Pioneer 9th Gen Panels Discussion

[Mr_Independent]

No, no, no -- Panasonic will never ever in the whole future of technology make a panel that's as good as the Pioneer G9, which will forever remain the pinnacle of the flatscreen art, the last good panel ever made.

Also, the worst, cheapest, most busted-arse piece of technology made in Japan will always be better than anything the rest of the world can come up with.

How do you figure this out?

What do you base this on?

IMO the current model Panasonics are a better panel than the Pioneers, also being that the G9's are not even released yet so how good they are remains to be seen.

Pioneers are over priced and over hyped as far as I am concerned and are far from being the last great panel ever made.

That is highly debatable unless you are talking about mass market local discount store brands only, some of the products being made in China and Malaysia recently have been in some cases better than the Japanese ones.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Mr_Independent

[fawlty99]

No, no, no -- Panasonic will never ever in the whole future of technology make a panel that's as good as the Pioneer G9, which will forever remain the pinnacle of the flatscreen art, the last good panel ever made.

Also, the worst, cheapest, most busted-arse piece of technology made in Japan will always be better than anything the rest of the world can come up with.

That's sarcasm - yes?

[mwd]

And Fujitsu just import Aircons advertised by retired cricketers these days.

Philips thrown in the towel here too unless you are after a razor.

As for Chinese you get what you pay for $9.99 a day or less.

You can get a Chinese Oil Rig for US$ 6000.00 per day including a crew.

Edited November 1, 2008 by mwd

[petetherock]

Lets ignore the trolls and keep this focussed on the new Pioneers. I reckon they will represent the pinnacle of plasmas for a while to come. Once value for money comes in with Panny OEM panels, we will get good but not great panels which will be much cheaper of course.

Oh, whoever said 9 G panels are not released??? What do you call the panels released in Singapore, UK, USA?

Edited November 1, 2008 by petetherock

[Owen]

There seems to be a misunderstanding, the G10 panels are Pioneer technology manufactured by Panasonic under a joint venture, they will be a significant step forward for Plasma. Pioneer have already demoed such technology and it is a significant improvement over G9, brighter, more power efficient, slimmer and with absolute blacks.

If you think G9 is the be all and end all of Plasma you will be in for some disappointment. Both G8 and G9 panels have significant limitations which will hopefully be addressed with G10.

The G10 Pioneer and possibly Panasonics version will be the first Plasmas to get my attention, G8 and G9 don’t cut it. I just hope they release the rumoured 80”- 85” model.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Owen

[Mr_Independent]

And Fujitsu just import Aircons advertised by retired cricketers these days.

Philips thrown in the towel here too unless you are after a razor.

As for Chinese you get what you pay for $9.99 a day or less.

You can get a Chinese Oil Rig for US$ 6000.00 per day including a crew.

...and what a great Air-Con they are too, along with their great panels...

But what has Fujitsu panels or Fujitsu air conditioners got to do with the topic at hand?

FWIW though, the Philips panel was another panel IMO better than the Pioneer (their razors/shavers are also rather good )

Next time I want to hire some labour or invest in an Oil rig I will refer to your post

[Mr_Independent]

Lets ignore the trolls and keep this focussed on the new Pioneers. I reckon they will represent the pinnacle of plasmas for a while to come. Once value for money comes in with Panny OEM panels, we will get good but not great panels which will be much cheaper of course.

Oh, whoever said 9 G panels are not released??? What do you call the panels released in Singapore, UK, USA?

They are not released in Australia yet.

Until they are, how good they are is all speculation.

[petetherock]

They are not speculation, if you read my posts, I have Seen them in action.

They are much better than the competition, and the 8 G panels.

They are not released in Australia yet.

Until they are, how good they are is all speculation.

[Mr_Independent]

They are not speculation, if you read my posts, I have Seen them in action.

They are much better than the competition, and the 8 G panels.

Much better than the competition according to "you"...

Are you speaking for the rest of the country, or aren't they allowed their own opinion?

I have yet to see a Pioneer that I would purchase and that I would consider better that the brands I mentioned and furthermore I have never liked the Pioneers picture on any model they have released.

If you are happy to purchase one I am happy for you and happy viewing to you.

[peterjcat]

That's sarcasm - yes?

Sorry everyone, yes that was 100% sarcasm. Not trolling, just a comment on some pretty common attitudes you read around here, like "I'd rather have a G9 Pio than a G10 because it's a REAL Pio" and "I'd rather have an old Pana than a new one because some of the new ones are made in China".

I don't share either of these positions.

(I have a new made-in-China Pana which I like slightly more than my last-gen made-in-Japan Pio).

Of course panels will continue to get better. I think the consequence of the Pio/Pana deal isn't that Pios won't be as good but that the gap between Pio and everyone else will shrink. We're already seeing this happening of course and the manufacturing JV will inevitably have a positive impact on the Pana range.

[Mr_Independent]

Sorry everyone, yes that was 100% sarcasm. Not trolling, just a comment on some pretty common attitudes you read around here, like "I'd rather have a G9 Pio than a G10 because it's a REAL Pio" and "I'd rather have an old Pana than a new one because some of the new ones are made in China".

I don't share either of these positions.

(I have a new made-in-China Pana which I like slightly more than my last-gen made-in-Japan Pio).

Of course panels will continue to get better. I think the consequence of the Pio/Pana deal isn't that Pios won't be as good but that the gap between Pio and everyone else will shrink. We're already seeing this happening of course and the manufacturing JV will inevitably have a positive impact on the Pana range.

No need to apoligize, I agree with your posts (and your sarcasm ) and your input is just as valid as anyone elses on here.

Probably more factual than most actually...

[petetherock]

Please... go to your Panasonic, Fujitsu or whatever brands you prefer, this thread is meant to discuss Pioneers, and those who are waiting for it to arrive on Oz shores.

I am sure you can continue bashing Pioneers somewhere else.

[peterjcat]

Please... go to your Panasonic, Fujitsu or whatever brands you prefer, this thread is meant to discuss Pioneers, and those who are waiting for it to arrive on Oz shores.

I am sure you can continue bashing Pioneers somewhere else.

I'm only talking about Panasonic in the context of Pioneer, it's difficult to discuss Pioneer without reference to Panasonic given the joint venture that is about to start producing panels. I am very interested in the 9G Pios when they arrive and even more interested in the 10Gs.

[Guest David Tran]

It does not matter how good a plasma is, burn in is still a big issue for me. Plasma panels need constant attention and caring otherwise you'll get "burn in" issue. When will this so called "burn in" be elminated from plasma panels.

David

[Drizt]

There seems to be a misunderstanding, the G10 panels are Pioneer technology manufactured by Panasonic under a joint venture, they will be a significant step forward for Plasma. Pioneer have already demoed such technology and it is a significant improvement over G9, brighter, more power efficient, slimmer and with absolute blacks.

If you think G9 is the be all and end all of Plasma you will be in for some disappointment. Both G8 and G9 panels have significant limitations which will hopefully be addressed with G10.

The G10 Pioneer and possibly Panasonics version will be the first Plasmas to get my attention, G8 and G9 don't cut it. I just hope they release the rumoured 80"- 85" model.

Owen, just a quick question in the hope that you might know the answer. My wife and I may have stupidly sensitive eyes but we see a rainbow like effect in plasmas in some scenes, flashes of yellow, green and tinges of red. I did some research and found that its phosphor lag. I know that plasma's are very different to CRT's but I don't see any such effect with CRT's. My main question is - will I see this with every plasma? Will some be better than others? The Pioneer G8 Kuro's have horrible motion / judder to me, and for me easy to see phosphor lag. Will the G9 or G10's be any different with regards to the phosphor lag?

[Kylesector]

I've had the G9 Pioneer for 4 weeks now and its just getting better and better everytime I watch it.

Still to early to do an ISF calibration so I'm just running it in Pure mode.

Initially I thought the 60" was just huge when I unpacked it but its turned out to be perfect size from 2.5m veiwing distance.

[Owen]

Owen, just a quick question in the hope that you might know the answer. My wife and I may have stupidly sensitive eyes but we see a rainbow like effect in plasmas in some scenes, flashes of yellow, green and tinges of red. I did some research and found that its phosphor lag. I know that plasma's are very different to CRT's but I don't see any such effect with CRT's. My main question is - will I see this with every plasma? Will some be better than others? The Pioneer G8 Kuro's have horrible motion / judder to me, and for me easy to see phosphor lag. Will the G9 or G10's be any different with regards to the phosphor lag?

CRT uses a line scanning system that “refreshes” the Red, Green and Blue sub pixels simultaneously, where as with Plasma the Red, Green and Blue sub pixels may be refreshed sequentially, resulting in susceptible people seeing rainbows or RBE. Manufacturers don’t say how their panels work so they may not all be the same now or in the future.

Single chip DLP projectors also display colours sequentially so if you see rainbows on them (as some people do) it’s a reasonable bet that’s the problem.

Phosphor lag is a different issue, Red, Green and Blue phosphors have different persistence or decay time, with blue being very fast and red the slowest. This used to cause very noticeable problems in older Plasma’s but not so much now as faster phosphors are used together with faster refresh cycles. The colours still have different decay rates so some people may be able to see it on some fast moving content.

CRT had the same problem with different decay rates for each colour but know one seemed to notice any ill effects, for that reason its more likely a sequential colour problem.

It’s quite likely different models will behave differentially, how your eyes will respond to G9 or G10 panels is anyone’s guess.

[Owen]

I've had the G9 Pioneer for 4 weeks now and its just getting better and better everytime I watch it.

Still to early to do an ISF calibration so I'm just running it in Pure mode.

Initially I thought the 60" was just huge when I unpacked it but its turned out to be perfect size from 2.5m veiwing distance.

Yes, 60” is a good size for 2.5 meters, but for those of us that sit further back a larger screen is required. Where is the 80” Pioneer?

[fawlty99]

It does not matter how good a plasma is, burn in is still a big issue for me. Plasma panels need constant attention and caring otherwise you'll get "burn in" issue. When will this so called "burn in" be elminated from plasma panels.

David

Not the case with new screens. I've used my plasma without any attention to avoiding burn-in & I've had no problems. Probably only a concern now for gamers who might have static areas on the screen for hours on end.

[Drizt]

CRT uses a line scanning system that "refreshes" the Red, Green and Blue sub pixels simultaneously, where as with Plasma the Red, Green and Blue sub pixels may be refreshed sequentially, resulting in susceptible people seeing rainbows or RBE. Manufacturers don't say how their panels work so they may not all be the same now or in the future.

Single chip DLP projectors also display colours sequentially so if you see rainbows on them (as some people do) it's a reasonable bet that's the problem.

Phosphor lag is a different issue, Red, Green and Blue phosphors have different persistence or decay time, with blue being very fast and red the slowest. This used to cause very noticeable problems in older Plasma's but not so much now as faster phosphors are used together with faster refresh cycles. The colours still have different decay rates so some people may be able to see it on some fast moving content.

CRT had the same problem with different decay rates for each colour but know one seemed to notice any ill effects, for that reason its more likely a sequential colour problem.

It's quite likely different models will behave differentially, how your eyes will respond to G9 or G10 panels is anyone's guess.

Cheers. Bugger. Doesn't leave me with many options in my price range at the moment.

[Owen]

It does not matter how good a plasma is, burn in is still a big issue for me. Plasma panels need constant attention and caring otherwise you'll get "burn in" issue. When will this so called "burn in" be elminated from plasma panels.

David

I used triple gun CRT projection displays with a HTPC daily for years without problems and they are more susceptible to burn in then any Plasma. I was careful and used a screen saver.

If you are not prepared to make any effort to be at least sensible in the way the TV is used and must have a glaringly bright display Plasma is not for you. The alternative is an LCD that will look less then best its entire life.

[rcw]

The PDPLX609A is on the Pioneer oz website:

http://www.pioneer.com.au/Products/Home%20...%20Screens.aspx

Hoped it might be cheaper

No 509 there yet....

[hobey123]

It will be hard to sell many at that price, especially considering the current economic situation. I can see them dropping relatively quickly...

[THX1979]

like a lead zeppelin, which is good news for us

[laurie]

$1000 difference between 8th Gen & 9th Gen for 85% better specs!

cheers laurie