Hitachi Plasma 50" 1080

[davc88]

did you see the th-50px700a well it isnt as bright as that panel and the blacks are not as good as it is a different screen type they use , so you are comparing it to a different screen , and your thinking is like you would compare it to normal plasma screens with normal screens instead of reflexive screens, you will be suprised...

do you have any scientific prof that having a anti glare coating will effect the black levels? or is it just your observation? cos this is the first time i've heard about it. there is ALOT of panasonic owners out there who compared both 700a to 70a units. i guess we all have to have our eyes examined? i can tell you this..during dark scenes when i compared both units side by side i can clearly see the fluorescent lighting from the store reflected on the screen of a 70a while 700a have none. now both have the same display panel while one is much more reflective. logic tells me the reflective surface would be brighter then the none reflective one not vise versa,

[Electric_Haggis]

Gentlemen. Can I field a slightly different question which should be appropriate to what we're all seeking. Terrific immaculate quality television pictures! It's about 1080p. I read that my XBox HD DVD PLayer whilst cabled as Component will NOT feed 1080p to any panel. Correct? So with my new Hitachi or Panasonic where will I access TRUE HD 1080p from? Broadcast? perhaps not until December? If then? Standard DVD? I think not. So will I have to BUY a true HD DVD Player or buy ANOTHER Xbox with HDMI connectivity. Thoughts Please?

Definitely don't sweat it over 1080p vs 1080i. If anyone here can actually see a difference between i and p on their plasmas, please let us know.

If it's 1080p at 24 frames per second, from Blu-ray or HDDVD, that's a different story of course - as you stand to get less motion judder (providing your TV or projector can take a 24p signal and display it a multiple of 48Hz, 72Hz or 120Hz).

Most XBox 360 games are actually 720p/60, and get upscaled to 1080i/60 on output. Even if you're using a 1080 TV, you may just get a better picture setting the XBox to 720p output with games. It's a case-by-case thing.

The XBox 360 can supoosedly send out 1080p thru the VGA ouput, but personally I wouldn't bother.

You'll see more of a difference switching from Component to HDMI than you will switching from 1080i to 1080p. The XBox Elite and the XBox Premium will feature HDMI (and probably support for 24p output in the future, via a firmware update).

As for broadcast - no way. HDTV in this country will stay 1080i at 50Hz (with good ol' MPEG-2 encoding) for a very... VERY long time. I'd be surprised if Foxtel offer 1080p when they go HD in 2008. Again, it's not a big deal. There's still a lot of beautiful-looking 1080i HD on air every day of the week.

(You'd see much more difference if the TV networks switched from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, but that won't happen either, as Set-top Boxes only support MPEG-2. Foxtel HD might possibly use MPEG-4, but that would likely only be to lower their bitrates for comparable quality.)

Quicktime and WMVHD movie trailers, downloaded from the web, are a pretty good source for an HD hit (although some can be nastily compressed).

Some upscaling DVD players like the better Oppo models, can upscale to 1080p over HDMI. But again - spot the difference over 1080i.

HDV camcoders are much underrated. Nobody should ever buy regular MiniDVD again once they see the difference!

In the end, HDDVD and Blu-ray provide the best source HD material of all.

Not sure how much the HDMI XBoxes will be, but you're better off hanging onto your current one, and getting a Toshiba HD-E1. It's a 1080i model (around $700), but if you want to try 1080p, compare it with one of the higher models in the shop, preferably on the same TV you have at home, and see if you can pick a difference. (They should upscale regular DVDs better than the XBox, too.)

For Blu-ray, the Playstation 3 is definitely the best player around. It's upgradable via web-connection, handles 24p and decodes Dolby TrueHD. It's worth the extra money over the first-gen Samsung BD-P1000 (which I got as a factory second for $780).

Hope that helps...

Edited September 26, 2007 by Haggis2

[clarky]

Which JB store?

jb in wollongog.but i did see them side by side in hn taren point i have to say the pana looked heaps sharper,colours were better,blacks were better it made the hitachi look real bad,but i dont know what settings they had it on and didnt play with either,but then last night i went to domayne they had the 58'' and the 50'' and they both looked bloody shoching,how could this be, should i just wait for pio. i would love some comments from people who have the pz confused again.

[denzil1]

Definitely don't sweat it over 1080p vs 1080i. If anyone here can actually see a difference between i and p on their plasmas, please let us know.

If it's 1080p at 24 frames per second, from Blu-ray or HDDVD, that's a different story of course - as you stand to get less motion judder (providing your TV or projector can take a 24p signal and display it a multiple of 48Hz, 72Hz or 120Hz).

Most XBox 360 games are actually 720p/60, and get upscaled to 1080i/60 on output. Even if you're using a 1080 TV, you may just get a better picture setting the XBox to 720p output with games. It's a case-by-case thing.

The XBox 360 can supoosedly send out 1080p thru the VGA ouput, but personally I wouldn't bother.

You'll see more of a difference switching from Component to HDMI than you will switching from 1080i to 1080p. The XBox Elite and the XBox Premium will feature HDMI (and probably support for 24p output in the future, via a firmware update).

As for broadcast - no way. HDTV in this country will stay 1080i at 50Hz (with good ol' MPEG-2 encoding) for a very... VERY long time. I'd be surprised if Foxtel offer 1080p when they go HD in 2008. Again, it's not a big deal. There's still a lot of beautiful-looking 1080i HD on air every day of the week.

(You'd see much more difference if the TV networks switched from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, but that won't happen either, as Set-top Boxes only support MPEG-2. Foxtel HD might possibly use MPEG-4, but that would likely only be to lower their bitrates for comparable quality.)

Quicktime and WMVHD movie trailers, downloaded from the web, are a pretty good source for an HD hit (although some can be nastily compressed).

Immensely Thanks muchly..You in the business?

Some upscaling DVD players like the better Oppo models, can upscale to 1080p over HDMI. But again - spot the difference over 1080i.

HDV camcoders are much underrated. Nobody should ever buy regular MiniDVD again once they see the difference!

In the end, HDDVD and Blu-ray provide the best source HD material of all.

Not sure how much the HDMI XBoxes will be, but you're better off hanging onto your current one, and getting a Toshiba HD-E1. It's a 1080i model (around $700), but if you want to try 1080p, compare it with one of the higher models in the shop, preferably on the same TV you have at home, and see if you can pick a difference. (They should upscale regular DVDs better than the XBox, too.)

For Blu-ray, the Playstation 3 is definitely the best player around. It's upgradable via web-connection, handles 24p and decodes Dolby TrueHD. It's worth the extra money over the first-gen Samsung BD-P1000 (which I got as a factory second for $780).

Hope that helps...

[Owen]

I’ll just drop in to correct yet another misconception.

1080i and 1080p video are IDENTICAL provided that the source was progressive (film) and the display can deinterlace properly.

Sorry to say this, but I saw what I assume to be the new 1080 50” Hitachi today, HN where asking over $5k for it so I doubt it was an old model, anyway black levels was very poor.

[Electric_Haggis]

Immensely Thanks muchly..You in the business?

Yep. Post-production.

Homewise, I'm actually more of a Projector-man, but it's been interesting to see how far plasmas have come.

Friends and clients are always asking for TV advice, so it's a good idea to keep track of these things...

[digitalhome]

I’ll just drop in to correct yet another misconception.

1080i and 1080p video are IDENTICAL provided that the source was progressive (film) and the display can deinterlace properly.

Sorry to say this, but I saw what I assume to be the new 1080 50” Hitachi today, HN where asking over $5k for it so I doubt it was an old model, anyway black levels was very poor.

Agreed, I have done a better assesment to that, and I simply don't like them! I have installed a number of "H" series panels and a "X" series panel and IMO Hitachi have moved forward one step, and in usual fashion, back in two steps. I found black levels merely average for a 2007 panel, very slow response to remote control commands, slow input cycling, optical output will only output from internal digital tuner (dolby digital selected), when stereo selected the inbuilt tuner's digital output is muted and will pass audio from the stereo analogue inputs. No passthru of HDMI digital audio from it's optical output when in dolby digital mode. Also unacceptable levels of image shudder on 1080i material (CH90 HDTV demo). This could be a batch problem maybe, as not all have done this, but so far 4 out of 6 have!

[Guest Consal]

There is nothing “future proof” about a 1080p display, so you may have been led astray by a sales person.

What provides the most future proofing is a display with the best picture quality and that will be the 768 Kuro, no doubt.

More pixels don’t necessarily make for a better picture, and unless you plan on viewing a 50” screen from less then about 2.1 meters, the extra pixels on a 1080 model won’t give you more visible resolution either, not now and not ever.

The superior blacks and processing of the Pioneer are much more important then 1080 resolution. They should be released in a couple of weeks, and you can see for your self.

Owen after listening to you and reading all the reports on the Kuro...I just bought the Kuro 768...even though I haven't seen it, all reports from far and wide say it is a fantastic panel...wish I could have bought the kuro 1080p version but alas I am sure the 768 at my viewing distance (3-4) will be more than sufficient.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

[denzil1]

Owen after listening to you and reading all the reports on the Kuro...I just bought the Kuro 768...even though I haven't seen it, all reports from far and wide say it is a fantastic panel...wish I could have bought the kuro 1080p version but alas I am sure the 768 at my viewing distance (3-4) will be more than sufficient.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

Owen. When you refeer to the Pioneer 768 I presume you're talking 768 Vertical pixel count. and Not a model number. If that's the case are you citing the z700 series as the very best or what? Which model numbers are you talking or which generation of screen? thanks.

[Owen]

Owen after listening to you and reading all the reports on the Kuro...I just bought the Kuro 768...even though I haven't seen it, all reports from far and wide say it is a fantastic panel...wish I could have bought the kuro 1080p version but alas I am sure the 768 at my viewing distance (3-4) will be more than sufficient.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

No probs mate, good luck with your new toy, but you wont need it.

[Owen]

Owen. When you refeer to the Pioneer 768 I presume you're talking 768 Vertical pixel count. and Not a model number. If that's the case are you citing the z700 series as the very best or what? Which model numbers are you talking or which generation of screen? thanks.

Yes 768 is 768p, not a model number.

The Pioneer is model number 508, out in a couple of weeks.

[blairy]

Sorry to say this, but I saw what I assume to be the new 1080 50” Hitachi today, HN where asking over $5k for it so I doubt it was an old model, anyway black levels was very poor.

Owen, what source was the panel using when you saw it? Can you point me at suitable sources (dvd/fta etc) to gauge black level performance on this set.

Whole range of adjsutments one can make in settings...of course one being four steps of black level

cheers

blairy

[blairy]

Agreed, I have done a better assesment to that, and I simply don't like them! I have installed a number of "H" series panels and a "X" series panel and IMO Hitachi have moved forward one step, and in usual fashion, back in two steps. I found black levels merely average for a 2007 panel, very slow response to remote control commands, slow input cycling, optical output will only output from internal digital tuner (dolby digital selected), when stereo selected the inbuilt tuner's digital output is muted and will pass audio from the stereo analogue inputs. No passthru of HDMI digital audio from it's optical output when in dolby digital mode. Also unacceptable levels of image shudder on 1080i material (CH90 HDTV demo). This could be a batch problem maybe, as not all have done this, but so far 4 out of 6 have!

X series remote is fine, input cycling does not apply (one button for each input and speed is acceptable) optical output is no big deal if using AVR (although yes this is an issue) lack of pass through of hdmi is no big deall if using an avr (although again you are correct) and I've commented previously that image is rock solid on this set (p50X01) even tested with laptop and nose up to screen. May be a batch problem - where are you viewing CH90 HDTV demo - no longer on in Sydney?

As digitalhome has flagged there are some practical issues with certain setups...some more: there is no RF pass through (now need spplitter for FM receiver); each input is separately calibrated (fortunately I'm only using three + tuner) all inputs on rear of set are pointed to the ground - except RF which I suspect may make wall mounting difficult...

I'll post others as I find them I'm sure.

Still very happy with new panel and if you're in the market certainly worth a look

[gonzo32]

hi all

this is my first post so I don't even know if this is going to work, but you guys had given me very good information on trying to make my mind between the Hitachi or Panasonic 1080p. I thought you would like to know that yesterday I saw the to plasmas side by side at JB Warringah Mall. Having said that I dont know if they are going to live them side by side because when I was there they were just getting the hitachi out the box so i ask if I could see then side by side, so they did it for me. Probably you are waiting for masive revelations but to be honest neader one or the other look the obious winner the funny thing is that when the footish was rolling some times the hitachi would look better and some times the panasonic would look better. So I would say witchever you choose you would be happy and by the way for this weekend only they had 10% off in all plasmas so he said he would sell me either screen for $4500 and could even do it interest free

[creamop66]

Hey gonzo32,

You should check out the new Samsung 1080p plasmas when they come out.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=54919

[gonzo32]

Hey gonzo32,

You should check out the new Samsung 1080p plasmas when they come out.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=54919

Great thanks for that

I am sure all now will become even more confusing, Do you know when is likely to be in stores for viewing

[wazonthehill]

Hi Guys

Went and bought the HITACHI P50X01AU yesterday at Harvey Normans for $3,999

My impression

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

Played for hours and can not get a clear picture.

The slightest movement and it is just a fuzz.

A perfectly still picture is OK, but even the edges are fuzzy.

Try to watch any foot ball and the movement makes it impossible to even pick the player

Bought it on an impulse, will never do that again.

Have the old LG standard def plasma, and it is MUCH better.

Have set up analogue TV, Digital TV, Fox, DVD and xbox 360 set up, all have this issue on the hitachi.

Harveys are no help!

In another hour the old plasma goes up in its place

Will try for refund, anything, or look for cheap "new" hitachi on ebay soon.

Unfortunately the only word I can say for its picture is "crap". If it was heavy enough I would say I just bought a four grand anchor for the boat.

Most disappointing purchase I have made to date

Warwick

[Electric_Haggis]

Well, this morning I went to Bernies Retravision at Mosman, where they have both the Hitachi, the Panasonic 50 and 58 inchers. They also stock Samsung, and I believe they'll be getting the new full-HD 50" when it arrives.

We did a decent shootout between the new Panasonic TH-50PZ700A and the Hitachi P50X01.

There were no remote controls available. Unfortunately, I could only callibrate the Hitachi, as the Pana needs a remote to get into the menu. Luckily the Pana is pretty well callibrated out of the box - further tweaking would've only improved it.

We tried a few Blu-rays, as well as regular DVDs, using the Sony S-300 player.

Here's what I found...

While I was previously impressed with the Hitachi, the Panasonic beat it for picture quality in every way.

1. Blacks were significantly deeper on the Panasonic - very close to the $10,000 Pioneer, in fact.

2. The Panasonic was brighter.

3. Due to the above two attributes, it had noticably better contrast.

4. The Pana was visibly sharper and more detailed - partly due to the extra contrast, and partly due to the superior processing.

5. Colour saturation and "vivdness" was better on the Panasonic, without being unnatural.

6. Compared to the Pana, the ALiS panel on the Hitachi was really showing its' flaws - you could see the alternate lines meshing together if you looked carefully. And due to the additional noise on top of that, there was a feeling of being able to make out the pixel grid.

7. Picture processing on the Pana was up to their usual standard (very good), while the Hitachi had more dot crawl, colour banding and a sort of an "8-bit colour" look, by comparison.

8. The Pana had a slicker looking chassis (for my tastes, at least).

9. Construction quality on the Pana was better, with things like the front drop-down door feeling more solid.

10. Although the Hitachi supports 24p and the Pana doesn't, motion judder and artifacts were much of a muchness.

11. The motion-smoothing Frame-rate enhancement on the Hitachi is a joke. It makes film look like video, frequently stumbles and is better switched off.

Non-reflective glass on the Pana doesn't cut down reflections as well as was hoped, but diffuses them instead. So you get patches of smearing light bouncing back, rather than sharp reflections. It still works well though - it doesn't hurt the picture in any way and is a welcome addition.

Having seen some of the same material on the $10,000 Pioneer, I can say that the Panasonic is SO close to it for half the price, that it's a no-brainer.

Again, with more tweaking, the Panasonic would have looked better still. But even as is, it was clearly the superior panel.

Bernies were doing the Pana for $4999, but the sales guy said they could do better.

[Iglesia]

Bernies were doing the Pana for $4999, but the sales guy said they could do better.[/b]

Apparently this guy got it for $3,700

[blairy]

Hi Guys

Went and bought the HITACHI P50X01AU yesterday at Harvey Normans for $3,999

My impression

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

Played for hours and can not get a clear picture.

The slightest movement and it is just a fuzz.

A perfectly still picture is OK, but even the edges are fuzzy.

Try to watch any foot ball and the movement makes it impossible to even pick the player

Bought it on an impulse, will never do that again.

Have the old LG standard def plasma, and it is MUCH better.

Have set up analogue TV, Digital TV, Fox, DVD and xbox 360 set up, all have this issue on the hitachi.

Harveys are no help!

In another hour the old plasma goes up in its place

Will try for refund, anything, or look for cheap "new" hitachi on ebay soon.

Unfortunately the only word I can say for its picture is "crap". If it was heavy enough I would say I just bought a four grand anchor for the boat.

Most disappointing purchase I have made to date

Warwick

I too have this set...it's nowhere near as bad as you're experience. Suggest you return it as faulty.

cheers

blairy

[ledge]

nice post haggis.

[denzil1]

Hi Guys

Went and bought the HITACHI P50X01AU yesterday at Harvey Normans for $3,999

My impression

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

DON'T

Played for hours and can not get a clear picture.

The slightest movement and it is just a fuzz.

A perfectly still picture is OK, but even the edges are fuzzy.

Try to watch any foot ball and the movement makes it impossible to even pick the player

Bought it on an impulse, will never do that again.

Have the old LG standard def plasma, and it is MUCH better.

Have set up analogue TV, Digital TV, Fox, DVD and xbox 360 set up, all have this issue on the hitachi.

Harveys are no help!

In another hour the old plasma goes up in its place

Will try for refund, anything, or look for cheap "new" hitachi on ebay soon.

Unfortunately the only word I can say for its picture is "crap". If it was heavy enough I would say I just bought a four grand anchor for the boat.

Most disappointing purchase I have made to date

Warwick

I cant believe you have such a problem. There has to be one simple fault, like connection, or calibration, or serious malfunction for you to experience such a mess. Before you ebay it get it checked out..or compare it again with other Hitachi installations, in other stores

[denzil1]

Well, this morning I went to Bernies Retravision at Mosman, where they have both the Hitachi, the Panasonic 50 and 58 inchers. They also stock Samsung, and I believe they'll be getting the new full-HD 50" when it arrives.

We did a decent shootout between the new Panasonic TH-50PZ700A and the Hitachi P50X01.

There were no remote controls available. Unfortunately, I could only callibrate the Hitachi, as the Pana needs a remote to get into the menu. Luckily the Pana is pretty well callibrated out of the box - further tweaking would've only improved it.

We tried a few Blu-rays, as well as regular DVDs, using the Sony S-300 player.

Here's what I found...

While I was previously impressed with the Hitachi, the Panasonic beat it for picture quality in every way.

1. Blacks were significantly deeper on the Panasonic - very close to the $10,000 Pioneer, in fact.

2. The Panasonic was brighter.

3. Due to the above two attributes, it had noticably better contrast.

4. The Pana was visibly sharper and more detailed - partly due to the extra contrast, and partly due to the superior processing.

5. Colour saturation and "vivdness" was better on the Panasonic, without being unnatural.

6. Compared to the Pana, the ALiS panel on the Hitachi was really showing its' flaws - you could see the alternate lines meshing together if you looked carefully. And due to the additional noise on top of that, there was a feeling of being able to make out the pixel grid.

7. Picture processing on the Pana was up to their usual standard (very good), while the Hitachi had more dot crawl, colour banding and a sort of an "8-bit colour" look, by comparison.

8. The Pana had a slicker looking chassis (for my tastes, at least).

9. Construction quality on the Pana was better, with things like the front drop-down door feeling more solid.

10. Although the Hitachi supports 24p and the Pana doesn't, motion judder and artifacts were much of a muchness.

11. The motion-smoothing Frame-rate enhancement on the Hitachi is a joke. It makes film look like video, frequently stumbles and is better switched off.

Non-reflective glass on the Pana doesn't cut down reflections as well as was hoped, but diffuses them instead. So you get patches of smearing light bouncing back, rather than sharp reflections. It still works well though - it doesn't hurt the picture in any way and is a welcome addition.

Having seen some of the same material on the $10,000 Pioneer, I can say that the Panasonic is SO close to it for half the price, that it's a no-brainer.

Again, with more tweaking, the Panasonic would have looked better still. But even as is, it was clearly the superior panel.

Bernies were doing the Pana for $4999, but the sales guy said they could do better.

Gord! this is becoming confusing. Why weren't we all born with a standard benchmark appreciation of colour and contrast and tint. The Haggis2 post has to be viewed seriously because he has made such good sense in the past.. So off to Bernies tomorrow to find the remote and settle this Hitachi, Panasonic argument. Clive Peeter's at Belrose has got both of these sets in now but their resident on staff calibrator (he's very good) hasn't had a fiddle yet. I'm told he'll be in tomorrow morning.

Edited September 30, 2007 by denzil1

[Electric_Haggis]

Gord! this is becoming confusing. Why weren't we all born with a standard benchmark appreciation of colour and contrast and tint. The Haggis2 post has to be viewed seriously because he has made such good sense in the past.. So off to Bernies tomorrow to find the remote and settle this Hitachi, Panasonic argument. Clive Peeter's at Belrose has got both of these sets in now but their resident on staff calibrator (he's very good) hasn't had a fiddle yet. I'm told he'll be in tomorrow morning.

Denzil, you won't need to be in the industry to see the difference between these two panels.

Understand that I'm cautious of over-hyping the Panasonic, and pissing TOO hard on the Hitachi - because they're both good panels. It's hard to quantify... but if pushed, I'd say the Panasonic is perhaps 30% better all round for the SAME money. I'd only consider the Hitachi if it were AT LEAST $1000 -1500 less than the Pana. (Or if I was desperate for a motorised swivel-stand)

If you're buying a TV that'll last you a few years - a TV that'll hold its own against future generations of plasmas (and possibly Laser TV), you want the best contrast and cleanest picture available, for reasonable money.

Currently, the Panasonic is it. Maybe the Samsung will have deeper blacks, but there may be other trade-offs.

Guess we'll see...

When you go to Bernies or Clive's, be sure to get 1:1 pixel-mapping with HD by setting aspect ratio to "Full 1080" on the Hitachi, and "JUST" on the Panasonic

Turn Dynamic contrast off, as well as all other processing modes (noise reduction, black stretch, etc).

Have fun, and let us know how you go...

Edited September 30, 2007 by Haggis2

[denzil1]

Denzil, you won't need to be in the industry to see the difference between these two panels.

Understand that I'm cautious of over-hyping the Panasonic, and pissing TOO hard on the Hitachi - because they're both good panels. It's hard to quantify... but if pushed, I'd say the Panasonic is perhaps 30% better all round for the SAME money. I'd only consider the Hitachi if it were AT LEAST $1000 -1500 less than the Pana. (Or if I was desperate for a motorised swivel-stand)

If you're buying a TV that'll last you a few years - a TV that'll hold its own against future generations of plasmas (and possibly Laser TV), you want the best contrast and cleanest picture available, for reasonable money.

Currently, the Panasonic is it. Maybe the Samsung will have deeper blacks, but there may be other trade-offs.

Guess we'll see...

When you go to Bernies or Clive's, be sure to get 1:1 pixel-mapping with HD by setting aspect ratio to "Full 1080" on the Hitachi, and "JUST" on the Panasonic

Turn Dynamic contrast off, as well as all other processing modes (noise reduction, black stretch, etc).

Have fun, and let us know how you go...

Makes sense. But you're preaching to a long time Hitachi fan. . . .so there's an inbuilt resistance. Overcoming it though! Like moving from film to digital. Well not quite as drastic..That's more like moving from Plasma to LCD. You mentioned "Although the Hitachi supports 24p and the Pana doesn't" How important do you figure this Frame rate matter?