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dish-oh

Low end receiver - ohm question

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Hi guys,

First post here, wasn't sure where exactly to put it, (receivers/ 2 channel), shift it around if you want.

I got hold of some Cambridge audio s30 speakers and are now looking for a cheap receiver to power them. Either a Yamaha RX-V461 or Pioneer VSX518. (i figure for my ears the quality difference between them would be minimal so I'm not all that phased which one i get). Both are around $400 give or take. Only query is that the pioneer states it's minimum as 6 ohm and 125wpc, speakers are rated 4-8ohm and 100wpc max.

Would I be smart steering away from the pioneer for that reason, or could the speakers run ok with/at/on 8 ohms and would just have to be wired differently? I've got a very basic understanding of ohms but always willing to read more on the topic :)

Thanks for any help :D

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does the yamaha state a minumum ohm requirement? Ive got the 661 and it says a 6ohm minimum. Ive run 4 ohm rears with no problems.

This question has been asked a few times and from what i remember that general answer is that it wont matter what the minimum ohm requirement is and dont change the setting to 6ohm either, it just sends lower power to the speakers. Hopefully someone can provide the correct answer.

your speakers will be fine on either receiver.

as a side note, my parents have both a Yamaha 461 and a Pioneer 817. I much prefer the Pioneer for sound, but the Yamaha is a lot easier to use

btw, you dont go by the same user name on ht.net/ns.com do you?

Edited by RockandorRoll

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Thanks for the reply.

re: changing the setting to 6 ohm - i take it this is done in the on-screen setup, rather than any physical changes to the rear of the receiver?

And yeah, Yamaha is also 6 ohm, not sure why i had the idea that it was 4-8...

There is also a note on the back of the Yamaha stating "When connecting less that 6/8 ohm (too small to read) speakers, refer to the manual for specific settings" so even from that it seems as though it's acceptable but not highly recommended.

Also from other threads, I've read that it's safer running a higher powered amp through lower powered speakers rather than the other way around.

Will 125w into 100w speakers be considered in the safe/ normal range? As would be the case if i get the pioneer tomorrow.

And yeah, that's me on ns.com - dont tell me I'm doing the audio equivalent of a nooby "which turbo to buy" thread :D

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Thanks for the reply.

re: changing the setting to 6 ohm - i take it this is done in the on-screen setup, rather than any physical changes to the rear of the receiver?

And yeah, Yamaha is also 6 ohm, not sure why i had the idea that it was 4-8...

There is also a note on the back of the Yamaha stating "When connecting less that 6/8 ohm (too small to read) speakers, refer to the manual for specific settings" so even from that it seems as though it's acceptable but not highly recommended.

Also from other threads, I've read that it's safer running a higher powered amp through lower powered speakers rather than the other way around.

Will 125w into 100w speakers be considered in the safe/ normal range? As would be the case if i get the pioneer tomorrow.

And yeah, that's me on ns.com - dont tell me I'm doing the audio equivalent of a nooby "which turbo to buy" thread :D

I wouldn't worry too much about the ohm issue. Just check what the manual says and follow any recommendations.

Watts RMS ratings for speakers are bunk. You are better off having more amplifier power to avoid clipping which with damage speakers at high load. I don't have any experience in listening to budget Pioneer AVRs but all the Yamaha ones I have heard sounding pretty good for the money. The best advice that I can give you is to arrange to take your speakers in and listen to both AVRs driving them.

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Thanks telecine,

They are at different shops so it's a bit difficult to listen to them side by side. I can give the Yamaha one a listen with the same speakers, but the pioneer amp is a bit harder to get my speakers to.

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Thanks telecine,

They are at different shops so it's a bit difficult to listen to them side by side. I can give the Yamaha one a listen with the same speakers, but the pioneer amp is a bit harder to get my speakers to.

Best to listen to both before you purchase, ideally with your own speakers but if you can't get something that is close to them to listen to. Another small suggestion; take your own material to demo/listen to. Material that you are familiar with.

Good luck, it is all fun.

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just a question, will you be listening to music mostly with these speakers?

If you are looking for 2 channel performance you are much better off with a dedicated 2 channel amp than an AVR.

if you want a mix of both then i would go the Yamaha as it has a Pure Direct mode

The yamaha will have an internal setting to change the impedence to 8 ohm, but you dont need to worry about that.

Ive heard the CA S30's with some other Cambridge gear, very nice stuff

and yes, this would probably qualify as a 'which wheels' thread. In which case i would say ' search, must be holidays and needs more camber' :D

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Yeah, bringing my own material was something I forgot when buying the speakers, but to be honest, I listen to a wide variety of genres and music quality, so it didn't matter that much.

It will be hooked up to my computer 24/7, and will be 90% of the time for music. I don't need 5.1 or any video processing but was having trouble finding a stereo receiver for around $400. The main competitor that I was aware of was the Sherwood gear, but to be honest, they felt and looked cheap, and I had read on numerous occasions of people having problems with their bottom of the range stuff.

The CA amp for $450 (cheapest one, forgot model number) would be awesome, but the tuner is another $400 on top so that's out of the price range.

I'm open to any other suggestions, but (like always) I've left it a bit late and will be buying one tomorrow...

In my mind I figure whatever i get I will be blown away with - coming from a panasonic $300 stereo system, but i will be keeping this for a while so don't want to buy a dud.

Appreciate the advice guys.

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i dont want to tell you what to buy but i would look at an Intergrated Amp. You dont need the Tuner with the Cambridge Audio gear. Thats just a radio receiver. If your hooked up to the PC then just stream the radio through that

there was a nice NAD 355 on here for $400 not long ago. You could try looking through the forsale section and grabbing a bargain.

Ive got a Sherwood AVR playing rigt now, they arent bad but you can do a lot better with your budget

i would go with this

http://www.grenfell-hifi.com.au/page.php?sId=138

and ask if they could come down in price a bit. they may even have the S30's there for a listen

IMO of course

good luck

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I was looking at the Azur, but ended up going for a Rotel Ra-04, cost a bit more but has MM phono input.

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I got an RX-V461 today. Does the job ok so far.

As tempted as i got down there looking at the 340a, having a tuner was something i did really want so i don't have to have my computer on just to have some background music.

One question, not sure if you will know what I am talking about, but there is a plastic grill overlay on top of the amp. Would i be right in assuming that it's just a heat shield? As it seems to be placed directly over where the majority of the heat comes from...which got quite warm today for the few hours running it.

Thanks again for the advice.

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yeah leave that on, they all have them

congrats on your purchase, i like the Yamaha stuff and it should meet you needs.... for awhile...

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Glad to hear that you made your purchase. I hope that you are enjoying it.

Don't worry, they all get hot when they are running.

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Thanks for the kind words

...already thinking of what i can save towards next...

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I might be a bit late to the table here, but I have a few comments. Receivers usually try to cram too much into the box. Because features sell receivers, corners get cut on one of the most expensive parts - the transformer. Lower impedances require a bigger power supply. As a result, the amp will be pushed into clipping sooner due to the higher demand. Your chances of over heating the amp and going into thermal shut down (depending on what protection is provided) are higher, and also the risk of amp failure goes up. The few receivers that are designed for 4 ohm loads like Nad put more into the power supply.

Used modestly I don't expect you will have a problem, but where you drive the speakers hard for an extended period you are taking a risk. This depends on the user - if you are conservative no problem. A manufacturer can't make assumptions like that and have to cover themselves.

My suggestion in general is look for preouts as a minimum. That allows you to add more capable power amps and more often than not this is a good idea. In fact, if you are considering a higher end receiver for better amps and SQ, you might instead just add power amps.

If you are a conservative user then no problem.

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Always happy to read anything relating to the sort of systems i listen to :)

What do you/ most people consider "extended periods" at high volumes?

Most of the time I am sitting in a 3x3ish metre room just listening to the speakers, so 90-95% of the time it's not even close to pushing the speakers, But i am quite partial to a bit of noise every now and then...

Another thing that's been creeping into my mind, is if it's possible to hook a single, larger, older speaker up, and have it play whatever is coming through my other two speakers mainly to utilise it's lower frequency range.

I have a solid amount of old 70's/80's technics/ pioneer/ philips and possibly sansui speakers around to choose from, but i only have 1 technics one (60w) so that would be the first choice.

Is it even possible? and if so, worth my while?

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The only thing I'd suggest along those lines is adding an "active woofer." That means firstly a receiver with pre outs, then an active crossover dividing the signal between the main speaker and the bass speaker before power is applied, then each speaker will have a dedicated power amp. For that much extra expense those older drivers would need to be decent. The alternative is to do it passively, but your woofer needs an appropriate efficiency. If it is much more efficient then you might have a problem. To make it simpler you could do it like a sub - get a plate amp for the woofer and use a high crossover point. If you do two of them and are using a woofer, then use the highest xo point that your equipment allows. 200 Hz is a good point if you can get that high.

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i wonder if you would get any benefit from just adding that single one in as a centre channel

then you would play music through pro logic (music) and set up the reciever with no rear speakers so no sound gets sent to them. Change the dimension and other parameters of the centre channel so that the vocals are mostly spread with the 2 front channels

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Paul spencer, that sounds a bit expensive and a bit more effort than what it's most likely worth. The majority of speakers i have lying around are low-middle end stuff, the sansuis are massive, and were apparently pretty awesome in their day, but I'm pretty sure the foam has gone on them.

I was thinking more along the line of what rockandorroll said - just adding it as a centre, but i wasn't sure if my music (connected from computer to the amp just by 3.5 to RCA) would be played through all 3 speakers, as I've had some trouble with this in the past on the lounge room surrounds.

Also, I haven't had a decent read of the manual yet, but is altering the vocals etc even possible on my amp being low end?

Thanks guys.

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the point of Pro Logic II is to play stereo sources as a surround mix. So yes, 3.5mm to rca will come out of every speaker when you have the AVR on PLII Music mode. Then you push the across arrows on the remote and you can change a number of properties of the centre channel (width, dimension and panorama)

Panaroma wont do anything because you dont have surrounds

Width changes how spread out among the front stage the centre channel is

Dimension changes how much you hear the centre or something like that

This wont totally turn down the centre channel and you will still hear vocals but it will be spread between the front stereo more so than the centre. Your AVR will also have DTS Music as a sound mode. This has very minimal sound from the centre and focuses on the fronts a bt more.

If you want to just use your old speakers as a sub, that would require something else (plate amp and sub out?)

no harm in trying it out, but i dont think it will work in the way you want

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Yeah, I'll give it a go, didn't necessarily want it just as a sub (would be pretty dodgy i imagine) just wanted to get something a bit deeper coming out.

Thanks.

EDIT: yeah that didn't work all that great, had next to no bass coming out of the 'centre', and only managed to get the centre working while listening to the radio. When the amp is playing whatever is on the computer it's coming through the "CD" input, and from there, i couldn't change it to 5ch, stereo, etc etc, it only stayed on straight :)

Few more hours playing around with it and i might understand half the features haha

Edited by dish-oh

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try changing the audio setting from Auto to the other option

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Not sure where to find that. Do you mean under the menu option 1) Auto setup and 2) Manual setup? Or somewhere else... lol i got no idea what I'm doing with it :D

Almost sounds like the large technics speaker is being limited to having the volume output of the S30's.

Doesn't really matter, a cheap 2nd hand sub will pop up sooner or later.

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there are a few subs in the for sale section, and some old Paradigms aswell

On my Yamaha there is an option that changes the Audio input automatically to whatever source is coming in. You want to disable that. Its ormally just a button on the front that says Audio Select. have a look through the manual.

i would forget about the technics speakers and just find a sub

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Yeah, technics will be marched back to the garage and put to sleep in its garbage bag.

Also my wallet needs to put on some weight before i go do more buying :D

Cheers for the help.

BTW, what's your user name on ns.com?

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