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Hey guys,

Update, I went into Myer on Saturday to tell them I was concerned that this TV is not what Philips has advertised.

They said they would speak to Philips about the issue of loss of features in PC mode, flickering effect with PS3/laptop in normal mode (not PC mode) and general issue with 1080i processing of 1080p signal.

Anyway, I get a call again from Myer today to confirm what the problem was. The guy didn't sound like he really understood what i was saying, but said he would call Philips. So I get a call back from him to say that Philips says they cannot comment on this until they send out a technician to see what the problem was.

He also said that if there was a problem, I should take it up with the ACCC in regards to false advertising (well I already knew that). So back to the drawing board. I will try to get hold of Philips when I have some time soon.

I had another look at the link from avforums. One of the members got this link that really explains the problem well. Its a review conducted by hdtvtest.co.uk (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Philips-37PFL9632D/). Smaller screen size but same series tv.

Go to the section on 'Video Processing' and it highlights the problems.

1. Basically, in [PC] mode, both [Perfect Pixel HD] and [HD Natural Motion] are disabled. This obviously beats the purpose of promoting the tv with these key features if you need to use this mode for games consoles and HTPC.

2. In any mode other than [PC] mode, quote from the article :

I'll try to sum up the above findings in a single paragraph. One of the most advanced video processing engine/ algorithm (that deals specifically with full HD 1080 signals) on the Philips 37PFL9632D causes the TV to display less-than-full resolution when converting 1080i to 1080p for video-based source. This engine/ algorithm can only be disabled by setting the particular input as [PC] in the [Connections] submenu. But when this engine/ algorithm is disabled (i.e. when [PC] mode is selected), the 37PFL9632D will exhibit not only a loss of resolution for film-based material, but also a lot of combing and jaggies for 1080 source.
The Philips 37PFL9632D accepted 1080p/24 signal from the Sony PS3. Telecine judder was reduced as a result, but in its place I observed an alarming amount of deinterlacing artifacts in the form of moire, line twitter and jaggies.

But wait, I hear you ask, how can there be deinterlacing artifacts when the video signal fed to the Philips 37PFL9632D is 1080p (i.e. not interlaced)? Put simply, this suggests that the Philips was converting the incoming 1080p signal to 1080i, and then deinterlacing it back to 1080p incorrectly (hence the artifacts).

Sending a 1920x1080 progressive signal from my HTPC to the 37PFL9632D confirmed my suspicions (I made sure [Picture Format] was "Unscaled"). In any non-[PC] modes, when the desktop was static everything looked fine and dandy, but once I moved my mouse cursor the originally-crisp alphabets started flickering/ shimmering. Engaging [PC] mode would extinguish the flicker (or line twitter in deinterlacing terms). Remembering what I wrote earlier about [PC] being the only mode that successfully converts video-based 1080i to 1080p without any loss in resolution, this is more evidence that the 37PFL9632D actually converts 1080p source signal to 1080i before reconstructing it (erroneously most of the time) to 1080p

This is exactly what I have experience with my laptop as explained previously even though my laptop resolution is only 1400x900.

Also it means that if you input a 1080p signal, it does not map dot for dot as the signal is turned into a 1080i signal before trying to turn it back into a 1080p picture.

3. Finally, lip sync lag as discussed:

I do not own a CRT TV or monitor that accepts HDMI, so I used a Samsung LE52F96BD set to [Game] mode as my point of reference. By sending a DVI-HDMI video signal from my HTPC into a HDMI distribution amplifier which was then fed to both the Philips 37PFL9632D and Samsung LE52F96BD, I followed the instructions in this forum post, and determined that the Philips was lagging behind the Samsung on average 100ms (across 10 readings) irrespective of resolution/ settings. Depending on your sensitivity you may experience this input lag during console gaming sessions, or as lip-synch delay when not using the LCD TV to process the audio signal from source.

This is what a lot of people in the avforums have complained about in regards to using a PS3.

Sorry, for quoting so much of the article, but I couldn't summarise it any better.

Put seriously, I am very alarmed at all the potential faults with this TV. OK, on the surface, it actually gives an amazing picture with FTA signals, but that is not the point. I bought this TV with the proviso that I will be using it for bluray and other full hd purposes without getting some second rate / run around fix as a final image. If this TV does not do it properly, then we have been cheated!

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I am not sure what the options are, perhaps Philips Australia first (can't imagine them being too helpful in this case...) then ACCC??

The More I think about it, the more I think that you would be facing something of an uphill battle with regards to accusing Philips of false advertising. One of the first questions the ACCC, or any legal beagle for that matter will likely ask is - Does the TV in question actually display a 1080p image? The answer of course is yes. The fact that the TV accepts a 1080p signal and then downscales it to 1080i and then scales it back to 1080p before actually displaying the signal is beside the point. Philips advertises the 47PFL9632D as a Full HD screen which it is, so I can't see any false advertising there. Is Philips guilty of being less than completely open about what for the sake of argument can be described as an Achilles Heel in regards to the aforementioned TV - Yes absolutely. The problem is all manufacturers are guilty of this. There isn't an LCD or Plasma currently on the market that doesn't have some deficiency that may manifest itself as some sort of video problem under certain conditions. Do manufacturers alert consumers to these potential flaws in their products - Hell no, quite the opposite, in fact manufacturers will go to great lengths to hide these flaws while highlighting the strengths of their product.

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Well, I've decided not to worry about this issue.

Why? It's quite simple really

1) how many other tv's on the market control the image in a similar fassion. No one knows at this stage.

2) this tv STILL has the best image in comparison to the alternatives

3) i rarely use my tv for gaming. I only watch FTA TV and DVD's/BluRay.

I can't be stuffed going through the whole ordeal when in 3-5 years time it won't make any difference. There is always better technology around the corner and I decided I don't need the stress fighting with Philips about this.

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Well, I've decided not to worry about this issue.

Why? It's quite simple really

1) how many other tv's on the market control the image in a similar fassion. No one knows at this stage.

2) this tv STILL has the best image in comparison to the alternatives

3) i rarely use my tv for gaming. I only watch FTA TV and DVD's/BluRay.

I can't be stuffed going through the whole ordeal when in 3-5 years time it won't make any difference. There is always better technology around the corner and I decided I don't need the stress fighting with Philips about this.

Sadly this is what phillips will want you to do, fuk us around enough to go arrh bugger it.

hmm im still not sure

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Maybe...but how does anyone know that Sony, LG, Samsung and any other company don't do exactly the same processing the Philips does? There is no further proof. We are only lucky enough that this was exposed on the Philips sets and people are aware of it. For all you know, ALL companies could be doing exactly the same processing.

At the end of the day though, processing or not, the Philips is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in picture quality so even if I did get a refund I would have nothing else to buy.

I compared this directly with the 9703 that my cousin has and it is WORSE for BluRay playback (has a lot more stuttering) than my 9632. The playback on my tv is a lot smoother. Other than that, I could not see any major differences that would warranty a battle whith Philips.

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Maybe...but how does anyone know that Sony, LG, Samsung and any other company don't do exactly the same processing the Philips does? There is no further proof. We are only lucky enough that this was exposed on the Philips sets and people are aware of it. For all you know, ALL companies could be doing exactly the same processing.

At the end of the day though, processing or not, the Philips is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in picture quality so even if I did get a refund I would have nothing else to buy.

I compared this directly with the 9703 that my cousin has and it is WORSE for BluRay playback (has a lot more stuttering) than my 9632. The playback on my tv is a lot smoother. Other than that, I could not see any major differences that would warranty a battle whith Philips.

Crazynuts, who makes/and where are these panels made?

They certainly do look sensational.

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I believe that Philips use LG panels (or are partners) but Philips use their own video processing technology and components.

Philips has been in the "video processing" game since the CRT days so they have quite a lot of experience in this area (and it shows in their LCD PQ).

I've sampled all the major brands and in my opinion there is nothing that comes close to Philips. The only drawback is the higher "backlight bleeding" from their LCD's, something I can live with as it's not that noticable.

Sony is an overpriced Red Dot brand to me

Samsung overcompensates with brightness and in the process loses a lot of detail

Panasonic don't make a big LCD screen

Sharp are not very popular here so the selection is limited, though i think they are also great TV's

LG, well...no comment needed really. Though they do have nice panels, the overall product fails.

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi guys...i'm a bit of a newbie here, trying to convince the other half we need a new tv (got a 32" lcd philips ambilight from about 4 years ago). I've been looking at the sony XBRs purely because i saw a great deal at JBHIFI but after reading through here and seeing philips have the ambilight on their new ones (other half really likes that) i'm pretty well swayed to a 47PFL9632D.

My question is, is now a bad time to buy? should i wait until christmas sales etc? or has that model been around for ages and should wait for new technology?

I'm thinking if i was to buy now i'd hope to manage a price of $2600 or $2700 max (based on what i've read in here)

anyway, any advice would be appreciated.

thanks in advance.

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jadnk, the 47PFL9632D is now a discontinued model, having been replaced by the 47PFL9703D. With that in mind availability will be dependant on whatever stock stores still have, which of course means you can usually drive a hard bargain on superseded models. If your sold on Ambilight then your going to have to hunt down one of the old models as Philips have removed Ambilight on all it's new models coming into Australia, presumably in an attempt to keep costs down in what is a very small market. According to the Philips website currently the only models in Australia with Ambilight are the 42PFL9900D/79 AUREA, 42PFL9632D/79 & the 47PFL9632D/79.

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I've had my Philips 47pfl9623 for 3 months now and had it back to the repair guys under warranty once already.

The TV had the problem of sound dropout intermittantly from the digital output and came back with the same problem, with the advice that the "new" dolby digital format in the TV was different and that my 10yo onkyo amp could not handle it. I have tried 2 other amps (Pioneer and Sony) with the same problem. Connection of modern set top boxes and PDR(Beyondwiz) to the amps showed no problems, which I expected.

The TV also has the annoying habit of stopping responding to the remote,

Has anyone seen these problems with their tvs?

Rick

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  • 1 month later...

Well I've initiated my complaint with my 47" 9632. Called up Philips and they asked me to ring their local service agents. The tech came out this morning and confirmed that even though he can see the TV say "1080P" it sure looks like the image is interlaced.

This is mostly evident when using the PS3 and any updates occur. While the progress bar moves (goes up the % count) you can see the two white lines flicker and it's annoying as hell, especially when the brochure says "1080P flicker free performance".

The tech is going to send his report to the state manager and the manager is going to call me direct.

We'll see how this goes, but I will not give up until I get the TV I paid for.

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Well I've initiated my complaint with my 47" 9632. Called up Philips and they asked me to ring their local service agents. The tech came out this morning and confirmed that even though he can see the TV say "1080P" it sure looks like the image is interlaced.

This is mostly evident when using the PS3 and any updates occur. While the progress bar moves (goes up the % count) you can see the two white lines flicker and it's annoying as hell, especially when the brochure says "1080P flicker free performance".

The tech is going to send his report to the state manager and the manager is going to call me direct.

We'll see how this goes, but I will not give up until I get the TV I paid for.

Hi CrazyNuts,

It's good to know that you are onto the matter. I have not had the chance to do the same as I am away from home. Please keep us posted and good luck!

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OK...this is what happened.

I initiated the service call with Philips.

[edit by DTV Moderator - referred to persons not wanting to be named]

Whole process took no more than 48 hours. I was massively impressed. [Edit] also admited to the issue and there is a "generic" letter that they send about the processing of this TV to their customers if/when they mention this issue.

I ended up getting a replacement TV. I took my laptop with me and tested out Samsung, LG, Sony, Philips and Toshiba.

Settled on the Philips 47" 9703 model as it was MILES ahead of ANYTHING on offer. Infact the closest LCD image wise was the LG believe it or not (but still suffered from interlacing issues like the Philips 9632, though nowhere near as bad). I got the 9703 as a straight swap-over.

So I'm a happy Philips customer again and I wish they didn't pull out of the AUS market as they really have great TV's.

For those of you who are in the same situation, I strongly urge you to contact Philips and voice your concerns.

Edited by DTV Forum Mod
Protect the privacy of persons named
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Wow, that's good news! Thanks for keeping us informed.

I've been hesitant to act because I currently do not use a PC with the TV often, however I intend to build a HTPC in the future and do not want to be limited by the lag, tearing and flickering deficiencies. I also really like the Ambilight and apart from this issue, the 9632 performs very well. It is a shame they have withdrawn from the Australian market.

I've been keeping a close eye on this AVForums thread for a while and it seems quite a few people have got an exchange in the UK.

A technician is coming out on Friday to observe the problem. I will connect my PC via a DVI-HDMI cable to demonstrate the tearing and flickering and then try to explain how the artefacts are caused by the 1080p<->1080i processing. I'd be happy to get an exchange for the 9703. Although I'll miss the Ambilight, it will be better to have a TV that can be used faultlessly (or close to) with a HTPC/gaming console.

Edited by lanek
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I believe due to the volume of exposure to this problem, Philips could not afford to ignore this issue any longer and had to accept responsability.

The 9703 is an absolutely awesome screen in comparison to what is available from other manufacturers and that is why I decided to stick with Philips.

Good luck to everyone else who is dealing with Philips regarding their TV, but I have high praise for [Name deleted to protect privacy] in WA for his understanding and efforts. I've had my LCD for 5 months so they didn't NEED to replace the TV.

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CrazyNuts, good to see that Philips eventually came to the party so to speak, even if it took some poking and prodding on your part. I've got the 47 PFL9703 myself and I'm fairly confident you aint gonna see any other LCD beat it.

Oh I know there is no other LCD that can beat it. Like I said, i took my laptop with me and connected various LCD's via HDMI. All I can say is that the Philips 9703 is like having 32bit colour on your monitor and all the rest are like having 8 bit colour.

The difference in contrast, colour and definition is so advanced in the Philips I am amazed customers are willing to buy inferior products.

Philips has been great to deal with. From the date of initial call to Philips to the date I got a replacement TV was 48 hours. Quite impressive.

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Oh I know there is no other LCD that can beat it. Like I said, i took my laptop with me and connected various LCD's via HDMI. All I can say is that the Philips 9703 is like having 32bit colour on your monitor and all the rest are like having 8 bit colour.

The difference in contrast, colour and definition is so advanced in the Philips I am amazed customers are willing to buy inferior products.

Philips has been great to deal with. From the date of initial call to Philips to the date I got a replacement TV was 48 hours. Quite impressive.

Funny you write that because my return took over 2 months and i have nothing but bad things to say bout philips support. Myers though nothing but praise :)

And personally i wouldnt be buying a tv from a company pulling its LCDs from the market

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Funny you write that because my return took over 2 months and i have nothing but bad things to say bout philips support. Myers though nothing but praise :)

And personally i wouldnt be buying a tv from a company pulling its LCDs from the market

yea all those people who bought hitachis .. what idiots lol ... yea no!

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Funny you write that because my return took over 2 months and i have nothing but bad things to say bout philips support. Myers though nothing but praise :)

Different state, different manager i guess.

And personally i wouldnt be buying a tv from a company pulling its LCDs from the market

I don't care really. Philips still have a responsability to support this tv for the next 5 years and by that time I would have bought another TV anyway. Hopefully by then, an OLED or LASER.

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i don't really use the 9632 for pc via hdmi but not really happy with the interlacing possibility.

only thing stopping me from swapping to 9703 is the aus version doesn't have ambilight whilst the us and uk versions do.

I was in the same situation as you, hence why originaly i decided not to pursue the matter. Then the feeling of being ripped off overcame the need for Ambilight. I am glad I did it even though I miss ambilight.

By the way, the interlacing issue doens't just affect PC connection. I noticed immediately that my movies and PS3/Xbox 360 games were a great deal smoother than on the 9632. It was like going from 25fps to 60fps on a game.

Edited by CrazyNuts
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