Another Convert!

[Guest alebonau]

Nostalgia? cant be if you never stopped listening to them.

Im not averse to CD's i have a vast and growing collection, but for me its about the music.

I certainly have lp's that sound better than any cd version of the same music point in case Spandau Ballet - True on MOFI which most folks heard at Andrews GTG. Joss on LP certainly sounded sweet and considering soul session which i played i have probably played around 20 times it didnt have any issues. It comes down to care of the software.

'Rice bubbles' can be gotten rid of , at andrews if you noticed my LP's didnt 'rice bubble'. The only ones that did were a couple of Andrews older ones that he knows need a clean, with a good clean and the right fluid that can be sorted.

[/b]

hehe just nostalgia for me as there was a good 20 years ? when vinyl never got a play due to a lack of a TT setup. Thank goodness though we never tossed all are records out though. Still there to be enjoyed. I was quite impressed at Fatgens jsut how noise free all the lps played were. Yes my nina simone one was crackly but given how old it was needs to be factored in. Still good music though. My jenifer warnes blue rain coat disc that fatgen ran through the vpi disc washing machine sounded superb. not a crack pop or hiss. great dynamics sound stage, detail, excellent bass response all that - top stuff through the linn lp12.

anyone know where to get the vpi disc washing machines from locally. With a squirt of cleanign liquid spread around the disc the machine did a top job suckign up the cleanign liquid and any gunk straight off the disc in 2.5 turns. The discs even looked regenerated ! well worth buying I think if your serious into vinyl and especially if someone like me with a lot of old discs that still get played.

[Mike.L]

anyone know where to get the vpi disc washing machines from locally. With a squirt of cleanign liquid spread around the disc the machine did a top job suckign up the cleanign liquid and any gunk straight off the disc in 2.5 turns. The discs even looked regenerated ! well worth buying I think if your serious into vinyl and especially if someone like me with a lot of old discs that still get played.

[/b]

there was a guy recently (regular seller) who had a couple of nitti gritti cleaners on fleabay around 1k

[JA]

The Audioholics Dynamics review is a great read ophool, and my experience tends to support the view of 'percieved better dynamics'of LP due to the lower noise floor.

The more 'black frisbees' I play these days, the more I enjoy the format and the routine that goes with it.

I must, however, get a proper record cleaning machine.

I am still coming to terms with the fact that the digital cannons on the Telarc 1812 CD didn't have the sonic impact of the analogue cannons on my old and worn Duetsche Gramophon 1812 recording.

Your welcome to bring 'The Boss' around for a listen any time.

[/b]

Hello Ajw056,

Are the Telarc 1812 CD recording and the Duetsche Gramophon 1812 recordings of the same performance or are they from the same recording master? I suppose they would really only be truly comparable if they we made from the same recording master-with no subsequent studio fiddling. If they are 2 sepearate recordings of the same musical event, they could also differ by recording equipment, probably microphones would make the most difference anyway. It would be good to know as another LP/CD comparison.

I was very impressed at Fatgen's GTG (thanks again Fatgen), with how good LP can sound. I had a Crystal Clear Records recording of Charlie Byrd made on Direct to Disc 45 RPM 12 inch LP versus the same recording on CD release (from the same master). The LP was definetly more enjoyable for exactly the reason you stated- dynamics (and I would also add extension). But the Storage, Cleaning, Fragility, Cueing, 20min playtime (even less with 45rpm 12"discs), pops ,etc.. issues give CD a modern advantage for me- convenience. That said- well recorded CDs can also sound wonderful. Unfortunately some/most commercial recordings are often so so.

Best

JA

[ozcal]

Gordon,

looking forward to hear what you think of that CDP.

Think I've already nailed my colours to the masthead on this topic, but this is an interesting read - http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsf...CDsDynamics.php.

Interesting to note that the subject of the OP ended up with a Technics 1200.

If I had known what it would cost me to get the sound I am getting now, I would have had a long think and probably said no - so I know where you are coming from Grumpy - but a bit at a time - hearing the improvements as I went - yeah OK.

The thrill of the chase, all the listening and re-listening and then the WOW - that's good!

Probably not reference quality to many people - my cartridge is pretty close to the budget end of things.

Picked up a mint mix disc of Springsteens "Dancing in the Dark" - sounds great - would love to hear it on AJWs Australs - think it might nearly cause structural damage to the building.

I seem to recall that in days gone past serious audiophiles had reel to reel decks - Revox and the like.

Anyway, I'm happy enough with my vinyl front end for now - might be time to take the soldering iron to the CDP again :biggrin:

Thanks for the wry observation Amfi, brought a smile here

- and I loved the look of Fatgens lovely wooden headshell in one of his pics.

We do like the look of timber and polished brass.

one good thing about music, when it is you're feelin' OK

[/b]

Looking forward to getting the 120 and if the CFO hadn't messed up the Christmas spending I would have it by now :biggrin: .Oh well good things are worth waiting for.

Gordon

[ophool]

Nostalgia? cant be if you never stopped listening to them.

Im not averse ............comes down to care of the software.

'Rice bubbles' can be gotten rid of , at andrews if you noticed my LP's didnt 'rice bubble'. The only ones that did were a couple of Andrews older ones that he knows need a clean, with a good clean and the right fluid that can be sorted.

[/b]

Hi el-h,

for my information (and perhaps others are interested), what regime, cleaners (physical & chemical) etc. are you using?

TIA

[Tony M]

Hi el-h,

for my information (and perhaps others are interested), what regime, cleaners (physical & chemical) etc. are you using?

TIA

[/b]

I think he relies on opening a pristine, new, sealed disc each time! :biggrin:

[norpus]

I think he relies on opening a pristine, new, sealed disc each time! :biggrin:

[/b]

:biggrin: I noticed that at the Sydney gtg

I think it is the American disposables influence they have in Qld

[Guest alebonau]

Hi el-h,

for my information (and perhaps others are interested), what regime, cleaners (physical & chemical) etc. are you using?

TIA

[/b]

not sure about hefty but fatgen used one of these vpi machines

http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AVPI16.5

[Spearmint]

not sure about hefty but fatgen used one of these vpi machines

http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AVPI16.5

[/b]

Hi Al,

I see AudioConnection has these.

Plus the HW 17 as well.

[Guest alebonau]

Hi Al,

I see AudioConnection has these.

Plus the HW 17 as well.

[/b]

Thanks spearmint. Good to know they are available in oz. I'll give them a call monday I think to see what theyre worth over here. If not too much will be the next thing I'll be saving up for

[KingClifton]

Yes we do, hiss, crackles and pops

[/b]

You've obviously never heard a truly good turntable (eg. Linn Sondek + Ekos tonearm + Akiva cartridge).

[Grumpy]

I thought the snap, crackle and pops come from the record; not the quality of cartridge? If a cartridge can't pick up the sounds of the S,C &P's how can it pick up all that's on the record?

True I haven't heard a hi-quality TT, I certainly would like to though.

I would love to become a 'convert' but I'm yet to be convinced.

[Drizt]

You've obviously never heard a truly good turntable (eg. Linn Sondek + Ekos tonearm + Akiva cartridge).

[/b]

Does a system with a total cost of $200,000+ count. Some people like myself just don't like vinyl

[ozcal]

I thought the snap, crackle and pops come from the record; not the quality of cartridge? If a cartridge can't pick up the sounds of the S,C &P's how can it pick up all that's on the record?

True I haven't heard a hi-quality TT, I certainly would like to though.

I would love to become a 'convert' but I'm yet to be convinced.

[/b]

HEY Grumpy ,what we found back in the 80's was that as you moved up the price range ,from entry level units like the Dual CS505 to the mid priced turntables ( Systemdeck 2X , Rega Planar 3 etc)was that there was a huge improvement in fidelity but also an increase in the presence of surface noise.Surface noise could be diminished with good choice of arm and cartridge but it wasn't until one moved into the truly high-end turntable ,arm ,cartridge combinations that the impact of surface noise started to become less obvious.Now there is a whole lot of generalisation in the above statements but it was considered a good general 'rule of thumb'.

If you haven't heard a top-flight turntable then I think you are in for a treat because in my now admittedly out of date experience , music reproduced on a top quality turntable has a sense of scale and power that few if any digital products are able to beat , the sense of the artists almost physical presence in the room is also not easily beaten by cd.

Gordon

Does a system with a total cost of $200,000+ count. Some people like myself just don't like vinyl

[/b]

What is it about vinyl you don't like D?

Gordon

[Grumpy]

Just how does a "better" system smooth over the Snaps, crackles and pops?

I have found with my system, the more I improve it, the more crap I hear in my collection of CD's. I thought that would be the same with TT's

[ozcal]

Just how does a "better" system smooth over the Snaps, crackles and pops?

I have found with my system, the more I improve it, the more crap I hear in my collection of CD's. I thought that would be the same with TT's

[/b]

It is the same to a certain extent however my hands on experience was that with proper matching surface noise levels did seem to diminish.Even a great turntable can't do anything about the quality of the recordings though :biggrin: .Having said that some stuff that sounds truly appalling on a poor turntable will make much more musical sense on a better quality unit.Try and find someone with a good and well maintained TT setup and I think you will hear why vinyl still has such a following among hi-end music lovers.

Gordon

[Grumpy]

So this won't pass for a quality TT. It's what I started with in the early 60's :biggrin:

[ozcal]

So this won't pass for a quality TT. It's what I started with in the early 60's :biggrin:

[/b]

HE he ,that looks like my first turntable , that my parents bought me when we were living in Australia the first time , back in the 70's.A bit different from my last turntable ,which actually sucked the records onto the platter to reduce vinyl resonance and probably cost about 100 times more than the 'Dansette'.

Gordon

[Grumpy]

I've mentioned before ,I think, on this forum that it still works.

The rubber record mat has disintegrated though.

Even now my current TT is an ancient, poor quality Pioneer PL100.

[ozcal]

I've mentioned before ,I think, on this forum that it still works.

The rubber record mat has disintegrated though.

Even now my current TT is an ancient, poor quality Pioneer PL100.

[/b]

If you could find a good condition Dual cs 505 , which sold for around 120 pounds in the uk back in the 80's I think you would begin to see some of the value in vinyl.

Most of the Japanese turntables of that era were direct drive or simply just poorly manufactured and therefore don't do much in terms of giving one enjoyable insight into your music.

Gordon

[Tweaky]

The basic difference between .[let's say mid 70's recordings as an example on LP] an their CD counterparts.

What's the difference guys,if you were to replace an old LP with the new CD of the same artist.?

Put them side by side and the difference would be like smacking you in the face.

The new mastered CD's are so NORMILIZED...as in trying to get the MAX volume out of the CD format .

Rather Ironic for a format that promised to deliver a dynamic range of 90db +.

You listen to the LP equivilent and THAT has more dynamic range than the CD version.

Go figure.......progress ,yeh right. :wink:

Put it this way.......

Experiment.

Play the same title on LP and see if you don't have to ajust the volume because it has become to high at certain stages of the album.

Do the same thing with it's CD counterpart ......you won't have to shift your arse......why?.....because all the dynamics have been squashed into a small fraction of what they used to be.

Why has this come about?.........Easy......RADIO PLAY.....If it sounds louder over the radio it picks up your attention....and is deemed better.you will go out and buy it.......well maybe not YOU.....but your KIDS WILL........ipod ridden little F%$Ks.

[Keith_W]

Why has this come about?.........Easy......RADIO PLAY.....If it sounds louder over the radio it picks up your attention....and is deemed better.you will go out and buy it.......well maybe not YOU.....but your KIDS WILL........ipod ridden little F%$Ks.

[/b]

Wow, that's some rant Tweaky! Did you enjoy that wine?

[peter27t]

Hey I can understand people not bothering with vinyl if they've never had a lot of records. What I never understood was people who sold their vinyl collections and TT and spent money on replacing them with CDs. In ten years when I will probably be forced to add a new component to add to the TT and CD player I won't be selling my CDs to get everything on whatever format ends up replacing it (they'll probably promise perfect sound forever, again).

And, no, it's not just nostalgia. If you saw my lounge room you would notice the cassette deck isn't connected any more, it may be connected again in the future but I certainly have no nostalgia for tapes. It's just that records have more presence and sound more musical.

That said, I am willing to take conversions wherever they come from even heathens can occassionally see the light!

DS

[/b]

Ds I am with you! Most music I listen to is blues. just to name a few .....Tim Buckley gretings from L.A. Muddy Waters Hard Again, John Mayall"s Jazz Blues Fusion and Turning Point, Etta James etc...I have all on tape, cd. and vinyl .On any system the vinyl is far superior .In my own opinion of course!

[joz]

Experiment.

Play the same title on LP and see if you don't have to ajust the volume because it has become to high at certain stages of the album.

Do the same thing with it's CD counterpart ......you won't have to shift your arse......why?.....because all the dynamics have been squashed into a small fraction of what they used to be.

Why has this come about?.........Easy......RADIO PLAY.....If it sounds louder over the radio it picks up your attention....and is deemed better.you will go out and buy it.......well maybe not YOU.....but your KIDS WILL........ipod ridden little F%$Ks.

[/b]

:biggrin: Did yopu wee the bed,it'd put me in a bad mood too @ that hour of the morning

But yes pop music thats designed for radio play seems particularily bad.

[peter27t]

So this won't pass for a quality TT. It's what I started with in the early 60's :biggrin:

[/b]

looks awesome gumpy! Is it belt driven.