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Tassie Devil

Have Austar Changed Encryption On Their Cards?

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it was damn annoying regardless of austar's understandable wish to stop piracy....

Can't argue with that.

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Can't argue with that.

my goodness.....we agree....that's progress....we'll see for how long though!!! :lol:

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Douglas, I think we can all agree the 3rd party issue is dead for the moment, but for those of us who were platinum austar subscribers who got a great picture outta non-austar decoders and then had to revert to a basically unwatchable product it was damn annoying regardless of austar's understandable wish to stop piracy....

well if people hadn't had a 3rd party box in the first place, people would not have known any better as to what "great picture" really means. ;-)

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Its a stretch to say that Austar's picture was 'great' even with 3rd party equipment. Grating might be a better choice of word.

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Its a stretch to say that Austar's picture was 'great' even with 3rd party equipment. Grating might be a better choice of word.

Thats only because people sacrifice to equipment with different features for the same amount of money, not one with brilliant picture quality :-)

Now, instead of sitting at home recording (effectively hoarding content you will probably never have time to see again) and watching Austar, go do something physical instead and experience something real and not just watch it on TV. I hear the snow is great this year! I would trade the money I spend on Austar for a whole year for a one week experience at the snow instead anyday! ;-)

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Douglas, I think we can all agree the 3rd party issue is dead for the moment, but for those of us who were platinum austar subscribers who got a great picture outta non-austar decoders and then had to revert to a basically unwatchable product it was damn annoying regardless of austar's understandable wish to stop piracy....

My grandfather who is a platinum subscriber and is a home theatre guru has never complained about picture quality. And, to my knowledge, he still uses the cables that came with his Omega box over six years ago.

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3rd party decoders were commonly used by pirates to provide pirate services.

And also by people with a legitimate subscriber card who wanted component or RGB out and digital audio, which the better third party boxes delivered. Until a year ago austar didnt give a rats arse about either component or digital audio, and mostly its still a suck it ans see lottery choice whether you get it or not unless you pay more for the mystar

Because Austar, like many companies (i.e. Microsoft, various movie firms, etc.), they didn't like tis piracy, so they did something to attempt to knock it out: by knocking out the 3rd party decoders, they can kiss goodbye a load of pirate subscribers. Microsoft tried (and ultimately failed) with Activation and Windows\Office Genuine Advantage, and the movie people employed macrovision copy protection on DVD's.

Activation and Windows\Office Genuine Advantage: currently easily defeated in both XP and Vista

macrovision: even easier to defeat, and thanks to a fark up by a hardware manufacturer the algorithm of dvd encryption was determined, hence the billions of blank dvds being sold

And finally, as DrP has hinted because Austar still use 4.1s and unprotected firmware, GammaV2 is useable on most third party Irdeto compliant STBs, even crappy non licenced irdeto boxes, so all Austar have done in effect is piss off their legitimate customers who want a better picture and sound and posssibly a PVR not crippled like the Mystar is, so what was the point? I for one still cant see why Austar cant just go third party to foxtel/videoguard/nds and use/onsell licenced foxtel stbs like the IQ and the IQ2. Optus onsells Foxtel and IQ1, so why cant Austar? If Susta had any sense they would just onsell, replace all Irdeto boxes with IQs and then Austar wouldnt have to fork out the bickies for HD PVR development as its already done, Whiteys would be dead and the picture/audio/crappy Titan/Omega etc etc issue would be dead and buried. So whats stopping them? Foxtel wont play? A contract they cant get out of in the near future with Mindport/Irdeto? or both?

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Who in their right mind would go to select. Even mentioning that you would subscribe to them shows you are a moron.

and it costs about $400 to get installed. You got to buy your own equiptment

Ive never subscribed to Select so I dont know if the support is any good or not, but its ideal for people who dont have $100 a month and dont want a 2 year contract, not everyone is into foxsports

As for $400 :rolleyes: if you hunt around you can get a brand new 65cm dish and lnb for $80, 30 m of quad cable for $30, an outlet for $5, and an irdeto compliant STB for <$100, thats nowhere near $400, well it wasnt when i went to school, maybe maths has changed since then :lol: u just need to do some chasing. PAS8 or whatever its called these days is one of the strongest ku band birds in the sky and finding it and locking is a lot simpler than you think, a 10 year could do it.

As for using your own equipment, a lot of people see that as a bonus

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Activation and Windows\Office Genuine Advantage: currently easily defeated in both XP and Vista

macrovision: even easier to defeat, and thanks to a fark up by a hardware manufacturer the algorithm of dvd encryption was determined, hence the billions of blank dvds being sold

I know all this - I did mention that Microsoft tried and ultimatley failed with them. Didn't mention macrovision had been defeated, but I knew that anyway (I believe it's common knowledge: to record something with it, use a video stabilizer. To copy a DVD, use one of many freely available programs).

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Whew, you ARE annoyed!!!

But rather than blame Austar for all this we should blame the pirates. If they had not been taking for free what we have been paying for then maybe the cost might have come down because of the broader subscriber base & we might still have been able to use whatever PVR etc we chose.

But that is history now so it is not much use throwing sand in the sandbox about it all.

Bottom line, it is a business and Austar have been losing money until recently so their charges are not really a rip off. It is a free country - we do not have to subscribe.

However, as I posted above, I'll be shifting across to Select as soon as the contract runs out and will not be joining the Mystar fiasco.

John

i'm not sure about that john as far as i know pirates have been sunk for years and austars prices just keep going up and up if they require a broader base then they need to bring down their prices select tv doesn't have as much to offer but $29.95/m is more realistic in my opinion

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ias far as i know pirates have been sunk for years and austars prices just keep going up and up

Sunk? I dont think so mate, maybe temporarily run ashore but they arent sunk yet

Jan 2004 brought a temporary end to unauthorised card based piracy of Austar and Foxtel with the introduction of Irdeto2 and NDS respectively. Irdeto2 was compromised around mid last year by "the gamma team" and unauthorised cards, even ones you could do yourself really got going in this country around september last year. AFAIK only the DIY variety have been killed, the DIY account details were posted on just about every sat forum in the country and overseas as well, which made it very easy for Austar to kill them, but they havent been successful (yet) in killing the "seller" cards. "Seller" pirate cards were easily available until about march this year when a federal police raid dramatically reduced supply, also resulting in the "change" by Austar that made third party STBs useless with genuine Austar cards. The pirates responded with a change of the operating system on their unauthorised cards so they still work with third party STBs. I dont know any sellers so I cant really comment if the cards are still readily available, if there are sellers still out there they seem to have gone hush hush. maybe its now a not what you know but who you know to get one. As I said, I dont know any sellers so who knows if supply has been affected by the big bust in March.

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OK, so since I haven't been into 3rd Party, Gamma, Whiteys' etc, since the demise of the Goldy. Will a Gamma/Whitey work in a Flinders Austar box? That is, back in the Goldy days you paid for the basic, stuck in your Goldy and got the lot! Can this be done with a whitey??

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But rather than blame Austar for all this we should blame the pirates. If they had not been taking for free what we have been paying for then maybe the cost might have come down because of the broader subscriber base & we might still have been able to use whatever PVR etc we chose.
i'm not sure about that john as far as i know pirates have been sunk for years and austars prices just keep going up and up if they require a broader base then they need to bring down their prices select tv doesn't have as much to offer but $29.95/m is more realistic in my opinion

The problem is not the pirates. It's the account defaulters and Austar/Foxtel for no credit checks.

A very common example is:

Foxtel offers free install plus 1st month free. The door sellers come into town and run riot in our darker cousin areas. Many people sign up just because of the free deal, then default on payments because they can't afford it. Foxtel then disconnects them. It doesn't end here....

Next time a free offer is available and the door sellers are around, these same people do exactly the same thing.

As an ex-installer, I've been to the same houses over and over again each time a free deal is offered.

Now, here's a rough basic cost breakdown.

Door seller: $100 per signup

Installer: $230 for simple CBS install. $65 if dish in place. Much more for IQ and multirooms.

Installer Disconnect: $45

Fees to BSA/Downer: $???

So far, we have $400+ spent and STB costs even before the provider see's a return.

There is no credit check or past account check done. They just get signed up.

So when this cycle happens over and over again, who pays? It's the current subscriber base though higher fees.

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The problem is not the pirates. It's the account defaulters and Austar/Foxtel for no credit checks.

A very common example is:

Foxtel offers free install plus 1st month free. The door sellers come into town and run riot in our darker cousin areas. Many people sign up just because of the free deal, then default on payments because they can't afford it. Foxtel then disconnects them. It doesn't end here....

Next time a free offer is available and the door sellers are around, these same people do exactly the same thing.

As an ex-installer, I've been to the same houses over and over again each time a free deal is offered.

Now, here's a rough basic cost breakdown.

Door seller: $100 per signup

Installer: $230 for simple CBS install. $65 if dish in place. Much more for IQ and multirooms.

Installer Disconnect: $45

Fees to BSA/Downer: $???

So far, we have $400+ spent and STB costs even before the provider see's a return.

There is no credit check or past account check done. They just get signed up.

So when this cycle happens over and over again, who pays? It's the current subscriber base though higher fees.

ok interesting insight it makes sence

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I've never seen the reason why people want to use 3rd Party decoders. I like the MyStar (we're one of the lucky few, or lucky one, who don't have to restart it often), and wouldn't give it up for all the chocolate in the space-time continuum. Granted it has it's flaws, but, then again, pretty much everything has flaws.

And besides, on 3rd party boxes, you have problems such as these and the fact you can't get the Weather Active, etc., stuff would annoy me. And besides, the boxes they give you are free. Why fork out for something that does the job competently?

My god are you serious? I was using my Dreambox quite nicely until Auscrap decided to change things about, which then stopped me from using my 3rd Party STB and now have to use their POS STBs!

I could schedule recordings, etc etc and at a price that cost me nothing! Now to get the same service they want me to use this POS myStar MuthaF**ker device!

Not to mention I could schedule all this from my computer and watch Austar via a web interface to my dreambox, man were those the days.

Now to add more salt into my already hatred Auscrap heart, they have moved some Rugby games from Fox Sports to Sentanta Sports channel! F**k em! Now I have to subcribe to this BS channel to watch my rugby! Bast*rds!

Auscrap can lick me big black sweety nut sacks.

YEAH! <_<

Edited by Tumatawhero

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The problem is not the pirates. It's the account defaulters and Austar/Foxtel for no credit checks.

Yes, this has to contribute heavily to the prices because either way Fox doesn't pay the costs - customers do.

A very common example is:

Foxtel offers free install plus 1st month free. The door sellers come into town and run riot in our darker cousin areas. Many people sign up just because of the free deal, then default on payments because they can't afford it. Foxtel then disconnects them. It doesn't end here....

Next time a free offer is available and the door sellers are around, these same people do exactly the same thing.

Would not deny that this happens, but I am sure there are plenty of WASPs that do exactly the same as your "darker cousins". Strange point to make.

As an ex-installer, I've been to the same houses over and over again each time a free deal is offered.

Now, here's a rough basic cost breakdown.

Door seller: $100 per signup

Installer: $230 for simple CBS install. $65 if dish in place. Much more for IQ and multirooms.

Installer Disconnect: $45

Fees to BSA/Downer: $???

So far, we have $400+ spent and STB costs even before the provider see's a return.

There is no credit check or past account check done. They just get signed up.

There is some confusion here between actual costs to Fox (the $100 to the door seller is a genuine cost, as are the fees to the BSA) and the prices that Fox charge (all the rest of them) to do the installations. The latter are not necessarily the retail costs at all, of course.

So when this cycle happens over and over again, who pays? It's the current subscriber base though higher fees.

Again, wouldn't dispute the reasoning, but I suspect that Fox have had their bean counters do the sums and find it is cheaper to do this and pick up a few more genuine subscribers as part of their overall advertising scheme. Also, their current subscribers have the option to protest by not paying for Foxtel any more, but they fear the withdrawal symptoms and Fox know this.

I don't dispute that I think, like you, this business method makes very little sense, but there is little in economics (especially in big monopolies) that looks like common sense.

Cheers,

Al.

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Interesting to see this quite old thread is still alive.

Well I've been with the Select TV crowd for some time now. Initially I had trouble recording on the Toppy 5000 but thanks to help here now have 100% success rate. :rolleyes: I'm unable to use the 2 tuners so it is effectively a single tuner unit but because we have seen most of the documentary programs (repeated ad nauseum) we are usually only recording a few movies and can dodge clashes. We miss the History and Bio channels but gave up paying Select extra for the Discovery ones as we found little left of interest.

However I'm still perplexed about negative comments re PQ. Yes it is only SD but we find most of the movies from 1990 on scale up as well as they do on FTA and are quite acceptable quality. ^_^

But again, we are now finding we have looked at many of those movies. However the really good ones (around 2/3 a week) are worth revisiting.

Bottom line is we find we have heaps to view from FTA, particularly ABC & SBS, so do not need a lot more from satellite -> Select fills that bill quite well.

I just looked at all the Austar spin re HD and their HD Mystar but am not the slightest bit tempted. I wonder where their boxes are coming from with only 160GD HDD and no HDMI connector.

Interesting times.

John

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Interesting to see this quite old thread is still alive.

Alive.... like a 50's movie zombie.

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Alive.... like a 50's movie zombie.

So beware it does not come back and bite you!

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