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ageha

Panasonic's 2009 Plasma Lineup

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I find it kind of reflects too much - a bit too tinted for my likings.

Other than this, my new Japanese built 50" is great.

Yes it does reflect quite a bit... but I darken the room if it distracts.. the PQ is excellant and I can overlook this minus point...

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Yes it does reflect quite a bit... but I darken the room if it distracts.. the PQ is excellant and I can overlook this minus point...

Yeah - the PQ is crystal clear on mine as well as long as it is not too bright outside. At night it is amazing.

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Most of the Panasonic range is made in China not Japan, that includes the “G” series.

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How can the 54” S series use the same panel as last year when there was no 54” panel last year as far as I know?
Maybe they are still manufacturing last year's glass (like the X series), but are now cutting it in 54" sizes?
I very much doubt Panasonic will be making two different panels of the same size and pixel configuration, it would be far too costly and makes no sense to do so.
Agreed

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Most of the Panasonic range is made in China not Japan, that includes the "G" series.

There was a link on this Forum last Year that stated Panny. was moving Plasma production(assembly, not the Glass) to China and re-tooling the Osaka Plants to produce OLED but the WEC has apparently stalled everything. The new Amagasaki plant is due to come on line this Year but conflicting views if its only for Glass or assembly as well.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/71130,panaso...tv-factory.aspx

Edited by Basil

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Does it make a difference?

Maybe. 600Hz of the G processing will not be worse than the 550Hz processing of the S. The slight reduction is indicative of a lessening in processing. Not a good thing in my book.

Video only has a maximum of 256 steps per colour, going from 5120 to 6144 is irrelevant.

See above. Panasonic has clearly provided extra headroom in the G over the S. Does it make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. The general lessening in processing was a concern for me.

No Panasonic has ever achieved even 10,000:1 contrast ratio let alone 40,000:1, manufacturers CR numbers are meaningless. There is a difference between the last generation panel and the latest, but it’s not big.Video only has a maximum of 256 steps per colour, going from 5120 to 6144 is irrelevant.

Agreed. Except that within Panasonics own flawed measuring scheme the G has more contrast than the S. This years G have a measured black level of 0.03 cd/m2 compared with last years Panasonics which came in at around 0.05 cd/m2. This is an improvement, whether one considers this big or small is up to them.

How can the 54” S series use the same panel as last year when there was no 54” panel last year as far as I know?

I very much doubt Panasonic will be making two different panels of the same size and pixel configuration, it would be far too costly and makes no sense to do so.

The G-series are NeoPDP which is Panasonics latest glass.

The S-series are not NeoPDP, hence, most likely is a repurposing of last years glass (recut into a new 54inch size to suit).

When I looked at an S compared with a G I found the S to slightly lack in pop. Since the S and G were so closely priced I decided to skip the S on both the spec-front and quick eye-test.

Obviously everyone should judge for themselves.

Given the choice between an S or a G I'd go G everytime.

I hope Panasonic rethink their stance about not offering a 54inch G or V in Australia (only the S). Bad decision me thinks.

Dennis.

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There was a link on this Forum last Year that stated Panny. was moving Plasma production(assembly, not the Glass) to China and re-tooling the Osaka Plants to produce OLED but the WEC has apparently stalled everything. The new Amagasaki plant is due to come on line this Year but conflicting views if its only for Glass or assembly as well.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/71130,panaso...tv-factory.aspx

The Plasma panels in Plasma TV’s of any brand rarely ever fail; it’s the rest of the components that account for 90% of failures, most if not all of which are not made in Japan.

Sony and Samsung LCD panels are made in South Korea and the majority of the rest are made in China, does that make them unreliable? I think Sharp is the only company still making LCD panels in Japan.

It makes bugger all difference where a product is manufactured these days.

Edited by Owen

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Maybe. 600Hz of the G processing will not be worse than the 550Hz processing of the S. The slight reduction is indicative of a lessening in processing. Not a good thing in my book.

600Hz and 550Hz does not refer to “Processing” it relates to the pulse width modulation frequency used to drive the panels pixels. A change of less then 10% is not significant.

Funny how Samsung went from 550HZ last year to 600Hz this year, just like Panasonic, its almost certainly a marketing thing, a higher number on the spec sheet must be better.

See above. Panasonic has clearly provided extra headroom in the G over the S. Does it make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. The general lessening in processing was a concern for me.

Cinema film is mastered in 10 bit (1024 steps per color) and converted to 8 bit (256 steps per color) for domestic distribution. Quoting numbers like 6144 is marketing pure and simple, it looks better on the spec sheet and many people are influence by specs.

As far as colour goes the G series is MORE “processed” then the S series.

Agreed. Except that within Panasonics own flawed measuring scheme the G has more contrast than the S. This years G have a measured black level of 0.03 cd/m2 compared with last years Panasonics which came in at around 0.05 cd/m2. This is an improvement, whether one considers this big or small is up to them.

Actual measurement of NeoPDP panels is not showing an across the board significant improvement in black level over the previous models, regardless of what Panasonic say. Panasonics best panel by far, the 65” VX100, is not a NeoPDP.

The G-series are NeoPDP which is Panasonics latest glass.

The S-series are not NeoPDP, hence, most likely is a repurposing of last years glass (recut into a new 54inch size to suit).

As far as I know PDP panels are not “cut”, each size needs its own production line.

When I looked at an S compared with a G I found the S to slightly lack in pop. Since the S and G were so closely priced I decided to skip the S on both the spec-front and quick eye-test.

“Pod” is related to perceived contrast and brightness and is therefore heavily dependant on setup and viewing environment. The B650 and better Samsungs have more “pop” then the Panasonics due to their screen filter and so do most LCD’s, why didn’t you by one of them? :D

If the price is much the same I don’t see any point in manufacturing different lines, the S should be a lot cheaper to be viable as a separate model

Obviously everyone should judge for themselves.

Absolutely.

Edited by Owen

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“Pod” is related to perceived contrast and brightness and is therefore heavily dependant on setup and viewing environment. The B650 and better Samsungs have more “pop” then the Panasonics due to their screen filter and so do most LCD’s, why didn’t you by one of them? :D

Pop was not my most important criteria Owen.

Reasons to get a G-series over a Samsung plasma or any LCD.

* G-series view angle (all LCDs suck here)

* G-series has deeper black than any available 42inch screen :D

* G-series has a fantastic (cough cough bug free) 24p mode at 96Hz.

* G-series has beautiful clean clear motion (900 to 1080 lines).

* G-series has a perfectly uniform screen (unlike most LCD with their uneven backlights)

* G-series appears to be bug free.

* Samsungs don't make 1080p plasmas down at the 42inch segment.

G-series has flaws which I'm sure you'll be all the more than willing to highlight. So I'll keep my list to some of the positives :)

Remember always, no screen perfect, yada yada.

Dennis.

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My only issue now with the G10 is poor de-interlacing. I'm really being put off the B650 Samsung due to cinema smooth bug and the buzz. I may even wait till 2010!

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My only issue now with the G10 is poor de-interlacing. I'm really being put off the B650 Samsung due to cinema smooth bug and the buzz. I may even wait till 2010!

Yes, the Panasonic SD de-interlacer is rubbish.

If one has a good mid-range AVR (like an Onkyo or Denon) this Panasonic flaw can be side-stepped (which is what I do).

I can understand it being a deal breaker for some. It is what it is.

Note, in 2010 there will be better sets in 2011, then in 2011 you may be tempted again (maybe OLED?).

My suggestion, buy a set you have a want or need.

Waiting for the mythical perfect set will only end in tears :)

Dennis.

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Yes, the Panasonic SD de-interlacer is rubbish.

If one has a good mid-range AVR (like an Onkyo or Denon) this Panasonic flaw can be side-stepped (which is what I do).

I can understand it being a deal breaker for some. It is what it is.

Note, in 2010 there will be better sets in 2011, then in 2011 you may be tempted again (maybe OLED?).

My suggestion, buy a set you have a want or need.

Waiting for the mythical perfect set will only end in tears :)

Dennis.

Why will waiting for the mythical perfect set end in tears?

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Why will waiting for the mythical perfect set end in tears?

1) No perfect set currently exists, so firstly you'll be waiting for a long time. OLEDs toward to mid-to-late part of the next decade hold the most hope (IMHO).

2) If you think think you've found the perfect set, invariable it won't be perfect (upon extended usage). A buzz will start to appear, or some other irritating quirk will manifest itself.

I'm just warning people to slightly lower expectations, that's all.

All currently available sets have some type of flaw (some may consider flaw X small, others may consider flaw X large).

In this case we have:

Samung buzz, slightly inferior black, possibly buggy Cinema smooth 24p mode.

Panasonic crap SD de-interlacer, matte filter, less colour controls.

Pick your poison :D

Dennis.

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I may keep using my CRT for now and buy a projector first. I procrastinate too much!

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I may keep using my CRT for now and buy a projector first. I procrastinate too much!

Just get one mate :)

If the buzzing frightens you buy the panna G. Mine (B650) buzzes only mildly, it hasn't irritated me yet. The Samsung is a great set (only had mine for a week though). My old Panasonic 800A is still very dear to my heart, love the thing.

You really can't go wrong.

CRT's (36" max) really don't come even close.... just do it.

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Yes, the Panasonic SD de-interlacer is rubbish.

If one has a good mid-range AVR (like an Onkyo or Denon) this Panasonic flaw can be side-stepped (which is what I do).

I can understand it being a deal breaker for some. It is what it is.

If you want to use the TV's internal digital tuner, as most people will, the poor SD perfomance is a very serious problem.

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My only issue now with the G10 is poor de-interlacing. I'm really being put off the B650 Samsung due to cinema smooth bug and the buzz. I may even wait till 2010!

This 24p “bug” that keeps getting mentioned is irrelevant. If you are viewing movies from a Bluray player you will have “cinema smooth” enabled (96Hz) for Bluray and have the brightness control calibrated appropriately for the Bluray input. You will never see the alleged “bug”.

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This 24p “bug” that keeps getting mentioned is irrelevant. If you are viewing movies from a Bluray player you will have “cinema smooth” enabled (96Hz) for Bluray and have the brightness control calibrated appropriately for the Bluray input. You will never see the alleged “bug”.

Why are the people over at the AVS forums yelling and screaming for a hopeful firmware fix for this if it easily worked around like you mention?

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If you want to use the TV's internal digital tuner, as most people will, the poor SD perfomance is a very serious problem.

Most people?

I'd think quite a few folk around here would have an AVR (with a PVR), or a Tivo or a Foxtel IQ2....all of which can take on the SD de-interlace duties. There are options. Yes, some may be stuck with sucky SD, but others will not.

Also, with Channel 7 & 9 most prime time content is 1080i. Why even watch SD when HD is available?

Again, the G-series renders a beautiful picture with free-to-air HD, evidenced by my viewing of Grey's Anatomy (on 7) and The Footy Show (9) last night (from the internal digital tuner). No SD suckage at all, just an awesome HD picture on my G-series :D :D

Dennis.

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Why are the people over at the AVS forums yelling and screaming for a hopeful firmware fix for this if it easily worked around like you mention?

If you use one of the HDMI inputs for a Bluray player you simply turn “Cinema smooth” on and leave it on for that input. The “bug” or black level change only becomes apparent if you play with the cinema smooth setting (turn in on and off), why would you do that?

If you run you external sources through a receiver or video processor and from it to a single HDMI input you can do the same.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....79#post16787279

Frame rate settings should not be user controllable in the first place, they should be completely automatic as they are for 50Hz and 60Hz input. With 50 and 60Hz TV’s know the frame rate of the video they are receiving and locks to it, no reason to do things differentially for 24Hz, the user doers not need to know or care.

It would seem the “Cinema Smooth” control is an enable / disable function, not an on/off switch, you can’t force cinema smooth on for non 24Hz input. With it enabled the TV will automatically use the appropriate mode for the video signal it is receiving, just as it should. You don’t need to tell a PC monitor what refresh rate to use now do you, they lock to whatever you send them, a TV is the same.

Apparently if you let the TV do its thing the black level bug is a non issue.

It's yet to be seen if the “bug” even exists when using 50Hz and 24Hz input as we do in Oz, rather then 60Hz and 24Hz as in the US.

Edited by Owen

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Most people?

I'd think quite a few folk around here would have an AVR (with a PVR), or a Tivo or a Foxtel IQ2....all of which can take on the SD de-interlace duties. There are options. Yes, some may be stuck with sucky SD, but others will not.

Also, with Channel 7 & 9 most prime time content is 1080i. Why even watch SD when HD is available?

Again, the G-series renders a beautiful picture with free-to-air HD, evidenced by my viewing of Grey's Anatomy (on 7) and The Footy Show (9) last night (from the internal digital tuner). No SD suckage at all, just an awesome HD picture on my G-series :D :D

Dennis.

Well I think its fairly safe to assume that the the vast majority people of who have a HDTV set with an in built tuner, will not use a PVR or an external tuner. Most people will be watching FTA with their in built tuner. Now there is still alot of content which is broadcast in SD, basically all normal programs on Ten is broadcast is SD, now Im not going to buy a PVR or an external tuner because the video processing of SD on my panny th-50pz700a is rather horrible, I d much rather put that money into my next HDTV set which I should be buying very shortly, and will not be a panny, simply because panasonic don't make a set which is up to my standards at the moment, the G series still falls far short in many areas.

Regards,

Albert

Edited by thesexybod

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Well I think its fairly safe to assume that the the vast majority people of who have a HDTV set with an in built tuner, will not use a PVR or an external tuner. Most people will be watching FTA with their in built tuner. Now there is still alot of content which is broadcast in SD, basically all normal programs on Ten is broadcast is SD, now Im not going to buy a PVR or an external tuner because the video processing of SD on my panny th-50pz700a is rather horrible, I d much rather put that money into my next HDTV set which I should be buying very shortly, and will not be a panny, simply because panasonic don't make a set which is up to my standards at the moment, the G series still falls far short in many areas.

Regards,

Albert

Sure, G-series ain't for you (look elsewhere).

Vast majority of folk here use the inbuilt tuner? Hmmmm, they are missing out big time (then). PVRs (used to help skip ads) make PVR viewing far superior to inbuilt tuner viewing (IMO). Once you go PVR you never go back. Separate topic though.

Dennis.

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Sure, G-series ain't for you (look elsewhere).

Vast majority of folk here use the inbuilt tuner? Hmmmm, they are missing out big time (then). PVRs (used to help skip ads) make PVR viewing far superior to inbuilt tuner viewing (IMO). Once you go PVR you never go back. Separate topic though.

Dennis.

yeah I'm using my trusty old Toppy TF5000 pvrt for SD and it actually doesn't look too bad even though it only outputs via s-video. Damn I need to get a HD pvr now. The wife hit the roof after I told her that...."You just bought a damn HD TV and now u want what?!?!?! LOL!

Edited by runningmanz

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you will have “cinema smooth” enabled (96Hz) for Bluray

Hi. I'm very interested in finding out how you know that these displays do 96Hz when fed a 1080p24 signal. Thanks.

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