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Hitachi Plasma 50" 1080

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...but the panel just activated the pixels in a different and more efficient manner (or so Hitachi/Fujitsu believe).

Philip

I wasn't aware that Fujitsu used ALIS technology too. I thought it was Hitachi and Philips, could be wrong.

It's used I believe to save on processing power. Either a) less powerful processors for the same number of pixels, or B) able to process twice more detail with the same processing power because only using half the pixels.

Personally, I've never thought much of the Hitachis, Panasonic and Pioneer seem like a better alternative.

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I wasn't aware that Fujitsu used ALIS technology too. I thought it was Hitachi and Philips, could be wrong.

It's used I believe to save on processing power. Either a) less powerful processors for the same number of pixels, or B) able to process twice more detail with the same processing power because only using half the pixels.

Personally, I've never thought much of the Hitachis, Panasonic and Pioneer seem like a better alternative.

Fujitsu difinitely use ALiS .. they went halves in the glass factory which made them. A benefit of ALiS was higher pixel density than regular plasma due to the one electrode strip activating alternating lines.

Philip

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wow nice one ! I havent seen these myself but by all accounts sounds bloody awesome ! congratulations :)

Ditto.

What do you recon Al - are Hitachi going back to the good 'ol days and putting quality ahead of price?

Philip

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Fujitsu difinitely use ALiS .. they went halves in the glass factory which made them. A benefit of ALiS was higher pixel density than regular plasma due to the one electrode strip activating alternating lines.

Philip

hitachi own 80 % of the factory and the reason why no body is seeing tv loop on it is because hitachi are giving every store a hd regenerator....... to play there plasma as good as it can get but im sure if the stores where smart enough they would put tv on it as well.......

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Ditto.

What do you recon Al - are Hitachi going back to the good 'ol days and putting quality ahead of price?

Philip

certaily hope so pjc, the panels they put out following the 8800 / 8900 were just never the same I reckon, but if theyre makign a comeback would be very welcomed. plenty of hitachi fans out there and would be great for people ot have another option to consider.

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hitachi own 80 % of the factory and the reason why no body is seeing tv loop on it is because hitachi are giving every store a hd regenerator....... to play there plasma as good as it can get but im sure if the stores where smart enough they would put tv on it as well.......

I just returned from Southland where HN had a new 50" Hitachi displaying the start of the Port and West Coast game. They converted it to the Hitachi HD feed when I stood watching. The HD feed looked to demonstrate how motion judder could be corrected by the panel which seemed quite effective. Similar concept to the half normal/half hi def (Sony?) feeds that I have seen. The price was $5,499 but when I enquired about the Panasonic PZ he looked it up and said it would sell for $4,999 but not sure when despite being on order. I suggested the Hitachi would not sell at that price for long and he offered $4,999 immediately. Interestingly, Myers offered to take a pre order for the Panasonic at a list price that was $5,700 I think with delivery around last week of September. Neither place could offer any detail on the Pioneer pricing but Myers said they would be arriving the first week of October.

Also a question for HTPC users, of these two scenarios which would you choose given a HTPC feed for hi def TV and Blue Ray. All scaling etc via an Nvidia 8600GT. A Pioneer Kuro panel that could not use HDMI via a PC and had to show a 3 pixel border but gave significantly better contrast etc. Or a Hitachi/Panasonic which took HDMI (via DVI) and has no border issues but poorer contrast? Assume viewing distance is acceptable for the Pioneer and there are no 24fps issues associated with either, although I suspect the Pioneer will have 72Hz capability which is another potential bonus if the source material has not been converted prior.

Thanks

Michael

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That's incredible. You're not able to watch FTA before buying an Hitachi from HN???

I'd just wait until other retailers get them and make an informed decision. At least then the Panasonic PZ and Pio 508 (reg HD) will also be out to compare it with.

yeah guys the pana pz700A jb said stock next week $4500 cash im in wollongong it does not do 24p but it is a progresive panel unlike the hitachi i dont know how hn can sell the hitachi as 1080p as there is know mention of it on hitachi site even sales idiot said it was 1920 x1080 i panel any way will compare next week. let you know,to the guy who bought the hitachi have you noticed the flicker as about 4 people have commented on this.cheers. :blush:

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Link to Hitachi website fot this panel

Hitachi P50X01 Full HD TV

Many comments re flicker banding...I'm not seeing colour banding nor flicker - rock solid is a pretty good description.

btw, am i the first on thsi forum with this set? Also just tried to update my harmony remote - tehy don't have listed yet :wacko:

Cheers

blairy

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yeah guys the pana pz700A jb said stock next week $4500 cash im in wollongong it does not do 24p but it is a progresive panel unlike the hitachi i dont know how hn can sell the hitachi as 1080p as there is know mention of it on hitachi site even sales idiot said it was 1920 x1080 i panel any way will compare next week. let you know,to the guy who bought the hitachi have you noticed the flicker as about 4 people have commented on this.cheers. :blush:

the` hitachi is`1080p isn't it

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the` hitachi is`1080p isn't it

na dazbug, all the info from the states say its still a interlaced panel thats why on hitachi web they only say full hd 1920x1080 but no p i dont know how hn have added that its progressive i think you could dispute this if you bought 1 because they told you it was 1080p,but they would not know their asshloe from their breakfast. cheers.ps actually panasonic are advertising their panals as worlds first 1080p panals and i dont know how as the pio ex has been out for a year .

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na dazbug, all the info from the states say its still a interlaced panel thats why on hitachi web they only say full hd 1920x1080 but no p i dont know how hn have added that its progressive i think you could dispute this if you bought 1 because they told you it was 1080p,but they would not know their asshloe from their breakfast. cheers.ps actually panasonic are advertising their panals as worlds first 1080p panals and i dont know how as the pio ex has been out for a year .

the alis hitachis are not an interlaced panel as such as say crts are, theres a post in the attachments forum explaining how hte hitachis work.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=13604

they utilise alternate lighting of surfaces alis by splitting a page of information into 2 pages to display.

now whether the hitachi on the other hand are 1080p dont really know to comment. though reading the link from blairy nowere infact it even says it utilises a alis panel. so I would say this one is jsut a conventional panel. there was some partnership with panasonic and hitachi announced a while back so quite possible they are even sharing panels.

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the alis hitachis are not an interlaced panel as such as say crts are, theres a post in the attachments forum explaining how hte hitachis work.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=13604

they utilise alternate lighting of surfaces alis by splitting a page of information into 2 pages to display.

now whether the hitachi on the other hand are 1080p dont really know to comment. though reading the link from blairy nowere infact it even says it utilises a alis panel. so I would say this one is jsut a conventional panel. there was some partnership with panasonic and hitachi announced a while back so quite possible they are even sharing panels.

It is an ALiS panel. It says so on the panel itself. AliS is not exactly 'interlaced' but it is not truly progressive either. It is somewhere in between.

As I understand it, pixels are split down the middle, and each side is lit alternately (hence ALiS, 'alternate lighting of surfaces'). This means there is less dark material between the pixels, compared to a non-ALiS panel, which means less 'screen door' effect and a brighter display (all other things being equal).

But it is not true that every pixel is lit simultaneously (as in progressive scan). And it is not 'interlaced' precisely, because it builds a complete frame from the source before moving on to the next one.

The guy who has the panel says he can't detect any 'flickering' which can be a side-effect of ALiS. Some reviewers of other ALiS panels have noticed this flicker, which they say is more noticeable on test patterns than in real TV.

When I looked for the flicker, on this panel set up at Harvey Norman Melbourne, I thought I could detect it - but only with my eyes very close (10cm) to the screen - hardly normal viewing position.

Hope this helps explain. (And I hope I got this right - have been doing a lot of research but I'm no engineer)

Edited by NickSomany

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Interestingly, Myers offered to take a pre order for the Panasonic at a list price that was $5,700 I think with delivery around last week of September. Neither place could offer any detail on the Pioneer pricing but Myers said they would be arriving the first week of October.

Unless you asked a couple of weeks ago, the Myer RRP is actually $4999

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the` hitachi is`1080p isn't it

Definitely.

Manual says so.

HDMI (PS3 and XBOX 360 Elite) inputs are telling me a whole range of signals for varying inputs. For HD-DVD and BluRay discs, it's telling me 1080P. Specifications state that via HDMI accepts (among others) input signals of 1080p/50; 1080p/60 and 1080p/24.

Manual has ALIS logo on front cover and logo is also on panel. However manual and website are silent on ALIS.

BTW, this is a sensational panel :wub:

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well some say progressive some say alis what is it? i dont really care as long as the picture is brilliant and no,flickeri just cant wait for next week to see them side by side, the only worry for me is that it wont accept 24 p the pana that is so maybe i will have to wait for pio oh no.cheers :wacko:

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The guy who has the panel says he can't detect any 'flickering' which can be a side-effect of ALiS. Some reviewers of other ALiS panels have noticed this flicker, which they say is more noticeable on test patterns than in real TV.

Try putting fixed graphic on the panel eg computer desktop then see if you can't see the flicker. I can't use my ALiS panel for a computer screen as it is so distracting.

Philip

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Unless you asked a couple of weeks ago, the Myer RRP is actually $4999

Not sure if you read the whole post but it was Friday night and I reinforced that HN had confirmed their price was to be $4,999. The RRP on the website is $5,499 so possibly the salesperson wasn't fully informed. Myer also still have the Pioneer 507 panel listed at full retail of $4,999. Notwithstanding what I was told I can't see how they can launch with a higher price than HN when they are so close to each other. I may have to go there tomorrow and if so I will ask again.

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Try putting fixed graphic on the panel eg computer desktop then see if you can't see the flicker. I can't use my ALiS panel for a computer screen as it is so distracting.

Philip

Fixed graphic suchas dashboard on games console or EPG on foxtel (barely SD) does not flicker. I'll try and hook up a laptop in next day or so, however flicker from PC can be source device not monitor.

cheers blairy

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Fixed graphic suchas dashboard on games console or EPG on foxtel (barely SD) does not flicker. I'll try and hook up a laptop in next day or so, however flicker from PC can be source device not monitor.

cheers blairy

Blairy

Does it have direct button input on the remote?? I have the 8900 ( does not flicker BTW) and you can change from each input by just pressing the input buttom ie HDMI - component- hdmi2 etc. Brands like the pany you need to click thru each input - stupid as.

How does the remote swivel work - it is great on the 8900.

how does SD source's like foxtel look like??

how does the HD tuner work, as the last Hitachi models we adequate to say the least.

cheers

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Fixed graphic suchas dashboard on games console or EPG on foxtel (barely SD) does not flicker. I'll try and hook up a laptop in next day or so, however flicker from PC can be source device not monitor.

cheers blairy

Actually now that I recall, the flicker was much worse with DVI>HDMI than with D-Sub so it was probably a output problem moreso. All the same I find static graphics the worst for the flicker (It is subtle btw and nowhere near as bad as a 50Hz CRT. AND I am talking about a 8800 - but I assume ALiS is ALiS an any size/resolution).

Philip

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Blairy

Does it have direct button input on the remote?? I have the 8900 ( does not flicker BTW) and you can change from each input by just pressing the input buttom ie HDMI - component- hdmi2 etc. Brands like the pany you need to click thru each input - stupid as.

How does the remote swivel work - it is great on the 8900.

how does SD source's like foxtel look like??

how does the HD tuner work, as the last Hitachi models we adequate to say the least.

cheers

Yes it has direct input buttons on the remote

Remote swivel is very good, although in my setup will almost never get used. If it's something you need then this a well implemented solution.

SD sources on a 50" panel were my main concern...foxtel is much better than I expected it to be, but I had very low expectations anyway. I had thought ESPN would be unwatchable but even it's OK. Movie channels are good foxsports is not too bad. If you are watching for the content ok, if you watch and try to crititique the image/pq, well you're going to find reasons to whinge.

DVD from my ps yammy C750B does not upscale. Image is actually better from PS3 (upscales to 576P) and better again from Xbox360 (upscales to 1080P).

Tuner is OK. Have at long last shelved the old footy which I won't moan about too much because funnily enough it has got me this far in spite of itself :rolleyes: I would not call it a brilliant tuner. Used footy, topfield pvr and LG lcd panel. The latter two are probably better than the hitachi tuner. HD FTA is very good and it does a decent job with lesser quality images. Some SD signals are noticeably better on an SD channel than an HD. Having said that Dr Who on ABC20 was sensational last night.

Also has an analogue tuner :wacko: which provides a surprisingly decent image (well it's very poor really but much better than I thought it would be.)

cheers

blairy

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ok a liitle bit of serious viewing today....

tv taken over by teenage+ kids and friends. All thoroughly enjoyed 300 via ps3 with no complaints re pq. Yeah I know they - just watch the movie and don't critique the panel itself, however it is a big thumbs up for real world use.

Youngest kids playing video games and I'm not noticing any issues (other than what I would consider flaws with the game; I expect jaggies in sonic the hedgehog...)

Took the opportunity to watch 300 via ps3 myself this afternoon, along with quick view of foxtel movies (cinderella man) and rugby league on nine and a-league on fox sports.

Spotted very limited bits of what might be described as flicker (or even tearing) when viewing 300. This hitachi has a setting - movie mode - which provides four different options. Can't remember what each one does, but out of the box it's set to "smooth 1." Changed this to original and only noticed flicker once thereafter which I then realised was not flicker at all but a hair blowing in the breeze behind leonidas :rolleyes: prior to changing setting I scanned back each time I saw flicker on the disc and rewatched - in one instance what I thought was flicker repeated itself; on the other two or three occassions it didn't repeat itself - indicating that player/source maybe the cause.

Foxtel movies via denon2106 thru component at 576i are ok and certainly watchable. Foxsports not quite as good but watchable. This is more a reflection on fox than the quality of the panel itself, however it is relevant for real world use - most of us are not using panels purely for BD or HDDVD :rolleyes: - are we?

League on nine is SD broadcast, ok but not brilliant. SD broadcast was not a noticeable improvement over HD.

And of course the biggie re flicker (based on aprior post) is laptop via rgb input. Hooked this up a few minutes ago and wow...looks great. On standard video settings (1024X768) as per laptop fills screen (16:9) with a tiny bit of underscan. Image is absolutely rock solid...been using PC's (home and work) for well over a decade and some of the monitors I've had to use, well suffice to say I've been subjected to all manners of flicker and banding and whatever else...this image was brilliant. However, when I changed the resolution (on laptop) image flickered, tried three or four larger settings - all flickered horribly (forget noticeably) - I put this down to the video capabilities of the laptop.

All in all this is one bloody brillaint panel :wub:

cheers blairy

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great impression blairy, ill be tossing up between this the the pioneer

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I had a look at the NEW Hitachi today at HN.........was running the blu-ray demo and to be totally honest it looked terrible

just my opinion

Edited by creamop66

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And of course the biggie re flicker (based on aprior post) is laptop via rgb input. Hooked this up a few minutes ago and wow...looks great. On standard video settings (1024X768) as per laptop fills screen (16:9) with a tiny bit of underscan. Image is absolutely rock solid...been using PC's (home and work) for well over a decade and some of the monitors I've had to use, well suffice to say I've been subjected to all manners of flicker and banding and whatever else...this image was brilliant. However, when I changed the resolution (on laptop) image flickered, tried three or four larger settings - all flickered horribly (forget noticeably) - I put this down to the video capabilities of the laptop.

cheers blairy

Thanks for having a look into this blairy. I don't use my Hitachi for a computer screen except for photos but have had problems with the flicker. I had a few scaling issues with RGB and thus went to DVI>HDMI and the flicker was more noticable then. Like you say it is probably a video card problem not a panel problem.

Philip

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