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Milesey74

Going from Separates to the ARCAM AVR600

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How about the new ARCAM AVR500 which is being released.

quote from the web

"Arcam assures that the build quality of the AVR is still very much the same as that of the AVR600, though a bit of its functionality has been taken out. Features often seen as extras, such as internet radio streaming and IP Control have been removed along with a network card. Compatibility with older hardware may also be diminished due to the lack of some legacy video and audio outputs.

Of course, the Arcam AVR500 wasn’t lauded for amazing networking capabilities, and it didn’t get rave reviews for its ability to stream Pandora. It was known for one thing and one thing only – audio quality."

Edited by rocky500

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Yes the arcam avr 600 is absolutelly phenominal i am going to get one let me know if you want one i may be able to get 2 at a good price Kind regards Mile

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I have listened arcam avr 600 with nu-force oppo blue ray player absolutely phenominla qualiyu of sound through sanyo 1080p projector and legacy focus se fronts andlegacy centre and rears and with quality cables i was knocked out so this year i will build my av with these products Mile

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I've used the AVR600 and own the products you own/am thinking of buying. I think you'd be mad to go back to an all-in-one and I'd question the products owned by those upgrading should they not stack up to an all-in-one. Do not trust reviewers or people on forums. Always use them as a rough guide at best and go have a listen. Most people know squat. Have you seen the inside of an Arcam AVR600 compared to your NAD? If you swap the Pre and don't notice enough improvement you can always change the power. The M25 is a beast - it's difficult to belive the Arcam will give off the kind of power your M25 is capable of given the lab specs quoted above. Wherever you purchased your gear from, you've obviously spent a considerable amount of money so ask if you can home-demo the Arcam. I'd be surprised if you were overly impressed. All the best.

Edited by himey

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Haven't you read the Widescreen review from the guy that lives in old ballroom under a Spanish castle - he's using seven B&W 802D speakers and the AVR600 is the best sound he's ever heard... like ever! Run, don't walk to your dealer and accept whatever he's willing to offer you for feable Krells or whatever audio minutae you have.

Women weap at the sound of the Arcam and even the cat has taken an unprecedented interest in music.

Yours in audio nirvana....

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I have listened arcam avr 600 with nu-force oppo blue ray player absolutely phenominla qualiyu of sound through sanyo 1080p projector and legacy focus se fronts andlegacy centre and rears and with quality cables i was knocked out so this year i will build my av with these products Mile

Was this at Pymble hifi?

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Haven't you read the Widescreen review from the guy that lives in old ballroom under a Spanish castle - he's using seven B&W 802D speakers and the AVR600 is the best sound he's ever heard... like ever! Run, don't walk to your dealer and accept whatever he's willing to offer you for feable Krells or whatever audio minutae you have.

Women weap at the sound of the Arcam and even the cat has taken an unprecedented interest in music.

Yours in audio nirvana....

This is exactly why you don't want to put your faith in idiots on forums or morons that right over the top tripe for reviews. As I have stated; list the type of gear you have and ask if your dealer will let you try a demo model at home. If you have purchased this much gear from one source in the past, they should let you - if not, see if your local dealer will accept your credit card as good faith. The simple fact is; many reviewers often don't know **** about hifi. And even if they do, they're paid to write in order to sell product, not help you. Bloggers are the same; more often than not, they're equally useless. They know what they think they like and claim it's the fruit of the gods. Go out, listen, find what you like, buy it and be happy.

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I would definitely not Any company that is making up claims of "Class G" is just doing some marketing spin. What on earth does "G" stand for? :P

not sure why you say this - what does A or B stand for?

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/class-g.htm

but anyway, agree the OP made the right decision

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It doesn't make much sense to me on a practical level to spend so much on an all-in-one. You are mixing many different functions into the one box, including technology that will date differently. On the AV processor side of things you may want to upgrade sooner than you would need to with the amps - the technology changes. The preamp and power amps won't date nearly as fast as the technolgy here moves at a slower pace. A 10 year old power amp isn't old, but for surround processing that's a different story. Also there is the issue of things going wrong. If one part fails you may be a bit more stuck than if you had separates.

It's a silly situation that dedicated surround processors are so expensive. You can buy a new receiver from about $400, but if you remove one of the most expensive parts (5-7 channels of power amps) then the cost goes up 10 fold! Sure, it's an apples - oranges comparison, but it seems to me it would make sense to offer dedicated surround processors starting from $1k. You buy power amps for more long term use (say 10 years) but you might replace the processor every 5 years to stay up to date. The only way to do this is buy from overseas.

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It doesn't make much sense to me on a practical level to spend so much on an all-in-one. You are mixing many different functions into the one box, including technology that will date differently. On the AV processor side of things you may want to upgrade sooner than you would need to with the amps - the technology changes. The preamp and power amps won't date nearly as fast as the technolgy here moves at a slower pace. A 10 year old power amp isn't old, but for surround processing that's a different story. Also there is the issue of things going wrong. If one part fails you may be a bit more stuck than if you had separates.

It's a silly situation that dedicated surround processors are so expensive. You can buy a new receiver from about $400, but if you remove one of the most expensive parts (5-7 channels of power amps) then the cost goes up 10 fold! Sure, it's an apples - oranges comparison, but it seems to me it would make sense to offer dedicated surround processors starting from $1k. You buy power amps for more long term use (say 10 years) but you might replace the processor every 5 years to stay up to date. The only way to do this is buy from overseas.

Gents, I agreed with most of your posts! I really did. Until I had the opportunity recently to hear the Arcam AVR600 with my speakers. I was at a get together provided by VAF in Sydney. I went there simply to meet Phil Vafiadis, an incredible man with a wealth of knowledge in many areas (especially speakers!). Needless to say I was amazed that he was running an AVR600 to demo these very high end speakers and soundwall. What got me though, was my Wife, turning around and saying to me, 'why does it not sound this good at home'. I would have liked to have used the room as an excuse but the room we were in for the demo was hardly an acoustically treated room (Hotel floor in the city). So after all of that I bought an Arcam AVR600 (not from a Sydney retailer) and replaced my Denon 4308 and awesome power amplifier NADM25. To say that the sound is a massive improvement is an understatement! I just could not believe it. It still does not make sense to me! I then bought my other SNA friend (Alex) over for a listen, he is now saving his dollars and will sell his $10,000 Meridian amplifier to purchase one and he is a 2 channel guy!!

You will see my beloved Denon 4308 and NAD25 for sale soon. But before I do sell them I am going to test the Arcam with the NAD to see if there is any noticeable difference in sound quality. I really do love my NADM25 so I owe it one more look in before departing with it.

I am a professional Engineer (Electrical), I do not believe hype in articles nor do I believe in high end power cables etc. However, Arcam has produced something extraordinary here.

My review thus far:

Bass without subwoofer - My walls were shaking and so were the HT seats in the opening scene of Transformers on Bluray. My friend got up and put the back of his hand on the SVS to ensure it was not on. The bass is tight and controlled but also deep.

Treble - No over the top brightness at all. The highs are smoothed but not excessively.

The difference between all my previous high end gear...one word....DETAIL. The detail in the music I can hear with this amp is beyond anything I have heard previously!

What I don't like about it:

It is very simple! I am not used to it, the features are limited. It does not have a volume knob, which is ridiculous!! You can biamp the mains but not the centre (which is what I will do if I keep the NAD M25). At the moment I am running 7 channels with no biamping and the sound is incredible (I honestly thought I would miss the power especially since I don't have overly sensitive speakers)! No ethernet upgrades. It has to be downloaded to a pc and then transfered through the 32 port. I can't help but wonder if Audyssey would be an improvement on the very effective eq of the Arcam.

Why did I buy this? Well, as I said before I went to the VAF demo in Sydney simply to meet Phil and also have a look at the VERY impressive soundwall. If anything I wanted to walk away with 4 x VAF i91s for surrounds to replace my Kefs. Instead I was blown away by the Arcam AVR600 and trust me I did not want to be impressed by anything that was going to cost me more money. I was very happy with the sound I was getting with my previous system and YES IT FELT WRONG GOING FROM SEPARATES TO AN ALL IN ONE!! It really did! But I can't argue with what I am hearing! This only happened 2 weeks ago!!

SNA members ignore some of the ridiculous 'advertising posts' in this thread which I have not even bothered to reply to, not only that it is very disappointing that some people have chosen to use this thread as cheap and nasty way to push their products!

If anyone would like anymore information on my latest purchase I am happy to continue discussions with legitimate SNA members. I am happy to answer any queries and questions and I will be sure to post a more detailed review soon.

Also, I should note, that maybe it is just that this amp is truly matched to my VAF i93mk2s. I don't know.

I agree, with the above post insert reference pre-amps. Why the hell is a pre-amp more expensive than an all in one. It does not make any sense to me either.

One last thing, as a side note, Arcam do a pre and pro but it is approaching $20,000!! And the word from industry is that the sound difference between it and the Arcam AVR600 is negligible and certainly does not warrant the additional $13,000!! I can't help but wonder what the Arcam Avr600 would be like with the Arcam power amp as a pro.

Recently I spoke to a retailer in Brisbane who told me since stocking the Arcam AVR600 they have dropped the Denon AVCHD1 and stopped selling separates!! I said why, he replied 'They simply can't compete with what the sound this amp produces'. (This conversation took place after I bought the amp from another dealer).

Needless to say I am one happy camper at the moment and still am at a lost on why or how this receiver is as good as it is.

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Now there's a golden moment no audio enthusiast should pass up on, when your wife says

'why does it not sound this good at home'.

Whatever you have planned for your sound system that is the most expensive should be mentioned as quickly as possible!

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Now there's a golden moment no audio enthusiast should pass up on, when your wife says

Whatever you have planned for your sound system that is the most expensive should be mentioned as quickly as possible!

:D

I know! But I must admit I felt very guilty buying this unit! Especially since I was happy with the sound I was previously getting.

A quick update - Until about an hour ago I had not tested the Arcam with my vinyl properly. So far I am disappointed with the results. This is completely the opposite to my experience with CD and Bluray. So it may be an adjustment that I have wrong....

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As I suspected. I had the speakers set to small and the sub on. This setting whilst great for HT is less than ideal for 2 channel vinyl. I rectified this, turned the eq off, turned the sub off, increased the bass setting to help balance the levels for vinyl and am now getting much more appropriate results!

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Hi Milesey, just a quick question that I am curious about. Is there a huge difference when you bi-amp your fronts compared to when you don't?

Also, it's been great reading this thread because I am trying to decide between getting an AVR600 or separates.

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What I don't like about it:

It does not have a volume knob, which is ridiculous!!

HAHA , I had a Denon AVR for years and not once used the volume knob!! I like to sit back and use the remote.Also for those who use a HIFI cabinet with glass door have to set the AVR back 2 inches because of the BIG VOLUME KNOB!! Arcam got it right..

Play around with the settings and you will find the Arcam works well.As for your turntable, as I had a Denon 103R MC cart I got myself a Lehmann Black Cube SE and the sound ROCKS just as well as the SACD player.

Eamonn

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What I don't like about it:

It does not have a volume knob, which is ridiculous!!

HAHA , I had a Denon AVR for years and not once used the volume knob!! I like to sit back and use the remote.Also for those who use a HIFI cabinet with glass door have to set the AVR back 2 inches because of the BIG VOLUME KNOB!! Arcam got it right..

Play around with the settings and you will find the Arcam works well.As for your turntable, as I had a Denon 103R MC cart I got myself a Lehmann Black Cube SE and the sound ROCKS just as well as the SACD player.

Eamonn

I have a Michell Gyro SE, a with a clearaudio Maestro cartridge, and a Graham Slee Reflex phono stage. My vinyl reproduction on average (depending on the pressing) surpases my SACD and CD collection. However my Bluray collection of the Neil Young archives is what digital music should be like! ABSOLUTELY SUPERB!

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Milesey,

I've been following this thread from the first post, and it's just become even more interesting.

I'm very interested in how the AVR600 teams up with the M25.

Like you, I'm keen to simplify my setup (for the ladies of the house), and I've been thinking about the AVR600 for some time.

I too, have an M25, but I found that it didn't team at all well with the Arcam C31 2ch pre that I had for demo. There seemed to be some sort of mis-match between the C31 and M25 until each unit was fully booted up. No damage done, just a very loud and nasty hum coming from the speakers. The C31 went back very quickly.

It would be great to know if the AVR600/M25 combo has the same issue, or whether it's just a C31 thing.

Cheers,

Geoff

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Milesey,

I've been following this thread from the first post, and it's just become even more interesting.

I'm very interested in how the AVR600 teams up with the M25.

Like you, I'm keen to simplify my setup (for the ladies of the house), and I've been thinking about the AVR600 for some time.

I too, have an M25, but I found that it didn't team at all well with the Arcam C31 2ch pre that I had for demo. There seemed to be some sort of mis-match between the C31 and M25 until each unit was fully booted up. No damage done, just a very loud and nasty hum coming from the speakers. The C31 went back very quickly.

It would be great to know if the AVR600/M25 combo has the same issue, or whether it's just a C31 thing.

Cheers,

Geoff

Geoff, that is very interesting! My Wife has volunteered to help do a mixture of combinations this Sunday. We are going to try the Arcam in biamp mode. We will also try the Arcam as a pre with the NAD as a pro. I might even throw the Denon back into the mix somehow. The thing that is really annoying me at the moment is that I have an SVS ASEQ1 and can not get it to work properly with the Arcam AVR600. The ASEQ1 is an Audyssey machine that measures upto 32 positions in your room and does a great job of flattening the frequency response of your room through the application of filters. It is a superb piece of equipment and worked really well with the Denon 4308 and provided me the deepest cleanest bass I have ever experienced. So at the moment I am running the sub straight out of the back of the Arcam and it seems to be doing a good job but I am not convinced that the crossovers are as accurate or the bass as seemless. I will test this extensively on Sunday (hopefully).

I must admit that there is a part of me that hopes the NAD M25 in conjunction with the Arcam gives me more authority in the sound that I am getting now. I don't think it will, I think I will be wasting my time. But, I need to know. I really do love the M25 and am reluctant to part with it.

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Milesey,

Good luck with your testing, and with the Audyssey machine. Perseverance often gets results!!

I really do hope the AVR600 goes well with the M25 (for both of us........).

Please report your findings. I'm keen to know.........

Cheers,

Geoff

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Just Google the Michell Gyro SE Graham Slee Reflex phono stage.Thats a nice looking turntable. As I haven't listen to other TTs its hard for me to compare the sound .Look forward to your combination results..

Eamonn

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My original thoughts were that the Denon as a pre/pro was not up to par with the M25. I would be extremely surpised if the AVR600 could compete with the M25 given its lab measurements. Two independant tests show similar results to this:

AVR600:

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:

0.1% distortion at 81.0 watts

1% distortion at 93.9 watts

The same lab measured these results for the M25:

All channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:

0.1% distortion at 194.3 watts

1% distortion at 230.7 watts

This, as you can see, is a huge difference in clean power.

Therefore, as far as room and chair shaking ability which you stated was particularly impressive, the numbers just don't add up.

It is my belief that you were doing the M25 and injustice by pairing it with the Denon and I still struggle with the idea that someone would prefer an AVR600 over the lab-proven clean power of the M25.

I have no argument regarding the pre-amp side of things as I do not believe the Denon to be a very musical unit. It does boast an enormous feature count - most of which I have no want for. But what I did not foresee is that it would be so poor as to bring the M25 into contention with an all-in-one. Obviously, with your chosen speakers, you are particularly impressed by the Arcam and this is great; it is the goal after-all. However, at this point, I'd be pointing the figure at the Denon and not the brilliance of the Arcam for the perceived performance jump. All the best.

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I live for the day when i can reliably buy hifi based on specs. Would make life a lot easier.

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I live for the day when i can reliably buy hifi based on specs. Would make life a lot easier.

They're not manufacturer specifications. They're measurements. As in; no fluff, no BS, just the truth in the form of recorded data. Do you want me to draw it for you in crayon?

If you were paying attention and not chiming in with useless crap seemingly at random, you would have realised that in my last post I wrote the following:

Go out, listen, find what you like, buy it and be happy.

I never said anything about buying hifi based on specs - quite the contrary. I was simply pointing out that the two had been lab tested and that the M25 had come out signifficatnly ahead as far as clean power is concerned - which it should.

As long as Milesey is happy, that's all that counts - and it seems as though he's having fun thus far.

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Himey I think hifi based on specs is a good start.With age and loss of hearing Go out, listen, find what you like, buy it and be happy makes a lot of sense.Making use of GTG is GREAT to hear so many different opinions of the same setup.....

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