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Panasonic's 2009 Plasma Lineup

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Reading the downloadable manual, it seemed to me that unless i missed something, these controls were only for VGA/ PC input (although it seemed odd to me that these controls would be available for PC but not other inputs). Can anyone who actually owns one of these TVs confirm the availability of these controls for all inputs?

I own a G-series panel.

Gamma and R/B colour are accessible via HDMI as long as you are in Normal/Cinema Picture mode.

Note, the Aussie G-series is the best G-series available anywhere due to

* 1080p24 replay at 96Hz (the US model only does 48Hz which flickers badly).

* Gamma control and R/B high/low colour control (unlike the UK model which don't have these)

* US model does have THX Colour (but that apparently is sepia in tone) and is quite dull (it is mainly for dark room viewing only). One can calibrate our model (Cinema mode) quite close to industry standard 6500K/2.2 Gamma.

I consider the G-series quite a good deal due to

* Only available 42inch 1080p plasma screen.

* Natural plasma advantages of: view angle, motion resolution, black level (in subdued lighting), contrast.

* I just don't like 100Hz processing in the latest LCDs, the Panasonic 100Hz mode is a frame doubler rather than a frame interpolator (I hate frame interpolators).

Being balanced, some disadvantages of G-series are

* Power consumption IS more than equiv LCDs (roughly 220-260W vs 120-150W for equiv LCDs).

* In bright conditions the best LCDs are blacker. But I only view TV at night, so no big deal for me.

* SD processing sucks a little bit, to my eyes the new Samsungs have better SD processing, but I have external SD processing anyway.

Dennis.

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* 1080p24 replay at 96Hz (the US model only does 48Hz which flickers badly).

Hi Dennis

Please advise how you know the above to be a fact because the Pana website says the following "1,080/24p @ 24Hz (27KHz)" under the spec tab for the 50G10 for HDMI?

If it does do 1080p24 @ 96Hz rather than 24Hz or 48Hz, it would be excellent and there would be no incentive for me to buy the V10 - so I hope this is true, but cant seem to find it listed anywhere.

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Hi Dennis

Please advise how you know the above to be a fact because the Pana website says the following "1,080/24p @ 24Hz (27KHz)" under the spec tab for the 50G10 for HDMI?

If it does do 1080p24 @ 96Hz rather than 24Hz or 48Hz, it would be excellent and there would be no incentive for me to buy the V10 - so I hope this is true, but cant seem to find it listed anywhere.

Bertzz,

I believe the Panasonic picture feature named "24p Film Playback" means 96Hz.

This is for PAL areas only, Europe and Australia. Notice the reviews from Europe about 24p playback on Panasonic plasmas never complain about flicker but the US reviews do (models less than V-series).

Note, this is NOT new. Last years models also followed this paradigm. I don't understand why Panasonic doesn't advertise this great feature. Owners of last years 800series should be able to provide some proof. Also Google "24p Film Playback 96Hz".

Anyway, you don't need a V-series to get flicker free 24p (at a nice multiple).....IMO :)

Dennis.

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Bertzz,

I believe the Panasonic picture feature named "24p Film Playback" means 96Hz.

This is for PAL areas only, Europe and Australia. Notice the reviews from Europe about 24p playback on Panasonic plasmas never complain about flicker but the US reviews do (models less than V-series).

Note, this is NOT new. Last years models also followed this paradigm. I don't understand why Panasonic doesn't advertise this great feature. Owners of last years 800series should be able to provide some proof. Also Google "24p Film Playback 96Hz".

Anyway, you don't need a V-series to get flicker free 24p (at a nice multiple).....IMO :)

Dennis.

Dennis

Last years PZ800 did not have 24p @ 96Hz and most people complained about flicker as did the reviews. As a side point, the flicker was not evident all the time but rather only on scenes with a lot of white. I dont believe that the European version of the G10 has 24p @ 96 Hz but please provide a link if you know this to be true. In looking at the German Pana website it just says "24p Playback - Ja" nothing about 48hz or 96hz.

Edited by Bertzz

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Dennis

Last years PZ800 did not have 24p @ 96Hz and most people complained about flicker as did the reviews. As a side point, the flicker was not evident all the time but rather only on scenes with a lot of white. I dont believe that the European version of the G10 has 24p @ 96 Hz but please provide a link if you know this to be true. In looking at the German Pana website it just says "24p Playback - Ja" nothing about 48hz or 96hz.

Not that I wish to start a disagreement but I disagree :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....21#post16001021

http://www.dtvforum.info/lofiversion/index.php/t71804.html

Also note that the US G-series has a control to specify either 48Hz or 60Hz for 24p content.

The Aussie one doest not (because I believe ours does 96Hz).

The British reviews of the G-series dont' complain about 24p flicker

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-t...20090415146.htm

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-...G10-Review.html

The US C-net review does complain about flicker

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/pan...7-33497899.html

I believe the Aussie G-series refreshes 24p at 96Hz.

Dennis.

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I own a G-series panel.

Gamma and R/B colour are accessible via HDMI as long as you are in Normal/Cinema Picture mode.

Dennis.

Dennis thanks for all your replies and info, I too like Bertz am holding off for the V series. I may take a closer look at the G series now because of your help.

I am a bit confused about what you mean by "accesable via HDMI". I know about connecting equipment using HDMI inputs, but not sure how that relates to adjusting parameters on the TV. I assumed this was done using a "SET UP" type menu on the TV.

Thanks again for your help.

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Dennis thanks for all your replies and info, I too like Bertz am holding off for the V series. I may take a closer look at the G series now because of your help.

I am a bit confused about what you mean by "accesable via HDMI". I know about connecting equipment using HDMI inputs, but not sure how that relates to adjusting parameters on the TV. I assumed this was done using a "SET UP" type menu on the TV.

Thanks again for your help.

Yes, SET UP menu.

Note, I do also own a Panasonic BD-35, so I will be able to personally test 24p handling tomorrow ("to flicker or not to flicker").

Just haven't had a chance to test it this week (due to other time factors).

I personally don't see that big a benefit of the V-series over the G-series. Maybe some more controls etc, but the Aussie G-series seems pretty well loaded to me.

Note the British V-series also misses out on Gamma and R/B controls. The Brits got screwed over big time by Panasonic, luckily not us :)

Dennis.

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Yes, SET UP menu.

Note, I do also own a Panasonic BD-35, so I will be able to personally test 24p handling tomorrow ("to flicker or not to flicker").

Just haven't had a chance to test it this week (due to other time factors).

I personally don't see that big a benefit of the V-series over the G-series. Maybe some more controls etc, but the Aussie G-series seems pretty well loaded to me.

Note the British V-series also misses out on Gamma and R/B controls. The Brits got screwed over big time by Panasonic, luckily not us :)

Dennis.

I will be watching here with keen anticipation of your test results as I still have not seen one official source anywhere or any review that says our G series or the European ones do 24p at 96Hz even if the reviewers in Europe didnt complain about it. Maybe they didnt watch scenes where this is more accentuated (bright scene)? In some US reviews they give some example BD disks that exhibit flicker, that may be a good place to start as most viewing does not exhibit flicker at 48Hz and thus just watching any arbitrary subset of BD material will not reveal this. I really hope you are correct on this.

Edited by Bertzz

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Please advise how you know the above to be a fact because the Pana website says the following "1,080/24p @ 24Hz (27KHz)" under the spec tab for the 50G10 for HDMI?

AFAIK, Bluray players can output 24p for film source: they wouldn't output 48p or 96p.

The 48Hz and 96Hz figures you mention would be the TV taking the 24p input and refreshing the display at multiples of the input (effectively 48p and 96p). Consequently the HDMI specs would include 1080/24p but make no mention of 48Hz or 96Hz as that is an internal TV processing specification (as would be de-interlacing and IVTC if supported).

The trick would be to find specifications on the TVs internal processing capabilities. Panasonic seem to quote the 600Hz subfield processing a lot, but I guess they don't mention the really important stuff to consumers.

It's interesting that flicker is perceived as an issue for plasma TVs: it used to only be the province of CRT displays due to the scanning electron beam and phosphor persistence. CRT based computer monitors were generally recommended to be refreshed at least 72Hz to reduce flicker perception, but it also depends on viewing distance. One would play 24p material, but set the graphics card to output 72Hz: the GPU would simply repeat each source frame 3x in the duration of each frame. In the case of the TV, it would seem to be performing a similar function to the graphics card, internally.

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Hi All. First post, but I have been following all of your discussions over the past few months.

Based on all of the comments here and the price / features of the pana G10 series, I though I had landed on a 50" G10.

However, I've been looking at a few in stores lately and have noticed something odd.

To my eyes at least, I discern noticeable flicker on the panasonic plasma range, mainly when they are displaying a white screen, and it appears even more noticeable when viewed using peripheral vision.

I was looking at a wall of plasmas today, all displaying the same source (component - bluray and free to air), and noticed all three panas on display (G's & X) had flicker on pictures with heavy whites, whilst the other brands did not (LG, Pioneer, Sammy). I have noticed this in more than one store also.

Has anyone else noticed this, or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

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I own a G-series panel.

Gamma and R/B colour are accessible via HDMI as long as you are in Normal/Cinema Picture mode.

Note, the Aussie G-series is the best G-series available anywhere due to

* 1080p24 replay at 96Hz (the US model only does 48Hz which flickers badly).

* Gamma control and R/B high/low colour control (unlike the UK model which don't have these)

* US model does have THX Colour (but that apparently is sepia in tone) and is quite dull (it is mainly for dark room viewing only). One can calibrate our model (Cinema mode) quite close to industry standard 6500K/2.2 Gamma.

I consider the G-series quite a good deal due to

* Only available 42inch 1080p plasma screen.

* Natural plasma advantages of: view angle, motion resolution, black level (in subdued lighting), contrast.

* I just don't like 100Hz processing in the latest LCDs, the Panasonic 100Hz mode is a frame doubler rather than a frame interpolator (I hate frame interpolators).

Being balanced, some disadvantages of G-series are

* Power consumption IS more than equiv LCDs (roughly 220-260W vs 120-150W for equiv LCDs).

* In bright conditions the best LCDs are blacker. But I only view TV at night, so no big deal for me.

* SD processing sucks a little bit, to my eyes the new Samsungs have better SD processing, but I have external SD processing anyway.

Dennis.

In your opinion, is the SD processing a deal breaker? My old TV just blew up so seriously thinking of the 42" G10. I watch plenty of SD, so it needs to be pretty damn good.

How are you doing SD processing and how much did you pay (are you talking a new series G10)?

Evan.

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* Only available 42inch 1080p plasma screen.

Dennis - THANKYOU for bringing some real information about the G-series. But i'm confused about the above quote - what do you mean by this? Do you mean 42"+

Edited by Recusant

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But i'm confused about the above quote - what do you mean by this? Do you mean 42"+

He means it's the only 1080p 42" plasma on the market

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Ok, been playing with my new toy this morning (42inch G-series).

Hooked up my BD-35 Blu-ray player. Sending 1080p24 into the G-series. I see "NO" flicker, I see "NO" 60Hz judder (I do see natural 24p judder...which I like....I don't like smooth!!). I "THINK" the G-series is doing 96Hz (as I suspected). BUT.....I can not prove it :)

I'm using Cinema mode, Warm colour, all useless crap turned off (IFC, overscan, XV colour etc). Using 2.2 Gamma (user adjustable, yippee!!). I see an excellent picture indeed. Real pop with Wall-E and Dark Knight.

With direct sunlight on the set, black level does decrease......but it's not that bad (very similar to my CRT). I can live with it. Note, I do most viewing at night with soft lighting. With those conditions the set is lovely.

SD processing.....is livable (read the UK reviews I linked to previously). I would NOT make the SD processing the one deciding factor of whether to get a G-series or not. By it's very nature SD sucks (in a hard to polish a turd kind of way). The new Samsungs are better at SD (but it is NOT night and day).

Side note, I don't see the benefit of a V-series over a G-series since I strongly believe we get 96Hz on our G-series AND we get advanced colour/gamma controls.

Anyway, tonight I'll do some more calibration and fiddling.

I'm very much pleased with the G-series (in my short time owning it).

Dennis.

P.S. No set is perfect, hence, G-series is not for everyone (e.g super bright, super black in daylight)........but.......it is an excellent allrounder with a clean unprocessed look (e.g. I don't like LCD 100Hz smooth. I know some like LCD smooth, not me).

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He means it's the only 1080p 42" plasma on the market

Yep exactly.

My cabinet restricts me to the 40-42inch market.

I did not WANT any 1024x768 Plasmas due to my desire for NO ARTIFICIAL processing (even down scaling). Plus if you sit close enough you can see the difference between a 1080p and 768p set even on a 42inch screen.

Hence my choices boiled down to Panasonic G-series, Sony W5500 and Samsung B650LCD.

The W5500 was eliminated due to: continuing reports of backlight bleed problems and 100Htz introducing video effect (turn off 100Hz and motion resolution drops to 300lines).

Samsung eliminated due to funny buggers about different LCD screens in different B650 models, some use Samsung S-PVA, some use AOU, etc (read the British AV forums). The screen also uses a permanent dyn-contrast backlight (fluctuating backlight). That eliminated it for me.

So I was left with the G-series in a last man standing scenario. G-series is also the cheapest which is nice :D

Dennis.

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This doesn't help me decide between the Samsung and the Panasonic :P But now i'm leaning more toward the Panasonic again - i don't watch TV during the day generally. We'll see. Maybe Panasonic will get more serious - Samsung are throwing out all the stops with their free 22" TV - that's a very appealing deal.

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This doesn't help me decide between the Samsung and the Panasonic :P But now i'm leaning more toward the Panasonic again - i don't watch TV during the day generally. We'll see. Maybe Panasonic will get more serious - Samsung are throwing out all the stops with their free 22" TV - that's a very appealing deal.

I bought the Panasonic TH-P46G10A today ($2400 at Myer Perth). Delivery is next week in time for the sate of origin.

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Hooked up my BD-35 Blu-ray player. Sending 1080p24 into the G-series. I see "NO" flicker, I see "NO" 60Hz judder (I do see natural 24p judder...which I like....I don't like smooth!!). I "THINK" the G-series is doing 96Hz (as I suspected). BUT.....I can not prove it :)

Hi Dennis

I dont want to get into an argument with you about this 96Hz things but I also dont want thousands of people that read this forum to suddenly believe this as a fact when there is no proof whatsoever. The circumstantial evidence is this. Can anyone believe that Pana would put the 96Hz feature into a telie and not put it all over the fact sheets, websites and announce it all over the press, forums and reviews just like they do with the V10! Furthermore, it is very hard to believe that the circuitry was added to out G10 to do this but not to the US version (or European) which is considerably more important to Pana globally. Therefore, I believe until proven otherwise that the Aussie G10 does not have 96Hz 24p but rather either 48Hz or 3:2 pulldown. It is however important to note what people like yourself think of its performance in the 24p area and if you can notice flicker. Some people notice it more than others and if it is there but only affects 2% of people then it is probably a no-event. The fact that you cant notice flicker is an endorsement for the product but does not prove 96Hz capability.

Just my 2c, hope you dont take offence.

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Hi Dennis

I dont want to get into an argument with you about this 96Hz things but I also dont want thousands of people that read this forum to suddenly believe this as a fact when there is no proof whatsoever. The circumstantial evidence is this. Can anyone believe that Pana would put the 96Hz feature into a telie and not put it all over the fact sheets, websites and announce it all over the press, forums and reviews just like they do with the V10! Furthermore, it is very hard to believe that the circuitry was added to out G10 to do this but not to the US version (or European) which is considerably more important to Pana globally. Therefore, I believe until proven otherwise that the Aussie G10 does not have 96Hz 24p but rather either 48Hz or 3:2 pulldown. It is however important to note what people like yourself think of its performance in the 24p area and if you can notice flicker. Some people notice it more than others and if it is there but only affects 2% of people then it is probably a no-event. The fact that you cant notice flicker is an endorsement for the product but does not prove 96Hz capability.

Just my 2c, hope you dont take offence.

Like I said I can't prove it.

But, some food for thought.

US V-series clearly states 96Hz as a benefit over G-series.

US G-series has a switch to flick between 48HZ or 60Hz for 24p content.

US G-series reviews mention flicker in the 48Hz mode.

Riddle me this.

Aus/Euro V-series does NOT mention 96Hz as a benefit.

Aus/Euro G-series does NOT have a 48Hz/60Hz switch (for 24p content).

Euro G-series reviews do NOT mention flicker AND do mention 24p is handled judder free (60Hz judder free).

Why?

I ran some more 24p content last night.

I don't see flicker (even standing 1 foot away from the screen using my peripheral vision) when sending in 24p content from my BD-35.

I truly believe the main V-series benefits (in PAL regions like Aus) over the G-series are

* THX colour.

* 24p Film Smooth (interpolation)

* Nicer design.

Yes, Panasonic did screw the US (G-series wise for 24p handling).

Note, Panasonic also screwed the Brits (they don't get our colour/gamma control).

My belief Bertzz would be if you purhased a G-series you would be very happy.

If you purchase a V-series, that would also be an excellent purchase.

Dennis.

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Perhaps Panasonic don't mention the feature in the G series because they want people to wait and purchase the more expensive V series... Just a thought!

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Perhaps Panasonic don't mention the feature in the G series because they want people to wait and purchase the more expensive V series... Just a thought!

Nope.

V-series is already on sale in the UK/Europe, no mention of 96Hz.

If it were such an important feature (of the Euro V-series) it would be mentioned.

Note,

US G-series has THX (as does the V-series).

Aus/Euro G-series does not THX (V-series will have THX).

I think the main difference between US G and V series is 96Hz processing.

I think the main difference between Aus/Euro G and V series is THX colour.

Dennis.

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Having White Balance and Gamma controls does make the decision between a Sammy or Panasonic a little closer for me but after making some cardboard cutouts of viewable screen sizes for a 50", 54", 58" and a 63", I have decided that for our 6.5m x 5.5m room a 63" is required. (.eg. Samsung PS63B680).

The minimum size would be 58" but I don't see a 58" Neo Panasonic mentioned anywhere and even if there were, it would be more costly than a Samsung PS63B680. The only thing that worries me about the PS63B680 is build quality and mild input lag for gaming which I read in one of the Sammy reviews somewhere.

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Having White Balance and Gamma controls does make the decision between a Sammy or Panasonic a little closer for me but after making some cardboard cutouts of viewable screen sizes for a 50", 54", 58" and a 63", I have decided that for our 6.5m x 5.5m room a 63" is required. (.eg. Samsung PS63B680).

The minimum size would be 58" but I don't see a 58" Neo Panasonic mentioned anywhere and even if there were, it would be more costly than a Samsung PS63B680. The only thing that worries me about the PS63B680 is build quality and mild input lag for gaming which I read in one of the Sammy reviews somewhere.

The new B series Samsungs are excellent (1080p models).

I'm sure you'll like it if you buy.

Dennis.

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The new B series Samsungs are excellent (1080p models).

I'm sure you'll like it if you buy.

Dennis.

Yeah, I'm probably worried about nothing really. Like someone said elsewhere here, "no panel is perfect".

I'll be upgrading from a 34" Sony CRT so the PS63B680 should blow me away.

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Hello to all

I had 42inch G series to play with couple days with before I returned to get refund . After using my Fujitsu 40 and 50 40US(which was also not perfect but really good ) I must say I am more than disappointed with new Panasonic G series plasma and overall progress with plasma technology even after 10th of generations of plasmas. First at all I was missing beautiful natural colour and overall smooth picture quality from now almost 4 year old Fujitsu plasma also from SD source Panasonic is big disappointment picture is to soft not good scaling video processor ,when it comes with native Full HD source picture sharpness is good which is normal and expected as on most today Full HD panels, I can just tell only you don’t trust what is written in technical numbers!, numbers are only on paper real test is what you see ,Panasonic G10 colour is big disappointment IMHO comparing to Fujitsu it is bit dull unreal colour (to not discuss about, this can not be calibrated due to panel filter effect on it) it has maybe better black than 42 Fujitsu model but not 50 Fujitsu ,however most ppl just don’t get it is not all in making screen to have best unreal black by putting on it Black filter it is same as watching TV with sunglasses which will have effect on natural colour and reduce natural look brightness , maybe hard to understand but this only can tell ppl how have owned Fujitsu plasmas will confirm,it is not all in Black ! Plasma maker to make picture black as possible doing only tricks putting filter layer over plasma displays and by doing this also have to in some way sacrifice some of most important thing natural color look and brightness and think that Fujitsu engineers have made some kind of balance providing us with one of best looking pictures on Plasma Technology. New Panasonic have some advantages over old Fujitsu like less snow green grain and banding than 100Htz but it is newest technology panel and 4 years in front of Fujitsu now. I am only sad that Fujitsu stopped making plasma could only imagine what now we would have in new Fujitsu generations plasmas :( In other hand it will be different story next year when come in play first OLED TV-s some of the best picture quality man ever experienced (and with this technology we will again see big return of some great brands from Europe which will bring us back High quality made built in TV sets like before with CRT-s) and most important is on track first technology which can be perfect choice after 50 years of using great old CRT TV display technology and I think after that we will have stable TV Technology and which will be successor in term of quality and perfection like it was CRT for many years to come ,so ppl save your money now and don’t waist hard earned money on Technology like Plasmas or LCD-s with full of imperfections.

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