Sony TV Owners & Discussion Thread

[kendrew]

Hey kitcho9

Can I ask who you spoke to at Sony to get decent service? I've had my OB replaced by Aland Electronics under an extended warranty and they stuffed up the install (heck they spent 7 months stuck in the service menu and left it on their shelf collecting dust!) and then when they returned it, it was so far out of focus and missaligned it was unwatchable... It got sent to Telefix in coopers plains who spent 2 weeks and all they did was reset defaults and tell me there "is nooooo adjustment for alignment or focus." and then refuse to do anything about it.

So Horizon 5 who are the extended warranty people take that report and tell me to shove it up my arse. So i have a 70" SXRD with a new OB and 2 spare new bulbs and so far out of focus I can't watch or read text on it. yay...

If anyone has a helpful contact at sony I could call and explain my problem and get their advice?

Thanks

Mark.

With all the troubles you have recounted and the current state of your 70, you haven’t mentioned the extent of your prior efforts and communications with Sony. (Or have you, in previous submissions during my lengthy “sabbatical” ?)

Based on my own experiences, I would suggest you be armed with all relevant details, since purchase, in chronological order (dated and printed) and present your case to the first Sony customer representative by telephone.

Of course there are reps. and reps. You may have to try a few times to catch a savvy one who is obviously oriented toward you and your case. (Ask for a Case Number as soon as possible in the conversation - that makes it open and an ongoing record).

Be calm, polite but firm, all-reasoning, show confidence; have pertinent details at hand. Be in charge. You request the case number. You require a response within your time frame (better within hours, or a day - not days or weeks). If at any time you feel a sense of dismissal, ask for the case to be escalated - to a senior Service rep. Once a case number is prioritized it is common to have a designated and specific department representative attached.

Record, in detail, everything you say and the reps’ responses. Jot down notes during and fill in later for accurate record.

Once Sony is aware you are no nonsense and have a fair, reasonable and incontrovertible case, they will respond positively (I’ve mentioned this in previous posts).

Sony are aware of the SXRD issues (internationally). Sony are aware of their obligations under law. However, like most, they will only be spurred onwards when faced with substantive reasons for action.

And, “the squeaky wheel” applies.

In my opinion, it is poor practice to give out names or specific contacts when pursuing a case like this. It can cause instant hostility at the receiving end (a human trait). Exhaust all the proper procedures first, they usually are the most successful.

The process I have described above has worked for me on many occasions. Not just Sony.

I hesitated with this post. I won’t be surprised if some regard it as impertinent; even imperious.

[Guest odi]

Just called up my warranty people to see what was happening with my tv, they finally decided to give me a replacement tv (40" kdl ex600). Just waiting for Clive Anthony's to give me the details about the replacement tv. Took over a month to get everything sorted, I just hope I don't experience any more problems with the new tv.

Edited April 21, 2010 by odi

[andys]

Just called up my warranty people to see what was happening with my tv, they finally decided to give me a replacement tv (40" kdl ex600). Just waiting for Clive Anthony's to give me the details about the replacement tv. Took over a month to get everything sorted, I just hope I don't experience any more problems with the new tv.

They're giving you their bottom of the range 40" tv. What model did you have before? If it was a 40" XBR 3100 I wouldn't be pleased.

Andys.

[Guest odi]

They're giving you their bottom of the range 40" tv. What model did you have before? If it was a 40" XBR 3100 I wouldn't be pleased.

Andys.

I bought the KDL40X3100. Which I believe was the same as th XBR but with a plain black bezel? I thought the EX500 would have been Sony's bottom range of 40" tvs?

Edited April 21, 2010 by odi

[andys]

I bought the KDL40X3100. Which I believe was the same as th XBR but with a plain black bezel? I thought the EX500 would have been Sony's bottom range of 40" tvs?

A bit of a toss-up between the two. The 600 series are edge-lit & the 500 ccfl. The 600's are wi-fi ready though & a couple of hundred bucks more. Considering the build quality of the XBR's & their pricing back then, the HX700 would be a fairer replacement, though specs on the 700 are higher than those of the XBR. I guess I can understand them not wanting to do the HX700 on specs alone. I guess a 600 is better than nothing at all. If you're not happy with it you can always sell it as new.

Cheers.

[drsmith]

Interesting. I watched closely when the techie replaced one of our OBs. Took him less than a half hour and it just "snapped" into place. I asked but he said that usually it was a simple remove and replace without any adjustment required. Certainly was in our case.

I didn't time him but I reckon it took about an hour. All the circuit boards at the rear had to come out and be put back afterwards so that took a bit of time.

The manual geometry adjustment would only impact very slightly on the position of the OB I suspect (and has nothing to do with the replacement procedure) but it has a big impact when the image is blown up to screen size.

Good advice above too btw.

Edited April 21, 2010 by drsmith

[dimensionx]

So, here we go.

My 2 year old 60" SXRD has, over the course over several months, developed what I would describe as a red haze on some light images and also has a noticably bright bottom edge to the display.

I have just emailed Sony support in NZ to see what they say.

Will keep you updated with what happens and will probably be trawling through other people's posts for advice etc.

Ding, ding... Round 1.

[ramjetr]

With all the troubles you have recounted and the current state of your 70, you haven’t mentioned the extent of your prior efforts and communications with Sony. (Or have you, in previous submissions during my lengthy “sabbatical” ?)

Based on my own experiences, I would suggest you be armed with all relevant details, since purchase, in chronological order (dated and printed) and present your case to the first Sony customer representative by telephone.

Of course there are reps. and reps. You may have to try a few times to catch a savvy one who is obviously oriented toward you and your case. (Ask for a Case Number as soon as possible in the conversation - that makes it open and an ongoing record).

Be calm, polite but firm, all-reasoning, show confidence; have pertinent details at hand. Be in charge. You request the case number. You require a response within your time frame (better within hours, or a day - not days or weeks). If at any time you feel a sense of dismissal, ask for the case to be escalated - to a senior Service rep. Once a case number is prioritized it is common to have a designated and specific department representative attached.

Record, in detail, everything you say and the reps’ responses. Jot down notes during and fill in later for accurate record.

Once Sony is aware you are no nonsense and have a fair, reasonable and incontrovertible case, they will respond positively (I’ve mentioned this in previous posts).

Sony are aware of the SXRD issues (internationally). Sony are aware of their obligations under law. However, like most, they will only be spurred onwards when faced with substantive reasons for action.

And, “the squeaky wheel” applies.

In my opinion, it is poor practice to give out names or specific contacts when pursuing a case like this. It can cause instant hostility at the receiving end (a human trait). Exhaust all the proper procedures first, they usually are the most successful.

The process I have described above has worked for me on many occasions. Not just Sony.

I hesitated with this post. I won’t be surprised if some regard it as impertinent; even imperious.

So far my efforts have fallen on deaf ears at Horizon 5. Infact they have been quite rude and maintain that near enough is good enough.

The point of what I need to acheive now is 'not can I get it done for free'... but 'who can I call to get some real assistance to repair the set'. I figure Sony may be the only place I can get this help.

Beyond this, I'm seriously considering replacing it with a BenQ W1000 projector and spray painting the front screen of the Sony White!!! 70"/1080P and the W1000 is about $1500. And thats half the price of the Sony OB itself!

[laurie]

So, here we go.

My 2 year old 60" SXRD has, over the course over several months, developed what I would describe as a red haze on some light images and also has a noticably bright bottom edge to the display.

I have just emailed Sony support in NZ to see what they say.

Will keep you updated with what happens and will probably be trawling through other people's posts for advice etc.

Ding, ding... Round 1.

Sorry to hear that dimensionx wouldn't have a spare lamp to try first as a suggestion!

cheers laurie

[drsmith]

So far my efforts have fallen on deaf ears at Horizon 5. Infact they have been quite rude and maintain that near enough is good enough.

The point of what I need to acheive now is 'not can I get it done for free'... but 'who can I call to get some real assistance to repair the set'. I figure Sony may be the only place I can get this help.

Beyond this, I'm seriously considering replacing it with a BenQ W1000 projector and spray painting the front screen of the Sony White!!! 70"/1080P and the W1000 is about $1500. And thats half the price of the Sony OB itself!

Following kendrew's advice you should be able to get it done, at worst, for labour only (~$500).

If enough owners with faulty OB's get them replaced by Sony then it's not out of the question that they might offer a package like in the US for XBR2 OB replacement where warranty was extended (labour costs included and backdated).

Edited April 22, 2010 by drsmith

[laurie]

drsmith

Are the USA consumer laws tougher than ours!!

cheers laurie

[drsmith]

drsmith

Are the USA consumer laws tougher than ours!!

cheers laurie

I don't know. I wasn't referring to anything specific, just Sony's extended warranty on the XBR2 OB;

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item...amp;news_id=277

and background commentary on the above;

Sony's response to the problems (secret reimbursement and unadvertised warranty extension programs)

When the first out-of-warranty reports of issues come in on a specific model or family of models, Sony initially does not cover them. As reports increase, Sony starts offering partial coverage on an individual basis to persistent customers (secret reimbursements). For example, they might offer to cover half of the repair cost, or the cost of the part but not the labor. Alternatively, they might offer a small discount off a new TV in the Sony online store. As even more reports accumulate, Sony eventually issues warranty extension alerts for replacement of the optical blocks. In cases where warranty extensions have expired, Sony often goes back to offering partial coverage in response to appeals by persistent customers, as described above (e.g., pay for part of the repair). When Sony is deciding to extend coverage of the optical blocks, they are probably balancing the cost of the massive repair bills to fix everybody's TV with the cost of losing customer loyalty.

Many customers have expressed frustration that, even though they registered their TV purchase with Sony, and, as a result, received other communications from Sony, they never received notice of the extended warranties on their optical blocks or other parts. Many customers have also expressed frustration that, during initial calls to Sony support, the support personnel claim that they are unaware of optical block issues with Sony TVs. In class-action lawsuits, Sony has faced criticism over these alleged "secret recalls." In addition, it is common for low-level support personnel to claim that they are the highest level of support available with no supervisors.

In December of 2007 Sony announced that they would stop production of rear-projection TVs in favor of flat-panel LCD and organic light-emitting diode (OLED) TVs: MSNBC news story. In the Summer of 2008, Sony started offering discounts on new direct-view LCD flat panel TVs in lieu of repairing defective TV's under their previously announced coverage extensions, but the value of these offers is highly variable.

http://sites.google.com/site/sonylcdrptvpr...he-problems-sec

Both the above links have been posted before.

Edited April 22, 2010 by drsmith

[dimensionx]

Sorry to hear that dimensionx wouldn't have a spare lamp to try first as a suggestion!

cheers laurie

Sad to say that this issue has not changed following a bulb change a few months ago...

Made no difference.

[dimensionx]

Quick response from Sony NZ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Peter,

Thank you for contacting Sony NZ.

Please follow the link provided to contact your closest Sony Authorised service centre to get your 60” SXRD looked at by a Technician.

Once it’s been looked at by the Sony Authorised service centre and they have viewed your Proof of Purchase, please ask them to contact Sony's ASC team on your behalf to see if Sony can come to the party regarding the fault repair.

http://www.sony.co.nz/section/servicecentres

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonder if they have already realised that these TV's are not worth arguing about! The fact it is out of Sony warranty now wasn't mentioned... Good sign? Who knows.

Will keep you all posted.

Edited April 22, 2010 by dimensionx

[kitcho9]

Well the saga continues...

I just had a phone call from Sony saying their computer system is saying the part is unavailable.

He wanted to know if they had already told me that. I said 'no'.

He's going to look into it further and get back to me. He said if the part wasn't in he would do a prorata scheme (or something like that). This would mean they would give me a Sony 2010 model TV. The catch - he said they could only pay for whatever the part was worth. The Optical Block is approx. $3000 so they can only give me that much off a tv.

What are the top of the line 60 inch Sony tv's worth???

[pixelengine]

Well the saga continues...

I just had a phone call from Sony saying their computer system is saying the part is unavailable.

He wanted to know if they had already told me that. I said 'no'.

He's going to look into it further and get back to me. He said if the part wasn't in he would do a prorata scheme (or something like that). This would mean they would give me a Sony 2010 model TV. The catch - he said they could only pay for whatever the part was worth. The Optical Block is approx. $3000 so they can only give me that much off a tv.

What are the top of the line 60 inch Sony tv's worth???

Damn. Damn, damn, damn.

Kitcho, I was offered a pro rata price of $2357 for the 60" KDL60EX700. The RRP for this set on the Sony site is $5699. I was quoted $3199 for the repair for my SXRD, so $5699 minus $3199 is $2500 - not too far from the pro rata cost of $2357. HOWEVER, a quick look at staticice reveals that the KDL60EX700 is available from cameraworld.com.au for only $4879. So, $4879 minus $3199 is $1680. This would be a FAR more reasonable (and I use the term reasonable very loosely here) price to pay to "upgrade" to the 60" KDL60EX700, given the position we're in.

There is a more expensive 60" model, the KDL60NX800 with a RRP of $6999, the difference being it has a glass front (very glossy), a sleeker look, and 200Hz motionflow as opposed to 100hz. I couldn't see Sony coming to the table with that model, and given the reflective screen I'm not too keen anyway.

This is all very disappointing. At least Sony seem to be prompt and proactive in dealing with you kitcho. I'm having a hard time just getting someone to call me back.

Does anyone know if the US optical blocks would be interchangeable with the AUS ones?

Edited April 23, 2010 by pixelengine

[kitcho9]

Damn. Damn, damn, damn.

Kitcho, I was offered a pro rata price of $2357 for the 60" KDL60EX700. The RRP for this set on the Sony site is $5699. I was quoted $3199 for the repair for my SXRD, so $5699 minus $3199 is $2500 - not too far from the pro rata cost of $2357. HOWEVER, a quick look at staticice reveals that the KDL60EX700 is available from cameraworld.com.au for only $4879. So, $4879 minus $3199 is $1680. This would be a FAR more reasonable (and I use the term reasonable very loosely here) price to pay to "upgrade" to the 60" KDL60EX700, given the position we're in.

There is a more expensive 60" model, the KDL60NX800 with a RRP of $6999, the difference being it has a glass front (very glossy), a sleeker look, and 200Hz motionflow as opposed to 100hz. I couldn't see Sony coming to the table with that model, and given the reflective screen I'm not too keen anyway.

This is all very disappointing. At least Sony seem to be prompt and proactive in dealing with you kitcho. I'm having a hard time just getting someone to call me back.

Does anyone know if the US optical blocks would be interchangeable with the AUS ones?

I'm still hoping they'll call me back and say they've made a mistake and the Optical Block is available....however I'm not very confident.

So I'm guessing Sony will offer me the same pro rata price as they did for PixelEngine (see his post above). In my opinion this is not good enough. Up until today, it looked as if I would have my SXRD fixed and have a perfect picture on a beautiful 70" screen...for at least another 3 years...

Now it looks like I'll have to fork over close to $2500 to get a new tv!!!!! I'm not saying that's a bad price for a 60" tv, but the reality is I still shouldn't have to pay that much money after just 3 years!!!! Especially for a tv, which in my eyes, is not as good (or as big) as the SXRD!!!!

Statutory Warranty will play a big part here and I will take it further if I need to. Sony are saying they cannot provide a part for a tv which is only 3 years old. Not only is the tv quite 'young', it was a very expensive product from one of the world's biggest brand names! I'm going to demand that if Sony cannot source a spare Optical Block to fix my tv, then they provide me with a 2010 equivilant model at ZERO charge!!!!

I will demand for the KDL60NX800 because that's the closest to the SXRD...and I'll state that even that's a harsh deal because I'm getting an inferior product (based largely on size). However, I would accept the KDL60EX700 as well if that was offered.

Sony have promised to call me back sometime today...so I eagerley wait to see what they have to say.

Kitcho

[drsmith]

I just had a phone call from Sony saying their computer system is saying the part is unavailable.

He wanted to know if they had already told me that. I said 'no'.

A reference to section 74F of the Trade Practices Act (along with a request for the case to be escalated if not all ready done) might be a worthy response. This covers actions in respect of failure to provide facilities for repairs or parts.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/con...74149/s74f.html

It's a bit legalesee but the bottom line is,

...the corporation is liable to compensate the consumer or that other person for the loss or damage and the consumer or that other person may recover the amount of the compensation by action against the corporation in a court of competent jurisdiction.

if push comes to shove.

74F is not specific in relation to length or level of liability nor is the ACCC's document on Warranties and Refunds beyond an expensive TV developing a serious fault after 13 months of normal use. IIRC however these TV's were advertised with a life expectency of ~60,000 hours (XBR2 reference below).

http://sites.google.com/site/sonylcdrptvpr...-a-rear-project

On that basis it might be worth going for "not of merchantable quality" based on the advertised lifespan and demand a full refund (or something very close too it) if Sony are ultimately unable to supply a replacement OB.

Edited April 23, 2010 by drsmith

[laurie]

If its like car insurance replacement the more kilometers you have the less you get back so one is to assume with TV's hours clocked up will account for a Discount not sure they can use that line of thinking because if someone here sold a display the first question always asked is "How Many Hours" just thinking aloud

cheers laurie

[drsmith]

It's first what the consumer can negotiate and failing that a "what a reasonable person would expect" court judgement. Unless the consumer is a very good negotiator (and very persistent), this makes it difficult and perhaps explains why Sony in the USA had a tiered approach to dealing XBR2 OB problems there (assuming their consumer laws are similar).

If negotiations came down to hours relative to a 60000 hour lifetime then a reasonable person might say an average of 4 hours per day. Even if it's 6 the TV should last approximately 27 years. If an owner has had it for 4 years and Sony ultimately can't replace a vital part then a reasonable outcome might be a refund of the purchase price multiplied by 23/27 based on that advertised lifetime.

That does not have to be the final outcome of any negotiation but it may be a reasonable starting point from a consumer perspective.

Edited April 23, 2010 by drsmith

[kitcho9]

Thanks DrSmith for the 74F info...already printed it off so I'm ready when Sony ring

[kitcho9]

Ok, Sony just rang me back and said the part is definitely not available....grrrrr!!!!!

So...I need to email him the receipt (I'm pretty sure I still have it somewhere - gulp)....once the receipt is received, he'll plug some information into a program they have (that's how he described it to me) and that will determine what my compensation will be.

He then said I can pick ANY Sony tv....as long as it's the 2010 range. This also includes the 3D tv's...obviously I'll have to wait until July if I want to go down this path.

So I accepted that decision for the time being...I won't bring out the big guns until I find out how much compensation I will recieve....

Also...I forgot to ask the gentleman I spoke with....what will happen with my SXRD. Will they pick this up or can I keep it??? I'm hoping Sony let me keep this....would still make an ok second tv for the kids I guess. Cartoons look a lot better than movies with my particular Optical Block issue.

[drsmith]

Ok, Sony just rang me back and said the part is definitely not available....grrrrr!!!!!

Page 9 of the ACCC's document Warranties and Refunds, Other types of remedies.

If a good does not meet a statutory condition or

statutory warranty after a consumer has owned

it for some time or used it a lot, it is still a breach

of contract. However, the consumer may not be

entitled to rely upon the right under the Act to

cancel or rescind the contract and claim a full

refund. In these cases, the consumer may still be entitled

to another form of remedy from the seller for the

breach of contract, such as:

. the replacement of the goods, or the supply of

equivalent goods

. repair of the goods, or paying for the cost of

repair.

It is up to the consumer and seller to negotiate

a solution that is acceptable to each party.......

In the absence of an OB they are unable to remedy by the second dot point.

Replacement is unlikely (refurbished ?) so that leaves supply of equivalent. One element of equivalent for me would be screen size.

Failing that a cash settlement would be in order so that as an option an equivalent TV can be purchased from another manufacturer.

Edited April 23, 2010 by drsmith

[O-3]

Well that is disappointing news Kitcho.

Does anyone know if the US optical blocks would be interchangeable with the AUS ones?

Pixelengine.....As far as I know they are not compatible.

The info should be in this thread.Someone emailed the company who refurbs the American OB's and their reply was no they couldn't do our model.

[pixelengine]

If it's indeed true that replacement OBs are no longer available, I think I'll be pursuing a cash settlement from Sony and look elsewhere for a replacement 65"+ display.