Sony Kv-hr36 Problem?

[Dreamcazman]

Actually it is not about picture quality.

Imput from a PC, such as a Mac Mini into the KVHR can be difficult in terms of the resolution/geometry.

Apparently the US version of the KVHR has a HDMI and does not present as many problems to connect.

I do understand the technical limitations of HDMI, I even use Firewire to connect some of my other bits of equipment.

So no, its not about picture quality.

Come to think of it , my HD-DVD will not upconvert over component, but will over HDMI, due to the digital copy protection.

So I assume in the US market HDMI was seen as a necessary feature. Sony assessed it was not required in OZ. Must have saved say $10 per set.............

If anyone has perfected the Mac Mini to KVHR connection I would love to know how it is done...........

First off, glad to see you got your KVHR fixed. My TV (it's smaller brother) also got the 10 blinking lights last year and after seeing the fault listed in the service manual I got the parts from Speedy Spares and it was fixed in two days.

I did it myself as it was pretty straight forward, plus I used to do this kind of thing when I left school. I know I could've gotten the parts cheaper through eBay but I was desperate to get it fixed as it was our main lounge room TV and I couldn't afford to wait 1-2 weeks until the IC's arrived.

I thought the US model had a DVI port when it came out because HDMI wasn't standard yet. Maybe a later model did though, I dunno. I found when I hooked my PC up via VGA, there was massive overscan. Using component out from my video card yielded better results as I could adjustments the image more.

[vmile]

Dreamcazman,

you are absolutly correct, the US version of the KVHR, which I think is called the 34xbr910, did have a DVI connection, not a HDMI.My Bad. There were Sony HD CRTs after our model that we did not see, post 2003 that I think had HDMI. Most varieties of DVI and HDMI can be adapted into one another.

With the Mac Mini comes with a mini-DVI port only, you use a VGA adapter, and get massive overscan. You then have limited capacity to adjust as the analogue connection does not tell the Mac what is on the other end. So the US model seems to work or can be adjusted with the better digital connection.

Still a nice TV however........

[flash999]

Hi Everyone,

Well my 5 year old Sony KV-HX32 has just been afflicted with the dreaded Red LED "10 Blinks" problem.

It came on very quickly. Powered the TV off for 24 hours. Next power up worked fine, and the TV operated as normal for 12 (continuous) hours of operation. Turned it off after that and haven't been able to get it going again even after a couple of days "rest".

Is it fair to assume that this is a result of the ICs failing even though the failure was almost immediate? (I'd have thought IC failures would manifest over several days or weeks.) Or is it possible that the failure is related to something else, and the ICs are actually functioning correctly to protect the TV?

To those of you who have had their TVs repaired ... any problems since?

Thanks.

flash999

[Dreamcazman]

Hi Everyone,

Well my 5 year old Sony KV-HX32 has just been afflicted with the dreaded Red LED "10 Blinks" problem.

It came on very quickly. Powered the TV off for 24 hours. Next power up worked fine, and the TV operated as normal for 12 (continuous) hours of operation. Turned it off after that and haven't been able to get it going again even after a couple of days "rest".

Is it fair to assume that this is a result of the ICs failing even though the failure was almost immediate? (I'd have thought IC failures would manifest over several days or weeks.) Or is it possible that the failure is related to something else, and the ICs are actually functioning correctly to protect the TV?

To those of you who have had their TVs repaired ... any problems since?

Thanks.

flash999

When my TV failed it was from one day to the next. Was working fine, next morning wouldn't go.

I changed the IC as well as the transistors because according to the service manual, it could've been them too. 99% certain it was only the IC that was at fault. Never had a problem since then.

[nikko1974]

:-(

Damn, my 7 or so yr old KVHR32M31 just developed this '10 red flashes' problem this morning! In whats a mixed blessing it appears its a very common and well documented problem!

I've taken the plastic cover off the rear and can see the LIKELY offender, the MCZ3001DB chip...........before I plough in all guns a blazing I wondered if I could trouble other members for their thoughts:

1) Has anyone contacted Sony Australia regarding whether they'll pay for repairs? Considering they have done so for out of warranty consumers in Japan I'd find it hard to see that they'd totally rule out doing it here. By the way does anyone have a link to the details of the Japan replacements? As I couldn't find anything via Google at all......

Anyone called Sony regarding this matter at all? Tempted to do so myself but wanted to check first.

2) Assuming the worst and Sony refuse to repair the known faulty chip, I'll have to try myself to desolder it and replace with an ebay sourced one ( thank you to the user who provided the link on those :-) )..........how difficult is this to do? I've done a bit of soldering work but nothing on this level - and am particularly concerned about the potential to get a shock from the residual charge in the TV.

I'm assuming the D board either has to be removed - or you turn the entire set on its right (as shown in the service manual).....thus allowing access to the underside of the PCB so you can properly remove the entire chip. Is either way better? I'm reluctant to remove the D-board if possible.

I guess I could also contact a professional and specifiy that I'd just want that particular chip removed and replaced.....but still I'm not enamoured with spending $100+ on the TV when they sell for $300-500 now.

Any feedback welcomed as how best to sort this tricky situation out.....what a pain Sony weren't more professional in putting a replacement strategy in place given they knew they'd utilised a faulty component. One rule for Japan and one for here eh, thats quite poor form.

Thanks in advance for any assistance or thoughts.

Regards, Nick

PS I just called Sony Australia myself, spoke with a nice enough guy there by the name of 'Joe' - explained the situation and he said that there was nothing pertaining to that particular model or faulty chip at Sony Australia and as such they'd NOT replace the faulty chip or assist with the matter in any way.

I explained to him the frustration at the fact that this was a well documented fault and so much so that Sony Japan had done out of warranty repairs for consumers with the problem - he said he could understand the frustration but could do nothing. He said he could put the repair request forward to his manager but that it'd be rejected straight away essentially because they didn't have to.....

I said it really turned me off purchasing anything from Sony ever again not that it was a fault through wear and tear but that it was a known faulty part and there was one policy for Japanese consumers and another for Australian ones - you really end up feeling a bit silly.

Anyway just to save people time and effort in calling Sony - seems a bit of a brick wall - which I can understand but not respect.

Edited December 1, 2009 by nikko1974

[Dreamcazman]

Thankfully the part is pretty cheap to replace as long as you can solder. Even if the set was covered by warranty, I wouldn't bother dragging it into the repair shop to get it fixed as that'd cost more than leaving it where it is and replacing the part.

This fault doesn't happen with every set, but it is a common problem. 7 years is a long time, most things you don't expect to last that long.

Anyways to help you out Nikko, after you've pulled the back off, keep a note and undo what you need to, to be able to pull the board out so you can access the bottom. Desolder the IC and rip the bugger out. Might be an idea to install a socket first so if ever the replacement IC fails, you can simply pop the old one out and put the new one in.

[nikko1974]

Thankfully the part is pretty cheap to replace as long as you can solder. Even if the set was covered by warranty, I wouldn't bother dragging it into the repair shop to get it fixed as that'd cost more than leaving it where it is and replacing the part.

This fault doesn't happen with every set, but it is a common problem. 7 years is a long time, most things you don't expect to last that long.

Anyways to help you out Nikko, after you've pulled the back off, keep a note and undo what you need to, to be able to pull the board out so you can access the bottom. Desolder the IC and rip the bugger out. Might be an idea to install a socket first so if ever the replacement IC fails, you can simply pop the old one out and put the new one in.

Greatly appreciate the reply Dreamcazman,

Ordered the part from the USA via one of the many links on Ebay.....grabbed this one as it came with the 18 pin sockets and two of everything. Guess it'll arrive in 2 weeks or so at best.

Is funny as generally I'd agree with you regarding most things not being expected to last 7 yrs but I look back at older TVs and those things seemed to last forever, seems nowadays things are VERY much disposable. Anyway the thing that really grates me about this is that it isn't a case of wear and tear but that Sony seems to have known that this chip was prone to faults but they've pressed ahead with it regardless. But anyway....last Sony product I ever buy.

Appreciate the rundown on what to do - sounds relatively simple........I will flip on its right side and see if I need to pull the entire D-board out to make the changeover etc - but ideally not. Will definitely go with the socket as it seems no extra hassle and atleast make it easier if theres another problem. Appreciate the reply.

Cheers, Nick

[Dreamcazman]

Is funny as generally I'd agree with you regarding most things not being expected to last 7 yrs but I look back at older TVs and those things seemed to last forever, seems nowadays things are VERY much disposable. Anyway the thing that really grates me about this is that it isn't a case of wear and tear but that Sony seems to have known that this chip was prone to faults but they've pressed ahead with it regardless. But anyway....last Sony product I ever buy.

Sony actually used the revised version of this chip (the DB) that supposedly has a lot lower failure rate.

It was the MCZ3001D that was the previous version (the ones with the problems). I hope the IC's you bought aren't the old ones (looks like they are) otherwise you might be changing it again in the not too distant future.

[nikko1974]

Sony actually used the revised version of this chip (the DB) that supposedly has a lot lower failure rate.

It was the MCZ3001D that was the previous version (the ones with the problems). I hope the IC's you bought aren't the old ones (looks like they are) otherwise you might be changing it again in the not too distant future.

Oh bugger!

Some peoples posts were very misleading regarding this saying that the DB's were newer but the ones with the probs! Damn will have to see if the seller also has the DB's!

Thanks for the update.... :-(

[Dreamcazman]

If you want anymore info on this fault, head on over to the AVS forums, there's a huge thread about it.

[vmile]

The Chips that I removed from my KVHR36 were DBs.

I replaced them with Ds.

I think fitting sockets is the answer- makes replacment easy, and the chips, Ds or DBs, are quite cheap on ebay.

Some suggestions it is the FBT that really cause the problem- but they are harder and much more expensive to replace than some cheap ICs.

"Its a SONY!"

[nikko1974]

The Chips that I removed from my KVHR36 were DBs.

I replaced them with Ds.

I think fitting sockets is the answer- makes replacment easy, and the chips, Ds or DBs, are quite cheap on ebay.

Some suggestions it is the FBT that really cause the problem- but they are harder and much more expensive to replace than some cheap ICs.

"Its a SONY!"

Thanks for the reply Vmile. Thankfully the seller on Ebay was happy to switch my order for the D's over to the DB's......who knows I'd say either one is fine. :-/

Hmm well if switching the IC's doesn't fix the set I'll be essentially forced to bin it.....the wife was happy to go with a new display but to be honest I'm not totally enamoured with the choices at present though may be enticed by the post Xmas sales if something was aggressively priced.

If its the FBT then its prolly a bridge too far for my repair skills.

[Dreamcazman]

It wouldn't be worth repairing if it were the FBT that was faulty. God knows how much the part would cost, something ridiculous.

[nikko1974]

Just a quick postscript to my troubles.....

I spoke with the seller of those IC's I'd bought on Ebay and he was happy to send the later DB ones instead of the D's I'd mistakingly ordered. Great seller FWIW they arrived in around 5 days, highly recommend him.

Anyway put off doing it for a while.....flipped the KVHR32M31 onto its right side to access the underneath of the circuit board, as my plan had been to leave the board in the system and just work on it where it lay ........the found I had to remove all the outer plastic casing before flipping it as the top has to be removed to access underneath. but with the plastic back off I found it very hard to flip it onto its right side as there was nothng to support it - so I ended up lying the tv face down.

Upon flipping then also found that a plastic bar was in the road of one of the IC's....not making it impossible but pretty hard to access it.

This was my first time desoldering.......had done only very basic soldering before.....just had one of the basic kits sold at JayCar to work with 25w soldering iron and would be using braid to remove the solder. It took a while to get an understanding of how to do properly and the first IC I removed wasn't a very clean job but the second (ironically the one that was harder to access) was much easier.

Then placed the new IC's in the sockets and manuevered into the holes (which I'd cleaned up).

Soldering them back into place was super easy, I triple checked everything and then put the back on......very nervously powered it up and powered up.

Worked beautifully......but the test would be on the restart....worked a dream.......

SO even though I'd welcome buying a new TV I'll happily wait 6-12mths more as the place we're in at present is too small for a ~50" panel and this 32" serves us great.

BIG THANKS to all those who helped in this thread....very much appreciated.

[Dreamcazman]

Congrats on a successful repair!

Again someone saves the mighty Sony CRT from ending up as landfill. These TV's are too good to just throw away IMO.

You'll probably never have to change the IC's again - Heck, it's lasted this long with the originals.

[nikko1974]

Congrats on a successful repair!

Again someone saves the mighty Sony CRT from ending up as landfill. These TV's are too good to just throw away IMO.

You'll probably never have to change the IC's again - Heck, it's lasted this long with the originals.

Thanks Dreamcazman, I really appreciated your assistance in getting the repair done.

Yes, I really felt it was improper to junk such a fantastic TV when 99.9% of the set was working perfectly........alas the 'bin it & upgrade/buy new' mentality is just so prevelent nowadays. I just didn't feel like it was the right thing to do....and that aside I have to say the feeling of having fixed it was one of the more rewarding lil tech projects I've ever done!

I do look forward to getting a new display at some point in the future but think that any display will have a hell of a job bettering the picture quality that the KVHR's were capable of with almost any material.

Thanks once again and wholeheartedly recommend the repair process to anyone with the 'ten red flashes' fault........

Cheers, Nick :-D

[flash999]

Thanks once again and wholeheartedly recommend the repair process to anyone with the 'ten red flashes' fault........

Cheers, Nick :-D

Great to hear that your TV is back in the land of the living.

Well Done.

Cheers, Flash

[nikko1974]

Great to hear that your TV is back in the land of the living.

Well Done.

Cheers, Flash

Thanks Flash! Loving its crispness and ability to capture motion perfectly! Was using a 24" LCD for the past few weeks and yuck that was so bad.

On a sidenote, I have mine connected to my HTPC via component video cabling.....alas I find that the 'best' resolution I can put through it is 1280x720p.......I've never been able to get a happy 1080i signal through it - I think the native res of the display is actually 1440x1080?

Just wondering if anyone else has a PC connected to their KVHR series display and if so whats the best resolution you've been able to HAPPILY set it to? I've always tried to run every display at its native res but can't find how to even get close with the PC and the KVHR.

I also have a Crest VGA to RGBHV cable which I bought but didn't have any better luck using to connect.

Tried my hand at using the 'Overscan' adjustments via the Service Menu - haha while one's confidence is up..........I first set my PC to NOT resize the HDTV desktop (which is a commonly used Nvidia feature with HTPC's).....so I was putting through a 1280x720 signal......but couldn't get the picture to fill the screen properly - maybe I just need to try again but I'm guessing thats basically the correct way to go about things?

That is....get an input signal that you KNOW is 1280x720.......make sure there's no other resizing occuring etc (eg turn off the Nvidia resizing).....then go into the service menu and adjust the VPOS/VSIZ/HPOS/HSIZ?

I don't know if PC's signal are different for this than a STB? I can't imagine they should be....a signal is a signal right?

Haha I'm just back using the bog standard overscanned image but am curious now to see what the full res goodness looks like.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. :-)

[Widescream1503559516]

In regard to using a HTPC with the KVHR, I found that ATI video cards seem to work better (as in easier to set up and less buggy) that Nvidea. I have no problem getting 1080i on the Sony. I have always used a RGBHV connection. The irony is that these days I have no issues with the HTPC and the Sony, but I hardly use it as I have my Oppo and Dvico Tvix as sources.

[nikko1974]

In regard to using a HTPC with the KVHR, I found that ATI video cards seem to work better (as in easier to set up and less buggy) that Nvidea. I have no problem getting 1080i on the Sony. I have always used a RGBHV connection. The irony is that these days I have no issues with the HTPC and the Sony, but I hardly use it as I have my Oppo and Dvico Tvix as sources.

Thanks for the reply Widescream. :-)

ATI better eh? Hmmm thats interesting as I'm pretty active in the HTPC community and Nvidia cards seem to have been the flavour of the month for 18mths or so now....well atleast since the 8xxx series GPUs came out. Alas all I have at present is Nvidia GPUs - using an 8600gt at present.

On a related subject I thought one of the gripes with ATI cards was that they were buggers to correct overscan with? Do they have anything similar to the Nvidia resizing of the desktop etc to combat this?

Do you mind what exact resolution and freq. you run, I'm assuming 1440 x 1080 @50hz?

I may have to play around with this weekend while the missus is away....

Appreciate your assistance.

:-D

Edited December 15, 2009 by nikko1974

[Widescream1503559516]

I went from a Nvidia 8600 GTS, which after some time was very laggy to switch to the CRT or would even refuse to do so, to ATI 4670, which after a reboot or two, simply just worked. I noted the image quaility was a little better too.

I had been using Powerstrip with the 8600GTS and that might have been part of the problem. I do realise that things swing between ATI and Nvidea as what is best for a HTPC.

I simply adjusted the secondary display to 1920 x 1080 and it works. ATI does have adjustments for over and underscan and picture positioning. The one thing that was a concern with the ATI is that the particular card I have has a Component Video out dongle. Whilst I had no issues with outputting RGHBV through the DB15 VGA output, I could never get the Component Out to work. Just as well the Sony has RGBHV input. Conversely the Nvidia Component dongle always worked, but I usually couldn't get a HD resolution to the Sony.

[Dreamcazman]

The time when I hooked my PC up to the KVHR (just after I got the TV) I had an ATI X800 video card, I couldn't get it to work properly through VGA - RGBHV, the overscan was atrocious. I had a lot more control using component as I could set the resolution and screen size just right.

It depends what card you have and what options are available to you to correct the display output. There was a free software program you could get that did a lot of these adjustments, but I can't remember what it was called, sorry.

[nikko1974]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated! :-D

[Owen]

Ideally you should be adjusting picture size to reduce overscan in the service menu of the TV rather than a custom res on the PC. Running 720p may give you a better picture than 1080i so that’s worth a try as well.

[Dreamcazman]

Ideally you should be adjusting picture size to reduce overscan in the service menu of the TV rather than a custom res on the PC. Running 720p may give you a better picture than 1080i so that’s worth a try as well.

That's exactly right Owen, but in the case of the KVHR TV's there's only so much can be corrected using the service menu (believe me, I've tried). Even with the overscan reduced as far as it can go, the edges are still chopped off!

This only seems to be an issue when using the RGBHV input though.