Which Screen?

[msp]

I think i should get a screen, i use a sanyo Z-5 in my bedroom, it projects on the wall.

http://www.projectorscreens.com.au/shop/in...mp;productId=56

or

http://store.cousinsvideo.com/96529.html

or will the screens not add too much improvment, what do you guys think?

[sfdoddsy]

Walls are good, but screens are better.

I'm guessing you don't project from far away (given the 92" size) so brightness isn't an issue.

For that projector, you should get a grey screen, and I'd suggest either the Da-Lite Perm Wall in High Contrast Cinema Vision or in High Contrast Da Mat.

Cousins don't ship overseas, but BHPhoto do.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...p;Q=*&bhs=t

[AZT]

Walls are good, but screens are better.

I'm guessing you don't project from far away (given the 92" size) so brightness isn't an issue.

For that projector, you should get a grey screen, and I'd suggest either the Da-Lite Perm Wall in High Contrast Cinema Vision or in High Contrast Da Mat.

Cousins don't ship overseas, but BHPhoto do.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...p;Q=*&bhs=t

Have a look at Screen Science - Digital Silver Grey - 1.2 gain. I have a 96" running a Panni AE500 brilliant. VGood Aus brand !-)

http://www.screenscinece.com.au

[oztheatre]

Why anyone would want to go grey with a home theatre PJ is beyond me. Your colours will not be accurate, yellows push to orange, whites are clearly off white, reds push towards maroon, sure you're blacks are blacker, but the bad outweighs the good. ALL your colours will not be tinted with grey. Go white every single time or get a projector with a higher contrast ratio (unless of course you want spend a kidney and get a Firehawk screen - no not all grey screens are made equal : )

[collinhack]

Yes, the firehawk is the only grey screen I've seen that I really like. But apparently they suffer a bit from a relatively narrow viewing angle, so as well as the cost, you need to have all your seating fairly central.

[AZT]

I have to disagree. What a load of trype.....especillaly from a biased product supplier(OzT guy !!!)(Whiskey-Tango-Foxtot) It is not possible for you to be objective in the forum.

I have had a Screen Science Digi Grey for three years that rocks. I first had a demo in the splendid AV Emporium of the venerable Len Wallis in Lane Cove , Sydney. That was with a crummy InFocus 7sh*t but was fantastic. The sales bloke who had a cut off panel of the SS grey to compare against the Stewart Firehawk said "it was very close to the Stewart NOT SO GOOD WITH BLACKS but look at the natural skin tones, the punchy colours and the wide viewing angle"

The whites on HD snow scenes were brilliant white, no sense of grey at all. The only coluur variation I could sense was a very slight blue push. Understandible ! I was sold....

In my HT(her sun room) we have cream walls and white ceilings with 8 big windows. Allowing enough ambient light to eat dinner, myself and SHE can enjoy it as good as TV in her sitting room.

OZ t Guy, your mob may not have a grey screen to offer or the technical nouse to do the Stewart stuff but dont bag all other grey screens outright.

The information you have posted is so biased, narrow and ignorant that your contribution to this forum is useless at best and missleading at worst. You are (SALESMAN) only trying to flog your stuff and not adding to the overall benifit and knowledge of the forum members.

Suggestion... stop using the site as a sales office and get a shop or somthing

[sfdoddsy]

Why anyone would want to go grey with a home theatre PJ is beyond me. Your colours will not be accurate, yellows push to orange, whites are clearly off white, reds push towards maroon, sure you're blacks are blacker, but the bad outweighs the good. ALL your colours will not be tinted with grey. Go white every single time or get a projector with a higher contrast ratio (unless of course you want spend a kidney and get a Firehawk screen - no not all grey screens are made equal : )

Joe Kane, of Video Essentials and ISF fame, begs to differ. As indicated in a comprehensive article in a recent WSR, he feels that we should all be using grey screens.

[oliverg]

Screens are very much an area where preferences are important.

Some people are happy projecting on a cream wall .. Personally, I couldn't think of anything more awful to look at except Magda naked.

I don't like most grey screens, the exception being the Firehawk/Greyhawks. Really, it depends a lot on your ambient light conditions and what projector you use.

I would never use a grey screen with a CRT... I would never use a high gain angular reflective in a non lighting controlled room.

Audition a screen in your own home, with your own projector and conditions and you will find that is the best way to approach the screen question.

It is also fair to say that unless you've tried a number of options, don't state that 'my way is best and only way' when you haven't even tried any alternatives.

Oztheatre IMHO makes a good point about most grey screens and being a dealer, it would be safe to assume that he has seen a substantial number of setups - both good and bad and can make authorative comments without needing to have an ultierior motive.

[oztheatre]

I have to disagree. What a load of trype.....especillaly from a biased product supplier(OzT guy !!!)(Whiskey-Tango-Foxtot) It is not possible for you to be objective in the forum.

I have had a Screen Science Digi Grey for three years that rocks. I first had a demo in the splendid AV Emporium of the venerable Len Wallis in Lane Cove , Sydney. That was with a crummy InFocus 7sh*t but was fantastic. The sales bloke who had a cut off panel of the SS grey to compare against the Stewart Firehawk said "it was very close to the Stewart NOT SO GOOD WITH BLACKS but look at the natural skin tones, the punchy colours and the wide viewing angle"

The whites on HD snow scenes were brilliant white, no sense of grey at all. The only coluur variation I could sense was a very slight blue push. Understandible ! I was sold....

Like I said not all grey screens are made equal. The screen you have may look ok. But heres some food for thought. I was in sydney around 2 years back, and visited Lifestyle store in Parramatta, they had a SS grey screen in one of their rooms with a really expensive sony projector. It looked good, about an 80 inch screen. I knew it was grey straight up because the colours were not, well lets just say they were not how they should look on a white screen. So I showed the owner what my fabric looked like on their grey screen, and he was blown away. Sure the blacks were not as black, but the skin tones and all other colours came to life. The owner also said to me he has never liked grey screens because they do not display the image accurately.

Those snow white scenes will actually look even whiter on a white screen. It's then that you actually realise what you've been looking at was not white at all, your eyes do indeed get used to what theyre looking at, but when you stick a white piece of material up over a grey screen you will see the difference immediately. I have seen this and shown this to people many many times so please don't even go there

In my HT(her sun room) we have cream walls and white ceilings with 8 big windows. Allowing enough ambient light to eat dinner, myself and SHE can enjoy it as good as TV in her sitting room.

OZ t Guy, your mob may not have a grey screen to offer or the technical nouse to do the Stewart stuff but dont bag all other grey screens outright.

The information you have posted is so biased, narrow and ignorant that your contribution to this forum is useless at best and missleading at worst. You are (SALESMAN) only trying to flog your stuff and not adding to the overall benifit and knowledge of the forum members.

Well that makes about 3 of you that think along those lines. Think about it, if I were 'flogging my product' dont you think I would have recommended my own grey screen?

I agree, the SS grey screen is good, as is the firehawk, so that makes 2 good grey screens out of how many? 100? do the math. Most grey screens are garbage and should NOT be used in a home cinema, end of story.

Suggestion... stop using the site as a sales office and get a shop or somthing

I'm a manufacturer, I dont need a shop/b]

PS heres some of the vinyls we have sourced from around the world over the last 5 or so years. Not many greys in there because they're usually terrible and end up in the bin : ) http://www.ozts.com.au/vinyls.jpg

Edited March 12, 2008 by oztheatre

[oztheatre]

Joe Kane, of Video Essentials and ISF fame, begs to differ. As indicated in a comprehensive article in a recent WSR, he feels that we should all be using grey screens.

Yes he loves his firehawk screen. But he should also realise not everyone has a spare 5 grand for one.

Thats what he's recommending, not just ANY grey screen.

[Chesty]

I have to disagree. What a load of trype.....especillaly from a biased product supplier(OzT guy !!!)(Whiskey-Tango-Foxtot) It is not possible for you to be objective in the forum.

I have had a Screen Science Digi Grey for three years that rocks. I first had a demo in the splendid AV Emporium of the venerable Len Wallis in Lane Cove , Sydney. That was with a crummy InFocus 7sh*t but was fantastic. The sales bloke who had a cut off panel of the SS grey to compare against the Stewart Firehawk said "it was very close to the Stewart NOT SO GOOD WITH BLACKS but look at the natural skin tones, the punchy colours and the wide viewing angle"

The whites on HD snow scenes were brilliant white, no sense of grey at all. The only coluur variation I could sense was a very slight blue push. Understandible ! I was sold....

In my HT(her sun room) we have cream walls and white ceilings with 8 big windows. Allowing enough ambient light to eat dinner, myself and SHE can enjoy it as good as TV in her sitting room.

OZ t Guy, your mob may not have a grey screen to offer or the technical nouse to do the Stewart stuff but dont bag all other grey screens outright.

The information you have posted is so biased, narrow and ignorant that your contribution to this forum is useless at best and missleading at worst. You are (SALESMAN) only trying to flog your stuff and not adding to the overall benifit and knowledge of the forum members.

Suggestion... stop using the site as a sales office and get a shop or somthing

While Richard I am sure does not need defending, you seem to be comfortable having a go at him about his ethics and yet you have been on this forum for 5 minutes. Coming here with that attitude will get you no where fast.

I have yet to read a post where he has blatantly flogged his screens. Yes we all know he is a manufacturer of screens but we make informed choices about what we want to purchase.

A lot of people value Richards input on this forum and see past the dredge that you brought up.

Think about this next time you slag some one off...

[sfdoddsy]

Yes he loves his firehawk screen. But he should also realise not everyone has a spare 5 grand for one.

Thats what he's recommending, not just ANY grey screen.

No, he seems to be a fan of grey screens in general. He likes the Grayhawk and Firehawk because he thinks they are the best of the grey screens.

As you may have detected, I agree with him.

[oztheatre]

No, he seems to be a fan of grey screens in general. He likes the Grayhawk and Firehawk because he thinks they are the best of the grey screens.

As you may have detected, I agree with him.

To be honest, I see the an end for grey screens in the near future, especially in home cinema applications.

What is the reason for a grey screen? to boost the contrast or enhance the black levels.

I see projector manufacturers going leaps and bounds in the way of increasing contrast ratios.

Some day, it will get to the point where grey screens will hinder the performance of high contrast

ratio projectors (just as 'ordinary' grey screens hinder the performance of todays projectors).

I am sure some or even many will disagree, but I believe that some day we will see extremely high

contrast ratios and little or no need for grey.

Boardroom, office and outdoor applications are a different story, this is where I recommend grey.

[Jeffie1503561482]

just a q re contrast - which will end up with the lower contrast, with ambient light in a room - an ok contrast PJ with a grey screen, or a superior contrast PJ with a white screen?

[CAVX]

I am just watching Joe Kane's Digital Video Essentials now - LARGE SCREEN HOME THEATRES - found in Title 7, Chapter 18.

It seems to suggest that lower gain screens are going to be better than high gain screens, but not does not seem to indicate a preference to grey or white. The gain suggested is below 1.0.

It also mentions the importance of controlling ambient rfoom light - even suggesting a shadow box to prevent light reflection lighting up the ceilling and or floor in front of the projection screen which might reflect back onto the screen...

Mark

[oztheatre]

just a q re contrast - which will end up with the lower contrast, with ambient light in a room - an ok contrast PJ with a grey screen, or a superior contrast PJ with a white screen?

I don't know because the comparison is too broad.

The aim is to have no ambient light in the room.

Once light enters the room your contrast ratio goes out the window.

In other words unless you have a bat cave, the contrast ratios of projectors

should not be a buying factor at all.

[oztheatre]

I am just watching Joe Kane's Digital Video Essentials now - LARGE SCREEN HOME THEATRES - found in Title 7, Chapter 18.

It seems to suggest that lower gain screens are going to be better than high gain screens, but not does not seem to indicate a preference to grey or white. The gain suggested is below 1.0.

It also mentions the importance of controlling ambient rfoom light - even suggesting a shadow box to prevent light reflection lighting up the ceilling and or floor in front of the projection screen which might reflect back onto the screen...

Mark

Most would agree higher gain screens look better, 1.1 to 1.4 is the sweet spot for sure.

This is why studiotek 130 is used a reference screen, gain of 1.3. Firehawks gain is 1.1, in fact their only

material that's under 1 is greyhawk at .92.

From their own site: Higher lumen output projectors match well with lower gain screen surfaces. Hot spot artifacts are minimized; resolution and viewing angles are increased. Projectors with lower lumen output can be augmented with a quality Stewart high gain screen. Brightness is retrieved and the image emerges even when ambient light control is not optimum.

One would not call home theatre projectors high in lumens.

[sfdoddsy]

It depends whether you are talking about ambient light from external sources or ambient light from room reflections. The former is obviously evil and avoidable. The latter, whilst bad, is unavoidable unless you have a bat cave.

Fortunately on/off CR isn't really hit by a less than ideal room. Since a 'blacked' screen doesn't reflect light, the room doesn't return it. You can see this yourself in the change in the brightness of black bars as the on-screen brightness changes.

ANSI contrast is hit in anything less than a perfect room.

In a less than perfect room, or one with any induced ambient light, a grey screen can provide a major subjective improvement. In any room your blacks can only be as dark as an unlit screen. Grey screens are darker than white ones in ambient light. So to answer the above question, the OK projector would provide better blacks, and probably better contrast unless the other projector is much brighter.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Raider61

[CAVX]

Most would agree higher gain screens look better, 1.1 to 1.4 is the sweet spot for sure.

And the Acoustic Vison is 1.16(?) and I like it for sure...

Mark

[Jeffie1503561482]

So to answer the above question, the OK projector would provide better blacks, and probably better contrast unless the other projector is much brighter.

Thanks Raider, much appreciated.

[sfdoddsy]

No problems. I highly recommend reading Joe Kanes article in issue 119 of Widescreen Review.

Or even this one:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/white_gray...ion_screens.htm

BTW, I have a shadow box of sorts around my screen and it works very well.

[AZT]

Excellent article(it just happens to confirm my experience) well worth the read

Thanks Raider

[oliverg]

Have a look in the screens forum on AVS. There are quite a few other ISF certified contributors - as well as some knowledgeable enthusiasts. It is worth reading the various opinions - Joe Kane, whilst certainly a good 'reference' is but one of many experts and your own experience may vary or even manifest/differ widely from some of his points when applied to your own HT environment.

Also, always check the date of any articles/sources - HT technology is a fast paced world and observations that may be true in 2004 may not be as accurate when considered in 2008. On the whole, most fundementals will stay the same but the advent of any 'pretty amazing new stuff' can really alter the playing field.. overnight!