50mxe20 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Hey Rob,One question - are you sure that the 509C is an 9th gen panel? My Pio rep told me it is a 508 panel (hence the lower contrast), with 509 electronics (tuner, processor, gui) minus a few bits, like ethernet, usb, home media gallery. 508 - 8th gen 509 - 9th gen I imagine he is pretty sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelz Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) edit Edited February 18, 2009 by wheelz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouldyCrumpet Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 sorry guys, i mean't KRP500, and offcially the C509 is 9th gen, but in reality ,who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucethebear Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 508 - 8th gen509 - 9th gen I imagine he is pretty sure. Thanks for your reply. I agree that 509 = 9th gen tv, but does that mean it has the same panel as the LX509? My thoughts: The LX509 is $1000 more. What do you get for the money? 2 years more warranty, USB, ethernet and home gallery. Hardly seems worth the extra money. If it is the same panel, why is the PQ and contrast so lower. The Pio website talks about the electronics almost word for word for both the LX and C models. What makes it the entry level model? That said, I am yet to find anywhere credible on the net confirming either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retailforlife Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 So anyone other than Crumpet got a lower price on these antiques?As I have had no responses is anyone buying these? Makes you wonder if the price is too high? ive only just stumbled across this subject recently and i must say....you can ask a retailer to sell it to you for $2500 but u really should be asking them to throw in there job aswell lol thats the only way you would get that price...the cost on those it way above $2500....your shopping for a pioneer on a samsung budget. im not trying to be rude but your not battling if you have $2500 to blow on a tv, why not wait for rudd to fork out his $950 and maybe save a little more.....i have seen the new 509's and i think there a great tv for the person who likes to have what others cant afford, its a mixture of picture quality, longevity and robustness plus the fact that its not a highly purchased item....its a premium item....if i bought a sports car and found that everyone could get one i wouldnt see the need to drive a sports car..it takes the uniquesness out of having a luxury item that not many poeple have......stick to a panaonic and get a bonus blu-ray player...... but you wont get that price unfortunately plant, its just not ganna happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSpin Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 ive only just stumbled across this subject recently and i must say....you can ask a retailer to sell it to you for $2500 but u really should be asking them to throw in there job aswell lol thats the only way you would get that price...the cost on those it way above $2500....your shopping for a pioneer on a samsung budget. im not trying to be rude but your not battling if you have $2500 to blow on a tv, why not wait for rudd to fork out his $950 and maybe save a little more.....i have seen the new 509's and i think there a great tv for the person who likes to have what others cant afford, its a mixture of picture quality, longevity and robustness plus the fact that its not a highly purchased item....its a premium item....if i bought a sports car and found that everyone could get one i wouldnt see the need to drive a sports car..it takes the uniquesness out of having a luxury item that not many poeple have......stick to a panaonic and get a bonus blu-ray player......but you wont get that price unfortunately plant, its just not ganna happen mate, plants post are a waste of space (which is a big statement considering this is the internet after all). treat them with the respect it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobey123 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 prices anyone??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redav Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Wonder of the 09 gets the 08 buzz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 prices anyone??? Pioneer are cheating with the Lx509, the contrast ratio is nothing like 100,000:1, that’s total BS. The LX509 panel will turn of completely will an all black video input so that on-off contrast tests will show effectively unlimited contrast. If even one pixel needs to be on the panel must turn on and you are left with the normal pixel idle luminance which is not black. They are however better then the G8 which was good for about 9000:1 in real world tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyates69 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Pioneer are cheating with the Lx509, the contrast ratio is nothing like 100,000:1, that’s total BS. The LX509 panel will turn of completely will an all black video input so that on-off contrast tests will show effectively unlimited contrast. If even one pixel needs to be on the panel must turn on and you are left with the normal pixel idle luminance which is not black. They are however better then the G8 which was good for about 9000:1 in real world tests. Got a link to these 9000:1 real world tests? I've owned both and I can tell you the 8th gen Kuro far exceeds the SXRD Sony's. They're good sets no doubt, but aren't in the same contrast league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) Got a link to these 9000:1 real world tests? I've owned both and I can tell you the 8th gen Kuro far exceeds the SXRD Sony's. They're good sets no doubt, but aren't in the same contrast league. What has a Sony TV got to do with this thread? You can set up the Sony to have a lower black level then a G8, but it wont have the same contrast ratio in a single frame becuase native contrast is lower. (5,000:1 native and 15,000:1 dynamic.) Pioneer G8 tests; http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1...010/index5.html and http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/907kuro/index3.html Edited February 19, 2009 by Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouldyCrumpet Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 well pioneer dont actually quote 100000:1 they simpy say 5 times the black levels of g8, a statement which i have personally verified to be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) Black level is around 0.001ftL on G9 and 0.004ftL on G8, close to the claimed improvement. G9 contrast tested at 37,000:1 peak on low average picture level scenes. http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/p...dtv/index4.html Edited February 19, 2009 by Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucethebear Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So anyone other than Crumpet got a lower price on these antiques?As I have had no responses is anyone buying these? Makes you wonder if the price is too high? Given the way that the LX509's are being snapped up, I would say YES, people are buying them. NO - the price is not too high. It is a premium price for a premium product. I ordered mine today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retailforlife Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thanks for your reply.I agree that 509 = 9th gen tv, but does that mean it has the same panel as the LX509? My thoughts: The LX509 is $1000 more. What do you get for the money? 2 years more warranty, USB, ethernet and home gallery. Hardly seems worth the extra money. If it is the same panel, why is the PQ and contrast so lower. The Pio website talks about the electronics almost word for word for both the LX and C models. What makes it the entry level model? That said, I am yet to find anywhere credible on the net confirming either way. plus 5 x darker blacks....side by side the 509 models look alot different...i would fork out the extra to get the kuro black screen....i looked at the 590c and thought it was a pana lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Read my posts above, G9 is at best 4 times darker. 0.001ftL is still a LONG way from black in a dim to dark environment, you just get a darker shade of grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouldyCrumpet Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 other thing to remember is most testing equipment is inaccurate at .001 or less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 other thing to remember is most testing equipment is inaccurate at .001 or less Thats true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 other thing to remember is most testing equipment is inaccurate at .001 or less Including the human eye! cheers laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Actually the human eye can see 0.001ftL plain as day, you would never mistake that level for black in a dark room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokenz Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 yeah but it also depends on how you view a black. if it's a full black screen in a dark room, yes you will notice it plain as day until the panel shuts off light output, which is kind of a useless feature as there is a time delay for it switching off,if it was instant the feature would be excellent. but i've always found with the pioneers that on a full screen picture the blacks they produce are what i would consider a true black, as the overall brightness of the panels other colour offsets the 0.001ftl of brightness the black produces to make it appear black. the same can be said for letterbox widescreen movies. yes if you stare at the black bars you can see the light in them, but if you watch the movie you notice the black bars disappear much more so than any other flat panel can produce as your eyes tend to focus on the bright colour of the picture, not the black bars. i would say 99% of people get this effect when watching, except Owen i would like to see a 0ftl black panel vs the current pioneers just to see if the situations i mentioned above show a huge difference or just a small improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Plenty of displays have blacks that look black when a normal or bright scene is on screen or with the lights on, even cheap LCD’s , the brighter the screen the more this applies. Hell even a white projection screen can show what appears to be blacks without a dark room if you have a very bright projector. For a “cinema experience” you need to be viewing in the dark, in this environment you have to drop light output way down to avoid eye strain, therefore bright scenes are not very bright and dark-night scenes are VERY dark. If blacks are not really black in this situation its all over for picture quality, a shade of grey really does not cut it. If you have never experienced such a setup its difficult to appreciate the difference it makes, I have and I miss the experience. It looks like it will be years before a digital display will be able to achieve it. Edited February 21, 2009 by Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeff Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 You're a tough man to please Owen! But then if it wasn't for a continuous striving for perfection, we'd still be watching B&W I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 You're a tough man to please Owen! But then if it wasn't for a continuous striving for perfection, we'd still be watching B&W I guess... I'm sure Owen would prefer to watch black & white than grey and white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Its not as if I want something that is unattainable, my 2004 vintage 57” Hitachi CRT RPTV had blacks that a G9 Kuro could not dream of. There was absolutely zero residual glow on screen in a pitch dark room, I could not tell where the screen stopped and the blackness of the room began. With a black screen displayed, like a PC screen saver, the only way to tell that the display was switched on was to look at the power light. I vividly remember the opening scene of “Final Fantasy” on the Hitachi, wispy shapes floating in the centre of black nothingness, it looked like a hologram and I felt I could reach into the screen and touch the object, truly 3 dimensional and not at all like watching video, this looked real. Give me that kind of black level on a 70” plus digital and I will pay big money for it, but the likelihood of anything suitable becoming available any time soon is very low. The rumoured 80” G10 Kuro would have been a likely candidate, but that’s dead now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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