing mumbo jumbo) will result in 96Hz of goodness that very few can resist :)

Use that same Panasonic BD-60 to output 1080p24 from your NTSC film DVDs as well :)

If it arrives broken - i will kill you all :lol:

Ok, I know where not to be in that event.

Hey when you get the set all going please report back ok, warts, niceties and all.

Good luck.

Dennis.

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Well, i eventually settled on the Panasonic. For me, a TV should last 10+ years and the Panasonics have always had good longevity.

Yeah I just got my 50" G10 as well last week, very happy with it and reliability *touch wood* was definitely a factor in my decision. I mean our old 80cm Panasonic CRT which is neaarly 10 years old just won't die, hasn't missed a beat LOL. I reckon if there was a nuclear war there would be only the cockroaches left and my Panny 80cm CRT LOL. Palmed it off to the kids anyhow and will connect the free Wii to that. Don't want my 5yr old putting a Wii controller through the new Plasma! :D

Edited by runningmanz

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Anybody had problems getting audio out from playing divx files from a thumb drive?

I get audio through the TV speakers fine and the movies play back excellently.. Good scaling too.

But I have an optical audio out to my receiver, which works fine for FTA, but on the Media player bit of the TV, no sound?

hmmm. Your post on the optical out on the B650 is a bit of a worry. I also have the B650 and I want the TV to talk to my DNLA NAS. I then want to be able to run optical out from the TV to my AV reciever for the audio from music and video stored on the NAS.

I assume the analogue audio-outs work when you get info from the USb drive?

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hmmm. Your post on the optical out on the B650 is a bit of a worry. I also have the B650 and I want the TV to talk to my DNLA NAS. I then want to be able to run optical out from the TV to my AV reciever for the audio from music and video stored on the NAS.

I assume the analogue audio-outs work when you get info from the USb drive?

There's a menu item to direct sound to an external device (instead of the TVs speakers) - do you have to switch to that perhaps?

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Samsung PS50B650 vs Panasonic TH-P50G10A

I'm not an expert, not even close, but i've come to appreciate some pros and cons of these two TVs that i thought i'd share (in one place - 'cause my thoughts are scattered everywhere) that may help other noobs who are looking at 50" plasmas. This is not a Plasma vs LCD debate, both TVs on my shortlist are Plasmas.

Of course, this is entirely personal opinions - there is no science here :) Looking at the list, it's hard to say no to the Samsung - however - I cannot find any "head to head" reviews about the single most important aspect - THE PICTURE QUALITY!

* = Someone else has reported as so, elsewhere on this forum.

Samsung Pros

- ALL lights can be turned off - why more TVs/AVRs/DVD/Bluray players don't do this is a mystery to me.

- Looks - the unit is much more attractive than the Panasonic

- Menus - they look good, and they operate well

- DLNA (Wireless) with pretty good format support

- USB support for multimedia content.. though i'm not sure which formats are supported

- Remote - more comfortable and intuitive than the Panasonic - AND is backlit!

- "ambient light rejection" - Better than the Panasonic for daytime viewing* (some kind of screen filter)*

- Cheaper than the Panasonic^

- SD performance*

- Deinterlacing ("i" content?)*

Samsung Cons

- Bezel is hard up against the screen, so there could some reflection issues

- Glass bezel, though attractive, could have been a little more compact

- Glass bezel can also be reflective (people walking around/behind you, lights reflect off it more than the Panasonic)

- Brand new, can't find diddly squat reviews on it (What Hi-Fi are said to be having a review of the 42" 6 series in their next issue due out in July - just in time to miss out on the Panasonic free Wii promotion). There is one review i read, but it's not particularly technical, and although i don't understand that stuff - i do understand that they know what they're talking about and rate the PQ accordingly. Simply saying "oh it looks good, with nice blacks" means nothing without measuring equipment.

- slow EPG loading (minutes?)

Panasonic Pros

- Much better sound than the Samsung (considerably)

- Screen has a black surround before the bezel begins, reducing the likelihood of reflections from the picture itself.

- Essentially European spec display settings*

- Conservative, compact design (though not as pretty as the Samsung)

- No flicker* (something about 96Hz or something?!)

- Oz version has the apparently necessary Gamma and colour controls (to get the most out of the picture)*

- Though every region in the world appears to have a slightly different TV (US has THX, ours doesn't, UK version doesn't have white balance and Gamma controls, ours does), this TV has been out for a couple of months and so hopefully any bugs/issues have been tidied up for the Oz release.

- SD Performance

- Fast EPG loading (couple of seconds)

Panasonic Cons

- Menus - They look 10 years old and are a little clumsy to use with the...

- Remote - nothing particularly wrong with it, just not as immediately intuitive or comfortable as the Samsung's remote - and not backlit (Sammy's is).

- Cooling fans - though i don't know if the Samsung has fans (i prefer passive cooling if at all possible).

- Could be prettier

- More expensive than the Samsung^

In summary, the Samsung is feature-rich, and to be honest hard to overlook. For me, the sound is a BIG issue, as i watch a lot of TV without the hi-fi turned on. But the appearance, remote and controls on the Samsung are just so sweet that it makes me want it. Its really simply up to whether or not its a good enough picture... or is it?

^ Though the RRP on the Samsung is cheaper, Myer (in particular) are doing some great deals on the Panasonic. I was offered $2900 which includes the $25 Wii and 4 years extended warranty - taking the warranty to 5 years. I suspect the Panasonic retail margins are greater than the Samsung, which gives more "impressive" discounting on the floor - clever marketing if that's true. People think they're getting a more expensive TV for the same price as the cheaper one (when both are discounted).

Does the Panasonic have the Viera Cast that the US models have or do they not have Ethernet port at all??

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Does the Panasonic have the Viera Cast that the US models have or do they not have Ethernet port at all??

Panasonic G-series has no Viera Cast and no Ethernet.

The step up V-series and Z-series appear not to have that capability either (from the Panasonic web-site).

Basically, not for Australia this time around.

Dennis.

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Panasonic G-series has no Viera Cast and no Ethernet.

The step up V-series and Z-series appear not to have that capability either (from the Panasonic web-site).

Basically, not for Australia this time around.

Dennis.

Regarding picture-in-picture capability, I looked through a downloaded G-series manual and couldn't find any mention of this function (or any evidence of a button on the remote to activate it). I recall it being mentioned elsewhere in this forum that Panasonic appears to have removed this function across their TV range (expect possibily from their LCD TVs). Does anyone know if this is also the case for the V and Z series? Thanks.

Edited by dvdnovice

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Regarding picture-in-picture capability, I looked through a downloaded G-series manual and couldn't find any mention of this function (or any evidence of a button on the remote to activate it). I recall it being mentioned elsewhere in this forum that Panasonic appears to have removed this function across their TV range (expect possibily from their LCD TVs). Does anyone know if this is also the case for the V and Z series? Thanks.

I don't believe the G and V at least has PIP. It wasn't something i cared about so i'm not positive, but nothing i've read says it has it.

Edited by Recusant

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Panasonic G-series has no Viera Cast and no Ethernet.

The step up V-series and Z-series appear not to have that capability either (from the Panasonic web-site).

Basically, not for Australia this time around.

This is amazing if correct as their new Bluray players (BD60/BD80) have this functionality...though the streaming is very hit and miss with it buffering all the time.

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This is amazing if correct as their new Bluray players (BD60/BD80) have this functionality...though the streaming is very hit and miss with it buffering all the time.

yes...the Blu Ray players (BD60/80) have this functionality and somehow i prefer it this way...but that's just me :)

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I don't believe the G and V at least has PIP. It wasn't something i cared about so i'm not positive, but nothing i've read says it has it.

Thanks Recusant. Another thing for me to consider (the Samsung does have limited PiP functionality)

Are you happy with your choice of the Panasonic over the Samsung?

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