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Price Rise For Lcd/plasmas


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New panasonic price list came through this week.

Price rise of approx 10% starts on all orders not filled by feb 01.

Have only heard JVC and Sharp price rise 10% from Jan 01.

Samsung price rise of 10% on LED models mid jan sometime ( not sure on other models ).

Sony is still only rumours at this stage.

Lg have pretty much cleared every tv they have and the new models in march will attract a new price.

Interesting times for everyone.

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New panasonic price list came through this week.

Price rise of approx 10% starts on all orders not filled by feb 01.

Have only heard JVC and Sharp price rise 10% from Jan 01.

Samsung price rise of 10% on LED models mid jan sometime ( not sure on other models ).

Sony is still only rumours at this stage.

Lg have pretty much cleared every tv they have and the new models in march will attract a new price.

Interesting times for everyone.

link or it didn't happen...

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New panasonic price list came through this week.

Price rise of approx 10% starts on all orders not filled by feb 01.

Have only heard JVC and Sharp price rise 10% from Jan 01.

Samsung price rise of 10% on LED models mid jan sometime ( not sure on other models ).

Sony is still only rumours at this stage.

Lg have pretty much cleared every tv they have and the new models in march will attract a new price.

Interesting times for everyone.

I better wait for the new models...

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From whirlpool-

ok, guys. i have an attatchment to an email from panasonic here which lists all of their plasma range.

it has old trade prices including and excluding gst and old RRP as well as NEW trade prices inc and ex GST and NEW RRP prices.

i have been trying to upload a copy to wiki (i have blacked out trade prices, as i value my job) but my scanner is givin me the shits.

if anyone would like to see this i will take a photo of it and email it directly to you. For now you get a quick rundown on old and new RRP effective 01/02/09

Model / OLD RRP / NEW RRP

TH65PZ850A – 11999 – 13099

TH58PZ850A – 7699 – 8299

TH50PZ850A – 3899 – 4399

TH50PZ800A – 3649 – 3899

TH46PZ800A – 3299 – 3599

TH42PZ800A – 2899 – 3199

TH50PZ80A – 3099 – 3299

TH42PZ80A – 2549 – 2699

TH50PX80A – 2399 – 2599

TH42PX80A – 1899 – 1999

TH42PX8A – 1699 – 1799

now kepp in mind these are RRP's not go prices – i quote from the email "The Recommended Retail Price set out herein is a recommended price only, and there is no obligation to comply with the recommendation. All prices and specifications are subject to change without notice"

Also from the email _ "Please note that all orders held by Panasonic as at 01 Feb 2009 will be supplied at 1st February pricing. (regardless of the date of order placement).

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Panasonic are pushing to clear all there current inventory in both the stores and there wharehouse.

They have given retailers buy in and sell thru allowances which will allow them to sell the unit at $1499 and just break even , considering there a few retailers pretty close to biting the bullet they new someone would do it in the sales period and everyone else would have to follow.

Most full hd stock was cleared during the wii promotion.

Of course when you re-stock your up for the new cost price.

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Panasonic are pushing to clear all there current inventory in both the stores and there wharehouse.

They have given retailers buy in and sell thru allowances which will allow them to sell the unit at $1499 and just break even , considering there a few retailers pretty close to biting the bullet they new someone would do it in the sales period and everyone else would have to follow.

Most full hd stock was cleared during the wii promotion.

Of course when you re-stock your up for the new cost price.

And I hope all retailers have plenty of TV's and nobody buying them, Now I would love to see that and I would not be surprised if this will be the case. I don't care about the ADollar.

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And I hope all retailers have plenty of TV's and nobody buyin.000..0. g them, Now I would love to see that and I would not be surprised if this will be the case. I don't care about the ADollar.

I used to think people would protest and would not buy the sets but even though we are apparently in a recession there are still plenty of people with plenty of money. A price rise of 10% is only $100-$250 on the average priced set and over a short period of time the average consumer will forget about it and just shop for the best set they can get for their money.

Obviously if Samsung being the main plasma competition doesnt raise prices Panasonic will be forced to back down or take a serious market share drop ( which they dont have too much of at the moment ).

Should be fun to watch.

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Just got my crystal ball out of the back shed, its not working properly anymore since the chook's kacked on it, otherwise I'd have a dead set answer if TV's will rise or they won't!.

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I used to think people would protest and would not buy the sets but even though we are apparently in a recession there are still plenty of people with plenty of money. A price rise of 10% is only $100-$250 on the average priced set and over a short period of time the average consumer will forget about it and just shop for the best set they can get for their money.

Obviously if Samsung being the main plasma competition doesnt raise prices Panasonic will be forced to back down or take a serious market share drop ( which they dont have too much of at the moment ).

Should be fun to watch.

A 10% price rise on a new Pioneer LX609 is $1000 more. Just think I was just about to buy one to replace one of my LG's I flogged off to my mate.

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I used to think people would protest and would not buy the sets but even though we are apparently in a recession there are still plenty of people with plenty of money. A price rise of 10% is only $100-$250 on the average priced set and over a short period of time the average consumer will forget about it and just shop for the best set they can get for their money.

Obviously if Samsung being the main plasma competition doesnt raise prices Panasonic will be forced to back down or take a serious market share drop ( which they dont have too much of at the moment ).

Should be fun to watch.

People will just buy cheaper TVs, they buy what they can afford. I doubt a price rise will hurt anybody.

Edited by ageha
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People will just buy cheaper TVs, they buy what they can afford. I doubt a price rise will hurt anybody.

...and if only everyone applied the same mindset to using credit cards...it's a nice thought that people will just buy what they can afford, and that a rise won't hurt anybody, but that's just being naive.

Edited by reags
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...and if only everyone applied the same mindset to using credit cards...it's a nice thought that people will just buy what they can afford, and that a rise won't hurt anybody, but that's just being naive.

We're talking about TVs not water and bread. If you can't afford it you don't need to buy it. There will be always a more expensive and a cheaper option. It doesn't really matter what you get for $1000.

Edited by ageha
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A price rise and the baby bonus no longer being paid in lump sum I fear it may be the end of an industry... RIP HDTV :P

Just joking... my new plasma should be here in the next couple of weeks.

In all seriousness, it's to be expected as a lot of this stock was probably ordered back when the dollar was stronger. This is just one of those price adjustments. It will no doubt just lead to more promo deals (ie. LGs free LCDs) If you can't move units give them away - cheaper than cutting the price!

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I used to think people would protest and would not buy the sets but even though we are apparently in a recession there are still plenty of people with plenty of money. A price rise of 10% is only $100-$250 on the average priced set and over a short period of time the average consumer will forget about it and just shop for the best set they can get for their money.

As an average consumer with money, a 10% or 20% price rise won't hurt me, but I, like the average consumer wants the best deal.

If I know these sets have gone up in price 10-20%, I won't buy it out of principle

i.e. there is no way I'm going to pay 10-20% more than what Joe did down the road, irrespective of the $A.

Today's 9 gen kuros, will most likely be 40% cheaper in 6 months time, so why should I pay 10-15% more now than a month ago for what was already an outrageously over-priced set?

It can gather dust in the warehouse until it must be sold to pay for the retailer's electricity bill at the price I am prepared to pay.

I bet many a consumer will be thinking this way and I'm not even taking into account the many people out there that are scaling back on their spending because of job insecurity and impending recession.

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If you have the best product why wouldn’t you charge a premium price for it?

Pioneers pricing is about where it should be for a premium product and is half what it was 2 years ago; the fact that other manufacturer’s products are stupidly cheap is irrelevant. I don’t see luxury car makers dropping their prices, if you want one you will pay or go without.

It seems that no matter how cheap TV’s get people are never happy and expect even cheaper prices year on year, obviously there is a point where product quality must suffer and I believe we are reaching the point where low prices are holding back the development of innovative new technology. If it can’t be done cheap know one wants to know about it.

New technology and innovative products come in at the top end of the market and flow down to cheaper products over time, if know one wants to pay for those high end products development of new technologies is restricted, and that’s bad news as fare as I am concerned.

I don’t have a problem with pricing these days, even Pioneers prices are very reasonable IMHO, but I do have a problem with the availability of high end product, there is simply nothing I want to buy at any price and probably wound be for another 18 months.

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If you have the best product why wouldn’t you charge a premium price for it?

Pioneers pricing is about where it should be for a premium product and is half what it was 2 years ago; the fact that other manufacturer’s products are stupidly cheap is irrelevant. I don’t see luxury car makers dropping their prices, if you want one you will pay or go without.

It seems that no matter how cheap TV’s get people are never happy and expect even cheaper prices year on year, obviously there is a point where product quality must suffer and I believe we are reaching the point where low prices are holding back the development of innovative new technology. If it can’t be done cheap know one wants to know about it.

New technology and innovative products come in at the top end of the market and flow down to cheaper products over time, if know one wants to pay for those high end products development of new technologies is restricted, and that’s bad news as fare as I am concerned.

I don’t have a problem with pricing these days, even Pioneers prices are very reasonable IMHO, but I do have a problem with the availability of high end product, there is simply nothing I want to buy at any price and probably wound be for another 18 months.

Owen I am aware of couple people who have picked up the Audi S3 Limited edition, which is RRP On the roda 85to87K, they have had it brand new for $65k on the road.

It is a buyers market. All the price raising is a scare tactic, I fully agree with Jimval. Sure RRP prices of TVs will go high, but the buy out price after a few monts will be cheap as is now, the fact that Pio is using Pana screens soon (one initiative) should help the cost cutting to keep the street prices down. You just have to look at the economy and where it is heading. High end products dont necessarily have to cost more, eg your Sony 70inch. does a brilliant job and could have been bought for less then $5k. I should have bought one, did initiallt buy the 60inch but the deal fell through later on.

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Why will it be 40% cheaper in six months time?

Your logic escapes me?

40% is probably a little high, but Pioneer for at least the last three model line ups have charged a premium early (they usually release new models in Australia around October/November/ and then when Panasonic release their new models around 6 months later, Pioneer beginning dropping their prices in response.

They all do it, not just pioneer.

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Mick,

Maybe. But IMO 40% is a bit OTT.

It's the same old story - do you buy now and have the enjoyment of

the product for the intervening period?

- or -

do you wait for the closeout and discontinued model deals,

save a bit of money, and maybe get hit by a bus in the meantime! :)

With the sort of product we're talking about

early adopters always lose money.

Hell, I don't even want to think about how much

money I've "lost" in ugrading hi-fi and video gear in the

last couple of years.

Hang on a minute, I'll just do a quick tot up:

Panasonic AE2000 Original RRP (NZD) $5499

bought July 08, $4500, now $2999 - AE3000 now RRP $4999

Samsung BDP-1400, bought Nov 07 $550, BDP- 1500 now $499

Sony SXRD 60" bought Dec 06 $5499.00 (discontinued) replaced

with Plasma or LCD

Philips 47" LCD, bought Nov 07 $2999.00 now less than $2000.00

And so I can go on and on.....

It will be very interesting to re-visit this thread in 6 months time.

Edited by crtlover
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Maybe. But IMO 40% is a bit OTT.

Hell, I don't even want to think about how much money I've "lost" in ugrading hi-fi and video gear in the last couple of years.

Totally agreed, hence my comment 40% is a little high.

At some price point, people are comfortable parting with hard earned cash for their new gadget. In HT gear, it's always going to be cheaper if you wait long enough (I bought a 50" Pana over 2 years ago for $4100 as soon as they released a model with built in HD tuner). Like you I could have bought nearly double of everything I now own, but that's two years down the track. I am glad I bought my gear when i did.

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Owen I am aware of couple people who have picked up the Audi S3 Limited edition, which is RRP On the roda 85to87K, they have had it brand new for $65k on the road.

It is a buyers market. All the price raising is a scare tactic, I fully agree with Jimval. Sure RRP prices of TVs will go high, but the buy out price after a few monts will be cheap as is now, the fact that Pio is using Pana screens soon (one initiative) should help the cost cutting to keep the street prices down. You just have to look at the economy and where it is heading. High end products dont necessarily have to cost more, eg your Sony 70inch. does a brilliant job and could have been bought for less then $5k. I should have bought one, did initiallt buy the 60inch but the deal fell through later on.

Good price, I paid over €40k in Germany. I thought an Audi would be more expensive here.

Mick,

Maybe. But IMO 40% is a bit OTT.

It's the same old story - do you buy now and have the enjoyment of

the product for the intervening period?

- or -

do you wait for the closeout and discontinued model deals,

save a bit of money, and maybe get hit by a bus in the meantime! :)

With the sort of product we're talking about

early adopters always lose money.

Hell, I don't even want to think about how much

money I've "lost" in ugrading hi-fi and video gear in the

last couple of years.

Hang on a minute, I'll just do a quick tot up:

Panasonic AE2000 Original RRP (NZD) $5499

bought July 08, $4500, now $2999 - AE3000 now RRP $4999

Samsung BDP-1400, bought Nov 07 $550, BDP- 1500 now $499

Sony SXRD 60" bought Dec 06 $5499.00 (discontinued) replaced

with Plasma or LCD

Philips 47" LCD, bought Nov 07 $2999.00 now less than $2000.00

And so I can go on and on.....

It will be very interesting to re-visit this thread in 6 months time.

Where can you get a Philips 47" LCD for less than $2000?

Edited by ageha
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Owen I am aware of couple people who have picked up the Audi S3 Limited edition, which is RRP On the roda 85to87K, they have had it brand new for $65k on the road.

The price you negotiate with a dealer on a particular model can vary quite a bit from list for a variety of reasons, but overall the price of luxury vehicles has not gone down over the last five years, if anything new models tend to cost more then the models they replaced, at least that’s is the case with the vehicles that interest me.

I test drove an LS460 Lexus recently; the RRP has gone up about $25k over the previous LS430 to $196k plus on road. The competing Benz S500 has gone up about $30k to $270k plus on road. Now I know for sure I could get a significant discount, but no way the price will be what it was 2 years ago. The price was negotiable back then as well.

It is a buyers market. All the price raising is a scare tactic, I fully agree with Jimval. Sure RRP prices of TVs will go high, but the buy out price after a few monts will be cheap as is now, the fact that Pio is using Pana screens soon (one initiative) should help the cost cutting to keep the street prices down. You just have to look at the economy and where it is heading. High end products dont necessarily have to cost more, eg your Sony 70inch. does a brilliant job and could have been bought for less then $5k. I should have bought one, did initiallt buy the 60inch but the deal fell through later on.

Prices of old models always get discounted toward the end of model life, but prices will rise before any fall for existing models. If you can wait 6 to 12 months I have no doubt you can match or possibly better todays prices, but if you need to buy before then now would be the best time for most models.

Edited by Owen
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Why will it be 40% cheaper in six months time?

Your logic escapes me?

It would be nice if I could predict the next Melbourne cup winner too but I am just trying to make a point.

Obviously I don't know exactly by how much it will go down and when, it could even be more and/or it might take a little longer, who really knows with uncertain times ahead,

but history suggests:

Pioneer PDP-LX508A

RRP: $7999, Street price for old stock: $3800

Price drop: 52%

Pioneer PDP-LX608A

RRP: $11999, DigitalCentre price: $6499

Price drop: 46%

(RRP Source: CNET.com.au)

After studying many reviews and reading this excellent forum I went out cash in hand.

After tyre kicking flat panels for a couple of weeks now, I am disappointed by the in-store noisy/dull and cartoon/computer game like pictures of Plasmas and

LCDs respectively. I agree with Owen in relation to the availability of a high end product.

The excuses given is that these are torched up and/or set in dynamic mode in-store.

I understand, but does it have to be EVERY flat panel in EVERY store.

Surely if the units are set up properly for the lighting conditions (maybe just turn the lights off for Plasma) they will get the best picture and thus the best chance of a sale.

I asked a sales rep in a Bing Lee store just yesterday to switch over to a Blu-Ray source instead of Ch.9 HD to compare a Samsung 950 next to the new Sony XBR45,

but all I got from the rep was "Sorry, I can't, that's how they're set-up".

Unbelievable.

At the moment, I'm pretty confident I can plonk my 8 year old 80cm 100Hz Sony CRT (their best CRT and $4.5K back then) with no adjustments against any of these sets and it will absolutely lap them in terms

of a TV's most important attribute, PICTURE QUALITY.

I thought I would walk into a store, look at a flat panel and say:

"Brilliant... I just gotta have it... here's the money... how long before I get it...".

Unfortunately not at the current quality and price.

Signed,

Very Disullusioned.

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It would be nice if I could predict the next Melbourne cup winner too but I am just trying to make a point.

Obviously I don't know exactly by how much it will go down and when, it could even be more and/or it might take a little longer, who really knows with uncertain times ahead,

but history suggests:

Pioneer PDP-LX508A

RRP: $7999, Street price for old stock: $3800

Price drop: 52%

Pioneer PDP-LX608A

RRP: $11999, DigitalCentre price: $6499

Price drop: 46%

(RRP Source: CNET.com.au)

After studying many reviews and reading this excellent forum I went out cash in hand.

After tyre kicking flat panels for a couple of weeks now, I am disappointed by the in-store noisy/dull and cartoon/computer game like pictures of Plasmas and

LCDs respectively. I agree with Owen in relation to the availability of a high end product.

The excuses given is that these are torched up and/or set in dynamic mode in-store.

I understand, but does it have to be EVERY flat panel in EVERY store.

Surely if the units are set up properly for the lighting conditions (maybe just turn the lights off for Plasma) they will get the best picture and thus the best chance of a sale.

I asked a sales rep in a Bing Lee store just yesterday to switch over to a Blu-Ray source instead of Ch.9 HD to compare a Samsung 950 next to the new Sony XBR45,

but all I got from the rep was "Sorry, I can't, that's how they're set-up".

Unbelievable.

At the moment, I'm pretty confident I can plonk my 8 year old 80cm 100Hz Sony CRT (their best CRT and $4.5K back then) with no adjustments against any of these sets and it will absolutely lap them in terms

of a TV's most important attribute, PICTURE QUALITY.

I thought I would walk into a store, look at a flat panel and say:

"Brilliant... I just gotta have it... here's the money... how long before I get it...".

Unfortunately not at the current quality and price.

Signed,

Very Disullusioned.

And there in lies one of the problems of the home theatre/electronics industry! We've all benefited from the lower margin, category killer stores' low prices but they just don't give and probably can't give the service that the specialists do (DID?). What makes it tough is when you visit a specialist, the sales person gives you good advice, has the TV/System/Whatever set up right and able to compare with a couple alternates. Often they will match or come close to the prices of the box movers... but they can't go on forever without a decent profit. They certainly can't keep paying better wages to skilled and knowledgable staff who want to work in a business they have a passion for, but can no longer get a decent salary. More often the customer without a moment's thought wheels around now armed with knowledge and goes to the nearest Bing Lee/JB/CP/Discount Store and buys at the lowest price thus doing the specialist out of the deal.

And I am not helping either. I have come to rely on the net for reviews and forums for owner's experiences to help me choose my purchases. And then go off and seek the best price I can from whoever will drop their draws and give me the goods for nothing... At least so far I've found that the advice you get on these forums are usually valuable and genuine so I am unlikely to buy a dud.

I would hate to work in this industry! It must give the specialists the sh1ts seeing what's happening to their businesses.

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I was just thinking more about the earlier comments by Owen and jimval about the lack of high-end product. It probably is out there in the "real" specialist stores or can be ordered in. I am assuming that you both might be referring to general availability.

I sell a range of quality products and without going into detail, we select our retailers carefully, choosing those we feel will have the expertise and willingness to advise customers carefully and ensure they purchase the most appropriate items from our range to suit there needs. We tend to avoid heavy discounters because in the end everyone's margins are eroded by these guys and there is less reason to sell them.

So, based on that, I assume that the high-end HT suppliers realise this and refuse to sell through the discount outlets or have their products bastardised thus losing perceived value and thus becoming just another brand. It appears that Pioneer struggles with this from time to time... having seen them come and go from JB's a couple times. If you want to be a volume seller you need to have low prices and sell everywhere. But ultimately you will make little or no money from that.

The smart low-volume high-end guys are probably doing quite nicely profit wise, and best staying out of the discount stores. Only risk is will the specialists survive and without them will the high-end guys go too, at least in Australia.

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After studying many reviews and reading this excellent forum I went out cash in hand.

After tyre kicking flat panels for a couple of weeks now, I am disappointed by the in-store noisy/dull and cartoon/computer game like pictures of Plasmas and

LCDs respectively. I agree with Owen in relation to the availability of a high end product.

The excuses given is that these are torched up and/or set in dynamic mode in-store.

I understand, but does it have to be EVERY flat panel in EVERY store.

Surely if the units are set up properly for the lighting conditions (maybe just turn the lights off for Plasma) they will get the best picture and thus the best chance of a sale.

I asked a sales rep in a Bing Lee store just yesterday to switch over to a Blu-Ray source instead of Ch.9 HD to compare a Samsung 950 next to the new Sony XBR45,

but all I got from the rep was "Sorry, I can't, that's how they're set-up".

Unbelievable.

I had a similar experience last week, when I was looking for a HTIB solution. Myer had a Yamaha model on display, with only the internal FM tuner available. Am I supposed to believe that a radio broadcast is good enough for me to understand its true capabilities ? JB was no better - nobody could be bothered to talk to me, leave alone switch on the HT. Sony Centre hadn't even plugged in two of the 5 speakers.

Sure, I got better service at a specialist dealer but his prices were so high that I had no choice but to see the equipment there and would have to buy it from elsewhere. We need some sort of balance between the box movers and specialists.

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Pioneer PDP-LX508A

RRP: $7999, Street price for old stock: $3800

Price drop: 52%

Pioneer PDP-LX608A

RRP: $11999, DigitalCentre price: $6499

Price drop: 46%

(RRP Source: CNET.com.au)

I don't think that it's valid to compare the price that the 508 and 608

currently sell for. They are both superceded models, (replaced with

the 509 and 609 series) and have been in the market for at least 18 months.

You'll always get a better deal on a superceded model. Done it myself.

We're talking about a current model 609 series dropping 40% in 6 months.

Also, you cannot place much store in Pioneer's RRP. They're a load of crap.

You can always get a much better deal on day one. As evidenced by my purchase

of a 600M (Pioner's RRP $12,999.00 NZD) for $9000.00. That's a 30% price drop

right there!

So really, when you're talking about price reductions you have to quote 'real world'

figures. That is - what you actually have to pay for it.

I think, also, that what tends to hold up the prices for Pioneer panels is that they

don't seem to import huge quantities or flood the market like Samsung or Pioneer.

As evidenced by how hard it is now to locate an 08 floor model.

Sorry that you're disillusioned with flat panels. Give a high quality, high

definition, signal and when well set up they can display a stunning picture.

SD DVD and off the air normal TV transmission can look crappy if not

properly calibrated.

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The excuses given is that these are torched up and/or set in dynamic mode in-store.

I understand, but does it have to be EVERY flat panel in EVERY store.

Surely if the units are set up properly for the lighting conditions (maybe just turn the lights off for Plasma) they will get the best picture and thus the best chance of a sale.

I asked a sales rep in a Bing Lee store just yesterday to switch over to a Blu-Ray source instead of Ch.9 HD to compare a Samsung 950 next to the new Sony XBR45,

but all I got from the rep was "Sorry, I can't, that's how they're set-up".

Unbelievable.

At the moment, I'm pretty confident I can plonk my 8 year old 80cm 100Hz Sony CRT (their best CRT and $4.5K back then) with no adjustments against any of these sets and it will absolutely lap them in terms

of a TV's most important attribute, PICTURE QUALITY.

I thought I would walk into a store, look at a flat panel and say:

"Brilliant... I just gotta have it... here's the money... how long before I get it...".

Unfortunately not at the current quality and price.

Signed,

Very Disullusioned.

Try viewing your 80cm Sony from 1.5 meters (less for wide screen content) and tell me how great it looks, even the high end HD Sony CRT’s are looking a bid shabby up that close, but that’s the sort of distance you need to view from to really judge quality on a screen that small. On a size corrected basis a good Plasma is way better then an 80cm 4:3 Sony CRT and better then the high end HD wide screen Sony CRT’s as well, IMHO.

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I was just thinking more about the earlier comments by Owen and jimval about the lack of high-end product. It probably is out there in the "real" specialist stores or can be ordered in. I am assuming that you both might be referring to general availability.

I sell a range of quality products and without going into detail, we select our retailers carefully, choosing those we feel will have the expertise and willingness to advise customers carefully and ensure they purchase the most appropriate items from our range to suit there needs. We tend to avoid heavy discounters because in the end everyone's margins are eroded by these guys and there is less reason to sell them.

So, based on that, I assume that the high-end HT suppliers realise this and refuse to sell through the discount outlets or have their products bastardised thus losing perceived value and thus becoming just another brand. It appears that Pioneer struggles with this from time to time... having seen them come and go from JB's a couple times. If you want to be a volume seller you need to have low prices and sell everywhere. But ultimately you will make little or no money from that.

The smart low-volume high-end guys are probably doing quite nicely profit wise, and best staying out of the discount stores. Only risk is will the specialists survive and without them will the high-end guys go too, at least in Australia.

I agree with your comments and sentiment, with the exception of the availability of “high end” product, at least as far as displays go. I am not aware of any display in the 70” plus category that meets my quality requirements regardless of price.

Unless something comes out of left field unannounced the most likely contender will come in 12-18 months time from Pioneer in the form of an 80-85” NEO PDP. I hope they can address the dither/PWM noise in Plasma by then and blacks had better be really black, not just a darker shade of grey.

If you have knowledge of such a product please share, by PM if you cant post the info publicly.

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Try viewing your 80cm Sony from 1.5 meters (less for wide screen content) and tell me how great it looks, even the high end HD Sony CRT’s are looking a bid shabby up that close, but that’s the sort of distance you need to view from to really judge quality on a screen that small. On a size corrected basis a good Plasma is way better then an 80cm 4:3 Sony CRT and better then the high end HD wide screen Sony CRT’s as well, IMHO.

I did as you suggested (i.e. 80cm at 1.5m) and I was really hoping you would be right, but my eyes are telling me otherwise.

I.e. the plasmas I have seen thus far just have too much noise for my liking. I'm sure if it was completely removed I would most likely change my opinion.

Is it because I'm accustomed to a CRT picture?

Is a plasma picture something you get used to over time?

Is it because the plasmas are always in a dynamic mode setting in the store?

I'm not sure, but my eyes are telling me my CRT picture looks cleaner, more natural.

Edited by jimval
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I did as you suggested (i.e. 80cm at 1.5m) and I was really hoping you would be right, but my eyes are telling me otherwise.

I.e. the plasmas I have seen thus far just have too much noise for my liking. I'm sure if it was completely removed I would most likely change my opinion.

Is it because I'm accustomed to a CRT picture?

Is a plasma picture something you get used to over time?

Is it because the plasmas are always in a dynamic mode setting in the store?

I'm not sure, but my eyes are telling me my CRT picture looks cleaner, more natural.

I also think crt was great back then , I presume we are talking about the 100kg 4:3 DRC models.

Although not HD still has a great picture but just not big enough for people today.

Imagine if someone said an 81 or 94cm lcd was $4000 now.

You just have to be the right distance away and most people probably go too big.

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It amazes me how people still think these price rises are scare tactics. I had a Sony rep come into my store two weeks ago and announce that in January Sony will be raising the price of their products by 10% and then in February the Bravia range will go up by another 10%. So in total a 20% price increase on the TV range. So if the go price on a 46Z series is $3700 for example than you can add another 20% to make it $4440 after February.

If anyone thinks retailers are rubbing their hands together thinking the price rises will get more money in their pockets than think again. Anyone who thinks business will increase when the prices of your products go up is seriously deluded. A price rise makes my job harder to sell because the same product I was selling not long ago is now more expensive.

One thing to consider is that the amount that TV's have dropped even in the past 2 years has been significant. A 42" HD LCD cost roughly $2999 2 years ago and now the same thing is roughly $1200 to $1400 for a name brand. So in 2 years the price of a 42" HD LCD has dropped by nearly 60%. You now get a 42" Full HD LCD for anwhere between $1500 to $2500 depending on the brand. So a price rise of even 20% now isn't as bad as everyones making out. Hopefully the prices will drop again in the second half of the year.

But seriously this isn't scare tactics, it's for real so you'll just have to deal with it for now.

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At the moment, I'm pretty confident I can plonk my 8 year old 80cm 100Hz Sony CRT (their best CRT and $4.5K back then) with no adjustments against any of these sets and it will absolutely lap them in terms

of a TV's most important attribute, PICTURE QUALITY.

I will happily put my 32" (82 cm) Sony Wega back up against the Pioneer 50" kuro I just bought if you want to compare?

I can tell you now the Pioneer is much clearer at almost twice the size.

Yes SD content looks similar, but we are talking an image almost double in size.

I too was a skeptic until I saw the Pioneer set.

The jpeg like pixelation and motion blur that most of the plasma/LCD's show is enough to turn any CRT owner off upgrading for life.

I even got to experience a Sony KDL40XBR (my second choice) for a few hours the other day and im very very glad I didn't have to get one. (being a sony fan I was very disappointed)

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I did as you suggested (i.e. 80cm at 1.5m) and I was really hoping you would be right, but my eyes are telling me otherwise.

I have no idea how good your eyes are, but I can clearly see the pixel structure on an 80cm CRT at 1.5 meters, as well as scan lines, convergence errors and ringing, not a good look at all IMHO.

I still have an 86cm wide screen HD CRT in daily use (Rank with Toshiba tube) and I can see the pixels structure on it at 2 meters, which is the normal viewing distance for that set, even though the HD CRT’s have a much finer pixel structure then the big SD sets like the 80cm Sony. The only CRT TV with a finer pixel structure is the top range fine pitch HD Sony sets and they had visible defects at 2 meters or less as well.

I recently replaced my old mans 43cm CRT with a Panasonic 42PX8a Plasma (768p), it is viewed from a little over 2.5 meters and the picture is very good, I would take it over my 86cm HD CRT or any 80cm SD CRT without hesitation.

I.e. the plasmas I have seen thus far just have too much noise for my liking. I'm sure if it was completely removed I would most likely change my opinion.

Is it because I'm accustomed to a CRT picture?

Is a plasma picture something you get used to over time?

Is it because the plasmas are always in a dynamic mode setting in the store?

I'm not sure, but my eyes are telling me my CRT picture looks cleaner, more natural.

Not sure about the 80cm Sony, but most SD CRT TV’s are full analogue (unlike HD CRT sets) and thus add no digital artifacts of their own to the image, this and the fact that the electron beams in your old CRT tube will have lost focus with age (it was never very sharp to begin with) can explain the low noise look you see on it.

Flat panel TV’s are inherently sharp and almost always have sharpness turned up to high by default, they also employ other “picture enhancement” systems that can make the image look harsh noisy and digital. Samsung sets are particularly affected by this but it can generally be fixed or at least improved with proper settings.

Plasma’s use pulse width modulation to control their pixels, this can result in some visible noise in dark shadow areas. It’s not ideal but is generally not a significant problem on the better models. I doubt this is the problem you are seeing.

Unfortunately the technology that produced the least digital looking, cleanest, most noise and artifact free images is no longer available, and it was not CRT.

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I also think crt was great back then , I presume we are talking about the 100kg 4:3 DRC models.

Although not HD still has a great picture but just not big enough for people today.

Imagine if someone said an 81 or 94cm lcd was $4000 now.

You just have to be the right distance away and most people probably go too big.

Correct. It is the 80cm 4:3 DRC model.

Sony KVES34M31

The thing would likely survive a tomahawk in an Iraqi bunker.

http://www.sony.com.au/catalog/product.jsp?id=KVES34M31

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