6 Way Multi Switch

[extremeaudiowa]

Hey Guys,

Does anyone know where I can get a 6 way multi switch for use with foxtel. I am smart wiring my house and putting in Network, Phone FTA and Foxtel Leads every where. Now I am putting in 3 Foxtel enabled Rooms Master Bedroom, Family Room & home Theatre all dual runs so I can have IQ or IQHD when it arrives so I need a 6 way multi switch so these can all be connected. I want to make sure all are connected so if I decided to take my foxtel box from the bedroom into the family room for a while I could etc etc etc. (I know your not suppose to do that)

The second part to this question is if I just run all the wires etc will foxtel put in the switch since I am already connected with an IQ and a standard box at the moment will the connect it up so it works on all ports since it is technically on 3 outlets but they are all IQ capable. That way I am not going to have to pay for the multiswitch

Currenty I have got the splitter amplifier for the FTA and don’t want to use the Foxtel down the FTA cable method I am running sperate cables for Foxtel, FTA, network and phone around the house.

Any replies would be great

And brands / places to buy them

Thanks heaps

[cyril]

As to Foxtels policy on supplying switches, maybe others know, however <a href="http://www.adigitalife.com/product_info.php?product_id=235&cat_link=digital_satellite.html&resultpage=2"" target="_blank">here</a> is a link to an approved switch.

Cyril

Edited February 4, 2008 by cyril

[mtv]

cyril,

The link wasn't working when I checked.

[Matt-R]

cyril,

The link wasn't working when I checked.

http://www.adigitalife.com/product_info.ph...resultpage=2%22

[extremeaudiowa]

http://www.adigitalife.com/product_info.ph...resultpage=2%22

$170 OUCH!

Will foxtel provide one if we are connecting 2 boxes and all the wiring is already in the house

[Sidor]

$170 OUCH!

Will foxtel provide one if we are connecting 2 boxes and all the wiring is already in the house

do not think Foxtel will provide ....

not sure about satellite but on Foxtel cable they supply amplifier only if you are getting 4 or more boxes. Sometimes if you are getting 3 boxes and you are paying for additional point you will get one for free ...

if you want just 2 boxes and you will pay for two additional point you may also get one fore free but it is really up to the installer ..

Foxtel is paying sheet money for the installation of these amplifiers and I because they are expensive many installers just hate installing them at all ...

another thing is even if you get Foxtel to supply multiswitch for free with 2 boxes and two points you can end up with only 4 active points - not 6 as you want... I would suggest to talk nicely to the installer when you get Foxtel connected ...

Edited February 4, 2008 by Sidor

[llama_boi]

Foxtel should supply a multiswitch if you have an iQ and a standard box as that would require three active ports (2 for the iQ). It could be either a 4 way or 8 way multiswitch depending on what the tech has in his van. They dont pay for them so they shouldn't care either way.

I say 'should' above because foxtel have also started using quad LNBs in domestic installs recently and that is another option the installer might take (though the choice would depend also on how you do the prewire cabling)

[chatham]

I can't say I've ever seen a Fox/Austar insalled 6-way multiswitch, 4-way and 8-way yes, but not 6.

[Silent Bob]

http://www.adigitalife.com/product_info.ph...resultpage=2%22

I'm doing some research on the best cabling setup for a new house I'm going to start building later this year, can some explain how these multswitches work, from the look of the diagram on that page you have 3 inputs, satellite V & H and the antenna for free to air, however only one cable running to each TV. Doesn't make sense to me I would think the signals would all interefere with each other.

Also I have noticed on the foxtel site they recommend have four cables going from the satellite to central location and 2 cables to each tv, can somebody explain the logic of that.

Thanks.

[st3v3]

you have 3 inputs, satellite V & H and the antenna for free to air, however only one cable running to each TV. Doesn't make sense to me

You're right. For foxtel, you would have two cables running from the switch to each TV. If you're using a 3 input switch, then you can put a diplexer on the TV end of one of the two cables, and split the signal into FTA and SAT. This is what I have at home.

Alternatively, you could run 3 cables to each TV, and keep FTA and SAT separate. (ie. use a SAT-only switch, and run your antenna into a splitter and/or amp before distributing it)

Just checked the diagram linked in previous posts, and the only difference really is that you treat the Foxtel iQ as 2 sat boxes in the diagram, as it has two independent inputs.

If you're running new cabling in a new house, and want lowest possible loss and interference, I would still consider running 3 cables to each point (ie 2 Sat and 1 FTA), and keep the signals separated.

st3v3

Edited January 8, 2010 by st3v3

[Hosko]

Foxtel will supply multiswitches when they do the install. All you need to do is make sure you have all the leads run to a central location in the roof, with a bit of extra cable on the end. Then when the Foxtel tech comes to do the install they will terminate the cables in the roof and install a multiswitch.

Don't go buying one yourself you will just be wasting money as you will get one at no extra cost when the install is done.

[st3v3]

Foxtel will supply multiswitches when they do the install.

Hosko,

Not being in a Foxtel install area, I'm not sure what they install, but would it be fair to hazard a guess that the multiswitch would be SAT only, and not include Terrestrial antenna input like the one mentioned above?

[davmel]

I'm doing some research on the best cabling setup for a new house I'm going to start building later this year, can some explain how these multswitches work, from the look of the diagram on that page you have 3 inputs, satellite V & H and the antenna for free to air, however only one cable running to each TV. Doesn't make sense to me I would think the signals would all interefere with each other.

The FTA frequencies operate from 50-860 MHz.

The sat IF frequencies from your LNB operate in the 950-2150 MHz range so they don't interfere.

The switch will output either the horizontal or vertical polarity signals in teh 950-2150 MHz band based on the voltage the STB tuner feeds up the cable to the switch/LNB. 18V for horizontal and 13V for vertical.

Therefore nothing interferes on each output. Some multiswitches even turn off the FTA TV band output when a DC volage is present to reduce noise immunity, and when no voltage is present the sat IF band is deactivated for the same reason.

Also I have noticed on the foxtel site they recommend have four cables going from the satellite to central location and 2 cables to each tv, can somebody explain the logic of that.

Eventually Foxtel will end up installing quad output universal LNB's when more sats are added. So not only will the polarity difference provide 2 options that need different cables but a 22kHz tone needs to be sent from each STB tuner to select the other frequency band, so a total of 4 cables need to go to each multiswitch (for independent access) and 4 cables to each 4 tuner STB, i.e. the IQ2 or future boxes with 4 tuners.

Therefore you ideally need 4 cables from the dish to the multiswitch (plus another one from the multiswitch or to a separate FTA splitter) and then either 5 cables to each IQ2 STB location or 3 cables to each 2 tuner (IQ1) location if you want to be truly future proof for the next ~15 years.

But you'd do that only if cabling in the future would be very difficult, otherwise just install the minimum number now for it to work and leave it until the future sat expansion occurs.

[Hosko]

Hosko,

Not being in a Foxtel install area, I'm not sure what they install, but would it be fair to hazard a guess that the multiswitch would be SAT only, and not include Terrestrial antenna input like the one mentioned above?

Yes but say your wanting to connect an My Star/iQ and also watch over the air TV. You are going to have to run 3 cables from the multiswitch to each outlet, 1 for Horizontal sat in the Pay TV box, 1 for vertical sat into the Pay TV box and 1 for terrestrial TV.

The OP said he was cabling for 3 rooms, personally if I was cabling a new house I would want to cable every room to be able to have every service. You may not be using a service at the moment but down the track you might decide you want say Foxtel/Austar in the 3rd room and its a lot easier if the cables are already run. You don't have to have them connected for now as long as they are run the upgrade will be simple. So lets say that we are cabling the 3 rooms this is how I would do it.

I wouldn't use the $129.95 3x8 multiswitch because its expensive and you don't get a whole lot of benefit out of it. I would keep the FTA and Foxtel signals separate, it will turn out much cheaper. For FTA I would either use a 3 way splitter or if its a big house and the signal strength is low 4 output distribution amplifier. The splitter will be less then 10 bucks and the dissy amp would be around 60 bucks. The OP says he already has the splitter so this is no cost. From the antenna you would connect a quad shield RG6 cable with F connectors to the splitter or dissy amp input. Then connect any of the outputs to each of the wall plates, I'd be using a wall plate which has 3 f connectors on it. One will be designated for FTA the other two will be for Foxtel, some come labelled others don't. The ones that don't you can either label yourself or just remember FTA is on the left or right and keep it constant. From the remaining two f connectors on the wall plates run RG6 cable to the roof cavity or next to where you have installed the terrestrial splitter/dissy amp. You should have six cables coming to this point, just loop some tape around them so they are in a neat bunch.

Now when the house is ready phone Foxtel and tell them to come and install the new service. Even if you supply your own multiswitch they will charge you the exact same amount for the install. As you are already pay for the install you might as well let them use their own equipment and save some money. If you only want 2 outlets with STB's they may only use a quad lnb, however when the installer notices that you have already run cables to a central location and saved them around an hours work from a standard install you can ask them nicely to install a 2x8 multiswitch. They will do this if they have one available in the box, mention that you want to be able to move a stb into the 3rd room occasionally.

Now you have FTA terrestrial signal going to all 3 rooms and will eventually have horizontal and vertical sat signals running to every room. You have saved a fair chunk of coin two.

Problems with the 3x8 approach.

First major problem is you will probably want to future proof your house. The way Pay TV is moving is the standard STB will soon be an iQ/My Star. That means that every location that is to be cabled will need 2 cables run for the horizontal and vertical signals from the LNB. As I said before I personally would cable every location for pay TV and FTA. The reason being RG6 quad shield cable is around 30cents/m, which is really peanuts. It will be a thousand times easier to cable it now then to not cable it and later decide you really want Foxtel in that third room. Even if you never use its only going to cost you around $10 more (or free if you would have had left over cable anyway). I'd rather spend $10 a make sure my life is easy.

So your going to run 2 cables for the Sat pay TV and an extra cable for FTA tv, that totals to 3. Times that by 3 locations and that equals 9 cables all up. You would need a bigger 3x multiswitch which is going to run you up even more cash.

The only advantage you get from a 3x multiswitch is any of the outputs can either be FTA or get a signal from the dish. Big deal as mentioned already for a Foxtel install your going to be having to run 2 cables to each location for sat and an extra cable for FTA. The 3x multiswitch will allow you to plug your iQ into two of the outlets and your TV into the 3rd. Is anybody out there willing to tell me its worth $130 not to have to label the face plate with FTA and Sat on two of the connectors?? No its a complete was of money for this setup, especially when you already have a splitter and Foxtel will supply the 2x multiswitch at no additional charge. You are basicly pissing away 130 dollars.

[davmel]

Problems with the 3x8 approach.

First major problem is you will probably want to future proof your house. The way Pay TV is moving is the standard STB will soon be an iQ/My Star. That means that every location that is to be cabled will need 2 cables run for the horizontal and vertical signals from the LNB.

That should read AT LEAST 2 cables. It's only a matter of time now before the 4 tuner IQ2's and future 4 tuner STB's require 4 cables for each of their 4 inputs.

It would be reckless to suggest a future proof solution that isn't going to handle the changes expected in the next 5-10 years.

[asdsa]

That should read AT LEAST 2 cables. It's only a matter of time now before the 4 tuner IQ2's and future 4 tuner STB's require 4 cables for each of their 4 inputs.

It would be reckless to suggest a future proof solution that isn't going to handle the changes expected in the next 5-10 years.

I can't see Foxtel putting a satellite into orbit which is in a different direction then C1 and D3, this will be the only instance that they would have to do this and it would involve having 2 dishes or 1 dish with a multi lnb holder which both would connect to the STU.

This will only be done once there are two many satellites for the area C1 and D3 are in which will be more than 25 years away and by the time that there are to many satellites in the one location IPTV will be the main feed for our Foxtel service.

Thank's

[davmel]

I can't see Foxtel putting a satellite into orbit which is in a different direction then C1 and D3, this will be the only instance that they would have to do this and it would involve having 2 dishes or 1 dish with a multi lnb holder which both would connect to the STU.

Sorry to be the one to tell you that yes, Foxtel will have a 3rd and possibly a 4th sat in the same 156degE orbital slot as C1/D3 in the future. That's why if you look at the official install guides for MDU's there are 4 cables required from the LNB through the entire multiswitch cascade. Currently C1/D3 use the Ku high band, but the next 2 sats will use the Ku low band which will require universal LNB's that use a 22kHz tone to switch between the low and high Ku band. Therefore you need 4 cables to each 4 tuner outlet and 4 cables throughout the multiswitch cascade so you can have all options of 13 or 18V DC and 22kHz tone (on or off) from each tuner.

It's already done overseas where there are 3+ sats in the same orbital slot and given that most of the vertical transponders on C1/D3 will be used for the upcoming FTA transmission service and the horizontals are close to being fully utilised we can expect a 3rd sat in as little as 5 years time (before the lifetime of C1 expires and is replaced itself).

This will only be done once there are two many satellites for the area C1 and D3 are in which will be more than 25 years away and by the time that there are to many satellites in the one location IPTV will be the main feed for our Foxtel service.

IPTV is a long time from being the primary delivery service and has so many QoS issues to surmount (especially if Foxtel isn't the direct ISP), but your estimate of 25 years is just ridiculous. Look at the massive growth in channels in only the last 5 years and the horizontals on C1/D3 have already been close to being filled only 2months after launch. People want more channels, especially HD so the demand will be there to launch another sat soon. If subscriber penetration reaches 45+% it would certainly be afffordable to do so and it's only a matter of time before that is reached.

Plus don't forget that there are other companies and services that could also fund more sat launches for the Australian/NZ market, especially for Australia wide satellite radio (L band DAB+ services etc) and more joint military sat usage.

[asdsa]

That's why if you look at the official install guides for MDU's there are 4 cables required from the LNB through the entire multiswitch cascade.

You do not need four co-ax cable to each point, you need four from the LNB to the multi-switch then only two from the multi-switch to each wall outlet.

The person who started this thread wanted to know whether four co-ax cable to each wall was neccasery and i'm saying NO.

[davmel]

You do not need four co-ax cable to each point, you need four from the LNB to the multi-switch then only two from the multi-switch to each wall outlet.

The person who started this thread wanted to know whether four co-ax cable to each wall was neccasery and i'm saying NO.

You'd only be correct if you're wiring for the current service. Once more sats are launched you will need 4 cables to each IQ2.

So unless you want to rewire your home in ~ 5years time then you'll need 4 cables to every location you might want to use an IQ2.

It would be incorrect to advise people who want to future proof their cabling installation to only use 2 cables unless they are absolutely sure they are not going to use a 4 tuner device later this decade.

[asdsa]

You'd only be correct if you're wiring for the current service. Once more sats are launched you will need 4 cables to each IQ2.

So unless you want to rewire your home in ~ 5years time then you'll need 4 cables to every location you might want to use an IQ2.

It would be incorrect to advise people who want to future proof their cabling installation to only use 2 cables unless they are absolutely sure they are not going to use a 4 tuner device later this decade.

You are now going to get people to waste money on unnecessary co-ax cable, foxtel has not outlined anywhere what you are saying, the only reason the IQ2 has 4 signal inputs on the satellite variant is because Pace designed t to work with other satellite subscription services suck as sky uk, and it would end up cheaper for foxtel to not have the design changed but to just install an internal multi-switch, which is HARDWIRED.

Quick question, do you work in the cabling industries and just want to promote people buying and wasting time installing unnecessary cabling?

[davmel]

You are now going to get people to waste money on unnecessary co-ax cable, foxtel has not outlined anywhere what you are saying

Perhaps you should do some research:

http://www.foxtel.com.au/cms/groups/webcon...nt/p_016355.pdf

Page 4 clearly states that 2 lateral cables are minimum and 4 are preferred to each outlet.

Page 8 clearly states that 4 cables are required from the LNB to each multiswitch in the cascade and AT LEAST 2 cables but 4 optional for future services.

Page 32 clearly states that the labelling for each of the 4 cable feeds are: V/Low, V/High, H/Low, H/High which is how you label a system when you have plans to use both the high and low Ku band in both polarities. At present C1/D3 only utilise both polarities of the high Ku band, but when the next 2 sats go up they will use the low Ku band hence the need for FOUR cables.

Foxtel wouldn't go around wasting everyone's time and money insisting on 5 wire multiswitches and cascade taps is there wasn't a need for it in the future!

the only reason the IQ2 has 4 signal inputs on the satellite variant is because Pace designed it to work with other satellite subscription services suck as sky uk, and it would end up cheaper for foxtel to not have the design changed but to just install an internal multi-switch, which is HARDWIRED.

LOL. Foxtel chose the exact same configuration Pace unit as Sky UK because Foxtel will eventually use the Ku low band when the 3rd and possibly 4th sat goes up just like the scenario with Sky UK.

Have a look at the Sky UK frequency band:

http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html

Their 3rd and 4th sats have transponders in the 10700 to 11700 MHz band (i.e. the low Ku band) which can't possibly be sent down the same cable at the same time as channels in the high Ku band (11700 to 12750 MHz) as it exceeds the bandwidth of the IF band that sat tuners receive on (950-2150 MHz). Hence you need TWO sets of cables for the low band (hor & vert) and another TWO cables for the high band (hor and vert).

Now for a 4 tuner device like the IQ2, if you only had 2 cables connected you would lock out from the internal multiswitch 2 of the potential 4 band/polarity options at any one time. That's why the IQ2 and the Sky UK equivalent magically has 4 inputs so when the platform expands to the full potential of the Ku band spectrum you have a device that can receive everything without conflicts!

Quick question, do you work in the cabling industries and just want to promote people buying and wasting time installing unnecessary cabling?

No, I'm an engineer that gets frustrated every time I hear someone giving incorrect advice based on a lack of understanding in sat comms that will cost someone time and money in the future to do extra unnecessary wiring reconfigurations that could have been avoided if they were given the correct advice in the first place!

[Hosko]

LOL. Foxtel chose the exact same configuration Pace unit as Sky UK because Foxtel will eventually use the Ku low band when the 3rd and possibly 4th sat goes up just like the scenario with Sky UK.

Have a look at the Sky UK frequency band:

http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html

Thats slightly embarrassing.

Your correct in saying that Foxtel use Pace's unit however the Sky HD+ PVR is made by Thomson.

Thomson HD+ PVR

Pace iQ2 PVR

The two don't look anything like each other. For the record the iQ2 is a far superior PVR

Edited January 10, 2010 by Hosko

[davmel]

Thats slightly embarrassing.

For you maybe when you find random images on 3rd party sites....

Your correct in saying that Foxtel use Pace's unit however the Sky HD+ PVR is made by Thomson.

Thomson HD+ PVR

Sorry, but that's a picture of a Pace TDS850NB Sky dual tuner variant:

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...D=DSAT-TDS850NB

Pace iQ2 PVR

The two don't look anything like each other. For the record the iQ2 is a far superior PVR

That's a picture of a Pace TDS850NF used by Foxtel:

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...D=DSAT-TDS850NF

Yes, the Foxtel version is superior only in the number of tuners but the processing engine and almost everything else is the same.

Which just happens to be the same variant as used by Multichoice in South Africa (TDS850iMC):

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...=DSAT-TDS850IMC

And the same variant used by Sky NZ (TDS850NNZ):

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...=DSAT-TDS850NNZ

It's expected that Sky UK will soon start to use the even more superior energy efficient 860 series with 4 tuners:

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...tID=DSAT-TDS860

I hope you realise that Sky UK has been in bed with Pace for a long time. They have no intentions of using the bug ridden Thomson crap any time soon.

Multichoice already uses their variant to get dual cable feeds from the 2 different sat slots (36 and 68.5degE) they use, so all 4 tuners and inputs are used.

As for Foxtel, there are only 2 spare transponders left with the new dual sat configuration that Foxtel have rights to and it's only a matter of time before more sats that use the Ku low band are deployed. When that happens it will be mandatory for a 4 cable feed to be used with the IQ2.

Edited January 10, 2010 by davmel

[asdsa]

For you maybe when you find random images on 3rd party sites....

Sorry, but that's a picture of a Pace TDS850NB Sky dual tuner variant:

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...D=DSAT-TDS850NB

That's a picture of a Pace TDS850NF used by Foxtel:

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...D=DSAT-TDS850NF

Yes, the Foxtel version is superior only in the number of tuners but the processing engine and almost everything else is the same.

Which just happens to be the same variant as used by Multichoice in South Africa (TDS850iMC):

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...=DSAT-TDS850IMC

And the same variant used by Sky NZ (TDS850NNZ):

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...=DSAT-TDS850NNZ

It's expected that Sky UK will soon start to use the even more superior energy efficient 860 series with 4 tuners:

http://www.pace.com/corporate/products/pro...tID=DSAT-TDS860

I hope you realise that Sky UK has been in bed with Pace for a long time. They have no intentions of using the bug ridden Thomson crap any time soon.

Multichoice already uses their variant to get dual cable feeds from the 2 different sat slots (36 and 68.5degE) they use, so all 4 tuners and inputs are used.

As for Foxtel, there are only 2 spare transponders left with the new dual sat configuration that Foxtel have rights to and it's only a matter of time before more sats that use the Ku low band are deployed. When that happens it will be mandatory for a 4 cable feed to be used with the IQ2.

the link you gave is for multi-dwelling units and comercial property, where as the residential pre-wiring guide only asks for 2 cables to each outlet.

[Hosko]

I hope you realise that Sky UK has been in bed with Pace for a long time. They have no intentions of using the bug ridden Thomson crap any time soon.

I didn't know they started using Pace boxes but they launched their HD service with Thomson only PVR's. If you go to www1.sky.com/HDGuide/ and look under "Further Information" you'll be able to download manuals for their Thomson, Pace and Samsung PVR's.

Your comment that "They have no intentions of using the bug ridden Thomson crap any time soon." is interested considering they have been using them for a very long time.