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Mining Man

Your Opinion Of Toshiba

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It's only been half an hour, but I already sense some bitterness towards Toshiba, and their failing to better market their product.

A few days ago, I made this observation:

Would it be fair to say, that BD is the superior technology, HD DVD is the superior implementation, and BD is the superior marketing?

Looks like we got the wrong 2 out of 3, Meatloaf... :(

Before tonight's announcement, generally, almost everyone agrees that Toshiba's implementation of HD DVD was near flawless.

Why would they execute BD players any less succesfully?

Is anyone considering a boycott of Toshiba BD product?

I say: BRING 'EM ON!!!

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Not considering any boycott, never supported corporations before, don't support or hate any now. I think they have developed a great product and then had no clue how to bring it to market successfully. Oh well, I am not going to change that, and getting bitter at them for theiir failing is this is pointless.

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It's only been half an hour, but I already sense some bitterness towards Toshiba, and their failing to better market their product.

A few days ago, I made this observation:

Before tonight's announcement, generally, almost everyone agrees that Toshiba's implementation of HD DVD was near flawless.

Why would they execute BD players any less succesfully?

Is anyone considering a boycott of Toshiba BD product?

I say: BRING 'EM ON!!!

I can't see why anyone would want to boycott Toshiba, if Warner had of sided with HD DVD exclusively instead of blu-ray we wouldn't be where we are today. You can't blame a hardware manufacturer for trying to sell their product. I rolled the early adopter dice and went HD DVD, I knew the risks as much as anyone else, you won't see me crying over spilt milk.

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I have used Toshiba DVD players for years (SD-9000, SD-900e, SD-9500). They made some of the worlds best players. I'm a little peeved with how Toshiba Australia (Castel) handled HD-DVD. Life goes on i guess.

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I'm not bitter at Toshiba.

I will mourn the loss of the fully Region Free format, and the issues that now brings to my future HDM plans.

It was inevitable following the Warner's domino effect but I have a large degree of contempt for those who saw fit to try force the issue in recent weeks and removed the opportunity for Toshiba and it's partners to exit with some grace and dignity.

I for one was hoping for a Toshiba combo player but it doesn't sound like it. Looks like I'll try and pick up a HD-E1 or HD-EP10 cheap and a couple of HD-DVD/BD combo drives for my PCs.

If there is a Toshiba BD player that meets all my requirements then I'll be happy to purchase it....

* Well built

* Decodes all audio except DTS HD MA

* Bitstreams all HD audio including DTS HD MA

* Region free for SD

* Good PQ

* HDMI v1.3

* Ideally Profile 2.0 but if not at least 1.1 with an Ethernet port

* Can update firmware via disc or via net.

* Good manufacturer support

* Price Point around AU$1000

Optional

* SD upscaling (covered by my HD-XE1 and Oppo but you can never have too much)

* Analogue multichannel outs

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I think throughout this war people have bagged Sony as being manipulative and dishonest. (Which they probably are) but I think the actions of Toshiba have been just as dishonest and manipulative. (reduced priced players, recently stating continual support to hd dvd etc)

basically big corporations are all the same. Its all about money.

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As you say MM , Wrong 2 out of 3.

If they make a good Blu-ray player at the right price then I would definitley buy from them. Their HD-DVD product was excellent as was most of their response to correcting issues in a timely manner.

Bryan

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I think throughout this war people have bagged Sony as being manipulative and dishonest. (Which they probably are) but I think the actions of Toshiba have been just as dishonest and manipulative. (reduced priced players, recently stating continual support to hd dvd etc)

basically big corporations are all the same. Its all about money.

Fair enough to have this opinion, but not really the direction I want to see this thread go. :(

Cheers. :)

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When i talk to my mate about HD formats the one major thing he has to say is that he saw nothing about HD-DVD and saw everything about BR. He owned neither but loved my HD-DVD's. It was marketing he thought that Toshiba lacked the most. I'd have to agree.

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Fair enough to have this opinion, but not really the direction I want to see this thread go. :(

Cheers. :)

I'll respectfully add a +1 to D Trains post.

That being said I wouldn't let it affect any potential future purchase of a decent product at the decent price

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I may not be entirely happy with Toshiba's effort in this war but they made an incredible HD DVD player SD upscaler in the XE1, if they make a profile 2.0 BD player to the same high standard of the XE1 I'll get one for sure.

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I don't think anyone can blame Toshiba, they put up good effort considering where they stood. The BR camp had a lot going for it, top CE manufacturers, a better margin for retailers and of course the PS3, "buy the PS3 now and a stand alone later"

One could not rationally except Toshiba to have kept on fighting considering the direction the HD market was heading.

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From the marketing aspect, there was only one HD-DVD manufactures and exposure for BluRay from many and of course the tour de force the PS3 every PS2 owner automatically wanted one. It was a level of exposure Toshiba coulds not match.

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My opinion of Toshiba hasn't changed, the Xe-1 is a fine player in all regards. I will continue to collect HD-DVD as long as they are available, both locally, and from overseas.

Yes, overseas, because that is a choice I have with HD-DVD that I don't have with BR. So tonight, as I sit down to watch American Gangster or The Killing of Jesse James in HD-DVD, I think about the BR player that I will, one day, purchase and wonder what Sony will let me watch...My opinion of Sony hasn't changed either. :wacko:

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... the tour de force the PS3 every PS2 owner automatically wanted one. It was a level of exposure Toshiba coulds not match.

That's another conversation I'd like to have with you. :)

The frenzy for the PS3 on gaming specs alone by the PS2 faithful was incredible!! And in spite of what the PS3 sales figures did for overall BD attachment rates, the studios were still on a winner with the format backed mostly, by a gaming machine bought for gaming.

Whether BD triumphs over DVD or not doesn't matter. In decades to come, the inclusion of a BD drive in the PS3 on the back of the PS2's success, will be constantly referred to in Marketing 101. Brilliant.

Another time, another thread. I could be here all night. :blush:

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That's another conversation I'd like to have with you. :)

The frenzy for the PS3 on gaming specs alone by the PS2 faithful was incredible!! And in spite of what the PS3 sales figures did for overall BD attachment rates, the studios were still on a winner with the format backed mostly, by a gaming machine bought for gaming.

Whether BD triumphs over DVD or not doesn't matter. In decades to come, the inclusion of a BD drive in the PS3 on the back of the PS2's success, will be constantly referred to in Marketing 101. Brilliant.

Another time, another thread. I could be here all night. :blush:

And yet it was seen as possibly a bad move at the time. Just goes to show lots of analysts just review after the fact, very few run businesses successfully and is why they are just analysts.

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If I was a Toshiba shareholder (and I'm not), I would be pissed that they lost, but I would have been more pissed if they'd continued flogging a dead horse for a few more months. Better to pull the pin now, rather than in a year.

I'm not sure why anyone could be annoyed with them. Like any business would have done, they were just trying to recover some costs with some cheap HD players before dumping it altogether. Honestly, what did we expect them to do ?

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It was marketing he thought that Toshiba lacked the most. I'd have to agree.

Absolutely have to agree on this - How can a format that was region free, cheaper to produce, cheaper to purchase, constantly on Amazon sales, cheaper and complete Hardware profile from day one and had Universal, Paramount/Dreamworks and at one time Warner - go down like a bonfire?

Lack of clever Marketing by Toshiba and no gaming console to "hide" a HD drive in while still calling it a gaming machine. You have to give Kudos to Sony - they BLED heavily for BR because they had all their HD eggs in the one basket with the PS3. Lord only knows how much money Sony and the BDA lost initially to keep BR going. Now Toshiba couldn't keep going on because as everyone knows - the majority of studios went with BR and the major retailers completely shunned HD DVD. They chose - Party over - no matter how good the HD DVD format was/is.

It all came down to one thing - 10,000,000 BR players (90-95% PS3) to 1,000,000 HD DVD players - the latter camp can never out buy the former in terms of discs - although ~$180 million was spent on BR discs and ~$90 million on HD DVDs according to the latest figures I found on the web.

But - what went "wrong" with the Warner "deal" with HD DVD? They were completely caught with their HD-pants down at CES08!

I purchased both formats because I am interested in the movies per se - now I am concerned of no longer being able to get region free discs and at cheaper prices from the US :(

Someone really screwed things up at HD DVD land - it is all for naught now - unless some studios will continue to release HD DVDs around the world.

For JP - they would have been totally unaware of WTF was going down with all this HD stuff.

Sony PS3 1080p HDMI 1.3 Full HD Bravia - Toshiba had no answer until it was too late.

It was fascinating to have been a part of this debate (mainly on WP!) and even more so to have been part of a format that will "disappear" soon.

What swayed Warner? Price of GAS they say :rolleyes:

cheers,

Silkman

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Toshiba even after this debacle couldnt suck more than 'the one and only'

Edited by Large

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I may not be entirely happy with Toshiba's effort in this war but they made an incredible HD DVD player SD upscaler in the XE1, if they make a profile 2.0 BD player to the same high standard of the XE1 I'll get one for sure.
That's the spirit.

If they can make such a good HD-DVD player maybe they can come out with a BD player to rival the expensive crap being generated by everyone else.

Their track record (at building quality gear) is a proven one I reckon.

Their marketing track record is abysmal but c'est la vie.

Loss of HD-DVD is very dissapointing but I knew what I was getting in too.

The media is fantastic and it's not going to stop playing.

I'll probably pick up some disks.

Already bid for some of Al's.

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If I was a Toshiba shareholder (and I'm not), I would be pissed that they lost, but I would have been more pissed if they'd continued flogging a dead horse for a few more months. Better to pull the pin now, rather than in a year.

I'm not sure why anyone could be annoyed with them. Like any business would have done, they were just trying to recover some costs with some cheap HD players before dumping it altogether. Honestly, what did we expect them to do ?

Well I think it was totally dishonest of Toshiba to lead consumers on in believing the format still had a future.

That is what lies are......deceitfulness and they did it to minimize their losses at the expense of their consumers. Never mind whether they discounted their players, they deceived people into paying good money for them knowing full well they were going to dump the format.

Some may take a philosophical approach to it all, but how do you think people who do not frequent these forums must feel about the news ?

C.M

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my opinion of them hasnt changed - all companies do this - its disapointing, Yes.

I am more pissed that the BDA have been allowed to get away with the whole Profile mess - thats more anti-consumer than what Toshiba have done. I may purchase the movies on BR now , but I certainly wont be forking out for a Profile 1 or 1.1 player within six months of each other before 2.0.

I also think that post Warner Toshiba may have thought they still had a chance if they could flood the market and get the adoption rate up - that obviously didnt occure because they didnt bother to market it despite their announced increased marketing focus.

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To be honest, I was never a great fan of Toshiba's HD DVD players and it was one of the reasons why I preferred BD to HD DVD (the other being lack of studio support, which never numbered more than 3 major studios). If other manufacturers had come out with HD DVD players, I would have been more supportive of the format long term, but restricting hardware to one CE manufacturer (Onkyo's clone player doesn't really count) made it look like a half-hearted attempt at competing with Blu-Ray.

Edited by Julian L

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... but restricting hardware to one CE manufacturer (Onkyo's clone player doesn't really count) made it look like a half-hearted attempt at competing with Blu-Ray.

On the weight of all evidence, it WAS a half-hearted attempt at competing with Blu-ray. ;)

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On the weight of all evidence, it WAS a half-hearted attempt at competing with Blu-ray. ;)

But I guess as they hit the market first and could see Blu-Ray wasn't ready, probably thought they had a year or two up their sleeve. Reality is they could have actually still marketed the fact Blu-Ray wasn't ready and used fear tactics, but they didn't get dirty enough early enough.

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