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ageha

Panasonic's 2009 Plasma Lineup

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I haven't found a review of the Australian G10 so I was hoping someone could comment. A review of the UK model said that it did not deinterlace film source properly.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-t...20090415146.htm

Has anyone got any comment on this?

Has anyone had a critical look at how the G10 displays 1080i film source ?

For me this is a serious limitation.

1080i film will not be de-interlaced properly by the G-series (it will always do video mode deinterlacing).

Same applies for 576i material (only video mode bob de-interlacing will occur).

This may be a deal breaker for some.

Not me because:

* Blu-ray is 1080p24, no issues there, film is stored in progressive format (not interlaced).

* DVD, I use an Oppo DVD player that emits full resolution 1080p for 576i and 480i content.

* Foxtel, I pump 576i into a Denon AV Receiver which pumps out 576p into the G-series.

Over the air HD and SD film material (US drama) will be de-interlaced non-optimally. It won't look crap, just slightly sub-optimal. It's a limitation, no doubt (for interlace film material only!! not Blu-ray).

Dennis.

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Has anyone got any comment on this?

Has anyone had a critical look at how the G10 displays 1080i film source ?

For me this is a serious limitation.

I have the Pana 50 'G' and along with the Pana blu-ray player, I run a Toshiba 1080i HD-DVD player. I LOVE this TV!! But, I am by no means an expert in the de-interlacing field, but the HD-DVD movies I watch on this model look perfect to me. I don't notice any major differences to blu-ray discs. Hope that helps with your decision.

Anyone got any tips on how to test it?

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1080i film will not be de-interlaced properly by the G-series (it will always do video mode deinterlacing).

Same applies for 576i material (only video mode bob de-interlacing will occur).

This may be a deal breaker for some.

What is the alternative? Does the Samsung de-interlace this content? Or the Panasonic BluRay player/AVRs do it better anyway?

tks.

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What is the alternative? Does the Samsung de-interlace this content? Or the Panasonic BluRay player/AVRs do it better anyway?

tks.

The question you should ask is whether it truly is a deal breaker.

My experience is that you still get superb results for over the air HD.

I watch "Grey's Anatomy" and "Private Practice" (the sad individual that I am, Kate Walsh is soo nice in HD BTW) last night on Seven HD. To me the result was great (even if it was 540p). I had no complaint.

With Panasonic Blu-ray there is no issue with the new G-series since you'll be sending full 1080p from the Blu-ray player to the TV. Repeat, there is NO RESOLUTION ISSUE when using Blu-ray.

The new Samsungs do de-interlace correctly (film de-interlace that is). The Panasonics do not de-interlace film correctly. As an owner of a G-series, it doesn't bother me since the results on the screen still look great me (for over the air HD).

Dennis.

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I've finally joined the Pana Plasma Club!

Got my 42inch PF11WK the other day. Dam Bluerays look good.

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The question you should ask is whether it truly is a deal breaker.

My experience is that you still get superb results for over the air HD.

I watch "Grey's Anatomy" and "Private Practice" (the sad individual that I am, Kate Walsh is soo nice in HD BTW) last night on Seven HD. To me the result was great (even if it was 540p). I had no complaint.

The new Samsungs do de-interlace correctly (film de-interlace that is). The Panasonics do not de-interlace film correctly. As an owner of a G-series, it doesn't bother me since the results on the screen still look great me (for over the air HD).

Dennis.

I don't fully understand the issue, so i don't know if its a deal breaker :P I guess if the Samsung did a better job of this aspect, then that is a factor to consider (i haven't decided between the G10 50" and the Sammy B650).

I don't know how often this situation might even be an issue, i've heard it is uncommon, but still occasional in BluRay discs, and presumably imported DVDs (i only have a couple of those).

Is FTA HD interlaced? If so, why? tks.

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I don't fully understand the issue, so i don't know if its a deal breaker :P I guess if the Samsung did a better job of this aspect, then that is a factor to consider (i haven't decided between the G10 50" and the Sammy B650).

I don't know how often this situation might even be an issue, i've heard it is uncommon, but still occasional in BluRay discs, and presumably imported DVDs (i only have a couple of those).

Is FTA HD interlaced? If so, why? tks.

The issue is that any film content that is interlaced that requires de-interlacing inside the Panasonic G-series (e.g. feeding 1080i into the G-series via HDMI or over the air 1080i) will not be de-interlaced optimally. Bob de-interlacing will be used thereby creating 540p rather than 1080p, weave de-interlacing would create full rez 1080p. Note this issue is for films, US dramas, not video material.

540p still looks great for over-the-air HD.

Blu-ray should NOT be feed 1080i style into the G-series, rather use 1080p24.

DVDs should be feed into the G-series as either 480p/576p/720p or 1080p, never 'interlace'.

I believe FTA 7,9,10 HD is 1080i.

I think ABC and SBS HD is 720p.

The G-series is a nice display, I don't consider this film-deinterlace issue to be that big of a deal. You might.

Note, each display has it's pros and cons. For instance the Samsung B650 LCD (with its better film de-interlacer) has poor view angles, has a fluctuating backlight, potentially may have a cloudy non uniform screen. Personally, they are much bigger issues to me than the Panasonic film-deinterlacer issue since I can side-step the Panasonic de-interlacer by using external processing, but I couldn't side step poor view angles, fluctuating backlight etc etc.

Dennis.

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I believe FTA 7,9,10 HD is 1080i.

I think ABC and SBS HD is 720p.

Interesting...cuz the FTA channels (7, 9, and OneHD) look awesome on my set (10 digital is good)...but ABC and SBS HD are pretty crap :( so I watch these two on Foxtel. OneHD is the BEST...absolutely amazing!

Edited by Godzilla

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Interesting...cuz the FTA channels look awesome on my set...but ABC and SBS HD are pretty crap :( so I watch these two on Foxtel. OneHD is the BEST...absolutely amazing!

Yes, I find the FTA HD stations (especially 10,7 and 9) look great be it film or video material.

Blu-ray even better still!!

Dennis.

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Note, each display has it's pros and cons. For instance the Samsung B650 LCD (with its better film de-interlacer) has poor view angles, has a fluctuating backlight, potentially may have a cloudy non uniform screen. Personally, they are much bigger issues to me than the Panasonic film-deinterlacer issue since I can side-step the Panasonic de-interlacer by using external processing, but I couldn't side step poor view angles, fluctuating backlight etc etc.

Dennis.

I meant the B650 plasma from Samsung. :) Their model numbers (and series numbers!) are confusing.

I finally saw the Samsung in the store today, and i was pleasantly surprised by the FAT SD PQ. It wasn't as bad as when i watched a Top Gear DVD on the Panasonic. I'm going to go and look at the Pana again to see if it was just poorly set up/poor choice of DVDs - but my god it was bad.

It may be the deciding factor for me - if the Panasonics FTA SD isn't as good as the Samsung - i might just go to the Samsung. For me, the FTA SD on a 50" screen at 3.5m is poor on the best of them (imo) - so i have to compromise. 50" is for the future of BluRay - but i have to be able to tolerate SD FTA too.

Edited by Recusant

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Do you tend to watch live TV or prerecord shows. Most PVRs and DVDRs upscale everything these days, so SD FTA is not such a big issue.

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Do you tend to watch live TV or prerecord shows. Most PVRs and DVDRs upscale everything these days, so SD FTA is not such a big issue.

That's kind of what i was trying to say earlier - does it matter if the source is the PVR or BluRay playing upscaled DVD.

To be honest though, if i were watching FTA, more often than not i wouldn't fire up all the kit - just the TV. Depends what it is.

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I meant the B650 plasma from Samsung. :) Their model numbers (and series numbers!) are confusing.

I finally saw the Samsung in the store today, and i was pleasantly surprised by the FAT SD PQ. It wasn't as bad as when i watched a Top Gear DVD on the Panasonic. I'm going to go and look at the Pana again to see if it was just poorly set up/poor choice of DVDs - but my god it was bad.

It may be the deciding factor for me - if the Panasonics FTA SD isn't as good as the Samsung - i might just go to the Samsung. For me, the FTA SD on a 50" screen at 3.5m is poor on the best of them (imo) - so i have to compromise. 50" is for the future of BluRay - but i have to be able to tolerate SD FTA too.

The Panasonic was probably in Dynamic mode.....which is terrible. A reasonably well setup G-series is never bad (bad as in unwatchable).

Both the Samsung and Panasonic plasmas are fine displays. Each has minor pros and cons (e.g. Panasonic has slightly deeper blacks, Samsung has a better screen filter and de-interlacer).

I find my Panasonic to be fine with SD (rubbish Foxtel SD no less!!). I feed in 576p (not 576i) via my Denon. Works out reasonable.

Which ever way you go I'm quite sure you'll be pleased.

Dennis.

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The Panasonic was probably in Dynamic mode.....

Both the Samsung and Panasonic plasmas are fine displays. Each has minor pros and cons (e.g. Panasonic has slightly deeper blacks, Samsung has a better screen filter and de-interlacer).

I find my Panasonic to be fine with SD (rubbish Foxtel SD no less!!). I feed in 576p (not 576i) via my Denon. Works out reasonable.

Which ever way you go I'm quite sure you'll be pleased.

Dennis.

Yes - it was in dynamic mode. I dropped in today to check up on some things.

The Panasonic looked fine with the FTA SD content, no issues there.

BUT, those gamma controls etc were not accessable - they're not available unless you use analogue inputs. Why?!

ps - i was offered a price of $2900 which included 4 yrs extra warranty. Unfortunately, that particular store didn't even have the Samsung on their books so he couldn't give me a price for it. But the lack of control over the picture irks me considerably.

Edited by Recusant

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Oh hang on - the instructions says:

"Advanced Settings

Set for colour balance, view and position (p. 33)

Set for colour balance in Normal or Cinema viewing mode"

I did change the view through the settings, but i might not have checked whilst in the Cinema or Normal mode - though i thought i did. I will check this out again.

Other commentry:

- The Panasonic has WAY better sound than the Samsung - just much easier on the ears - not tinny.

- The Samsung menus are WAY prettier and easier to navigate.

- The Samsung remote is backlit, and feels better in the hand.

- The Samsung screen goes right up to the bezel, which i suspect could lead to some minor reflection issues.

- The Panasonic Cinema mode is quite dull compared to the Samsungs equivelent, but in a suitably dimly lit room i suspect it's quite nice, even appropriate.

But, i think, at $2900 with 5 years warranty and a free Wii (which i'll sell!) i'm thinking i will have to go the Pana... i'm just so indecisive.

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I have tracked down a TH-50PZ80A model for $2300 (inc delivery). The marked price is $2500.

I still think that is a bit too much?

It looked better than the G-Series to me.

Thoughts?

And would I need extended warranty on this model?

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BUT, those gamma controls etc were not accessable - they're not available unless you use analogue inputs. Why?!

No, gamma adjustment is available for HDMI under Menu, Picture, Advanced....as long as you are in either Normal or Cinema mode.

Dennis.

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I have tracked down a TH-50PZ80A model for $2300 (inc delivery). The marked price is $2500.

I still think that is a bit too much?

It looked better than the G-Series to me.

Thoughts?

And would I need extended warranty on this model?

The PZ80A @ $2300 is way overpriced IMO. These were being picked up with a free bluray player worth $500 a couple of months ago for $2200, plus they have been superceded by the newer NeoPDP panels like the G series.

Plus there's the new free Wii bundle on the G/S series and older 58" & 65" PZ850.

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Well after a long wait trying to find out if 24p playback on the G10 and S10 was at 48hz or 96 hz here is the email reply I received from Pana Australia.

"Dear Gary.

Thank you for taking the time to contact Panasonic with your enquiry.

The 24p Playback is at 96Hz. Panasonic does not plan to release a 54 or 58 inch plasma in the G and V series.

Kind Regards,

Panasonic Customer Care"

So its confirmed! Very interesting that they said S10 also does 96hz. Wonder why Pana are not making a big deal of this or in fact even making any mention of it in their spec sheets?

That is just the trigger I needed to push me into the G10 or S10 purchase. I will go into battle today with Myer, HN, JB etc to see what kinda deal I can do. Its also a pity that they wont be brining in 54" and 58" G and V series, but hey 50" is the best bang for buck right now anyway.

Edited by Bertzz

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Well after a long wait trying to find out if 24p playback on the G10 and S10 was at 48hz or 96 hz here is the email reply I received from Pana Australia.

"Dear Gary.

Thank you for taking the time to contact Panasonic with your enquiry.

The 24p Playback is at 96Hz. Panasonic does not plan to release a 54 or 58 inch plasma in the G and V series.

Kind Regards,

Panasonic Customer Care"

So its confirmed! Very interesting that they said S10 also does 96hz. Wonder why Pana are not making a big deal of this or in fact even making any mention of it in their spec sheets?

That is just the trigger I needed to push me into the G10 or S10 purchase. I will go into battle today with Myer, HN, JB etc to see what kinda deal I can do. Its also a pity that they wont be brining in 54" and 58" G and V series, but hey 50" is the best bang for buck right now anyway.

Hey, it's confirmed, finally!!!

Glad my eyes weren't deceiving me (hehehe).

Yes, Panasonic should adverstize this as a feature.

Note, I do believe this 96Hz feature was first introduced in last years Panasonic range (in PAL countries, NOT US), it's not something new for this year (in my opinion).

I believe it's called "24p Film Playback" (in Panasonic speak).

Pity about no 54/58inch G or V, that's seems a bit crazy?

Dennis.

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Pity about no 54/58inch G or V, that's seems a bit crazy?

But if the 54S10 does 24p @ 96 hz which is what the email indicates, then its in the running depending on price. Just have to decide if its worth waiting till Oct for 4" more, most women would say hell yeah-lol.

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But if the 54S10 does 24p @ 96 hz which is what the email indicates, then its in the running depending on price. Just have to decide if its worth waiting till Oct for 4" more, most women would say hell yeah-lol.

But the S is using last years panel....unfortunately.

550Hz processing instead of 600Hz of G-series.

5120 colour steps vs 6144 steps of G-series.

30,000:1 contrast vs 40,000:1 contrast of G-series.

G-series is using new NeoPDP panel, S-series isn't.

I think a G or V or new Samsung (650 or 850) would suit you better than an S.

Or you could wait another year for the "infinite black" PDPs Panasonic promises to deliver one year from now :D

Dennis.

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550Hz processing instead of 600Hz of G-series.

Does it make a difference?

5120 colour steps vs 6144 steps of G-series.

Video only has a maximum of 256 steps per colour, going from 5120 to 6144 is irrelevant.

30,000:1 contrast vs 40,000:1 contrast of G-series.

No Panasonic has ever achieved even 10,000:1 contrast ratio let alone 40,000:1, manufacturers CR numbers are meaningless. There is a difference between the last generation panel and the latest, but it’s not big.

Let your eyes tell you if the G series is worth more cash then the S series, not specs.

How can the 54” S series use the same panel as last year when there was no 54” panel last year as far as I know?

I very much doubt Panasonic will be making two different panels of the same size and pixel configuration, it would be far too costly and makes no sense to do so.

Edited by Owen

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Does anyone not like the type of Glass the new Panasonics use - especially in brightly lit rooms ?

I find it kind of reflects too much - a bit too tinted for my likings.

Other than this, my new Japanese built 50" is great.

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