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skouta

New Samsung F81 Series

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It is just with Blueray when you force 24 frames. It does not happen on the Xbox360, or any other device.

OK - no worries - now I know as do any others who might also be wondering if the juddering will affect their F81 TV on anything other than a Bluray player - thanks:-)

Edited by powerman1

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Finally verdict - patch fixes the haze/ariticats from motion plus in my opinion.

Bad news - the 'juttering' on Bluerays is still present. BUT - I have some 'good' news relating to this. I own a Samsung Blueray player, and worked out some rough steps to be able to 'replicate' the juttering.

So I'm going to call them tomorrow and let them 'replicate' the juttering on the blueray. Once they see it (with their own brand technology) I'm sure it will be fixed quickly.

Will keep you all updated.

Hopefully this will also include a fix for people who own other than Samsung Bluray players - I'm guessing it will seeing it will be a fix for the F81 TV to deal with the juddering problem - just wanted to add that bit in:-)

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This heat haze issue...

Has anyone confirmed that its visible through Progressive footage, or is it only interlaced streams (1080i/5576i)which are interpolated by the panel? (ALL panels interpolate interlace into progressive, in addition, SD streams are scaled up by the panel to fit that resolution (1920x1080)

Im just wondering if what youre seeing re the het haze, is in fact interlace jitter due to bad interpolation

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It is just with Blueray when you force 24 frames. It does not happen on the Xbox360, or any other device.

lioannou this is incorrect it happens when you run a PC connected to the TV via HDMI or PC input at 1980x1080p @ 60HZ as well. It only seems to judder when there is movement in the picture e.g. watching a movie if the desktop is just displayed it looks fine.

While I am happy they have done something, from the sounds of things this firmware does not seem to fix the real issues like judder and unrealistic motion (2 separate issues). Like I said I didn't really have a problem with artifacts appearing on my set I just have problems with motion plus where the frame timing looks very unnatural or in the wrong order and judder. The best way to put it into words is as the cnet review states "In addition, removing judder problems also tends to remove motion blur, making images look extremely fake and unsettling."

I will have to wait and see when I load the new firmware and do my own tests but from what you have said this tread is not going to stop as there is unresolved issues still even with the new firmware.

Edited by ingxen

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Firmware 1012: http://www.samsung.com/au/f8/f8_firmware_1012.zip FOR AUSTRALIAN TVS ONLY - IF YOU ARE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY YOU NEED TO CONTACT YOUR LOCAL SAMSUNG DISTRIBUTOR

Well - the firmware has been officially released. There is a link above to the Samsung website, where you can download the firmware. Alternatively you could call the Samsung call centre, but obviously it will take some time to post the usb key out to you.

A few things to note:

- This firmware is not a copy of the US firmware. What was done in the US, and the issues they have, were caused by a different underlying issue relating to their broacasting etc. The patch that is released here was done locally.

- Motion Plus Settings need to be used appriorpiately, depending on what you are watching, to ensure best results:

1. Motion Plus HIGH: Unchanged on purpose. This allows for the best handling of super fast panning scenes.

2. Motion Plus MEDIUM: Standard TV broadcasts

3. Motion Plus LOW: Movies watching at 24FPS (i.e. Blueray)

Have fun testing this over the weekend. :)

Edited by lioannou

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lioannou this is incorrect it happens when you run a PC connected to the TV via HDMI or PC input at 1980x1080p @ 60HZ as well. It only seems to judder when there is movement in the picture e.g. watching a movie if the desktop is just displayed it looks fine.

Thanks - I'll pass that on.

While I am happy they have done something, from the sounds of things this firmware does not seem to fix the real issues like judder and unrealistic motion (2 separate issues). Like I said I didn't really have a problem with artifacts appearing on my set I just have problems with motion plus where the frame timing looks very unnatural or in the wrong order and judder. The best way to put it into words is as the cnet review states "In addition, removing judder problems also tends to remove motion blur, making images look extremely fake and unsettling."

I will have to wait and see when I load the new firmware and do my own tests but from what you have said this tread is not going to stop as there is unresolved issues still even with the new firmware.

Well when I watched the TV last night, it looked real to me. I didnt notice any particular 'unrelastic motion'. Remember, by the very definition of Motion Plus you are taking a normal image, and changing it, so any unrealism could be considered a by-product of that? (A philosophical open-ended question).

Also, if for example you used Motion Plus HIGH on a movie - it is over compenstating the image. Perhaps, maybe, CNet used the wrong settings for this? I did notice that HIGH does look unnatural on normal tv shows - but it is not desinged for that. Use the guide above, and see how it goes.

As for the thread 'stopping' - lets just keep focused on the major points, and work to have them corrected. We've got traction on the points, and I'm impressed by the relatively quick turnaround in the firmware (from when we escalated the issue). This may/may not be the 'final fix', who knows - lets keep an open mind and see what happens.

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Good work!!!

Now for the stock and the waiting game.

:) ...

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UPDATE ON FIRMWARE 1012

Hi everyone - I've just got off the phone (after quite some time) to Samsung Tech Support after speaking to a friendly and helpful guy who unfortunately knew nothing of firmware 1012 being released - it appears that they haven't been told yet!

He went and asked at least one other person who confirmed f/w 1008 is the latest! I then carefully explained about lioannou's post in here (this arvo) announcing the official release of 1012 and supplying us with a weblink to Samsung Australia's site to download the zip file or to ring Samsung and request a USB stick/key.

He went away again and seemed none the wiser when he returned and after even more discussion I got him to type in the weblink for firmware 1012 so that he can see for himself and he did see it and went away again (to his supervisor?) - in the end he took down all my details and my F81's model # and serial # and date I bought it and said I will be sent a USB stick/key with f/w 1012 - so I had to then explain I bought my original F81 on 2-12-07 but it was replaced 2 months later on 8-2-08 (I'm unsure why he wanted to know that particular information - perhaps it's to do wth warranty period?

I explained that even though I could download the firmware I do not own a USB stick/key and have no desire to buy one (wouldn't use it) and hence I am one of those F81 owners who will need Samsung to send out firmware 1012 to me on a USB stick/key. I asked how long he thought it might be but he couldn't really say - I said I hoped it wouldn't be a month or more and he said he didn't think it would take that long seeing he now has the weblink that allows people to download the firmware!

Finally, I suggested he tell everyone else in Tech Support about what he has just learnt from me so that they all know about it ready for the phone calls that will surely be coming real soon requesting firmware 1012 on a USB stick/key - he said he would tell people there.

So there you have it everyone - my good deed for the day - :D - now I hope any of you who ring requesting a USB stick/key won't have to go through what I've just been through and it's all quick and easy for you.

But, remember to have your TV's Model # and Serial # and date of purchase (or date of replacement I guess for those who got their first F81 replaced) handy when you ring Samsung Tech Support - yes, you have to go thru their regular Call Centre first who then transfer you to Tech Support :wacko:

Cheers

powerman1

Edited by powerman1

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Firmware 1012: http://www.samsung.com/au/f8/f8_firmware_1012.zip FOR AUSTRALIAN TVS ONLY - IF YOU ARE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY YOU NEED TO CONTACT YOUR LOCAL SAMSUNG DISTRIBUTOR

Thanks for the link lioannou, first thing i noticed after i upgraded from 1009 to 1012 is that my wave or hum bar thing has gone *touch wood*, and also the optical output connected to a receiver was dropping the audio when Dolby was present, now it still does it, though not as much.. seems like a good update..

Also another thing i noticed, not sure if it was just me, but PQ looked a bit better.

All in all, im just hoping my wave is completely gone...

will test Motion Plus very soon on PS3.

EDIT:

Ok i just tried Motion Plus via PS3 watching BluRay, and Motion Plus no longer looks fake WOOOOOO, looks very decent now. Funny thing is that, Medium looks like Motion Plus is off, you can notice it's on but not as high of a impact like before... and Low is ever lower (duh)... As soon as you put on High (as lionnou said they didn't fix) then you definetly notice the problem that was Motion Plus.

Put it on 24hz and turned Motion Plus on... i attempted with High first, and juddering started within 10 seconds.. i have it on Medium now, watching with 24hz option turned on... judder still there :(, Even tried Low and judder is there... though not as bad as before. Before it would judder till you gave up... now it judders for like 20 seconds then goes to normal.

Edited by Psygnosis

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Firmware 1012 question...

I have looked at the link and it automatically wants to download the file.

Where is this available on their site? I have tried to look it up but there is no info on it. Other firmware updates for other equipment explains what the firmware is for so why isn't there info on 1012 and why can't I find it on their site???

Can someone please see if they can locate it.

Thanks,

skouta

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First of all a big thank you to lioannou for helping and following through with Samsung to get the motion flow fixed. Well done mate !

I havent tried the update myself since I do not have a usb stick ... but will end up buying one this weekend.

Ok i just tried Motion Plus via PS3 watching BluRay, and Motion Plus no longer looks fake WOOOOOO, looks very decent now. Funny thing is that, Medium looks like Motion Plus is off, you can notice it's on but not as high of a impact like before... and Low is ever lower (duh)... As soon as you put on High (as lionnou said they didn't fix) then you definetly notice the problem that was Motion Plus.

Now reading through Psygnosis' update on applying the firmware especially "Medium looks like Motion Plus is off" ... I am beginning to wonder a conspiracy theory. Given that many of us have signed petitions and threatened to complain to ACCC against Samsung ---- could they have reprogrammed it so that Motion Plus Low and Medium is actually "OFF" ??? They must have got the idea from us since we all said that the TV is brilliant when we set the motion plus to off. Its a win/win situation for them since they would technically claim to have fixed the problem and in the process have made samsung customers really satisfied and pleased.

Just a wild wild thought ... dont take this seriously! I am sure many of us in this forum can run proper test to verify this update. The best idea is to actually compare the motion flow with Sony X series? Or even better would be Padre recording a video in his cam to test this as he said in http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtop...st&p=991758

EDIT: My thoughts were because I remember Samsung mentioning earlier (posted somewhere in this thread) that motion plus cannot be fixed easily since there is some power issue in the panel .. anybody recall this ???

And also Padre had also mentioned earlier that fixing the other issues like wave etc. is easy compared to fixing the motion plus which will be quite hard and requires a lot more technical changes .. or something along those lines!

Edited by reynold

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No i didn't mean it's literally off, you can see it's actually working, but so minimal that it would seem like it's off for a while... but in the end, it works like it should have been.

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Firmware 1012 question...

I have looked at the link and it automatically wants to download the file.

Where is this available on their site? I have tried to look it up but there is no info on it. Other firmware updates for other equipment explains what the firmware is for so why isn't there info on 1012 and why can't I find it on their site???

Can someone please see if they can locate it.

Thanks,

skouta

Hi Skouta - in the zip file itself there is a .txt file with the instructions about the firmware.

The reason there is no other information is that Samsung put the link up ASAP - to help get the firmware out to the public sooner. Basically the firmware 'adjusts' some Motion Plus settings to improve the picture quality.

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Hi Skouta - in the zip file itself there is a .txt file with the instructions about the firmware.

The reason there is no other information is that Samsung put the link up ASAP - to help get the firmware out to the public sooner. Basically the firmware 'adjusts' some Motion Plus settings to improve the picture quality.

Great answer but truly I think what he's saying in the long run is what if someone didn't stumble across this site?

It is not freely visible on the f8 website and there is no direct link to it there. Without reading this forum you wouldn't even know it exsisted.

BTW I'm satisfied with the result of the firmware upgrade. Can definately see the difference as before everything looked un-natural with movement. It's like it's been turned down but if you run the demo you can definately see the differnence. yaay

Edited by Khtulu

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I havent tried the update myself since I do not have a usb stick ... but will end up buying one this weekend.

Now reading through Psygnosis' update on applying the firmware especially "Medium looks like Motion Plus is off" ... I am beginning to wonder a conspiracy theory. Given that many of us have signed petitions and threatened to complain to ACCC against Samsung ---- could they have reprogrammed it so that Motion Plus Low and Medium is actually "OFF" ??? They must have got the idea from us since we all said that the TV is brilliant when we set the motion plus to off. Its a win/win situation for them since they would technically claim to have fixed the problem and in the process have made samsung customers really satisfied and pleased.

The reason people will think Motion Plus is "off" is more liken to the fact they are used to having to so intense in the past. It's like been in a really really bright room, then dimming the lights to 'normal'. The lights are still on, but the room looks 'darker'.

EDIT: My thoughts were because I remember Samsung mentioning earlier (posted somewhere in this thread) that motion plus cannot be fixed easily since there is some power issue in the panel .. anybody recall this ???

Bascially Motion Plus was adjusted. There is no power issue that I am aware of. I think someone mentioned something about power, but that was for something else. As for

And also Padre had also mentioned earlier that fixing the other issues like wave etc. is easy compared to fixing the motion plus which will be quite hard and requires a lot more technical changes .. or something along those lines!

As above - Motion Plus was adjusted - I believe it was a matter of tweaking settings in the LCD itself.

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Thanks guys for the update and clarification. I cant wait to get this firmware fed into my set.

*Mental note* I should not play the devil's advocate and appreciate the good things for what they actually are :blush:

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(I dont have privileges to start a new thread, so this topic seems close enough)

Hi peoples,

Need some advice from current owners or those that have some product knowledge on these two particular LCD TVs.

My mate is in the market to get a new 40/42' TV that has the capability to do 1080p & 100hz (over and above the usual features). We were set on getting the Samsung LA40F81BDX, got a good price but then heard some negative feedback. What he was told was that this Samsung model had a lot of warranty issues and many owners have been returning them. Later we discovered that it was the first initial batch with had problems at 100hz, which is one of its main features. Now it seems that all is ok.

Since then, he was recommended to look at getting the Phillips 42PLF9632D/79. I had a quick look at the specs and it seems pretty similar, although the dynamic contrast is not as high as the Samsung. Other then that, we haven’t seen the model in action, nor do we know anymore about it.

Are there any particular issues or concerns regarding these models? I like the fact that the Samsung does 1080p over component and the high contrast display really brings life to the colors. Like I said, I don’t know much about the Phillips model. Any advice would be great.

Thanks.

PS: No i havent had a chance to read the 122 pages yet.

PPS: Mates budget is $2500

Hi we are all a little excited over the new firm ware update to reply :)

But I'll give it a go the samsung had issues when first realeased with what they called the Wave problem

this was fixed with a firmware update 1008 and all tvs after that were shipped out with the update so that was fixed

However the mothion Plus 100hz has never worked like it supposed too other problems present are the Heat Haze and Tripple Ball effect it remains to be seen weather they will be fixed with the new update realeased today but we are all hopeful some peoples tvs were recieved with a lean to them though it seems that they were mainly early one and QA procedure at samsung has improved. Please don't let this put you off I do believe that this is one of the best LCDs on the market even without the 100hz working it is still a beautifull picture better than any others I auditioned the best judge is not the SPEC sheets but what you like when you visit the stores (be aware stores to fiddle with settings to make one look better than the others depending on what they want to sell)

Cant say much else other than I didn't like the phillips

check this thread for pricing

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=56941

Mel

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lioannou thanks muchly.. about to go try the new firmware :lol:

Regards

DSJ

Please report back here ASAP Dragansj and anyone else who installs the new firmware and give us a report on what you see please.

I reckon it'd be a good idea to have a quick look at your TV doing various things (FTA TV, DVD, Foxtel, Bluray, PS3 etc) before you install the new firmware and then (obviously) look at those same things again after you install the firmware:-)

And, please everyone, post in here straight away if you notice any new problems or are worried something doesn't look quite right (you know what I mean) so that we can all get a feel for how good (or bad) this new firmware is (seems like it's pretty good so far) - I've got my fingers crossed.

Cheers

powerman1

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Please report back here ASAP Dragansj and anyone else who installs the new firmware and give us a report on what you see please.

I reckon it'd be a good idea to have a quick look at your TV doing various things (FTA TV, DVD, Foxtel, Bluray, PS3 etc) before you install the new firmware and then (obviously) look at those same things again after you install the firmware:-)

And, please everyone, post in here straight away if you notice any new problems or are worried something doesn't look quite right (you know what I mean) so that we can all get a feel for how good (or bad) this new firmware is (seems like it's pretty good so far) - I've got my fingers crossed.

Cheers

powerman1

i posted in the previous page with my experience in the previous page.

Nothing bad about it yet, few noticeable improvements.

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guys.. i have 1009..

when i put in my usb containing the zip file.. and click usb download... it says no usb download available in the usb..

i tried even extracting the files onto the usb and still it couldnt find ..

any solutions?

thanks

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guys.. i have 1009..

when i put in my usb containing the zip file.. and click usb download... it says no usb download available in the usb..

i tried even extracting the files onto the usb and still it couldnt find ..

any solutions?

thanks

your not using that toshiba u3 usb key are you?

just be sure the image folder is in the root directory.

Edited by Psygnosis

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guys.. i have 1009..

when i put in my usb containing the zip file.. and click usb download... it says no usb download available in the usb..

i tried even extracting the files onto the usb and still it couldnt find ..

any solutions?

thanks

I have 1009 as well.

You need to extract the files from the Zip file on your PC.

Copy the file named "image" to the USB and give it another try.

First impression of 1012 - Better than before watching NRL on HD FTA - No problems with AMP on medium.

Love it............

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i posted in the previous page with my experience in the previous page.

Nothing bad about it yet, few noticeable improvements.

Yeh I saw your post on that Psygnosis - good stuff - I just wanted to make that suggestion to everyone to try to do a comparison viewing of their F81 pre and post firmware 1012 as that should really help determine the level of improvement (rather than just immediately installing the firmware then viewing your TV afterwards).

Drats I gotta wait for my USB stick - oh well I can wait.

Cheers

powerman1

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I have 1009 as well.

You need to extract the files from the Zip file on your PC.

Copy the file named "image" to the USB and give it another try.

First impression of 1012 - Better than before watching NRL on HD FTA - No problems with AMP on medium.

Love it............

You mean the Folder named "image" don't you Litzsurfer? I downloaded the firmware to have a look at the Update Instructions file that is in there too and I see there's a Folder named

"image" and within that are several other files.

Cheers

powerman1

Edited by powerman1

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