Freeview Faq (updated July 2010)

[pgdownload]

Freeview

What is a Freeview ‘box’?

In this post references to a ‘box’ include anything with a digital tuner, eg STB, Plasma, LCD, Digital DVD Recorder, PVR, HTPC, etc. Note that not everything with a digital tuner can be labelled Freeview. Read on…

I have a Freeview box but I can't see the enhanced EPG?

Read below on Freeview Phase1 and Phase 2. In general, any Freeview boxes bought before July 2010 have not been designed to receive this new EPG and its features. After this date, only new Freeview models will be able to access it. They will also will be prominently badged as being able to.

What is Freeview? FreeTV?

FreeTV is an industry body comprising all commercial free to air (FTA) metropolitan and regional networks in Australia. Seven, Nine, Ten, Win, SC10, etc. Whilst having an interest in Freeview they are not directly related.

Freeview is a brand name. Equipment bearing the Freeview badge will have been certified by to comply with certain requirements (see below) for digital equipment. All commercial and government networks are affiliated with the Freeview product.

What is FreeView trying to achieve with this brand?

The Freeview brand has a number of goals it is trying to achieve. Most broadly they

1) Want to inform Australians about the upcoming analogue shutdown

2) Encourage Australians to buy digital capable equipment for watching FTA.

3) Include future technologies (MPEG4) in current boxes to ease the next digital transition.

4) Limit the introduction/desirability of equipment that can skip ads.

5) Ensure broadcast recordings cannot be transferred to a PC (or duplicated) if networks flag a show as such.

6) Ensure broadcast recordings cannot be made if networks flag a show as such.

7) Limit ad skipping to FF and REW only (x30 speed) and ensure ads cannot be skipped if networks flag an ad as such.

Freeview and the Government’s Digital Ready label campaign?

As part of the analogue shut down awareness campaign the government has released three labels to indicate various levels of digital capability. This (completely separate) campaign is designed to provide a simple way to ensure people are aware of their digital options when making a new purchase. Note that the Digital Ready campaign focuses only on equipment’s ability to receive and display current digital broadcasts. It does not concern itself with additional features like the Freeview EPG or MPEG4 capability etc.

FWIW Freeview boxes will have a Digital Ready (High Definition) label.

What benefits/drawbacks does Freeview offer?

Freeview box

• Can display all HD and SD digital channels

• Will be able to handle MPEG4 broadcasts when they eventually appear

• Can provide access to both the FTA EPG and Freeview EPG

• Should provide access to the Freeview EPG (If optional MHEG5 compliant)

• Will not have ad skip capability (REW and FF at x30)

• Must have DRM to (potentially) stop recordings being offloaded.

• Must respect broadcast flags that will prevent ads being FF through.

Standard box

• Can display all HD and/or SD channels depending on tuner type (HD or SD)

• Might be able to handle MPEG4 broadcasts when they eventually appear

• Can provide access to the FTA EPG but not the Freeview EPG

• Can have ad skip capability

• No limitations on being able to download recordings to a PC

What requirements and capabilities must Freeview boxes have?

Freeview have not fully disclosed all of their specifications to the public. However largely Freeview boxes will comprise:

1) Standard Definition (SD) and High Definition (HD) capability.

2) Ability to receive MHEG5 signals to display the standardised Freeview EPG (see below)

3) The box must be capable of receiving MPEG4 transmissions (see below)

4) The box must have no ad skip capability although fast forward to x30 is allowed (see below)

5) The box must have the ability to implement Digital Rights Management (DRM) - offloading content will be controlled.

Freeview and DRM

While not known for sure, indications are that Freeview require all branded boxes to have the capability (if the broadcaster wants),to flag a show as not transferable off the recording device. Several early model Freeview PVRs (Topfield, Beyonwiz, etc.) achieved this by simply removing any ability to offload content to a PC. Less drastically, the Tivo allows such transfers using a home network package. To date no network has flagged something in this way.

In general, the industry wide approach to making copies of recordings appears to be to allow SD quality versions but prohibit HD quality versions. It has always been possible to record any content on a PVR by attaching an analogue recorder (eg DVDR) - final picture quality will be SD.

Will a Freeview box cost more than a non-Freeview box?

Freeview certification is apparently provided at no charge. But there are additional costs associated with building a Freeview box that a standard box can avoid. These include including an MPEG4 chipset, paying royalties for the EPG format (Confirmed at $6 per box) and providing MHEG5 capabilities. There are also costs associated with developing firmware to handle the new functionality. Manufacturers have apparently agreed to foot the bill for these costs. To date Freeview and non Freeview models of the same box are usually closely priced with Freeview models usually cheaper than the non-Freeview ones.

Freeview “Channels”

There has been a lot of confusion about just what channels a Freeview box will be able to receive. In this regard Freeview boxes are absolutely no different from a non-Freeview High Definition (HD) digital box. Every FTA channel will be available to both types of equipment. Obviously Standard Definition (SD) digital boxes will only be able to receive the SD channels broadcast.

Freeview was criticised for implying it offers up to 15 new channels. Most of the new channels are already here (if you have a digital box). Until recently most networks had 1 SD channel (a simulcast of the alalogue version) and 1 HD channel (sometimes offering unique content, but usually just a better PQ version of the SD channel). ABC2 was a notable exception. Networks are now providing 2 SD channels and 1 HD channel. By the end of 2010 all three channels are expected to be showing different content. The ABC is also offering a 24 hr news channel and another channel dedicated to children's programming.

What is the Freeview EPG? What is the Free To Air (FTA) EPG?

Note that many boxes released with the Freeview brand are not be able to view the Freeview EPG (see below about MHEG5)

Currently many boxes provide access to an on screen Electronic Program Guide (EPG). This FTA EPG generally covers 5-7 days of future programming on most channels. Its on screen format is entirely up to individual manufacturers. Digital recording devices (eg PVRs) can usually browse the FTA EPG and use it to set timers with a single press of a button. The FTA EPG is largely the same as what is provided in paper TV guides (in particular, air times are fixed and can often not match actual start and finish times).

The Freeview EPG is possibly the most defined (potential) benefit of buying a Freeview branded box. This EPG will have a consistent format and functionality across all digital equipment but in many respects be similar to the FTA EPG.

The capabilities of the Freeview EPG should continue to improve in years to come. In July 2010 Freeview began broadcasting its new EPG although no boxes on the market (including current Freeview branded models) have been able to display the EPG or take advantage of its potential benefits:

• Including more detailed or accurate information on repeats, actors, extended information, etc.

• The Freeview EPG will include up to the minute accurate information about what’s playing.

• Ability to dynamically extend recordings if shows run over time.

• Series links to enable a single button to automatically record an entire season.

It is also possible (although unlikely) that the FTA EPG will include similar advances.

• FreeTV have indicated the Freeview EPG and FTA EPG will be drawn from the same basic database.

• FreeTV have indicated that the FTA EPG will continue to be broadcast after the Freeview EPG is launched.

• It is likely that the Freeview EPG will not be broadcast until much later in the year (if not 2010).

What about ad skipping?

Central to the Freeview brand is the requirement that all boxes must not have the ability to skip ads. Note that for obvious reasons Freeview (and some sales staff) will obviously not be highlighting this aspect of Freeview branded machines

By skip, Freeview are referring to the ability to jump without hesitation forward or back a defined amount (eg +/-3 minutes or +/- 10 seconds) thus never seeing any in between content (eg ads)

Freeview boxes will however still be able to Fast Forward and Rewind (at up to x30 speed). They will also be able to resume play (continue from where a recording was last stopped) and also likely have some very coarse ability to jump (say at fixed 10% intervals).

In theory a user will be able to FF through a 3 minute block of ads in around 30 seconds on a Freeview branded machine.

When will Freeview boxes be available?

Many smaller manufacturers now have Freeview models (usually just the non-Freeview model with ad skipping and file transfers disabled). The popular Tivo is also Freeview compliant. So far none of the major manufacturers (Sony, LG, Phillips, etc.) have bought out Freeview models, however this may change now that the Freeview EPG has finally been launched.

What is MHEG5, MPEG2 and MPEG4?

Suffice to say MHEG5 is a protocol/language that used to broadcast interactive text, image and video compositions (i.e. ideal for displaying an EPG). Freeview boxes require MHEG5 capability to display their EPG. Initially not all Freeview boxes will have MHEG5 capability (See below Freeview Phase1 and Freeview Phase2)

MPEG2 is the digital protocol currently being used to broadcast digital TV throughout Australia. All digital boxes (Freeview and non-Freeview) can receive and display MPEG2 broadcasts.

MPEG4 is mooted as the eventual successor to MPEG2. It provides a better image quality while using a significantly smaller amount of bandwidth (allowing more or higher quality channels to be broadcast). It is up to the Australian government to determine when MPEG4 broadcasts can begin. It is unlikely that anything will be broadcast in MPEG4 for at least 5-10 years. However Freeview hope to encourage embedding this technology in many boxes to make this transition much easier than the current analogue to MPEG2 change over.

Note that many non-Freeview boxes currently have or will have MPEG4 capability already.

Freeview Phase1 and Freeview Phase2 - Beware

To enable manufacturers to get products on to the market as quickly as possible, Freeview is not making MHEG5 capability mandatory until the end of 2011. There is also no requirement to prominently indicate a Freeview box is Phase1 or Phase2 compliant. It is possible some boxes will be able to be upgraded (via firmware update) to MHEG5 capability later on however this is not definite. Without MHEG5 boxes will have no access to the Freeview EPG (however they will still have access to the FTA EPG).

In general, any Freeview boxes bought before July 2010 have not been designed to receive the enhanced Freeview EPG and its features. After this date, only new Freeview models will be able to access it. They will also will be prominently badged as being able to.

So What to Buy?

After an initial flurry of Freeview (Phase 1) products in 2009, manufacturers appear to be taking stock. Now that the long awaited Freeview EPG has begun broadcasting its likely a new round of Freeview (Phase 2) boxes will be launched in the second half of 2010.

As mentioned, currently only Tivo (and the new Telstra TBox) offer a Freeview EPG like experience. Note that Tivo uses its own version of the Freeview EPG that is provided via a broadband connection. It is probably IMO that Tivo will not provide the official Freeview interface as this would interfere with its own operations too much. It will apparently be implementing the Freeview extended recording feature at a later date.

MPEG4 capability while future proofing to some extent is probably not a big deal for most current purchases. By time MPEG4 is ever broadcast in this country (5-10+ years) most boxes bought today will likely have been replaced. Its inclusion at this time is just to try maximise MPEG4’s eventual ubiquity – not a bad thing.

In practice it will make sense that many STBs and TVs will be Freeview compatible. On such devices an EPG is of less importance and the FTA EPG is likely to be quite up to the task of browsing for what’s on tonight. TVs and STBs will also suffer none of the Freeview restrictions. STBs are now cheap and there is little variation in their capabilities. Grab a Freeview model if possible (although preferably it should be a Phase 2 model now) but getting a non-Freeview model has few if any drawbacks either.

For an expensive ($1000+) TV the choice is probably a little harder. IMO purchasing a TV should come down to its price, picture and audio quality (even its aesthetics) before Freeview comes into the equation. After all you’ll be looking at broadcast shows a lot more than the Freeview EPG. So I’d suggest viewing Freeview branding in this area as a bonus but nothing more.

Where the choice becomes significant is in the digital recording arena. In large part it’s the emergence of this technology that has forced FreeTV to try and provide a desirable counter to boxes that enable ad skipping. In many instances manufacturers will be offering identical models with Freeview and non-Freeview (ad skipping) capabilities. It will be up to the customer which functionality is more advantageous to them. Will Freeview end up being a household term? Stay tuned…

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited July 6, 2010 by pgdownload

[diesel]

Great work as usual Peter!

Don't you have a day job???

The only obvious thing that seems to be missing is a mention of their branding to try an compete against Pay TV by slowing customer churn and offering an alternative

What is FreeView trying to achieve with this brand?

FreeTV have a number of goals they are trying to achieve with Freeview. Most broadly they

1) Want to inform Australians about the upcoming analogue shutdown

2) Encourage Australians to buy digital capable equipment for watching FTA.

3) Include future technologies in current boxes to ease the next digital transition.

4) Limit the introduction/desirability of equipment that can skip ads.

But mostly they want to

5) Provide a unambiguous way to identify digital equipment that they believe is best suited to receiving digital broadcasts now and into the future (5+ years on)

[ford]

Nothing about an increase in program quality.

The people running these stations do not have a [will not say it] clue.

As I have stated before as soon as[if] Austar broadcasts in HD then its goodby to FTA.

Rubbish is rubbish no matter what it is wrapped in.

Thank heavens for the ABC and SBS.

[dax]

Nice idea - but you got your first fact wrong.

FreeTV is the commercial stations (from their website) "Free TV is an industry body which represents all of Australia's commercial free-to-air television licencees." They then list the major groups with no mention of ABC or SBS

http://www.freetv.com.au/

So it doesnt include the ABC or SBS (although they do come together for some technical codes)

Freeview is effectively independent of FreeTV, I believe its even headed by someone from the ABC.

So Freeview is both the brand name as well as the term for the joint body that manages the brand.

Edited April 28, 2009 by dax

[diesel]

Nothing about an increase in program quality.

The people running these stations do not have a [will not say it] clue.

As I have stated before as soon as[if] Austar broadcasts in HD then its goodby to FTA.

Rubbish is rubbish no matter what it is wrapped in.

Thank heavens for the ABC and SBS.

Putting aside the lack of decent programming, PG is trying to create an FAQ here to help those that have not previously considered what FreeView is, and want some background as provided by their peers and not some industry spin.

[ozdoc]

Freeview is effectively independent of FreeTV, I believe its even headed by someone from the ABC.

Yes. This was confirmed by Robyn Parkes (head of Freeview) in an interview that has been made for TiVo owners (if they bother to download the 320mb).

(It also 'features' Robbee from TiVo, and the Gadget Guy runs the interview, so the level of journalistic probing is somewhat limited.)

[ford]

Putting aside the lack of decent programming, PG is trying to create an FAQ here to help those that have not previously considered what FreeView is, and want some background as provided by their peers and not some industry spin.

If you need it in plain English.

Freeview = Rubbish.

[pgdownload]

Don't you have a day job???

How else do you think I'd find time to get stuff like this done? Took half the day on and off.

Thanks for the feed back so far (been off visiting relations). Interesting to see FreeTV is not formally associated with the government channels. Will update things tommorrow.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Jake07]

MPEG4 capability while future proofing to some extent is probably not a big deal for most current purchases. By time MPEG4 is ever broadcast in this country (5-10+ years) most boxes bought today will likely have been replaced. Its inclusion at this time is just to try maximise MPEG4’s eventual ubiquity – not a bad thing.

When looking at two Strong branded HD settop boxes just prior to Christmas I noted that there was a significant price difference between the MPEG2 only and the MPEG4 model:

SRT 5405 (MPEG-2 Compliant) for $99

vs

SRT 5410 (MPEG-4 HD/H.264 Compliant) for $200+

Admittedly the MPEG2 only model was on special (reduced from $139) at Myer, but I thought that it was still a bit steep to pay that much extra for something you can't even use (for 5-10+ years, or maybe never). Might be worth it if the particular device can use the onboard MPEG4 decoder for something other than live DVB/T streams e.g. media player function. Perhaps in time as MPEG4 chipset support grows the price difference will go down, but I think you're right about the timeframe (5 years at least for Australia) and there could be something else that comes along in that time that supersedes MPEG4.

Nicely detailed FAQ. Thanks.

[diesel]

Might just have been the difference between an older runout model and a newer model.

[Basil1503559642]

Early Days and it won't(IMPO) be until analogue is turned off that all of Freeview's objectives will become clear but i think that it must (under objectives or goals)also fall into the category of a Industry Lobby group, telling Govt. what they want instead of the other way around,i think the Stokes v Packer(&the Ten guy) battle re DVT Specs. has taught them a lesson in dealing with Govt.'s.

[diesel]

First Freeview-branded equipment goes on sale

Digital body Freeview unveiled the first range of Freeview-compatible equipment today at Dick Smith's George St store in Sydney, aiming to also educate customers about the benefits of digital television.

At launch, products that will sport Freeview logos come from Beyonwiz, TiVo, DGTEC, Kogan, LG and Sony. While most manufacturers were in attendance, missing from the day were representatives from Panasonic and Samsung. However, while Panasonic is officially participating, Ms Parkes told CNET Australia that she was meeting with Samsung this week to discuss future Freeview branding

[Basil1503559642]

I know its been mentioned elsewhere but i'll throw it Peter's Thread as i feel its relevant.

Quote"MPEG4

Next the technologies. It was a surprise to find MPEG4 made compulsory in every Freeview-branded device, given that we don't have MPEG4 broadcasts in Australia, more efficient as they would be."

"The networks are currently broadcasting material using MPEG2," Ms Parkes told us, following by the amazing statement: "Sometime in the future, they will begin transmitting in MPEG4. It is at the discretion of the individual broadcasters when they will switch over."

http://www.avhub.com.au/NewsArticle.aspx?M...sArticleID=1277

Edited April 30, 2009 by Basil

[Grrrrr]

"It was a surprise to find MPEG4 made compulsory in every Freeview-branded device, given that we don't have MPEG4 broadcasts in Australia, more efficient as they would be."

The problem with MPEG4 is that it contains about 20 different Parts (or standards) and no-one's talking about which ones should be supported.

What really needs to happen is a plan for future codec technology updates. Decide what needs to stay fixed for the next couple of decades, and decide what can change.

EG, "SD-rate MPEG2 will be used until 2030 for one channel from each broadcaster. Every 5 years the govt will pick the latest, greatest codecs and other features, and the broadcasters will switch to that for their HD channel(s) 3 years later."

Let consumers, broadcasters and manufacturers know what to expect, so they can plan accordingly.

[alanh]

Grrrr,

Digital television—Requirements for receivers Part 1: VHF/UHF DVB-T television broadcasts (Revision of AS 4933.1—2005) is currently being updated to include HD MPEG4 H264 part 10.

This is the standard used by Blu-ray, Foxtel HD and New Zealand terrestrial DTV.

Since the MPEG standards are downward compatible, you could transmit MPEG2 and MPEG4 together from the same transmitter at the same time. For example ABC3 in MPEG4 could be added to ABCHD, ABC2 and ABC1 which are all in MPEG2.

Both the transmission and receiver standards include the ability to over the air firmware updates.

MHEG-5 interactivity is optional, however this is from the draft, so to find out what ends up in the standard we will have to wait.

AlanH

[diesel]

From Sound+Image

Freeview boxes were on hand from brands including Strong Technologies, Topfield, TiVo, Beyonwiz, DGTEC, and Arista Electronics. So what does the Freeview brand mean in terms of technology?

Ad skip & archiving

First the negatives. It’s a requirement that no ad-skip button is allowed, something the networks are desperate to achieve, since a nation of ad-skipping PVR users could seriously undermine advertising revenues. Despite the non-disclosure agreement imposed on manufacturers, Freeview was pleasingly forthcoming about this, CEO Robin Parkes writing to Sound+Image that “Free-to-air television is funded by advertising revenue. These specifications are put in place to ensure great quality television continues to be FREE to readers.” Fast-forwarding up to 30x is permitted.

Exporting of recordings for archiving will be allowed, she confirms, but only if suitably encrypted to prevent redistribution on the internet or outside the home. It’s not clear yet what encryption would conveniently allow this, and most machines are expected to simply prevent even local archiving.

No firmware updates?

Another issue arises from Freeview’s required certification process for all branded equipment. Once granted, that certification applies only to a specific make or model, and even to specific software versions. After any change, including software, manufacturers have to entirely re-certify. If implemented, that would make firmware updates prohibitively difficult for any Freeview-branded equipment, so no bug fixes, and none of the on-the-fly improvements that are such a highlight of many brands.

MPEG4

Next the technologies. It was a surprise to find MPEG4 made compulsory in every Freeview-branded device, given that we don’t have MPEG4 broadcasts in Australia, more efficient as they would be.

“The networks are currently broadcasting material using MPEG2,” Ms Parkes told us, following by the amazing statement: “Sometime in the future, they will begin transmitting in MPEG4. It is at the discretion of the individual broadcasters when they will switch over.”

Actually a switch-over would also be at the Government’s discretion, given that switching off MPEG2 transmissions would render nearly all existing digital TVs, set-top boxes and PVRs redundant. That was the story broken by Peter Familari in the Herald Sun, which was widely misinterpreted as a scare story that all digital TVs would be made redundant on May 1st when Freeview boxes launched. In fact he was largely on the money. It is unthinkable that broadcasters could switch off MPEG2 transmissions any time soon, and Communications Minister Stephen Conroy confirmed that the government “currently” has no plans to mandate MPEG-4 standards. Yet Shaun Brown, MD at SBS, is on record as saying that its three-year strategy to add two more channels is not possible unless SBS adopts MPEG-4. He suggests MPEG2 could go on for ever, with parallel MPEG4 broadcasts to start when the networks are ready.

This might be possible using ‘retired’ analogue TV frequencies as digital switchover progresses, although such redundancy rather mocks the supposed goal of efficiency.

We should here include an apology to Strong Technologies, which introduced an MPEG4 unit last year, claiming the change in broadcast standards could happen imminently, an assertion which we somewhat lambasted at the time. Now the company is looking distinctly ahead of the ball.

MHEG5

Further questions surround MHEG5, a programming language (or ‘middleware’) that Freeview hopes to make compulsory in a “second phase” of Freeview devices initially slated for October 2009. But at the time of writing, Freeview has yet to obtain its MHEG5 licence, its negotiations perhaps complicated, as writer Adam Turner has noted, by Freeview telling everyone they intend to use it. While early Freeview devices without MHEG5 will never be able to access these advanced features, Freeview will allow Phase 1 equipment to retain Freeview branding until February 2012.

Freeview is explaining MHEG5 as allowing a common styling of program guide, though since it has also confirmed that this merely a skin using the EPG information already available, MHEG5 must surely figure more prominently in onoing plans. Certainly it could allow ‘season’ recording and IceTV/TiVo-like targeting of particular directors and actors. MHEG can also switch (under broadcaster control) between running video streams in the same multiplex, so it could enable multiple views (of sports, say), as well as interactive and (whisper it quiet) pay-per-view services. It’s possible that great attraction lies in MHEG5’s ability to have web-like advertisements embedded in the EPG and elsewhere, since MHEG5 includes a subset of HTML. Such ads, including home shopping, could counterbalance a decline in traditional broadcast advertising.

So is there any advantage in a Freeview-branded unit to outweigh some obvious negatives? Yes, if the MPEG4 switchover were ever to occur, since Freeview boxes are futureproofed against it. In terms of price, the additional technology may drive up Freeview-branded prices, but if they sell in large quantities, that could bring them back down. And Phase 2 units (or Phase 1 units including MHEG5) may gain advanced features in future (though TiVo owners have recently been stung badly with such promises arriving only at a big price).

We are currently gathering Freeview-branded boxes, and will report our findings in ongoing issues.

[milkafromdtv]

Haha!!! What a joke. I've been waiting to buy a Freespew STB for the folks for a while, as I figure the Freeview EPG might make it a bit easier for them to navigate the scary new world. Went into DSE Powerhouse at Southland on the weekend and there was the Topfield TBF-7110 for the bargain price of only $279. Stupid thing is, this only supports Freeview Phase 1, which means, correct me if I'm wrong, that it lacks the MHEG5 capabilities that the Freeview EPG will require! What a debacle!

Does anyone know of a MPEG4 and MHEG5 compliant STB out there (STB only, not PVR), for a reasonable price (up to $200)? If I can't find one, might just go the Strong 5405 until this technology is a bit more common and affordable.

Cheers,

milka

[GTO]

I have a 2 year old Toshiba 47" HDTV 1080i, with inbuilt HD tuner, also a Panasonic DMERX87 DVD player/recorder.

I'm getting 1 HD, & apparently all other HD stuff....so will I get Freeview with my current equipment?

Cheers, GTO.

[diesel]

Went into DSE Powerhouse at Southland on the weekend and there was the Topfield TBF-7110 for the bargain price of only $279. Stupid thing is, this only supports Freeview Phase 1, which means, correct me if I'm wrong, that it lacks the MHEG5 capabilities that the Freeview EPG will require! What a debacle!

That's the point I guess that Peter is trying to make people aware of. this whole Freeview thing is too new ATM and has too many unanswered questions for anybody to confidently recommend any Freeview branded gear as a good buy.

I have a 2 year old Toshiba 47" HDTV 1080i, with inbuilt HD tuner, also a Panasonic DMERX87 DVD player/recorder.

I'm getting 1 HD, & apparently all other HD stuff....so will I get Freeview with my current equipment?

GTO, your geat will continue to work as is and continue to recieve the MPEG2 DVB-T broadcasts. This will need to be supported long after your gear gives up the ghost. ao you have nothing to worry about. What it does mean thiugh, is that you may not recieve any extra features that may be delivered via MPEG4 or via the MHEG5 EPG.

[Mr_Independent]

If you need it in plain English.

Freeview = Rubbish.

and ABC and SBS = Boring!

[Pelican]

and ABC and SBS = Boring!

What, because they don't show wishy washy 3rd rate American shows?

[dax]

Still has a lot of FreeTV references that are wrong.

Bit silly saying "FreeTV have indicated" when its Freeview and that the head of the consortium is from the ABC!!

Maybe mention that Freeview is a consortium as well as a marketing brand.

Then its possible to say 'Freeview have indicated"

[pgdownload]

Maybe mention that Freeview is a consortium as well as a marketing brand. Then its possible to say 'Freeview have indicated"

The behind the scenes interrelations are a mess. IMO trying to explain them is more likely to confuse than inform. Ultimately it would seem enough to know the networks are behind FreeTV which is the group behind Freeview and Freeview is the brand you'll see in store.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Pelican]

Bit silly saying "FreeTV have indicated" when its Freeview and that the head of the consortium is from the ABC!!

FreeTV Australia and Freeview are 2 different animals.

FreeTV comprises of ONLY commercial channels and their regional counterparts. http://www.freetv.com.au/Content_Common/pg...ion-Members.seo

Freeview includes both commercial and government stations.

Cheers

[pgdownload]

Ok, So what we're saying is that FreeTV have nothing to do with Freeview directly. If so then I'll simply remove reference to FreeTV?

Regards

Peter Gillespie