Hitachi Plasma 50" 1080

[Colonel Goeth]

At what frequency will this unit display 24p?

I imagine it needs to be a multiple of 24 to avoid the processing that causes issues like judder.

US models refresh 5 times at 120hz which matches up with 30fps content as well.

Will we still incur the 4% speedup with 100hz in Aus? or will this model do 72hz?

I thought Europe and Aus get 50hz and 100hz panels cause PAL is interlaced 25fps (50hz). America and Japan get 60hz and 120hz 'cause NTSC is interlaced ~30fps (60hz)

Is this right?

[denzil1]

the problem is alot of people have really know idea about the products they take a guess and normally are wrong , the plasma is a good plasma when set up well ..... i tried to pm you i cant

What is to pm me? how do we do that?

[pjc]

So let me get this right, instead of changing the entire image at once, it lights up the pixels one row after another from top to bottom like a progressive scan CRT does? If so then that is quite a revelation as I always thought the ALiS plasmas were interlaced (lighting up lines 1,3,5 etc. then 2,4,6 etc).

This would mean ALiS has been pretty much 1080p all along then?

Sorry Ikari for not explaining particularly well. You describe it much better and you are right of course in how it activates each line of pixels alternately but this does not mean it interlaces the video signal. It is very convenient to just display each interlaced frame (520 lines) on the alternating lines for a 1080i signal but it can also render the same frame(half of the 1080 lines) on altertnating lines for a progressive signal. Due to the decay time of the phosphors, the frame is visually complete.

Philip

[NickSomany]

Sorry Ikari for not explaining particularly well. You describe it much better and you are right of course in how it activates each line of pixels alternately but this does not mean it interlaces the video signal. It is very convenient to just display each interlaced frame (520 lines) on the alternating lines for a 1080i signal but it can also render the same frame(half of the 1080 lines) on altertnating lines for a progressive signal. Due to the decay time of the phosphors, the frame is visually complete.

Philip

This means, however, that if it's operating at 60Hz then it only refreshes an entire image at 30Hz. Right? Which is a lower refresh rate than the domestic digital tv signal, and gaming consoles. So it is an effective loss of picture quality, in the same way that 1080i is lower quality than 1080p.

Am I right?

However this is only relevant if this panel is an ALiS panel - which I'm still not sure about.

The engadget article says it's an ALiS panel - yes I did see that - but just because engadget says it doesn't mean it's right. As I said, some sources say it's ALiS, some say it isn't (http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6638050.html for example shows that not all Hitachi panels are ALiS, though it doesn't mention this model in particular).

I'd like to hear from an AUTHORITATIVE, not second hand source.

Edited September 4, 2007 by NickSomany

[pjc]

I'd like to hear from an AUTHORITATIVE, not second hand source.

Wouldn't we all. All the information I gathered researching ALiS panels before I bought Hitachi came from just about everywhere except Hitachi and Fujitsu. All they seem to tell you is the consumer stuff about bright picture, energy efficient blah blah blah.... I am certainly no authority on ALiS but enjoy hypothesising what it can and can't do. Who is to say the new ASiL panel doen't have a refresh rate of 120Hz ... I don't know. As most film sourced 1080p is at 24 hz, 60Hz refresh is able to render progressive signal on an ALiS panel. Even my old 8800 will able to display 1080p material by selecting 1080i output from HDDVD/BR and I should not get any loss of information wrt frame rate (not talking the native resolution of the panel here)

Philip

[denzil1]

Wouldn't we all. All the information I gathered researching ALiS panels before I bought Hitachi came from just about everywhere except Hitachi and Fujitsu. All they seem to tell you is the consumer stuff about bright picture, energy efficient blah blah blah.... I am certainly no authority on ALiS but enjoy hypothesising what it can and can't do. Who is to say the new ASiL panel doen't have a refresh rate of 120Hz ... I don't know. As most film sourced 1080p is at 24 hz, 60Hz refresh is able to render progressive signal on an ALiS panel. Even my old 8800 will able to display 1080p material by selecting 1080i output from HDDVD/BR and I should not get any loss of information wrt frame rate (not talking the native resolution of the panel here)

Philip

So the Hitach P50X01AU. I've carefully digested all the ALiS blather, 1080P progressive and interlace scan argument and I've thrown in my own observations of uninformed sales guys. The result is that having a close and careful look at standard DVD and the exceptional (don't miss this) Hitachi HD generated 1080P HD loop on the set installed at HN Balgowlah I m wrapped. I have not seen an 'off air' picture yet..But there is no doubt in my mind that the picture fed from the HD and the DVD cannot be bettered. I've certainly dispensed with my wild thoughts of going 52" LCD. NO way! This forum has ironed out a lot of questions..Thank you all. Now simple viewing is the test and it passes wonderfully. All I have to do now is get a the best price. Does anybody want my 2yr old 1024x1024 42PD7800 at a real good price?

Plasma reigns! ...as does Hitachi

[pjc]

The result is that having a close and careful look at standard DVD and the exceptional (don't miss this) Hitachi HD generated 1080P HD loop on the set installed at HN Balgowlah I m wrapped. I have not seen an 'off air' picture yet..But there is no doubt in my mind that the picture fed from the HD and the DVD cannot be bettered.

Plasma reigns! ...as does Hitachi

After all it is the picture that matters!! It is good to see Hitachi go back to quality as their priority!

Philip

[Cody]

I'd like to hear from an AUTHORITATIVE, not second hand source.

you've asked and your qestion has been answered by a few people now (that its an ALiS panel).

if you want to hear it from an "authoritative" source, send Hitachi a letter, email or give them a call.

why does it matter so much to you if its an ALiS panel or not?

instead, why dont you go and have a look and see if it actually looks good to your eyes? Isnt that what its all about?

[popro]

Had a look today at the new Hitachi at HN Osborne Park. HD loop was indeed brilliant. However, when I asked for FTA SD view, this was declined. The lame excuse was there is no antenna feed in this position. Also I did not need to worry as almost all broadcasts would be HD shortly. The salesman had to admit though that these programs would never be 1920x1080p.

This was the second HN NOT able to show me a SD picture. Deliberate tactic?

[denzil1]

Had a look today at the new Hitachi at HN Osborne Park. HD loop was indeed brilliant. However, when I asked for FTA SD view, this was declined. The lame excuse was there is no antenna feed in this position. Also I did not need to worry as almost all broadcasts would be HD shortly. The salesman had to admit though that these programs would never be 1920x1080p.

This was the second HN NOT able to show me a SD picture. Deliberate tactic?

Has to be a policy. Same at HN Balgowlah and Chatswood. Maybe command from Hitachi..No crappy FTA pictures..Doesn't matter unless the Tuner has a bad rap. but experience with Hitachi tells me not.

[pjc]

Also I did not need to worry as almost all broadcasts would be HD shortly.

How can they keep a straight face when they spout this drivel???

Anyway on a 50", sd shouldn't be too bad especially with a good scaler inside (which I hope it is).

Philip

[denzil1]

How can they keep a straight face when they spout this drivel???

Anyway on a 50", sd shouldn't be too bad especially with a good scaler inside (which I hope it is).

Philip

Now that we've got more info on the new Hitachi than the sales twits have to offer I find it interesting to see how many on this forum have listed Hitachi screens ialready n their homes, Usually the 8000's. What a dedicated tribe of fans we are. Hitachi should give us honorary sales and hero status. We're their best advocates.....and there has to have been some serious passionate analysis when we all first bought. ...and we're doing it again..what does that say about the product the new P50X01AU....?

[clarky]

Now that we've got more info on the new Hitachi than the sales twits have to offer I find it interesting to see how many on this forum have listed Hitachi screens ialready n their homes, Usually the 8000's. What a dedicated tribe of fans we are. Hitachi should give us honorary sales and hero status. We're their best advocates.....and there has to have been some serious passionate analysis when we all first bought. ...and we're doing it again..what does that say about the product the new P50X01AU....?

I to was told that i could not watch sd tv on the hitachi this is a bit of a worry. i did see it run at hn warawong it looked ok.still going to wat to see the pana.cheers

[blairy]

Saw this is HN Penrith NSW today...showing Hitachi demo loop.

Looked phantasmagorical...but with the manufacturers loop that is hardly surprising I suppose.

TV was set up in area on it's own so unable to compare to others. APEC public holiday tomorrow so may go back and see if they can demo other sources. Certainly wouldn't buy it if they couldn't or wouldn't.

[denzil1]

Saw this is HN Penrith NSW today...showing Hitachi demo loop.

Looked phantasmagorical...but with the manufacturers loop that is hardly surprising I suppose.

TV was set up in area on it's own so unable to compare to others. APEC public holiday tomorrow so may go back and see if they can demo other sources. Certainly wouldn't buy it if they couldn't or wouldn't.

Don't forget to let us know your reaction..particularly if you see other than just the great Hitachi HD loop.

[RXV3000]

All,

HN in Victoria have the P50X01AU advertised today for $4999 with 40 months interest free.

mmmmmm, time for an upgrade!

[NickSomany]

All,

HN in Victoria have the P50X01AU advertised today for $4999 with 40 months interest free.

mmmmmm, time for an upgrade!

Went into HN in Melbourne today to have a look at the panel.

It IS an ALIS panel. It says so on the box. When up very close I could see a faint flicker, compared to the neighbouring non-ALiS Panasonic which was rock-solid luminance from the same signal. However from a distance further than 30cm it was unnoticeable.

It was sitting right next to the beautiful Pioneer 5000EX, which was an unfair comparison really. Next to that king of panels (with a right royal pricetag) the Hitachi looked both over-sharp (ie jaggies on diagonals, noticeable bands of colour where there should be a smooth gradient) and lacked subtlety of colour to my eye (much more rich browns and reds on the Pio).

Some of these problems were instantly fixed.

The twits in the shop had the Hitachi running on component signal from a splitter box, whereas the Pio was running off HDMI. When they switched the Hitachi to HDMI input, the jaggies pretty much disappeared. However the richness of colour was still lacking compared to the Pio. Also there was very noticeable colour-banding in the background of the animated Blu-Ray movie (one of those CG ones with woodland animals and no plot).

The shop guys had bumped up the contrast to the max, maybe to compete with nearby over-sharp LCD screens. It made the colour-banding very obvious - when they finally dialled it back at my request it was a lot better.

SO my verdict, based on 10 mins comparing the Hitachi to the current king of plasmas: A good panel but not one for the connoiseurs.

Of course, you get what you pay for. At the price, it seems a very good panel.

Edited September 7, 2007 by NickSomany

[NickSomany]

I also saw the panel playing an SD TV signal, though I wasn't sure whether it was coming over composite or component input.

To my untrained eye it seemed to do no better or worse a job than the other nearby HD panels. Perhaps a little more washed-out than its Panasonic HD neighbour, but that was before the above adjustments to the settings.

It's just a fact of life, it seems, the bigger the panel, the worse an SD broadcast looks

[clarky]

I also saw the panel playing an SD TV signal, though I wasn't sure whether it was coming over composite or component input.

To my untrained eye it seemed to do no better or worse a job than the other nearby HD panels. Perhaps a little more washed-out than its Panasonic HD neighbour, but that was before the above adjustments to the settings.

It's just a fact of life, it seems, the bigger the panel, the worse an SD broadcast looks

yeah i just watched the hitachi loop and sd tv plus hd there was definitley a flicker at the top and bottom of screen they had $4999 ticked price but $4500 cash. spoke to jb hi fi and they will have pana next week they are going to set it up next to the hitachi at my request(excellent service) then i will let you know of my findings but at this stage i am going to pass on the hitachi and lean to pana or pio.everything i read from the states rate these two the best know mention of hitachi check out high def forum.com.also jb quoted about $4500 cash for the pana sounds good to me. cheers

[NickSomany]

yeah i just watched the hitachi loop and sd tv plus hd there was definitley a flicker at the top and bottom of screen they had $4999 ticked price but $4500 cash. spoke to jb hi fi and they will have pana next week they are going to set it up next to the hitachi at my request(excellent service) then i will let you know of my findings but at this stage i am going to pass on the hitachi and lean to pana or pio.everything i read from the states rate these two the best know mention of hitachi check out high def forum.com.also jb quoted about $4500 cash for the pana sounds good to me. cheers

Are you referring to the new 1080p Panasonic range, the PZ700A? If so I'd like to see that. What city are u in? Which JB?

[sandman291au]

I think he is Nick,but if I'm not wrong the imminent Pana' TH-50PZ700A does do full 1920X 1080P,but not at 24Hz like the new Hitachi..that is according to Panasonic Australia website,only 50Hz and 60Hz.What a bummer!

[blairy]

Went back to HN today and viewed panel. As others have commented in this post, HN cannot or will not or perhaps are not allowed to show anything other than Hitachi demo loop or BluRay demo disc. TV is set up in spot where only HDMI devices on the same stand as the panel can be connected.

In fairness, sales guy at HN actually tried...disconnected component cables (showing foxtel) from nearby tv's but no way they would reach.

I've spent weeks (months perhaps) viewing a range of 1366*768 50" plasmas and Full HD 46" LCD panels. Any source that is less than excellent will give a less than excellent image. Sales guy at HN Penrith NSW, reckoned he'd seen this panel at launch with ordinary signals (SD FTA, standard DVD etc) and acknowledged it was not brilliant but maybe OK.

Took the plunge and bought one...spent hours setting it up...all I've done is connect everything (well not quite everything yet) and I must say it's very impressive. Having low expectations of what fox would look like, I must say it's better than I anticiapted; even ESPN wasn't too bad FTA is OK and I was watching rubbish broadcasts. Standard DVD (PS via component Yammy C750B) was not as impressive as my old 76cm WS HDTV, but that did upscale DVD to 720P and did a good job. Just connected (new) XBOX 360 Elite and have time to type this as kids have kicked me away from finishing setup so they can play games, which are hooked up via HDMI, not even 1080P games and sheesh they look fantastic.

This is with settings as per out of the box - no adjustments, only setup I've done is scan for FTA channels.

First impressions...great...very happy hitachi customer...

Couple of minor negatives...no pass through for the RF cable (used to pass this through my DGTEC HD STB to AVR for FM radio - now need splitter I suppose). Also the only S - video input is on the front of the panel.

[NickSomany]

Went back to HN today and viewed panel. As others have commented in this post, HN cannot or will not or perhaps are not allowed to show anything other than Hitachi demo loop or BluRay demo disc. TV is set up in spot where only HDMI devices on the same stand as the panel can be connected.

In fairness, sales guy at HN actually tried...disconnected component cables (showing foxtel) from nearby tv's but no way they would reach.

I've spent weeks (months perhaps) viewing a range of 1366*768 50" plasmas and Full HD 46" LCD panels. Any source that is less than excellent will give a less than excellent image. Sales guy at HN Penrith NSW, reckoned he'd seen this panel at launch with ordinary signals (SD FTA, standard DVD etc) and acknowledged it was not brilliant but maybe OK.

Took the plunge and bought one...spent hours setting it up...all I've done is connect everything (well not quite everything yet) and I must say it's very impressive. Having low expectations of what fox would look like, I must say it's better than I anticiapted; even ESPN wasn't too bad FTA is OK and I was watching rubbish broadcasts. Standard DVD (PS via component Yammy C750B) was not as impressive as my old 76cm WS HDTV, but that did upscale DVD to 720P and did a good job. Just connected (new) XBOX 360 Elite and have time to type this as kids have kicked me away from finishing setup so they can play games, which are hooked up via HDMI, not even 1080P games and sheesh they look fantastic.

This is with settings as per out of the box - no adjustments, only setup I've done is scan for FTA channels.

First impressions...great...very happy hitachi customer...

Couple of minor negatives...no pass through for the RF cable (used to pass this through my DGTEC HD STB to AVR for FM radio - now need splitter I suppose). Also the only S - video input is on the front of the panel.

Thanks for the info. More please! Can you see the subtle 'flicker' from the ALiS technology, or is it rock-solid? Are you seeing any of the colour-banding that I saw?

V jealous of yr 360 Elite!

[betty boop]

Went back to HN today and viewed panel. As others have commented in this post, HN cannot or will not or perhaps are not allowed to show anything other than Hitachi demo loop or BluRay demo disc. TV is set up in spot where only HDMI devices on the same stand as the panel can be connected.

In fairness, sales guy at HN actually tried...disconnected component cables (showing foxtel) from nearby tv's but no way they would reach.

I've spent weeks (months perhaps) viewing a range of 1366*768 50" plasmas and Full HD 46" LCD panels. Any source that is less than excellent will give a less than excellent image. Sales guy at HN Penrith NSW, reckoned he'd seen this panel at launch with ordinary signals (SD FTA, standard DVD etc) and acknowledged it was not brilliant but maybe OK.

Took the plunge and bought one...spent hours setting it up...all I've done is connect everything (well not quite everything yet) and I must say it's very impressive. Having low expectations of what fox would look like, I must say it's better than I anticiapted; even ESPN wasn't too bad FTA is OK and I was watching rubbish broadcasts. Standard DVD (PS via component Yammy C750B) was not as impressive as my old 76cm WS HDTV, but that did upscale DVD to 720P and did a good job. Just connected (new) XBOX 360 Elite and have time to type this as kids have kicked me away from finishing setup so they can play games, which are hooked up via HDMI, not even 1080P games and sheesh they look fantastic.

This is with settings as per out of the box - no adjustments, only setup I've done is scan for FTA channels.

First impressions...great...very happy hitachi customer...

Couple of minor negatives...no pass through for the RF cable (used to pass this through my DGTEC HD STB to AVR for FM radio - now need splitter I suppose). Also the only S - video input is on the front of the panel.

wow nice one ! I havent seen these myself but by all accounts sounds bloody awesome ! congratulations

[nis200979]

Went back to HN today and viewed panel. As others have commented in this post, HN cannot or will not or perhaps are not allowed to show anything other than Hitachi demo loop or BluRay demo disc. TV is set up in spot where only HDMI devices on the same stand as the panel can be connected.

That's incredible. You're not able to watch FTA before buying an Hitachi from HN???

I'd just wait until other retailers get them and make an informed decision. At least then the Panasonic PZ and Pio 508 (reg HD) will also be out to compare it with.