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New Samsung F81 Series

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"What I did last night was turn Motion Plus on, to the "medium" setting with the old firmware. I wanted to find a tv show where the issue was occuring, then I was planning on applying the patch, and then continue watching

For proper comparison, i woudl reconed you connect the component out to a HD camera (hire one, or give me a call) and record the input. U can probably do it with composite (itll look crap) but anotehr option woudl be to record the screen itself..

then record thesame screen with different settings. (use a tripod)

Run the vidoe through an NLE (editing program) and lay them side by side for a true comparison.

This is the ONLY way to surely know whether its a random thing, or whether its a content issue (ie high detail), stream issue (FTA or cable tv, or BD), bitrate issue (ie stream size from FTA digital or BD) or simply a format colour management issue (mpg2, avchd, vc1) as the nuances of the panel will be directly affected by these variables and colour managements of each codec.

Colour then leads to luma management (and vice versa actually) , which leads to dynamic contrasst processing (ie the contrast is NOT a constant 25k see) therefore the fluctuation of luma will advrsely affect CPU allocation.

That CPU alocation adversley affecsts all other processes within the unit in general, in turn, it could well be that this issue is stemmed from a mismanagement of CPU power/resources

Without knowing WHAT to ask, we wont wont know..

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On a slightly different note while we wait for update 1012:

Can someone post the optimal F81 settings to make Foxtel look decent. I tried the settings previously listed - very good with HDTV broadcasts, but Foxtel on same settings looks murky as buggery.

I have SCART to composite, and I know the quality is 576p but hopefully someone has the settings to make it look reasonable at least.

Thanks

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Update on new firmware:

Ok - here we go.

Today I got a phone call and was invited to Samsung's head office in Sydney to "see the new firmware". Naturally I dropped everything and headed over :)

The demo room had three LCDs setup. Two were Samsung F 46" LCDs. The third was another very popular competitors brand, lets call it "BRAND-A" for here on in. This BRAND-A is the latest LCD from the competitor, which people in this very thread had suggested as alternatives, so I know we are comparing apples for apples. BRAND-A has a similar technology which also does "motion adjustment" (I believe that is the technical name, but dont quote me on it).

All three TVs were hooked up to a HDMI Amplifier Splitter, which was hooked up to a media unit, all via HDMI. This meant all 3 LCDs were displaying the same picture via the same input method.

As you can probably guess, one of the Samsung LCDs had the 'new' 1012 firmware, while the other LCD had the 'old' 1008 firmware. I picked the new firmware LCD in 3 seconds flat. It was so obvious to me which one had the motion plus adjusted (note: not 'fixed' - more on this later).

Comparing the new firmware to BRAND-A's TV, it was interesting to note that BRAND-A had very similar issues to the old firmware in 1008, yet they were just slightly less obvious. After 1012 the difference was clear, BRAND-A has the "heat haze" and "motion" issues that were in 1008.

We watched a few different scenes from various clips, some were fast moving, some were slow, but to me anyway the motion issues had improved, and I was very happy.

Now, I had a chat to them about the whole issue around Motion Plus and 100Hz. Firstly it is important to note that the F series LCD will always run at 100Hz - regardless of the input and regardless if you set 'Motion Plus' to off. 'Motion Plus' is when the TV attempts to insert frames in between the source, to adjust for the fast moving frames. Part of this insertion of frames was causing the heat artificates to appear. The interesting thing is that the heat artificats are a by product and not a fault of motion adjustment (note - I said 'motion adjustment to mean the industry process of inserting frames, not 'Motion Plus' which is Samsungs name for it).

By changing the way that motion adjustment is processed by the TV, many of the artificats can be removed, at the sacrifice of some motion adjustment. They explained this for about 30mins - so I'm just paraphrasing - but you get the idea.

Now firmware 1012 has not changed the "High" setting of Motion Plus. It will stay exactly as is - on purpose. But "Medium" and "Low" have been greatly adjusted. I was very happy with the Medium setting, and believe this is where my TV will be set.

So - I was fortunate enough to be given firmware 1012 on a USB - which I have sitting beside me and my TV right now. I'm going to run some more tests tonight and let you know how it goes.

In regards to getting firmware 1012 - it will be released hopefully by this weekend (but no promises). Samsung factories have approved the firmware in regards to their QA cycle - so it just has to be signed off locally. I believe that Samsung will give me a link (which I will post here) to an official Samsung website where you can download the firmware (approx 12mb) - that way you know it is 'real'.

please do not call Samsung about the new firmware - the people on the helpdesk do not know anything about this yet - so please do not hassle them - they will just deny it exists!

p.s. please do not ask me to post the firmware here. Honestly - I would love to - but lets just follow the rules. I promise to get the link here ASAP.

Hi thanks for your post, does it fix unrealistic motion as described in the cnet review? I never really had a problem with heat haze on my 46" but when watching certain content I would experience droppped frames (judder) and unrealistic motion (like the image would be sped up or slowed down slightly looking unnatural). I really hope this is fixed for Samsungs sake.

I run a PC connected to the tv running at 1080p and 60hz and if i watch a divx or xvid (havent tried a dvd) then I get judder and unrealistic motion every time. Some people have said if they run their blueray player at 24hz then they experience the problem.

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Hey F81 owners!

i was originally going to buy this tv but then decided on the p9 because i thought plasma had better detail in dark scenes.

Whats your experience with this tv so far? have you compared it to the p9 plasma?

One thing i dont like about plasma is its not as vibrant as lcd, its not as bright which makes it a little hard to absorb the whole picture.

Cheers thanks for your thoughts!

:rolleyes:

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On a slightly different note while we wait for update 1012:

Can someone post the optimal F81 settings to make Foxtel look decent. I tried the settings previously listed - very good with HDTV broadcasts, but Foxtel on same settings looks murky as buggery.

I have SCART to composite, and I know the quality is 576p but hopefully someone has the settings to make it look reasonable at least.

Thanks

Do you mean scart to composite or scart to component?? If you have scart to composite then one way to improve your picture would be to buy a scart to component lead.

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Hi, every1

Anyone still waiting for delivery of 46" F81?

I've fully paid back in 12/02 and still waiting for 46", just called JB Hifi and they saying because of all these delay, Samsung will upgrade free 26" TV to 32"

Any trues on this?

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Do you mean scart to composite or scart to component?? If you have scart to composite then one way to improve your picture would be to buy a scart to component lead.

Damn, keep getting that mixed up. I have SCART to component - I know the picture cant be greatly improved, but optimal settings may help.

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Ive had my 46" F81 now for a week ... picture is absolutly fantastic ... not sure what the wave issue is i have seen mentioned here frequently but it does not seem to be present on my panel. It currently has the 1009 firmware, FTA tele in HD is unreal, ive only had motion plus set to low however, havent noticed any issues on this setting.

The only issue i have had is when watching HDDVD's, the picture quality with motion plus on low is incredible ... in 5-10 second bursts, after that i get the judder, then the fast forward like it is trying to catch up effect, which is disappointing, but turning it off removes the issue completely. Understandibly a number i comments i have come across in here have had purchasers request refunds etc based on this alone, i guess coming from a CRT beforehand to me that seems a bit excessive, i just turn it off and if we get a firmware that fixes it WELL DAMN! It'll pretty much perfect in my books!

Now if i could only get my free 27" to materialize ... in the form of a 32" ill be set.

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I am still waiting for my USB key with firmware upgrade. My firmware is 1006 - which is a bit wierd, isn't it? I mean, I only bought the thing last week - how can other units already have 1009 installed? I guess mine has been sitting in a damp warehouse for 9 months. What a bargain...

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Great news lioannou! Looking forward to your conclusions of the test. And especially looking forward to the release of the firmware update!

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I am still waiting for my USB key with firmware upgrade. My firmware is 1006 - which is a bit wierd, isn't it? I mean, I only bought the thing last week - how can other units already have 1009 installed? I guess mine has been sitting in a damp warehouse for 9 months. What a bargain...

Yeh my thoughts too joelaws - I hope you haven't scored someone else's returned F81 coz I thought all of the problematic first shipment (which had firmware 1006) had been sold and all the new arrivals all had firmware 1008 (and now 1009) on them (but I could be wrong) - if you haven't received the USB Stick within a week or so of them saying they are sending it to you then I'd be ringing SamsungTech Support again to find out what the hell is going on - did they say how long it'd be till you should receive it?

You never know you might end up with 2 free USB Sticks :rolleyes:

Cheers

powerman1

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Hey F81 owners!

i was originally going to buy this tv but then decided on the p9 because i thought plasma had better detail in dark scenes.

Whats your experience with this tv so far? have you compared it to the p9 plasma?

One thing i dont like about plasma is its not as vibrant as lcd, its not as bright which makes it a little hard to absorb the whole picture.

Cheers thanks for your thoughts!

:rolleyes:

Hi jacob2325 - yeh, that's why I didn't go down the plasma road - I just love the blacker blacks and the bold and vibrant colours of the Samsung F81 - it really jumps out at you - a friend who inherited big money from his late mother's estate splashed out on a 52" (I think - might be a bit bigger) Pioneer top of the range plasma about August 2007 (probably the Kuro) and I must say when I went around there I was not all that impressed to say the least! I recently visited my local JB Hifi store and saw a Pioneer plasma on display and looked at the pictue on screen and then spoke to a salesman I know who said it was the Kuro! Well, I was shocked coz I had read heaps of comments about how great the Kuro is and to be honest I did not like it (yes I know it was an instore demo but I'd prev seen it at a friend's house too).

If they fix up the 100HZ Motion Plus, Heat Haze and Judderring issues with the F81 TVs then they will reign supreme (IMO) as I already really like mine (HD FTA TV is fantastic - almost 3 dimensional at times):-)

Cheers

powerman1

Edited by powerman1

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Firmware 1012:

Ok - so I've applied the new firmware. First thing I noticed is that my old firmware was 1006 - but I never had the wave issue (I got a 52").

Now, I found a few shows where the hazing was occuring, and post new firmware I havent seen any!!!

I'm still watching TV - so I'll post some more later - but I think the picture just looks amazing, no matter what show I watch. It just looks so 'fluid' to me. For the people that asked - to me it looks 'real' and not 'fake'.

Also - I see no waves on my screen, but then again I have never seen waves, even with 1006 - so that doesnt prove anything.

Please remember one thing: this is just my opinion. For all we know, this firmware still causing hazing and juttering. I just havent tested it enough to be sure, plus I am only one person. What you all should remember is that when the new firmware is made available to all of you, you can give construtive feedback to me, which I can funnel to Samsung. It may/may not result in future fixes - who knows - but I am confident this should make most of you very happy people :)

p.s. I havent tested Bluerays yet - that'll be shortly.

Edited by lioannou

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Firmware 1012:

Ok - so I've applied the new firmware. First thing I noticed is that my old firmware was 1006 - but I never had the wave issue (I got a 52").

Now, I found a few shows where the hazing was occuring, and post new firmware I havent seen any!!!

I'm still watching TV - so I'll post some more later - but I think the picture just looks amazing, no matter what show I watch. It just looks so 'fluid' to me. For the people that asked - to me it looks 'real' and not 'fake'.

Also - I see no waves on my screen, but then again I have never seen waves, even with 1006 - so that doesnt prove anything.

Please remember one thing: this is just my opinion. For all we know, this firmware still causing hazing and juttering. I just havent tested it enough to be sure, plus I am only one person. What you all should remember is that when the new firmware is made available to all of you, you can give construtive feedback to me, which I can funnel to Samsung. It may/may not result in future fixes - who knows - but I am confident this should make most of you very happy people :)

p.s. I havent tested Bluerays yet - that'll be shortly.

Great going lioannou - sounds very promising - keep up the good work - I for one certainly won't blame you for anything coz like you said you have a 52" F81 that never had the wave problem.

So you had firmware version 1006 before this update on your F81 - hmmm, I wonder how version 1012 will go therefore being installed over the top of 1008 or the latest 1009 firmware versions? I also hope that Samsung have tested 1012 on the 40", 46" and 52" F81 TVs and also tested installing it over firmware versions 1006, 1008 and 1009 - do you know if they went that far? Sorry, I'm not being difficult but am just trying to see if everyone's individual circumstances are covered:-)

Finally, I guess we need to know if they will agree to send out USB Sticks for firmware 1012 for those of us who either don't own a USB stick (I have no need to own one either), or in my case my PC setup is at the opposite end of the house to where my 46" F81 TV is and I certainly aint moving the TV to my computer room to connect it to my computer if say I was to download firmware 1012. As I've never had to load firmware onto a TV before I wonder can I unplug my PC main box and take it up to where my F81 TV is and then connect both via USB cable and transfer 1012 from PC to TV and then apply it? Heck I am worried about doing it this way (having never connected a PC to a TV before either) - tell me otherwise guys who have PCs connected to their F81 TVs - if it's easy or not or might there be probs setting it all up?

But really, when I think about it, we should not have to go out of our way by spending money to buy a USB stick or by having to move our hardware from room to room at our homes to connect PC and TV together just to be able to fix a problem that is not of our causing - now please, I don't want anyone whingeing at me on this point as it is Samsung who should be supplying the fix to us by the means best suited to our individual needs and I hope others agree? :-)

Cheers

powerman1

Edited by powerman1

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So you had firmware version 1006 before this update on your F81 - hmmm, I wonder how version 1012 will go therefore being installed over the top of 1008 or the latest 1009 firmware versions? I also hope that Samsung have tested 1012 on the 40", 46" and 52" F81 TVs and also tested installing it over firmware versions 1006, 1008 and 1009 - do you know if they went that far? Sorry, I'm not being difficult but am just trying to see if everyone's individual circumstances are covered:-)

Dont worry - firmware do not 'add on' code - they 'replace' the whole code. So it doesnt matter what version you had, you will end up with the same result.

Finally, I guess we need to know if they will agree to send out USB Sticks for firmware 1012 for those of us who either don't own a USB stick (I have no need to own one either), or in my case my PC setup is at the opposite end of the house to where my 46" F81 TV is and I certainly aint moving the TV to my computer room to connect it to my computer if say I was to download firmware 1012. As I've never had to load firmware onto a TV before I wonder can I unplug my PC main box and take it up to where my F81 TV is and then connect both via USB cable and transfer 1012 from PC to TV and then apply it? Heck I am worried about doing it this way (having never connected a PC to a TV before either) - tell me otherwise guys who have PCs connected to their F81 TVs - if it's easy or not or might there be probs setting it all up?

No - you dont move the TV. What you will do is download the firmware from the link. You will then 'copy' the firmware onto a USB key, and plug that key into the TV. I cant comment on what Samsung will do in regards to sending out USB keys. (In fact - I am 99.9% sure that connecting the TV to the computer will have bad results - it is not designed to do that).

Doing the upgrade is very quick and painless, and you really cant 'stuff it up' in anyway. Very detailed step by step instructions are provided in the firmware download, so it explains everything.

But really, when I think about it, we should not have to go out of our way by spending money to buy a USB stick or by having to move our hardware from room to room at our homes to connect PC and TV together just to be able to fix a problem that is not of our causing - now please, I don't want anyone whingeing at me on this point as it is Samsung who should be supplying the fix to us by the means best suited to our individual needs and I hope others agree? :-)

I agree - but once again, its not my place to comment on what Samsung will/will not do. What I can say for sure is if you have a USB key, you might aswell download it yourself and do the code yourself, it would only take 60secs. If you ask for a USB key, it would take a week at least to arrive (if they will do that).

Edited by lioannou

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So will Samsung tell you when the 1012 firmware will be available to the public, so we can ring them up? Or would you post a link to the firmware when they authorise it?

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So will Samsung tell you when the 1012 firmware will be available to the public, so we can ring them up? Or would you post a link to the firmware when they authorise it?

When the firmware is available - it will be posted here immeditately.

Please do not call in the meantime - the people on the phone will not be able to help.

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Hi, every1

Anyone still waiting for delivery of 46" F81?

I've fully paid back in 12/02 and still waiting for 46", just called JB Hifi and they saying because of all these delay, Samsung will upgrade free 26" TV to 32"

Any trues on this?

I was told the same thing.. it was a double fault on their end apparently as theyve also run out of stock (again) on the 26' panels.

I too bought mine around the same time u did (11/2) and im still waiting. Apparently they were promised to be shipped out this week with 32' units as redemptions as opposed to 26'

I asked for this in writing from the Store Manager or from Samsung and they refused, so Im not going to hold my breath regardless...

In any case We'll wit and see...

For teh person wanting to know about black detail on ths LCD vs Plasma.

The P9 has a 15k:1 dynamic contrast, while the F series is 25k:1

Theoreticaly the LCD should offer a wider gamut of colour however as these are dependant on the content and how the dynamic contrast is set to fluctuate, I would say that the level of control would be in the F series favour, however straight out fo the box, the P series should look good enough for general purpose viewing.

For tweakability (which is what i presonally need) the F series offers more than any other panel on the market that i have come across. So close in fact that it has exceeded certain specification of certain 10bit production monitors.

In any case, for optimal viewing, its recomended to calibrate the unit within the environment in which it will be displayed.

The only other piece of kit with THIS much image control was my Panasonic 3LCD projectors (Ae700) Sadly its only 720p, but in many cases, it has made some Plasma screens look like rubbish in comparison (we do trade shows and bring it along) and its interesting to see results side by side like this.

Granted, with a projector, the only truest black posible is the darkest part of the screen itself, however taking that into consideration, and this projector (and its proceeding models) really are amazing for what they can do.

Sometimes when i look at teh image of these i wonder why i forked out 3k+ for an F8, but theyre different units for different purposes and i like the idea of having an automaic drop down 150' screen in front of my LCD panel.

So in buying this it has prompted me to spend even more (yurch) but I'll at least have the optimal home theatre ive always wanted an teh best of both worlds..

As for the globes, i can buy replacements for $250

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Finally verdict - patch fixes the haze/ariticats from motion plus in my opinion.

Bad news - the 'juttering' on Bluerays is still present. BUT - I have some 'good' news relating to this. I own a Samsung Blueray player, and worked out some rough steps to be able to 'replicate' the juttering.

So I'm going to call them tomorrow and let them 'replicate' the juttering on the blueray. Once they see it (with their own brand technology) I'm sure it will be fixed quickly.

Will keep you all updated.

Edited by lioannou

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Finally verdict - patch fixes the haze/ariticats from motion plus in my opinion.

Bad news - the 'juttering' on Bluerays is still present. BUT - I have some 'good' news relating to this. I own a Samsung Blueray player, so I'm going to call them tomorrow and tell them the steps to 'replicate' the juttering on the blueray. Once they see it (with their own brand technology) I'm sure it will be fixed quickly.

Will keep you all updated.

please also ask them about 24p output and how the set displays it! I have the Samsung BD-P1400 BluRay player and am quite happy with it. Which model do you have?

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Finally verdict - patch fixes the haze/ariticats from motion plus in my opinion.

Bad news - the 'juttering' on Bluerays is still present. BUT - I have some 'good' news relating to this. I own a Samsung Blueray player, and worked out some rough steps to be able to 'replicate' the juttering.

So I'm going to call them tomorrow and let them 'replicate' the juttering on the blueray. Once they see it (with their own brand technology) I'm sure it will be fixed quickly.

Will keep you all updated.

With 24p turned on on the PS3, the juddering occurs. With it turned off, it's fine.

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(I dont have privileges to start a new thread, so this topic seems close enough)

Hi peoples,

Need some advice from current owners or those that have some product knowledge on these two particular LCD TVs.

My mate is in the market to get a new 40/42' TV that has the capability to do 1080p & 100hz (over and above the usual features). We were set on getting the Samsung LA40F81BDX, got a good price but then heard some negative feedback. What he was told was that this Samsung model had a lot of warranty issues and many owners have been returning them. Later we discovered that it was the first initial batch with had problems at 100hz, which is one of its main features. Now it seems that all is ok.

Since then, he was recommended to look at getting the Phillips 42PLF9632D/79. I had a quick look at the specs and it seems pretty similar, although the dynamic contrast is not as high as the Samsung. Other then that, we haven’t seen the model in action, nor do we know anymore about it.

Are there any particular issues or concerns regarding these models? I like the fact that the Samsung does 1080p over component and the high contrast display really brings life to the colors. Like I said, I don’t know much about the Phillips model. Any advice would be great.

Thanks.

PS: No i havent had a chance to read the 122 pages yet.

PPS: Mates budget is $2500

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Dont worry - firmware do not 'add on' code - they 'replace' the whole code. So it doesnt matter what version you had, you will end up with the same result.

No - you dont move the TV. What you will do is download the firmware from the link. You will then 'copy' the firmware onto a USB key, and plug that key into the TV. I cant comment on what Samsung will do in regards to sending out USB keys. (In fact - I am 99.9% sure that connecting the TV to the computer will have bad results - it is not designed to do that).

Doing the upgrade is very quick and painless, and you really cant 'stuff it up' in anyway. Very detailed step by step instructions are provided in the firmware download, so it explains everything.

I agree - but once again, its not my place to comment on what Samsung will/will not do. What I can say for sure is if you have a USB key, you might aswell download it yourself and do the code yourself, it would only take 60secs. If you ask for a USB key, it would take a week at least to arrive (if they will do that).

Thanks again lioannou - so it looks like the 2 probs that are of main concern to me (Motion Plus and Heat Haze) are fixed by firmware 1012 - fantastic:-)

Can you or others advise if this "juddering" effect that people talk of of is only related to using devices like a Bluray Player, PS3 or Xbox 360 (the posts I've read here seem to suggest this) or does it also occur when watching HD FTA TV (via the F81s inbuilt HD Tuner) or say when playing a DVD thru my HDMI connected Pioneer DVD HDD Recorder? I ask this coz I am unsure if I have seen this "juddering" effect on my F81 (I must check for it again) and hence I am thinking that perhaps it's coz I don't have any other HD connected equipment such as a Bluray player, PS3 or Xbox 360 etc.

Of course, sooner or later I will buy a Bluray machine but I really want to wait until they have a Bluray HDD Recorder with inbuilt twin HD TV Tuners and at a decent price (I might be waiting a long time!) - I don't want much do I - lol;-)

Cheers

powerman1

Edited by powerman1

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Dont worry - firmware do not 'add on' code - they 'replace' the whole code. So it doesnt matter what version you had, you will end up with the same result.

No - you dont move the TV. What you will do is download the firmware from the link. You will then 'copy' the firmware onto a USB key, and plug that key into the TV. I cant comment on what Samsung will do in regards to sending out USB keys. (In fact - I am 99.9% sure that connecting the TV to the computer will have bad results - it is not designed to do that).

Doing the upgrade is very quick and painless, and you really cant 'stuff it up' in anyway. Very detailed step by step instructions are provided in the firmware download, so it explains everything.

I agree - but once again, its not my place to comment on what Samsung will/will not do. What I can say for sure is if you have a USB key, you might aswell download it yourself and do the code yourself, it would only take 60secs. If you ask for a USB key, it would take a week at least to arrive (if they will do that).

Hi lioannou - yes I do understand the procedure re downloading the firmware, putting it onto a USB stick and then using the USB stick in the F81's USB port etc etc (sounds quite easy as you suggest) and I now will not connect my PC box to my F81 based on your advice - so, the only option is a USB stick and I don't own one or have any need for one apart from this firmware update which, as I said, results from Samsung's faulty/deficient Motion Plus technology and I reckon they should provide 2 solutions to this problem - one being the ability to download the firmware for those who already have a USB stick and the other is for us to ring Samsung Tech Support and request a USB Stick be posted out to us, after giving our identifying information, TV model and serial numbers of course to ensure people aren't ringing just to scam a free USB stick - I am even quite willing to post it back to them (if they also send me a Reply Paid envelope) if they are that worried about how many USB sticks they will send out - now there Samsung, I've worked it all out for you:-)

Can you please chat with your high up Samsung contact re people like me who really will need them to send it to me on a USB Stick - I'm happy to PM you with my name to give to your contact so they know when I ring them the reasons why I need them to send me a USB stick ? :-)

Thanks for agreeing with me lioannou that it is Samsung and not us customers who need to work out the best way to supply us with this fix so that we are not out of pocket:-)

Cheers

powerman1

EDIT:- Silly me just realised that the F81 has a connection for USB Sticks and a separate PC connection (I did know this before - lol) and that the USB is for inserting a USB stick etc whereas the PC connection is for connecting a PC with the aim of using your F81 as a monitor for your PC and that's all you can do using the PC connection - in other words, you can't use the PC connection to transfer software from your PC to the F81 TV - I have just slapped myself for my previous silly post re can I use my PC connected by USB cable to my F81 to directly transfer the 1012 firmware from PC to TV - lol :rolleyes:

Edited by powerman1

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Can you or others advise if this "juddering" effect that people talk of of is only related to using devices like a Bluray Player, PS3 or Xbox 360 (the posts I've read here seem to suggest this) or does it also occur when watching HD FTA TV (via the F81s inbuilt HD Tuner) or say when playing a DVD thru my HDMI connected Pioneer DVD HDD Recorder? I ask this coz I am unsure if I have seen this "juddering" effect on my F81 (I must check for it again) and hence I am thinking that perhaps it's coz I don't have any other HD connected equipment such as a Bluray player, PS3 or Xbox 360 etc.

It is just with Blueray when you force 24 frames. It does not happen on the Xbox360, or any other device.

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