Latest Offering From Philips?

[automan]

When I first came across one on the shop floor, I was very impressed with the PQ (and the specs). But then, looking closer into it, I started to notice the disappointing black levels and poor viewing angles. You're pretty much restricted to a straight-on viewing sweet spot.

It may have the best picture/motion processing but...there seems to be way too much backlight bleeding across the whole panel. These were based set on default settings with no tweaking. I've asked a knowledgable HN guy (who I've dealt with many times in the past) and was told not much you can adjust, this has always been a problem with Philips panels compared to other brands.

I was dead-set keen on getting one if it weren't for these 2 issues, everything else seems perfect...

How have you found the black levels and viewing angles? Your input would be much appreciated.

I disagree.

I had a good look at the Philips which was sitting directly next to The Sony X series and noticed that the Sony had a fair bit of back light bleeding and the Philips none.

Maybe the back light bleeding is not the same from ione model to another but this philips definately had none and the black levels were more true on the Philips.

[Owen]

If the “Ambilight” was on it would hide the black level imperfections, that’s what it is designed to do.

I don’t think Philips make LCD panels, they just buy from other manufactures, so panel performance will be the same as other displays using the same panel.

[myrantz]

If the “Ambilight” was on it would hide the black level imperfections, that’s what it is designed to do.

I don’t think Philips make LCD panels, they just buy from other manufactures, so panel performance will be the same as other displays using the same panel.

Depends on how u look at it.. LG & Phillips co-own the plants... Phillips want to divest a few years back, but seems like they are still together.

[roninrr]

Just got the 9703 today.

As far as I can see or to my tired old eyes, fantastic PQ.

One minor issue, using HDMI in from my PVR, I found there was an audio delay.

I had my audio going to a receiver direct from the PVR, with the sound on the screen turned down.

Changed it to use the coax audio out from the screen instead. Now its all good.

Lots more playing to come.

Anyone used the Lan connect yet?

Well done Grampus. Your HN price for the 42pfl7903 is about right ($2700 from Preston 3 weeks ago + $48 delivery) for a set with a RRP of $3299.

LAN connection is really great with only limitation being the formats accepted by the Philips (mpeg1 or 2, mp3 and jpeg) but then the Beyonwiz can be used for other file (particularly movie) types.

Big advantage of Philips LAN is for jpegs which are instantaneous (compared to the Beyonwiz with its interminable hour glass between slides) so that slideshows are great - can even play music in background through LAN while watching slide show, all set up & run from the couch using the Philips remote.

I have mine connected to a network of Macs through a Linksys router - the suggested media server software (Twonky Media) was quickly dropped in favour of EyeConnect from Elgato. No need for AppleTV or separate media server box at the TV.

Another standout is the quality of free to air broadcasts, even on non-HD digital channels - best I've ever seen - and it is used as a TV set first & foremost.

Upscaling of ordinary dvd's from a Philips 3980 DVD player ($83!) is also excellent. DVD player is HDMI & DivX compatible.

[fred2]

After haggling at HN, was offered a 47 9703 for $3450 (which seems not too bad) with an extended 2 year warranty on top of the manufacturer's 3 years for $300 (which seems high).

Anyone else have figures for 47 9703 or thoughts on these figures?

[Gazman1973]

I don't think thats too bad Fred. They're RRP is approx $3,800 isnt it? Thats a fair discount already for new floor stock.

[fred2]

I don't think thats too bad Fred. They're RRP is approx $3,800 isnt it? Thats a fair discount already for new floor stock.

The TV price seems to be not as good as the $2750 that Grampus got for a 42, which is $3300 RRP ($550 off) and $150 pa for extended warranty seems steep.

[Gazman1973]

I'm not sure the 42 is $3,300 RRP? I saw it at Hardly Normals weeks ago with a sticker price of $2,999 so a discount to $2,750 for a seemingly new Tele seemed a good buy in my mind for Grampus'. From 2999 to 2750 for Grampus and 3450 from 3800 for yours I think you've gotten the better deal if you want to look at it that way but I don;t think you can compare the 2 discounts that way due to other cost factors involved.

[ozxplorer]

Maybe the back light bleeding is not the same from ione model to another but this philips definately had none and the black levels were more true on the Philips.

I've auditioned the latest (without ambilight) models 42 and 47 (in 2 stores) but they both exhibit the same black levels and poor viewing angles (light bleed when viewed from side-on to panel) problem.

As mentioned before I was very close to getting one given the amazing PQ (FTA and Blueray) but I'm quite surprised current owners seem (choose?) to look past this issue since every salesman I've spoken with agrees this being the case with Philips (LG or othewise) panels despite everything else being excellent.

Would appreciate comments regarding this issue from current owners, thanks.

[Gazman1973]

G'day Oz,

I've had my 47 for 2 weeks now and sit front and side and havent noticed this bleeding. After your comments the other day, I went home and specifically tried to find what you're meaning but can't seem to see any problems with the picture? What exactly are you meaning and what should I be seeing if sitting on the angle?

[fred2]

I'm not sure the 42 is $3,300 RRP? I saw it at Hardly Normals weeks ago with a sticker price of $2,999 so a discount to $2,750 for a seemingly new Tele seemed a good buy in my mind for Grampus'. From 2999 to 2750 for Grampus and 3450 from 3800 for yours I think you've gotten the better deal if you want to look at it that way but I don;t think you can compare the 2 discounts that way due to other cost factors involved.

The following is on Phillips website-

"Suggested Retail Prices:

42PFL9703D: $3,299.00 inc. GST

Available: August 2008

47PFL9703D: $3,999.00 inc. GST

Available: August 2008

52PFL9703D: $5,299.00 inc. GST"

However this notice was dated 1 July and the RRP of the 47 seems to have dropped to $3799 now. It may be that the 42 has dropped also, which would make its gap only $350, which is the same as the gap etween $3450 and $3800.

Does anyone know what the current RRPs are?

I did see the wholesale price on the shop computer for the 47 as $2720 (or possibly $2750, I am not sure now) so there is still plenty of profit.

Do you mind saying what you paid for your 47?

Edited August 8, 2008 by fred2

[ozxplorer]

What exactly are you meaning and what should I be seeing if sitting on the angle?

Gazman1973, thanks for your feedback. I'm not quite sure if sitting on an angle would reveal the issue I've tried to describe.

At the shop floor, what I've done is basically look at the panel front-on from standing position then lower myself to roughly sitting position, shift from centre moving from left to right and observing changes in PQ, black levels and viewing angles.

It's when viewed from side-on (left or right) that seems to be the problem. Black level issue is prominent with black bars on widescreen material while light bleed is very noticeable when viewed standing next to and looking side-on across the (width) of panel. You just see this bright light across whole panel giving a greyish tinge to the whole picture.

These were units displayed on default settings. Tried adjusting brightness but didn't seem to help much.

Of course you could argue that no one looks at TV from that angle but the fact remains this same exercise on other panels did not exhibit these problems. It's rather hard to describe but hope it gives you some idea on how I've discovered these issues.

[roninrr]

I've auditioned the latest (without ambilight) models 42 and 47 (in 2 stores) but they both exhibit the same black levels and poor viewing angles (light bleed when viewed from side-on to panel) problem.

As mentioned before I was very close to getting one given the amazing PQ (FTA and Blueray) but I'm quite surprised current owners seem (choose?) to look past this issue since every salesman I've spoken with agrees this being the case with Philips (LG or othewise) panels despite everything else being excellent.

Would appreciate comments regarding this issue from current owners, thanks.

ozxplorer

Why would you sit side on to the panel? Like all LCD's, the Philips loses some colour when viewed at an angle of more than 60 degrees with blacks particularly becoming greyish.

From 3 weeks of viewing from a front on position (an arc of plus or minus 30 degrees I see almost no variation in the colours and the blacks are a huge improvement over earlier Philips' models.

The Philips shows no sign of any light bleeding when the panel is predominantly black. This seems very different from Samsung and Sony units with owners on this forum expressing concern about the extent of 'clouding' or light bleed from those panels with posted pictures showing much lighter areas in the top corners.

Re your concern about not being able to adjust the Philips, read the review at 'trustedreviews.com' where the reviewer suggests there is too many options to fiddle with.

Please don't buy a Philips because I'm sure we will never hear the end of it.

[Mill]

Do these things have a HD tuner. It is hard to find this out from the promotional material. I understand that in Europe the D on the end of the model number stands for "digital" tuner and a H stands for "High Definition" tuner.

Only the D model has arived in Australia I think?

[pistolpoida]

ozxplorer

Why would you sit side on to the panel? Like all LCD's, the Philips loses some colour when viewed at an angle of more than 60 degrees with blacks particularly becoming greyish.

From 3 weeks of viewing from a front on position (an arc of plus or minus 30 degrees I see almost no variation in the colours and the blacks are a huge improvement over earlier Philips' models.

The Philips shows no sign of any light bleeding when the panel is predominantly black. This seems very different from Samsung and Sony units with owners on this forum expressing concern about the extent of 'clouding' or light bleed from those panels with posted pictures showing much lighter areas in the top corners.

Re your concern about not being able to adjust the Philips, read the review at 'trustedreviews.com' where the reviewer suggests there is too many options to fiddle with.

Please don't buy a Philips because I'm sure we will never hear the end of it.

i think one thing that really helps philips is there back light control, i guess it helps to also be on of the biggest flourescet lighting manufactur in the world

[Traitorsgate]

Do these things have a HD tuner. It is hard to find this out from the promotional material. I understand that in Europe the D on the end of the model number stands for "digital" tuner and a H stands for "High Definition" tuner.

Only the D model has arived in Australia I think?

Basically any LCD or Plasma being sold in Australia currently that has either a HD Ready screen or a Full HD screen has a HD tuner onboard. People seem to get confused by reading UK forums as there is still next to no terrestrial HD programming there. The BBC is still only trialling it as I understand. Consequently the main provider of HD programming in the UK is SKY for which you need an STB like you do with Foxtel in Australia. As a result TV's sold in the UK until recently only required an onboard analogue and standard definition digital tuner. The long and the short of it is, don't spend to much time looking at specs for TV's being sold in the UK and Europe as they are designed for an environment wholly different to what you have in Australia.

[Gazman1973]

Oz, like Roninrr, I sit predominantly in front of the screen from approx 4mtrs away. I have my LCD on a unit which when sitting down it sits roughly at eye level give or take a few mm's. I also have a couch side-on which I've sat and layed down on viewing from an angle, at roughly eye level again, and have never seen any drop in PQ. I'm not sure how you view your Tv but I usually sit quite still and don't bounce up and down or do any kind of squatting excercises whilst watching Tele. I can confirm that after 2 nights of specifically looking out for what you're talking about, I have watched FTA SD and HD channels, including live footy, SD Foxtel and dvd's from both angles mentioned and again didn't see any drop in PQ. I can still say watching anything on this tele still blows me away. If I was to criticise anything about the picture, some people can look quite artificial in their backround but I think this is all due to being used to lesser quality pictures with poorer clarity which blurs all the picture together makign it smoother. I've even found some news coverage, where they go to the reporters, where this PQ is so clear, that I've been shocked by a few dots on the screen which scared the crap out of me thinking it was my pixels, but in actual fact, was dirty camera lenses from the channels cameras. Other than the ultimate crisp clarity which can cause pictures to look almost too perfect, I'm blown away with everythig I watch to be totally honest and thats not because I wouldn't talk it down because I've bought it. Beleive you/me, if anything and I mean anything changes with my opinion, I'll be the first to jump on here and tell the world in an honest opinion. Have a good weekend!

[grl]

I've seen this effect on the previous models. Other brands do it too, some worse than others. I'd say the new Samsung series 6 is best at not doing this. Because of that I reckon it might be to do with screen coatings etc. The Series 6 Samsungs have a gloss finish like the old CRT sets. The series 5 and series 4 models aren't too bad either but they don't have a gloss finish. Toshiba wasn't great either from memory with grey out occurring on wider angles. I am sorry to hear that about the new Philips models. When you have a family like I do, spread out around the TV, viewing angles and their affect on PQ matter. Not everybody gets to sit fully perpendicular to the screen.

[automan]

If you have people sitting on wide angles then that is the benefit of buying Plasma over LCD.

I used to love Samsung lcd's but PQ lacks alot with current models.

Best LCd's imo are 1st Philips, then Sony X and then Samsung 6 series.

[Underd0g]

Just a heads up guys. I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has already been covered,

These TV's are a Harvey Norman Exclusive until the End of august.

I work for the Good Guys, and tried to get one for a customer, unfortunately to be told they are exclusive to Harveys till pretty much after the olympics. So yeah, there is no point going in and bullshitting to them about better prices elsewhere, or the salesperson will laugh you out of the shop.

My suggestion is to wait unitl early sept, then you will see the best prices, with every man and his dog selling them.

Hope this helps.

[automan]

They do have the other 2 models below this one that is $500 and $1000 cheaper at Good Guys.

The one I saw was the 3 ms respose time 100hz model for $2499 at the Good Guys.

As far as I know only Harvey Norman and The Good Guys sell Philips LCD's here in Melbourne.

[Traitorsgate]

Regarding the availability of the new models I spoke with a rep at Domayne this week who said something similar, to the effect that they don't expect to have the new models in until around September - November!! So yeah it looks like Harvey Norman is currently the only people who have them in stock. The 47PFL9703D/79 currently has a sticker price of $3800, I should be able to get a few hundred off if I pay cash me thinks. My accountant submitted my tax return this week with an estimated return of $3500 so I'm crossing my fingers for the next fortnight that I may be able to pick this LCD up for next to nothing!

Edited August 8, 2008 by Traitorsgate

[HiDef Jules]

If you have people sitting on wide angles then that is the benefit of buying Plasma over LCD.

I used to love Samsung lcd's but PQ lacks alot with current models.

Best LCd's imo are 1st Philips, then Sony X and then Samsung 6 series.

Im amazed you think that the current Sony X series is better than the Samsung 6 series, having owned both I can assure you that the 6 series exceeds the X series in many areas and is definately a better TV

[roninrr]

Do these things have a HD tuner. It is hard to find this out from the promotional material. I understand that in Europe the D on the end of the model number stands for "digital" tuner and a H stands for "High Definition" tuner.

Only the D model has arived in Australia I think?

Mill

As I understand it, the tuner on the H model (available in Europe) is able to receive TNT-HD format broadcast which includes mpeg-4 material. In all other respects it is the same as the D model which is offered in Australia.

The D model certainly receives and plays all the HD channels broadcast in Australia in spectacular clarity.

Interestingly both H and D models seem to be able to only playback mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 content when fed through the LAN connection from a computer network which suggests that the only difference is the tuner for receiving live broadcast.

roninrr

[rodadus]

Im amazed you think that the current Sony X series is better than the Samsung 6 series, having owned both I can assure you that the 6 series exceeds the X series in many areas and is definately a better TV

youre 100% right on that.Even Cnet(American site) rate it above the X series.