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VAF I-93MkII Audition


Craigandkim

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Anyway do you know where the drivers in your DCX are made? Do you know why they put felts all over the speaker?.

No, I don't know where their drivers come from, why don't you just tell us seeing that you seem to know all about VAF.

Does it really matter where a driver comes from if the sound of the 'whole' is to ones liking?

I compared the DCX's to another Adelaide made speaker and a couple from the UK and for the money, at the time. the VAF's were the best fit for me.

So I don't give a toss where certain parts of my speakers comes from.

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Guest VladimirFreddie
This is exactly what my point is. Just because you say something negative about 'vaf' ALL 'vaf' customers come out and justify their speakers. I would put you guys in the BOSE category. We all know that or should I say those that knows hifi knows that BOSE is very very average but yet people still buy them. Because they don't know any better or are just... .Anyway do you know where the drivers in your DCX are made? Do you know why they put felts all over the speaker? Phone vaf & they will explain them to you & then you can post on here.

Yes, I do know why VAF put felt around the drivers. Pretty much the same reason as Duntech, Sonique (as well as Dunlavy used to). If you are using first order crossovers with drivers stepped back into the box so they are time aligned something it needs to absorb diffraction effects. I don't own DCXs.

Dynaudio do make some excellent speakers. But I prefer the sound of the speakers that I have in my system. Not better or worse, simply the ones I prefer.

But in any case why do you need to know any of this to find out which speaker you prefer?

Surely the only criteria for deciding which speaker you prefer is to listen to them?

Cheers

Edited by VladimirFreddie
can't spell
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Guest VladimirFreddie

The other point is that if you really want to promote Dynaudio I'm thinking that perhaps the "VAF forum" isn't the most appropriate forum?

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This is exactly what my point is. Just because you say something negative about 'vaf' ALL 'vaf' customers come out and justify their speakers. I would put you guys in the BOSE category. We all know that or should I say those that knows hifi knows that BOSE is very very average but yet people still buy them. Because they don't know any better or are just... .Anyway do you know where the drivers in your DCX are made? Do you know why they put felts all over the speaker? Phone vaf & they will explain them to you & then you can post on here.

I am a 'vaf' customer and have no need to justify my speakers. They jusitfy themselves. To say you would put me in the BOSE category, well I find that highly offensive. I'm scratching to find out where you are coming from. Many vaf customers including myself come from the audio engineering world, where high quality and accurate speakers are a necessity.... you wouldn't find BOSE speakers in any recording or mastering studio as you do VAF. You seem to insinuate that vaf customers buy for the name or the image and have no idea about audio.

Comparing BOSE to VAF is like comparing a Kia Cerato to an Aston Martin DB9.

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Guest VladimirFreddie
I am a 'vaf' customer and have no need to justify my speakers. They jusitfy themselves. To say you would put me in the BOSE category, well I find that highly offensive. I'm scratching to find out where you are coming from. Many vaf customers including myself come from the audio engineering world, where high quality and accurate speakers are a necessity.... you wouldn't find BOSE speakers in any recording or mastering studio as you do VAF. You seem to insinuate that vaf customers buy for the name or the image and have no idea about audio.

Comparing BOSE to VAF is like comparing a Kia Cerato to an Aston Martin DB9.

+1

I couldn't agree more

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Excite X36

Excite X32Excite X16Excite X12Excite X22 CenterSensitivity89 dB (2,83 V/1 m)87 dB (2,83 V/1 m)87 dB (2,83 V/1 m)86 dB (2,83 V/1 m)86 dB (2,83 V/1 m) IEC Power handling 250 W200 W150 W150 W150 W Impedance4 Ohms4 Ohms4 Ohms4 Ohms4 Ohms Frequency Response35 Hz–23 kHz (± 3 dB) 37 Hz–23 kHz (± 3 dB) 40 Hz–23 kHz (± 3 dB) 50 Hz–23 kHz (± 3 dB) 58 Hz–23 kHz (± 3 dB) Box Principle3-way bass-reflex2-way bass-reflex2-way bass-reflex2-way bass-reflex2-way bass-reflex Crossover Frequency500/2000 Hz1800 Hz1800 Hz2000 Hz1800 Hz Weight23.5 kg17.2 kg9.0 kg6.5 kg7.0 kg Dimensions (W x H x D) 205 x 1040 x 310 mm

8.1 x 40.9 x 12.2"170 x 920 x 270 mm

6.7 x 36.2 x 10.6"205 x 350 x 290 mm

8.1 x 13.8 x 11.4"170 x 285 x 255 mm

6.7 x 11.2 x 10"500 x 130 x 210 mm

19.7 x 5.1 x 8.3"

I am at a loss to see how i speaker with these specifications can be compared to the I93's for the life of me :hiccup

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I would put the Dynaudio EXCITE X36 or FOCUS 220 or 360 or CONTOUR 1.4, 3.4 & 5.4.

If you are in the market for any decent speakers you would know Dynaudio.

Hi ya HT4D,

I'm quite aware of Dynaudio speakers and the quality they exude. I can see why you would suggest them.

However in this instance I believe that the models you have pitted against the I-93's may be best compared to the likes of VAF DC-X's.

In the Dynaudio range I'd be looking at the Confidence series, most probably the C4 to try and match the some of extensive bass reproduction exhibited by the I-93. And as you well know the C4s are in excess of $20k.

Obviously each to their own with particular tastes, but I want a full range speakers capable of reproducing most of the audible spectrum (and yes 20hz is achievable from few comparatively priced speakers). Thanks for your suggestion.

Cheers

Edited by Craigandkim
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Just wanted to convey my thanks to Philip for spending a leisurely 1 & 1/2 hours auditioning these very impressive speakers with me.

Immediate thoughts - I wish I could have bought right there and then.

Honestly, these speakers punch well above their weight in regards to their price point. I have no reservations in the ability of these new versions to tango with speakers parading in the $20-25K range. I have previously auditioned 802D's, BE-1037's and TC-70X's.

The bass reproduction, imaging and detail are absolutely superb. During the audition I listened to my compilation MFSL test disc and Philips compilation disc. Instruments and voices were very convincingly rendered, great separation and the front sound stage was enormous.

If you, like myself are in the market for new speakers you need to make sure you either get to ADL, MELB or SYD (very soon I believe - is this right Philip?) to audition them...

Cheers

Craig

PS: My test disc included the likes of Cat Stevens, Lennon, Orbison, Bryan Adams, U2 and Guns "n Roses

Hi Craig i to was at a mates place that is a long time audiophile and i just don't get the B&W sound, i have heard a few comment on the Vafs being "bright" well after an afternoon listening to some 803d's i found it really nice to come back to mine and listen with a mate to some of the same albums we had tried on the B&W's. I am not saying the B&W were bad at all, on some of the material we listened to was just heavenly but some of the disc's that i had just bought and loved on my system sounded bright and very base less. The weird thing is i could swear i hear bits in the mix on the vafs that i couldn't on the B&W's and yet my mate that came with me thought my speaker sounded a bit lifeless in the upper registers but the base was far superior. I would love to one day get and have a listen to the new mark 11 as from what i am reading i would say that maybe that top end is going to be up there with the diamond tweeter ? if so i would think they should be a similar sound to maybe the Watt puppy's ? Hopefully i know they were special speakers IMHO. The other thing that may have been at play was the B&W's were on a pair of EAR valve amps and my Mark1 93's on a solid state Perreaux but then i would have thought the opposite of what i heard would have happened ie the valves a bit softer and warmer sounding and the solid state harsher. I was speaking to the guys at perreaux this morning about my pre amp and they were saying that they had a few customers over here in NZ that are using Vaf's with really spectacular results i for one can vouch for that. but by the sound of it there is no one selling them in Australia ? Maybe Philip should try one might like them too and sell them in aus ? just a thought.:)

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Hi bluedog, I think that would be a very accurate summary of the difference between the two speakers. People who prefer the B&W sound will find the VAF's too bright. OTOH, people who prefer the VAF sound will find the B&W's lifeless. I think it all comes down to the music that you play. With my type of music and my taste, my preference would be towards a brighter top end. So the VAF's would be my choice - however I can see why some people would prefer B&W's.

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I would put the Dynaudio EXCITE X36 or FOCUS 220 or 360 or CONTOUR 1.4, 3.4 & 5.4.

If you are in the market for any decent speakers you would know Dynaudio.

As you are a new member on SNA, I would interested to know if you work in the industry, particularly in view of your member name.

Would you care to respond?

Cheers

wolster

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Guest Peter the Greek

Wow, glad I didn't read this thread before (you just cant compare the I93's to those mentioned, really - have some respect).......one thing I will say though is that accurate sound reproduction is accurate sound reproduction, this crap about a soft v bright sounding speaker is garbage, they're either accurate or they're not - if you dont like accurate reproduction buy your B&Ws from Len Wallis and brag to your mates, the rest of us will be happy we didn't.

The Vaf's have their short comings, but only when compared to those twice the price - and that's serious coin we're talking about (well these days it is)

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Hi bluedog, I think that would be a very accurate summary of the difference between the two speakers. People who prefer the B&W sound will find the VAF's too bright. OTOH, people who prefer the VAF sound will find the B&W's lifeless. I think it all comes down to the music that you play. With my type of music and my taste, my preference would be towards a brighter top end. So the VAF's would be my choice - however I can see why some people would prefer B&W's.

But, Keith, Bluedog seems to have experienced the exact opposite. He seems to have found the 803d's too bright and his mate thought Bluedog's VAF's were "a bit lifeless in the upper registers" - or have I misunderstood his post?:)

Maybe it's just another endorsement of the truism of "listen for yourself".

Personally, I also think it also gives weight to my contention that all the nuances of a speaker at this quality level cannot typically be fully appreciated or understood in one listening session - although practical logistics means that we often try to do precisely that.

Cheers

Tony

Edited by Tony M
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But, Keith, Bluedog seems to have experienced the exact opposite. He seems to have found the 803d's too bright and his mate thought Bluedog's VAF's were "a bit lifeless in the upper registers" - or have I misunderstood his post?:)

Maybe it's just another endorsement of the truism of "listen for yourself".

Personally, I also think it also gives weight to my contention that all the nuances of a speaker at this quality level cannot typically be fully appreciated or understood in one listening session - although practical logistics means that we often try to do precisely that.

Cheers

Tony

You are right Tony we did find the exact opposite to the stereo type vaf v b&w sound, the really strange thing again in the mix was valve v solid state.The other real surprising thing was i have just put a dedicated pre in with theater by-pass which make a huge difference over my denon 4308 and this is away at the moment getting modified so we were making this observation using the denon as a pre.Oh and i have listened to this set up with the 803d's several times but only the once in the new room which i must say made a world of difference aloud them to really breath ?:love

Edited by bluedog
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I think some people are underestimating the effect the room has on the end result. Its hard enough to compare the performance of the 'same' set of speakers in different rooms let along listening to one set of speakers in one room and then compare them to a different set of speakers in another room.

Sure we can try and make some wide sweeping generalisations but in the end Tony M is right. You can't really come to any hard and fast answers after one listen. You might listen to the speakers in a sub optimal room and then walk away saying, gees I don't know what all the fuss is about. Then you might hear the same speakers again but in a different configuration/position or even a different room and your jaw could hit the floor with amazement.

It takes time, experience, knowledge and perhaps even taking some measurements to sift through the variables to work out what is giving you the end result that you are hearing.

Anyways... just my 2c

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After spending many hours doing mods and checking the results with my Vaf I93 MK1's, I do have to point out that we as listeners struggle to be consistent when comparing even small differences between one setup and the next. There are so many variables at play. Case in point - the first demo of I93 MK2 I heard was troubled by a bright upper mid which was exciting and vibrant, but very tiring to listen to. I have little doubt the amp was inappropriate in this context, a valve/mosfet combo. A later listening session with the Arcam 600 was smooth enough to have on for hours, but lacked the grunt to get really serious volume that these speakers are capable of. ( MK1's could get 117 dBa without distortion with enough power ! ) The Arcam did not lack detail and would have suited most people IMO, but a higher performance amp could well have given the mids - treble some more life. Here's where the cable debate starts !

There are things you can do to VAF's Signature speakers to improve them if you are game. No magic required, just common sense.

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After spending many hours doing mods and checking the results with my Vaf I93 MK1's, I do have to point out that we as listeners struggle to be consistent when comparing even small differences between one setup and the next. There are so many variables at play. Case in point - the first demo of I93 MK2 I heard was troubled by a bright upper mid which was exciting and vibrant, but very tiring to listen to. I have little doubt the amp was inappropriate in this context, a valve/mosfet combo. A later listening session with the Arcam 600 was smooth enough to have on for hours, but lacked the grunt to get really serious volume that these speakers are capable of. ( MK1's could get 117 dBa without distortion with enough power ! ) The Arcam did not lack detail and would have suited most people IMO, but a higher performance amp could well have given the mids - treble some more life. Here's where the cable debate starts !

There are things you can do to VAF's Signature speakers to improve them if you are game. No magic required, just common sense.

My Kamikazi have you got your gear set up in a concrete bunker, i just noticed the sub you have and read this http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_4/velodyne-hgs-18-subwoofer.html i have got only one set of the 93's and a cht15 velodyne and i realy struggle to stop things moving in the room ie wall ceiling :)

Edited by bluedog
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Sometime in the early 90's I spent $12K getting the room rebuilt to stop it exploding. This was before I had this setup, but it was obvious that something needed to be done. Basically the ceiling is supported on one steel girder with steel posts to the foundations, and all the plasterboard walls have been redone with 12mm Gyprock, backed with double layer R3.5 batt, all flexibly coupled to the outside wall. Windows are double thickness glass. There are still issues, as the rest of the house does shake when used at high levels, but this is less with the Velo than experienced when using a Paradigm Servo-15. bluedog, it would look as though you might need to do something or consider moving. We have a new house on the way with a dedicated HT room, to get the bass even better !

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