Dvb-s Computer Cards Still Working?

[matturn]

Can Austar still be legally received using a computer, a DVB-S card, an Irdeto 2 CAM and a valid Austar card?

[Chappas]

Can Austar still be legally received using a computer, a DVB-S card, an Irdeto 2 CAM and a valid Austar card?

Not legal according to Austar terms and conditions, but nothing stopping you from doing it. Just don't call Austar if you have a problem afterwards.

It does work, but not very well when I put it in a Twinhan 1030A with an Irdeto 2.26D softcell. Not very well because I get freeze frames from time to time in my recording and it can fall over sometimes making it very unreliable - unless I sit there and watch it record the program - a bit defeating the purpose a bit.

But now I have a Mystar, I don't really have to worry about it - it would be nice to have my own copy though which Mystar does not allow you to do.

[DrP]

Definitely, but you'll probably save yourself a lot of grief by using a basic STB or a PVR rather than a PC.

[davmel]

It does work, but not very well when I put it in a Twinhan 1030A with an Irdeto 2.26D softcell. Not very well because I get freeze frames from time to time in my recording and it can fall over sometimes making it very unreliable - unless I sit there and watch it record the program - a bit defeating the purpose a bit.

I think the use of the standard Irdeto CAM was the cause of your problems.

I've been using a FireDTV DVB-S receiver with a Freecam'd Irdeto v2.06 CAM and MyTheatre for the last 5 years and it hasn't skipped a beat. No glitches whatsoever (unless a storm comes through). I tried a v2.09 Irdeto CAM for a while and experienced ongoing glitches and other issues so I can only recommend a freecammed Irdeto v2.06 CAM.

I've recorded easily over 15+ terrabytes of video from Austar (and archived over 3TB permanently to hard drives) so it's a solution I find entirely reliable and dependable. For my needs a PVR or the MyStar could never archive all I want in an unencrypted lossless format - the drive content is either inaccessible or the drive size too small and I can't watch Austar and multiple FTA channels (including HD) on the same screen at the same time whilst recording the lot!

Nothing comes close to what a PC can do with the right combination of cards, software and LOTS of HD space (with cheap removable external hard drives for virtually permanent lossless backup).

Oh, and I've been able to remotely set recordings via the web for the last 5 years too... It's amusing to hear Foxtel customers boast of their amazing new IQ Remote Record feature!

Edited March 4, 2008 by davmel

[Jason_dinAlt]

Not legal according to Austar terms and conditions, but nothing stopping you from doing it.

Lets get one thing correct here. You are NOT breaking any laws using a genuine subscriber card in a non provider box or PC card. You are not circumventing any encryption as that is the intended purpose of the card. All you are doing is breaking terms and conditions set by Austar, and since when do they decided what is legal and not, I thought that was up to the government and the courts? In fact Austar wouldnt be so stupid to imply any breaking of the law, or try to take you to court because you havent broke any law.

Ive seen many people attempt it with DVB-S cards, and most experience lots of glitches, especially with the newer 5.1 and up cards, the 4.1 cards seem more stable. Your better off getting a third party box and hd/dvd recorder or third party DVB-S PVR if the primary purpose is to record Austar, or better yet a dreambox 7020, and stick a hard disk in the dreambox.

[Chappas]

Lets get one thing correct here. You are NOT breaking any laws using a genuine subscriber card in a non provider box or PC card. You are not circumventing any encryption as that is the intended purpose of the card. All you are doing is breaking terms and conditions set by Austar, and since when do they decided what is legal and not, I thought that was up to the government and the courts? In fact Austar wouldnt be so stupid to imply any breaking of the law, or try to take you to court because you havent broke any law.

Ive seen many people attempt it with DVB-S cards, and most experience lots of glitches, especially with the newer 5.1 and up cards, the 4.1 cards seem more stable. Your better off getting a third party box and hd/dvd recorder or third party DVB-S PVR if the primary purpose is to record Austar, or better yet a dreambox 7020, and stick a hard disk in the dreambox.

OK let me rephrase - you are breaking a contractual obligations of the terms and conditions. Breaking an obligation (like any other contract) that you agreed to is breaking the law.

Whether or not the law needs to be updated to reflect what is really going on is a different matter and its not what you were referring to. We all are technically competent and understand that its not right, yet thats beside the point.

Why should this technology be for the technically apt only? It should be for everyone, those who don't know where the power cable is or where the ON/OFF button is or the RESET button - and you expect them to understand the difference between breaking a system and using your smartcard in a different decoder which inadvertently bypass some Irdeto security measures is not piracy (according to current law)?

I agree you are more correct than the current law because I myself have a technical understanding and know what goes on. However, go fight your fight with the right crowd and tell it those who matter - those who make the law and enstate it so they understand it too. Otherwise you can't expect that just because you are more correct, the current law does not apply.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Chappas

[Refidim]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Piracy and other circumventions aside, Austar's terms and condition are not worth the paper they are written on because under the current legalisation in place they can not be enforced. You have not broken any law. If anything to go by Austar would have to establish that by using a 3rd party dives to access their service they have been financially disadvantaged. The same applies to Mobile phone even if you are locked into a contact you can still place your sim card in any other phone.

There're thousands of Austar subscribers who are and have been using 3rd part boxes and PVR's for years. Since 1995 not even one has ever been put on notice of any kind. Austar wouldn't benefit in any way from such actions.

Who ever is using a 3rd party box don't ever worried about it. If you are an enthusiast better join Austech.info forum you'll find it more informative and to the point.

[Chappas]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Piracy and other circumventions aside, Austar's terms and condition are not worth the paper they are written on because under the current legalisation in place they can not be enforced. You have not broken any law. If anything to go by Austar would have to establish that by using a 3rd party dives to access their service they have been financially disadvantaged. The same applies to Mobile phone even if you are locked into a contact you can still place your sim card in any other phone.

There're thousands of Austar subscribers who are and have been using 3rd part boxes and PVR's for years. Since 1995 not even one has ever been put on notice of any kind. Austar wouldn't benefit in any way from such actions.

Who ever is using a 3rd party box don't ever worried about it. If you are an enthusiast better join Austech.info forum you'll find it more informative and to the point.

Accusing me of supporting Austar? I don't think so.

Why don't we go sue Austar for bringing out v5.3 smartcards because they're stopping us from using 3rd party decoders as a result?

[DrP]

Who ever is using a 3rd party box don't ever worried about it. If you are an enthusiast better join Austech.info forum you'll find it more informative and to the point.

Hi B52. I like how you promote the MS STBs on Austech.. like you used to promote them here. I wonder how many people there are that you have mislead over there regarding the issues with the MS STBs

[Refidim]

Accusing me of supporting Austar? I don't think so.

Why don't we go sue Austar for bringing out v5.3 smartcards because they're stopping us from using 3rd party decoders as a result?

You'd be allot better off not subscribing to Professor P's doom and gloom preaching's since the creation of this forum.

Yes you'd have a valid cause of action if Austar would stop you for using your own box. The same was put to the test in relation to Mobile phones. The ACCC has found for the consumer.

The terms and conditions referred to, are in place to protect Austar in case where users of 3rd part boxes would makes any claims for downtime he or she may suffer. In addition Austar don’t want to burden their technical support section in responding to problems with equipment other then Austar’s.

If Austar rolls out 5.3 (or later) cards and enables particular security measures 3rd party receivers will be come unusable with Austar. Consider this before you purchase equipment to view Austar.

As for you, the honorable Professor P, for the last 2 years you still have not provided hard tangible evidence to your claim. Under the current climate and technological advances such investment to implement this feature is costly and provide zero benefit to Austar. A greater majority of Austar's box are too old and won't support soft cell 3 firmware. As you well know Foxtels cards which requires bidirectional handshake, are working well in Dream boxes, Dragon and a few other cams.

Don't purchase terrestrial FTA MPEG4 capable equipment for the sole purpose of obtaining MPEG4 decode ability. The Australian standard hasn't even been penned yet. Equipment purchased today might well be incompatible.

Another piece of false preaching. This has nothing to do with Australian standard being panned.

MPEG-2 HD chipsets are being phased out replaced with MPEG 4 which are 100% compatible with MPEG-2 anyway. New generation HD set tops rolling of the production lines in China are already MPEG-4. Very soon you will see Combo HD MPEG-4 equipped with QPSK and OFDM tuners, future proof for satellite and terrestrial until high speed affordable Internet will replace everything including your Austar,

Edited March 10, 2008 by Refidim

[Chappas]

You'd be allot better off not subscribing to Professor P's doom and gloom preaching's since the creation of this forum.

Yes you'd have a valid cause of action if Austar would stop you for using your own box. The same was put to the test in relation to Mobile phones. The ACCC has found for the consumer.

The terms and conditions referred to, are in place to protect Austar in case where users of 3rd part boxes would makes any claims for downtime he or she may suffer. In addition Austar don’t want to burden their technical support section in responding to problems with equipment other then Austar’s.

As for you, the honorable Professor P, for the last 2 years you still have not provided hard tangible evidence to your claim. Under the current climate and technological advances such investment to implement this feature is costly and provide zero benefit to Austar. A greater majority of Austar's box are too old and won't support soft cell 3 firmware. As you well know Foxtels cards which requires bidirectional handshake, are working well in Dream boxes, Dragon and a few other cams.

Another piece of false preaching. This has nothing to do with Australian standard being panned.

MPEG-2 HD chipsets are being phased out replaced with MPEG 4 which are 100% compatible with MPEG-2 anyway. New generation HD set tops rolling of the production lines in China are already MPEG-4. Very soon you will see Combo HD MPEG-4 equipped with QPSK and OFDM tuners, future proof for satellite and terrestrial until high speed affordable Internet will replace everything including your Austar,

Sounds like you have not tried putting a Mystar smartcard into your 3rd party decoder yet :-)

I have also posted a link to Irdeto's documents online and in particular to one PDF that talks about this "secure chipset" business which Im trying to understand still.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Chappas

[DrP]

You'd be allot better off not subscribing to Professor P's doom and gloom preaching's since the creation of this forum.

....

speed affordable Internet [/url]will replace everything including your Austar,

Where to start....

Mobile phones and pay TV operators are two completely different kettles of fish. Austar is entirely entitled to prevent the use of 3rd party boxes. If Austar choses to utilise the features of 5.3 and later cards to hit back at the pirates, then expect 3rd party equipment to become unusable.

Austar's T&C are black and white. Thou shalt not put thy card in any equipment other than the Austar equipment supplied to you as part of your subscription. The End.

Ah yes, NDS cards can be used in 3rd party boxes therefore ver 5.3 Irdeto with security features enabled can be to. Proof please, Refidim. Proof please.

As for MPEG4 AVC capable STBs, if you are as involved in the technical side as you have claimed to be (clearly you aren't but lets play devil's advocate for a moment) then you would be fully aware that some of the earlier decoders did not support the full MPEG4 AVC specification. No doubt some of the STBs that will 'flood the market' will be built upon those chipsets. If Australian broadcasters decide to use some of those features (CABAC springs to mind) then those STBs will not be able to decode the broadcasts. There's far more to it than just hardware issues too. Buy a box that doesn't support whatever the Australian standard might turn out to be and you may find that it doesn't perform as it should. I'm sure that people that own MPEG2 only STBs that only learn of channel PID mappings when they do a manual scan are all too aware of what happens when standards compliance is tossed out the window.

Poor old Refidim, this latest round of bile is probably because he doesn't like that I pointed out he posts as B52 on Austech, where he actively promotes the MS STBs like he use to here.... where he lies about the issues the MS boxes have, like he used to here.

I wonder if I should list the names he posts on all the forums I am aware he posts on... his posts might be interesting reading for various people. I wonder how many people Refidim has told there are no problems at all with the MS820.... you know, the transport stream not being sent to the CAM at the right times etc.

Sounds like you have not tried putting a Mystar smartcard into your 3rd party decoder yet :-)

Austar claims that the cards issued with the MyStar will not work in 3rd party equipment. I did ask for someone to confirm that a while back (note: whispa1970 and Refidim are excluded!) but to date no one has.

[Chappas]

So, I have:

A Twinhan 1030A card

Irdeto SCM CAM with 2.26C softcell

Spongebob smartcard out of my Atlas

It works with the Twinhan software, but sometimes won't lock onto the signal or can't decrypt it (one of the two)

When it does work and I make a recording, I find the video (upon playback) jumpy sometimes and pixellated for a few frames every so often.

Now I'm not sure what or why this is happening?

* Wrong DVB-S CI card?

* Wrong CAM?

* Wrong softcell in CAM?

* Wrong smartcard?

* Dodgy Twinhan software and I should get something else (like MyTheatre)?

I've already tried 2 different Twinhan cards, on 2 different PC's. Tried 2 different smartcards, however I've only managed to get this CAM to work (not other v1.09 CAM's since Austars/Foxtel's tweak) Please help. I am pulling out the last few strands on hair on my head! I just want a smooth recording straight onto my PC.

[MadMagpie]

I think the use of the standard Irdeto CAM was the cause of your problems.

I've been using a FireDTV DVB-S receiver with a Freecam'd Irdeto v2.06 CAM and MyTheatre for the last 5 years and it hasn't skipped a beat. No glitches whatsoever (unless a storm comes through). I tried a v2.09 Irdeto CAM for a while and experienced ongoing glitches and other issues so I can only recommend a freecammed Irdeto v2.06 CAM.

I've recorded easily over 15+ terrabytes of video from Austar (and archived over 3TB permanently to hard drives) so it's a solution I find entirely reliable and dependable. For my needs a PVR or the MyStar could never archive all I want in an unencrypted lossless format - the drive content is either inaccessible or the drive size too small and I can't watch Austar and multiple FTA channels (including HD) on the same screen at the same time whilst recording the lot!

Nothing comes close to what a PC can do with the right combination of cards, software and LOTS of HD space (with cheap removable external hard drives for virtually permanent lossless backup).

Oh, and I've been able to remotely set recordings via the web for the last 5 years too... It's amusing to hear Foxtel customers boast of their amazing new IQ Remote Record feature!

do you receive all the austar channels? I have a TWINHAN 1034 SAT CI PCI CARD and a IRDETO VERSION 2.21A CAM, twinhans software doesn't pick up all channels by default, I added a couple of transponders(?) to it and it found a few more but it can't find HistChn, Discovery, NatGeo or FoxSports 3. Mediaportal's tv server can't find the channels either.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

other than that it works fine.

[Chappas]

do you receive all the austar channels? I have a TWINHAN 1034 SAT CI PCI CARD and a IRDETO VERSION 2.21A CAM, twinhans software doesn't pick up all channels by default, I added a couple of transponders(?) to it and it found a few more but it can't find HistChn, Discovery, NatGeo or FoxSports 3. Mediaportal's tv server can't find the channels either.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

other than that it works fine.

Go to www.lyngsat.com and get the extra transponder info.

[MadMagpie]

Go to www.lyngsat.com and get the extra transponder info.

yeah, was one of the first things I did, added the transponder that they say carries those channels, the channels don't show up.

[Chappas]

yeah, was one of the first things I did, added the transponder that they say carries those channels, the channels don't show up.

Be careful though, there are some channels that appear twice on different transponders.

[davmel]

do you receive all the austar channels? I have a TWINHAN 1034 SAT CI PCI CARD and a IRDETO VERSION 2.21A CAM, twinhans software doesn't pick up all channels by default, I added a couple of transponders(?) to it and it found a few more but it can't find HistChn, Discovery, NatGeo or FoxSports 3. Mediaportal's tv server can't find the channels either.

Yes, I receive all the channels. It sounds like the .ini file with the transponder list that came with your software is inaccurate. All the channels you've mentioned I receive perfectly from the 12358MHz transponder so I suspect your software either doesn't list it or doesn't have the correct symbol rate (27800) associated with that transponder. I've generated my own .ini file with the following details for Optus C1 (from Lyngsat info) which I either import into my software before doing a scan for the first time:

[sATTYPE]

1=1560

2=Optus C1

[DVB]

0=21

21=12288,V,28650,12

1=12324,V,24450,12

2=12367,V,27800,34

3=12407,V,30000,23

4=12447,V,27800,34

5=12487,V,27800,34

6=12527,V,30000,23

7=12567,V,27800,34

8=12607,V,27800,34

9=12647,V,27800,34

10=12720,V,27800,23

11=12305,H,30000,34

12=12358,H,27800,34

13=12398,H,27800,34

14=12438,H,27800,34

15=12478,H,27800,34

16=12518,H,27800,34

17=12558,H,27800,34

18=12598,H,27800,34

19=12638,H,27800,34

20=12688,H,27800,34

[davmel]

Be careful though, there are some channels that appear twice on different transponders.

Yes, some channels have both Irdeto and NDS encryption for use by Austar and some channels only have NDS encryption for use by Foxtel only. MyTheatre and other software shows which encryption is used for each channel so it's easy to work out which one to use and delete the other channel.

In this case though all those unviewable channels are the Austar versions on one transponder which may be set in the default software to use the old 29473? or 30000 symbol rate rather than the current 27800. If the symbol rate isn't set correctly it can't decode even though the signal strength shows the signal is there.

[davmel]

* Wrong DVB-S CI card?

Twinhan sat cards are crap. I bought one from DigitalNow only to find that it wouldn't work in my only PCI slot in my Shuttle PC since it seemed to have a IRQ assignment that couldn't be resolved. With no resolution I sold it on ebay at a loss.

Recently I purchased a new PC with 3 PCI slots available and thought I might go for an internal card over the external FireDTV sat tuner, so I purchased another Twinhan sat card. Surprise surprise it won't work on my Vista 64 bit system no matter what I tried so I ended up selling it on ebay again.....

Do you think I'll ever recommend another piece of s**t Twinhan device again? No.

I've had a FireDTV external sat tuner for many years now and it's faultless. No PCI bus contention that can cause glitches. I've also just purchased the FloppyDTV DVB-S2 receiver for internal use in preparation for HD broadcasts on Optus C1 by Foxtel/Austar which won't be viewable using standard DVB-S cards, however I'll have to wait till MyTheatre is upgraded to support DVB-S2 cards before I stop using the existing FireDTV DVB-S tuner for scheduled recordings. Other software like DVBViewer and the customised version 'FireDTV Viewer' that comes with the card work fine with the DVB-S2 card.

* Wrong CAM?

Yes, definitely. The only glitch free CAM I know of that works with Austar cards are the freeCammed Irdeto's. They are more expensive but they work. Enough said.

* Wrong softcell in CAM?

See above

* Wrong smartcard?

No, any Austar card will work fine in a freecammed Irdeto Cam.

* Dodgy Twinhan software and I should get something else (like MyTheatre)?

Twinhan software is an absolute pathetic pile of crap. I prefer MyTheatre since I can use exactly the same software and interface that I use for FTA TV as I do for Austar. I regularly have one MyTheatre window open for Austar and another 3 open for viewing different FTA channels, each with a 1GB ram buffer for timeshifting so if I miss something I can go back and view or record it. (I prefer applications that use a RAM based timeshifting buffer rather than disk based to avoid constantly thrashing the hard drive).

It's all easy to do with the command line cardN profiles with MyTheatre that allows different shortcut icons to use different cards.

[Astrotoy7]

im glad I stumbled across this!

If anyone could oblige a sat newbie with some basic questions?

AIM: get setanta sports on my media center setup. (without foxtel/austar subsc) >>they have a service which can come out and do a setanta only installation. These are factors which prevent me getting Foxtel/Austar

*Austar doesnt service my area apparently

*Foxtel does, but IQ is insufficient to handle the volume of recording I want to do, plus I dont want to go on a longer term contract. Getting Foxtel into media center is possible with an analogue card, but its a painful process, with loss of quality along teh way. Of course Foxtel also has NDS, so ripping out one of their cards is pointless?!

*I dont having just setanta on, if I had other channel packages on, the family would usurp the TV! I wanna watch the footie(soccer) dammit!!

From their site >> Setanta Oz is on optus b3 12564 H 30000 Irdeto 2

QUERIES:

1. Does setanta Oz have videoguard/nds ontop of the irdeto2. I know its probably on lyngsat but I could only find the C1 listing(that obviously foxtel uses). Lyngsat is a bit of a labyrinthe for the newcomer

1. I used to have a foxtel installation, the dish is still there > I know foxtel is optus c1 > theres no way of making it B3 happy?? It'd save me $$$ !

2. How does one extricate the card from the box I will get ? Setanta actually does sell the cards on their own, what is a suitable STB that will save me paying them $220 for one!!

@DavMel >> assuming setanta oz on B3 doesnt have nds >> Id like to use a firetv box/card to get it into MCE as they seem mce optimised...

3. You mention the Freecamed Irdeto 2.06 CAM >> where did you get this DO you think it will be OK with setanta or can I use another irdeto CAM??

4. I was hoping to use it in a vistax86 based pc(also a shuttle) which currently has a dual dvbt card in it(for use within windows media center) >> will the firetv unit/internal card interfere with this??

thank you very much in advance!!

Ive been mce-ing for years, but am very much a rookie with this sat biz!

cheers

astro

Edited March 28, 2008 by Astrotoy7

[Guest patella]

From their site >> Setanta Oz is on optus b3 12564 H 30000 Irdeto 2

QUERIES:

1. Does setanta Oz have videoguard/nds ontop of the irdeto2. I know its probably on lyngsat but I could only find the C1 listing(that obviously foxtel uses). Lyngsat is a bit of a labyrinthe for the newcomer

1. I used to have a foxtel installation, the dish is still there > I know foxtel is optus c1 > theres no way of making it B3 happy?? It'd save me $$$ !

2. How does one extricate the card from the box I will get ? Setanta actually does sell the cards on their own, what is a suitable STB that will save me paying them $220 for one!!

@DavMel >> assuming setanta oz on B3 doesnt have nds >> Id like to use a firetv box/card to get it into MCE as they seem mce optimised...

3. You mention the Freecamed Irdeto 2.06 CAM >> where did you get this DO you think it will be OK with setanta or can I use another irdeto CAM??

4. I was hoping to use it in a vistax86 based pc(also a shuttle) which currently has a dual dvbt card in it(for use within windows media center) >> will the firetv unit/internal card interfere with this??

thank you very much in advance!!

1a. Setanta on Optus D2 is only Irdeto

1b. Yes you can make it D2 happy. You need to move the dish by 4 degrees. check this http://www.sciteq.com.au/store/page.php?page=calculators

2. Any Irdeto certified receivers. there are boxes that emulate Irdeto but occasionally play up with new 5.3 irdeto cards. Arion 3030 is a good one and cost 100 dollars.

3. if you are planning to record it with a PC get a PC card that supports Irdeto CAM, emulators will not work well. any CI irdeto cam will do with a legit card.

ebay is your friend.

4. don't know

5. Setanta picture quality is crap no matter what you use!!!!

[pheggie]

Anyone got a Twinhan DVB-S2 Card from http://www.digitalnow.com.au

working with official Austar card?

[Astrotoy7]

thanks patella I know setanta is SD at best! But its soccer, not the latest star wars movie in 5.1, so not a huge issue atm

Between here and austech. ive sorted things out >> all i need to do is get a capable receiver/box,a subscription card, and tune to D2. Im looking at the homecast s8000CI PVR at this stage, as I want to record a little(archiving not a huge issue)

@pheggie >> we seem to be crossing paths a bit

looking at DavMels post, his unit is an external version of an firedtv pci/pcie/fw card .... Im not sure about nds restrictions on austar and how that is affected w pc SETUP, Id say youd need to look into the progDVB/My Theatre apps for a bit more info

good luck

astro

Edited March 30, 2008 by Astrotoy7