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Pioneer Kuro - 720p Or 1080p Model ?

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Hi there all.

Ok, it's a long story but after a lot of hassle I'm replacing my Pio506 with a shiny new KURO 50".

Do I spend the extra $1k to get the full HD 1080p model, or should I just settle for the 508xda 720p model ?

Apart from the resolution, are there any other differences i.e. picture adjustments, contrast ratios, panel menu, features etc ?

The most important feature is good, non-grainy DVD playback and so far from what I've seen almost all 720p panels handle DVD better than 1080p panels - I have found that the 1080p panels show a lot of dithering and grain in dark scenes etc. What have other Pio fans found ?

Edited by t1000

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I have had a 508XD since early November and recently upgraded to the LX508 (two days ago). I believe the picture on the LX508 is slightly better than the 508XD. I am not sure if it is worth the extra $1,200, but at least I know I have the highest resolution currently available. If you are going to play games, I would say get the LX, as you normally sit closer.

The cricket last night was awesome on the LX. I think the processing and movement is better on the LX, but that could be me trying to justify the upgrade.

The blacks are slightly better on the LX, but I don't think they are significantly so.

As far as normal DVD goes, they are both similar. The LX is better than the XD for HD material, especially BluRay and HD-DVD.

I hope this helps.

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I agree with braddles, although i've never owned the XDA version. The cricket did look fantastic.

I prefer the look of the LX more than the XDA, unless you don't intend to use the supplied speakers in which case they'll look pretty similar.

There have been comparisons made in the UK forums and the general consensus was that the LX was better in lots of ways, but theyre may be some placebo effect going on, justfying the extra cost.

It does have better resolution, better blacks, better processing, and some say better colour reproduction.

I'm still happy that i bought the LX, and that was when there was $2k difference. If it's down to $1-1.2k and you have the money, then go for it i say.

Good luck. I'm sure you won't be dissapointed whichever way you go.

Bob

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Decision made.. I went for the 508XDA - the 720p panel. I picked it up for an ultra-sweet price of $3780... the LX would have run me at least $2000 more. I'll have my eye on a Pio 1080p panel once the 60" range becomes more affordable. Until then I'm perfectly happy with a 720p panel.. especially this one.

All I can say having been a proud owner of the Pio506hd is that the hype surrounding the KURO range is absolutely, positively CORRECT. The blacks are absolutely gorgeous.. colour and processing is brilliant.. far superior to my 506HD which is no mean feat in itself because the 506 was exceptional enough !!

I have the contrast and brightness dialled right down atm but I jacked it up to take a look at the PQ and it's jsut plain ****ing awesome.

For some reason I can't get my PS3 to display video over HDMI to the panel.. so I can't check out BluRay as ye :(

1000

Edited by t1000

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a pedantic, but nevertheless technically correct point ...

the 508XDA is not a 720p panel

the pixel count is 1365 x 768, so theoretically it is a 768p panel if you are talking about native resolution

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For some reason I can't get my PS3 to display video over HDMI to the panel.. so I can't check out BluRay as ye :(

1000

Check to make sure HDMI is enabled on the 508XD. This should solve the problem.

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where did you get it from - sounds like a great price!

JB Hi Fi.. the old ticket price was $5100. It's probably below cost price I would image.

Solved the PS3 issue by rolling back to Composite, reseting the all defaults across the board and re-enabling HDMI. Wierd

Cheers

CB

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Decision made.. I went for the 508XDA - the 720p panel. I picked it up for an ultra-sweet price of $3780... the LX would have run me at least $1300 more. I'll have my eye on a Pio 1080p panel once the 60" range becomes more affordable. Until then I'm perfectly happy with a 720p panel.. especially this one.

All I can say having been a proud owner of the Pio506hd is that the hype surrounding the KURO range is absolutely, positively CORRECT. The blacks are absolutely gorgeous.. colour and processing is brilliant.. far superior to my 506HD which is no mean feat in itself because the 506 was exceptional enough !!

I have the contrast and brightness dialled right down atm but I jacked it up to take a look at the PQ and it's jsut plain ****ing awesome.

For some reason I can't get my PS3 to display video over HDMI to the panel.. so I can't check out BluRay as ye :(

1000

Well done mate,i think i'm just about ready to pull the trigger on one myself at a price like that.My take on the guys giving the thumbs up to spending the extra cash on the LX is it is indeed the placebo effect.Your looking at more pixels so it must be better. :wacko:.Myself i actually prefer the xda because the lx is just to dark for me sorry.The only face off for me is the xda v samsung PS50P91FDX.The xda wins on better blacks and 24p processing.The Sammy is a compelling product in it's abillity to display a full HD image.If is was going through my latest pics from the digital cam i would much rather see them on the bright sammy as the lx pio is to dark.My only choice atm is go for the xda or wait for the secong gen pana and sammy 1080's that maybe have 1080/24p support.

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Decision made.. I went for the 508XDA - the 720p panel. I picked it up for an ultra-sweet price of $3780

Damn. That is a crazy price. How low can they go? How did you wangle that deal?

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Damn. That is a crazy price. How low can they go? How did you wangle that deal?

Dude I didn't even have to haggle. Wondered into JB Hi Fi.. talked to a guy there and asked what he could do for a 508xda and he gave me the price. He mentioned that JB haven't shifted many and overall have too much stock. He is a friend of a mate of mine (casual acquantance) so I have no reason to doubt anything he told me at all. From memory.. the ticketed price was pretty close to what I paid, but I did notice the $5100 ticket underneath which I've seen as the ticket price in JB before.

So overall, no real effort on my part.. just luck.

He said that most people wonder into the store looking at panels, see the Pioneer.. mention that the picture looks too "dull"... they then turn 45 degrees and find themselves in front of a glowing bank of around 30 LCDs all in torch mode under bright light and go all "ga ga" and opt for an LCD.

Also picked up Die Hard 4 on BluRay at the same time and it is the best BLuRay transfer I've seen (even better than Casino Royale). The dark/night scenes at the start of the film look brilliant on the Kuro (especially in the apartment that gets shot up).. the disk might just prove to be a really good test of black levels and shadow detail going forward.

1000

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He said that most people wonder into the store looking at panels, see the Pioneer.. mention that the picture looks too "dull"... they then turn 45 degrees and find themselves in front of a glowing bank of around 30 LCDs all in torch mode under bright light and go all "ga ga" and opt for an LCD.

How much did the 506's go for? 6K? I've had my eye on owning a Plasma for years and until recently I've never given LCD's a second look. I still wouldn't purchase an LCD as my main tv. I've had my eye on Pio's since the 436, as I reckon Pioneer are head and shoulders above the competition. Yes, it's a subjective thing. I did look at the 1080p Panny but it disapointed. The Sammy 1080p looks ok, especially for the price and I confess the current model bravias and Aquos range also look ok but for me, it's the Pio. My eyes love it. :) I hesitated for a bit when I saw CES Pio panels but I could not abide the 48cm green tinged images of the CRT any longer.

I don't think the Pio 508 looks on paper to be a good proposition for the average person looking at upgrading their tv. It's by comparison to the competition expensive and there is a real push for 'Full HD' by sales (one HN dude said it wasn't worth hooking up BR to the 508xda as it not 'full HD'. ) - so the specs of the Pio in terms of resolution don't 'match' up against much cheaper 1080p LCD/Plasma panels.

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Decision made.. I went for the 508XDA - the 720p panel. I picked it up for an ultra-sweet price of $3780...

I'd buy one at that price. Would really appreciate a copy of the receipt if it's not too much trouble t1000. fellows54@hotmail.com thankyou

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Well done mate,i think i'm just about ready to pull the trigger on one myself at a price like that.My take on the guys giving the thumbs up to spending the extra cash on the LX is it is indeed the placebo effect.Your looking at more pixels so it must be better. :wacko:.Myself i actually prefer the xda because the lx is just to dark for me sorry.The only face off for me is the xda v samsung PS50P91FDX.The xda wins on better blacks and 24p processing.The Sammy is a compelling product in it's abillity to display a full HD image.If is was going through my latest pics from the digital cam i would much rather see them on the bright sammy as the lx pio is to dark.My only choice atm is go for the xda or wait for the secong gen pana and sammy 1080's that maybe have 1080/24p support.

I have to disagree with you on the Pio LX being dark. It may be darker than the Sonys and Samsungs in the shop, but they are almost too bright to watch at home - especially if you watch movies in the dark. I have not noticed any difference in brightness between the XD and LX at home - the settings on the LX are darker, which can make the LX appear darker in the store. When you adjust the settings, there isn't a great deal of difference between the two sets.

The 24p processing is a major positive for the Pioneers - I would not even consider a screen without this feature. For me it is more important than 720p vs 1080p.

I was watching some HD content last night on the LX and the picture was amazing. I can't remember the picture being this good on the XD. Although the XD is a great panel, the LX is definitely better. Although I do a agree that the XD is the best value for money.

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The 24p processing is a major positive for the Pioneers - I would not even consider a screen without this feature. For me it is more important than 720p vs 1080p.

I certainly agree with that.It seems crazy to me to have a blu ray player outputting 1080/24p and not have a display that matches it.Panasonic obviously have seen the light as the new models due for release later this year will support it.I spent a good 10 min looking at an LX at HN yesterday running a blu ray demo and even up real close to the screen panning shots are the smoothest i've ever seen on a plasma.Scenes from The Guardian and Pirates DMC looked spectacular.Just a little bit dark for my liking :P .I take your point about a shop enviroment being a bad place to judge brightness.I can only imagine some of those lcd screens would burn your retina's once you got them home considering how bright they are in the shop. :o

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I picked up my 508XDA for $3850, That was the benchmark until you picked it up for $3780!

Good work t1000! which JB Hifi did you pick it up from? I got mine from HN Bondi Junction.

Ive emailed my receipt to about 15 people and someone said the stores are refusing to match the price i got!

Even at the same store i got it from! So i dont know how you managed $3780!

Also on the Issue of 1080p vs 768p that everyone seems to have their panties in a knot about -

The Human Eye CANNOT Resolve 1080p Beyond 2m ON A 50" Television Screen!

This has been said many times throughout the forum!

IT'S TECHNICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewing...ml#anchor_13194

6.5 feet = 1.98m

Most people watch their TV from at least 2.5/3m away.

It's a Load of MARKETING HYPE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also those people who want the nitpicky details:

When you are watching cinemascope movies cropped to 16:9 (so it fills the panel) on blu ray, the vertical pixel resolution is NOT 1080, it's actually 800.

At least it is on Lord of the Rings, and Pirates of the Carribean..... so id say all the rest of the cinemascope bluray movies out there as well.

So it's actually stretching 800 lines over 1080 lines on a 1080p panel, where as on a 768p panel, it's only being downscaled 32 pixels.

I hope ive cleared up a few things!

Edited by morricio

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JB Hi Fi in Penrith dude.

1000

I picked up my 508XDA for $3850, That was the benchmark until you picked it up for $3780!

Good work t1000! which JB Hifi did you pick it up from? I got mine from HN Bondi Junction.

Ive emailed my receipt to about 15 people and someone said the stores are refusing to match the price i got!

Even at the same store i got it from! So i dont know how you managed $3780!

Also on the Issue of 1080p vs 768p that everyone seems to have their panties in a knot about -

The Human Eye CANNOT Resolve 1080p Beyond 2m ON A 50" Television Screen!

This has been said many times throughout the forum!

IT'S TECHNICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewing...ml#anchor_13194

6.5 feet = 1.98m

Most people watch their TV from at least 2.5/3m away.

It's a Load of MARKETING HYPE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also those people who want the nitpicky details:

When you are watching cinemascope movies cropped to 16:9 (so it fills the panel) on blu ray, the vertical pixel resolution is NOT 1080, it's actually 800.

At least it is on Lord of the Rings, and Pirates of the Carribean..... so id say all the rest of the cinemascope bluray movies out there as well.

So it's actually stretching 800 lines over 1080 lines on a 1080p panel, where as on a 768p panel, it's only being downscaled 32 pixels.

I hope ive cleared up a few things!

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JB Hi Fi in Penrith dude.

1000

I don't know if it is just me - but two of the factors that swayed me towards the LX were

1) I think the image is more stable in terms of PWM (pulse width modulation) noise. (maybe due to smaller pixels so rather than one big pixel that I can see strobing to achieve an average level there are many smaller pixels that I cant see working together to achieve an average level)

2) I seem to notice less phosphor trail issues with high contrast material. (I cant be sure if this is a product of the panel settling down over time / me becoming less sensitive to the effect / or the LX just being better - but I did see the effect when I was first auditioning the XDA and I don't see it now with an LX)

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JB Hi Fi in Penrith dude.

1000

can u send me a copy of the reciept to henny23@westnet.com.au thanx mate.

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I picked up my 508XDA for $3850, That was the benchmark until you picked it up for $3780!

Good work t1000! which JB Hifi did you pick it up from? I got mine from HN Bondi Junction.

Ive emailed my receipt to about 15 people and someone said the stores are refusing to match the price i got!

Even at the same store i got it from! So i dont know how you managed $3780!

Also on the Issue of 1080p vs 768p that everyone seems to have their panties in a knot about -

The Human Eye CANNOT Resolve 1080p Beyond 2m ON A 50" Television Screen!

This has been said many times throughout the forum!

IT'S TECHNICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewing...ml#anchor_13194

6.5 feet = 1.98m

Most people watch their TV from at least 2.5/3m away.

It's a Load of MARKETING HYPE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also those people who want the nitpicky details:

When you are watching cinemascope movies cropped to 16:9 (so it fills the panel) on blu ray, the vertical pixel resolution is NOT 1080, it's actually 800.

At least it is on Lord of the Rings, and Pirates of the Carribean..... so id say all the rest of the cinemascope bluray movies out there as well.

So it's actually stretching 800 lines over 1080 lines on a 1080p panel, where as on a 768p panel, it's only being downscaled 32 pixels.

I hope ive cleared up a few things!

This arguement has been done to death. I sit about 2.5-3max (depending which seat on lounge) from my LX508 and im telling you, I CAN see a massive difference.

Also, I just went from a Pio 436 watching BluRay to my LX508 and its obvious to me on BR. Now I may not see it at 100% as im over the 2m magic mark but I certainly tell the difference.

The only BluRay movie I have which i've noticed fills the screen s night at the museum, I did feel it didnt quite look as good as my other BD movies - still incredible and 100x nicer than DVD (which I also own)

Edited by elisiX

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Comparing completely different displays and putting the differences down to resolution is a flawed concept to say the least. The 508LX is a MUCH better display then the old 436 with any source.

Have you ever scaled down BluRay or HDDVD content to 768 and then back up to 1080 using PC to remove all resolution above 768, and compared it to the original unscaled source at 2.5 -3.0 meters on the 508LX so that the ONLY difference is resolution?

Unless you have you cant say that the differences you see are resolution related.

The vast majority of the population will be unable to see a resolution only difference between 768 and 1080 on a 50” display at 2.5 meters or more, but other differences (not resolution related) will be easily seen at much greater distances.

The LX is a better display then the XDA in almost every respect, little wonder it looks better then the XDA, although for many people the differences may not be significant.

If you can see “a massive difference” between a 508LX and a 508XDA at 2.5 meters plus there is something very wrong with the setup, or maybe your idea of “massive difference” is not shared by others. ;)

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Decision made.. I went for the 508XDA - the 720p panel. I picked it up for an ultra-sweet price of $3780..

I find that price very hard to believe t100. I know the cost price and i cant see anyone selling it to you below that unless they work with the manufacture.

jR

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I find that price very hard to believe t100. I know the cost price and i cant see anyone selling it to you below that unless they work with the manufacture.

jR

Morricio paid $3850 for his - he's pm'd receipt to at least one member on the forum (InterestedUser). I paid 4k for mine. I was told by manager that I was buying below cost by $50. I believe t1000. I understand these prices are achieved through rebates through Pioneer. Obviously t1000's price is at this stage very much the exception.

Edited by Eazy

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I find that price very hard to believe t100. I know the cost price and i cant see anyone selling it to you below that unless they work with the manufacture.

jR

Frankly I don't care what you do and don't believe mate.

1000

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