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Roger that, Gazzz. Having just auditioned the Sony X 46" this weekend, I wouldn't have thought you'd be disappointed at all with that choice! Especially if you're using a PC to upscale most of your source material onto it.

So that's both Gazzz and dwhardy who are changing to the Sony X. Could I trouble you guys to let us know your thoughts on your new Sony's, since you've had some fairly 'in depth' experience with your SL models? It'd be really good to know how you both think they compare.

Currently, the Sony X 40" is going for 6999 (the 46" is 8999) here in NZ, which is a bit of a stretch for my budget, but Farmers has been selling them at 20%-off for the last couple of days, which makes them just within my reach. Of course, at this price they're sprinting out the door, but I'm not too worried, as if they're that popular they're bound to get another load in! Just spotted the thread on Sony X prices on this forum - wow, sounds like much better pricing over there than here, darn it.

CB

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Hi Charlie, Can't say too much here but put simply:

Do not buy 42" schaubs.

Okay, now the 46" x series here i will get for $4740 from JB Preston, which is like $900 changeover from the refund of the schaub, the $200 i won this week in footy tips will help too =D

My experience with both my SL panels has been bitter sweet. extremely beautifull picture, but the technology behind it lets it down.

BUGS I SAW:

upon switching from any source to HDMI, the HDMI source would sometimes be an all over shade of blue. Some more switching fixed this.

blackout / power off (from mains) Lost all clock, channel and audio settings

remote has bad operation angle & range

stand rocks (tv moves slightly when walking around the room and swings to a stop)

HDMI input will shake and refresh wildly for the first two seconds then settle down

Good value for money at the time, but the x series has come down dramatically since the 6 months ago I bought the SL, so i'll be taking the sony.

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Hi Charlie, Can't say too much here

Roger that and 10-4... :blink:

Do not buy 42" schaubs.

My experience with both my SL panels has been bitter sweet. extremely beautifull picture, but the technology behind it lets it down.

Good value for money at the time, but the x series has come down dramatically since the 6 months ago I bought the SL, so i'll be taking the sony.

Many thanks, Gazzz - that's exactly what I wanted to know. Your experience matches those of the people I know personally with the SLs here. Which means the flaws in the product are almost certainly more fundamental than 'just a bad couple of units'. And that's indeed a shame, because as you say, the picture is better than a lot of others and the features seem to be very good by comparison.

So I'm now down to the Sony X and the Samsung M81. The Samsung thread on this forum is going off - there's a lot of happy people over there. Might be worth your while taking a peek at one, Gazzz, if your new purchase isn't finalised?

Thank you again for your time and honest opinion - HUGELY appreciated!

CB

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just leting you all know I've joined the ranks of SL owners who are returning theirs. I've had 3 tvs in 5 months and they offered to replace that with a 4th but enough is enough.

Getting my money back from a certain retailer is proving to be difficult however I have consumer affairs on my side and are ready to act on my behalf if the retailer wont co-operate.

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Hmmm! I wish I had found this forum and read the info here before I went out and bought my Schaub-Lorenz.

I got the VMD-3700PH MK2 on clearance for $2450. I thought it was a pretty good price. I was going to get the Loewe Concept L 32 for $1999. But went for the SL because the Mrs wanted the larger screen.

I too was under the impression they were a German company. It seems strange that the high end specialist dealers are stocking them if they are just cheap Koren products made to sound German. I thought International Dynamics only dealt with top quality European products.....

I am now starting to wish I had ordered the Loewe instead. It wasn't instock yet and was due in later this week at the special introductory price.

Anyone have any thoughts/knowledge on comparing the SL VMD-3700PH MK2 to the Loewe Concept L 32?

Thanks,

Conway

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If you're happy with the PQ and it hasn't let you down yet, why the second thoughts. Remember it has a 5 year warranty and they're very good at getting things fixed if it does go wrong. I've got two SL 32"s - one was replaced within a few weeks of purchase - no questions asked. The new one with the HD tuner is even better than the first one, so no complaints here.

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If you're happy with the PQ and it hasn't let you down yet, why the second thoughts. Remember it has a 5 year warranty and they're very good at getting things fixed if it does go wrong. I've got two SL 32"s - one was replaced within a few weeks of purchase - no questions asked. The new one with the HD tuner is even better than the first one, so no complaints here.

I'm glad your second unit hasn't failed you allanjohn! After reading all the posts about people sending theirs back time after time I was worried I'd made a bad choice! I wasn't planning on buying anything when I went to the shop. I was just going to look at prices, you know how that goes!

So does anyone know who actually owns Schaub Lorenz? It sounds like it is an Australian (Encel?) company making these units in Korea?

I am actually thinking of going back and getting the Loewe Concept 32 at that price. Use that one as the bedroom tv! I just don't know how the Mrs will feel about spending another $2000....

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I too have recently bought a SL 37". so far im very happy with it as the picture quality has been better than all the other brands i had looked at.

as for the bugs n problems, i will be keepin my eye on that. I bought mine from Knox Big pic ppl and they do seem to have excellent customer service so im sure if any problems pop up, there wont be too much problem there.

i havent really had the chance to play around with the settings but from the preset settings, i find that the reproduction of white is just that...the screen will just be filled with white and it makes it hard to distinguish different shades of white.

anyhoo if you guys can pls give me a list of other things to look out for.

cheers

Red

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My SL is going back also. I got the VMD-3700PH, I thought it was the MK2, but I think it is the MK1 as it hasn't got the HDMI imputs.

I wasn't all the impressed with it after getting it set up. There was alot of ghosting, especially on any DVD that wasn't a new movie. (eg. Rambo,Rocky) and the PQ just seemed all over the place. Sometimes it seems fantastic, then other times it seems horrid. I really don't know if it was the settings or something else, it just didn't seem right.

Then after reading the post on Display Stock I decided I had made a bad purchase. Yes, mine was the Demo model, last one at that price. I though it was a real bargin.

Since getting it I have been reading alot fo the posts on here, I really should have done that before buying! But I went back today, and asked about returning it and upgrading and they said that was fine. I am changing it for the Panasonic TH-50PX70A. That seems like a much better buy, a 50" for an additional $585.

Red23 - what model did you get? From what I have seen and read the new models (VMD-3700PHF MK2) look alot better and seem to have less problems. As mine was the older model and a demo at that, that was the last straw for me. So if yours is the new model it should look and perform alot better then mine. And just keep in mind, if your not happy with it like I wasn't, you could always take it back! I am sure if you want to pay more for another tv they won't mind. I don't know how it would go if you wanted to get a cheaper set!

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hi conway,

mine is the VMD-3700PHF MK1. it was on special for $2,350 from $3,00.

i also have noticed the ghosting issue with dvds n in normal foxtel. specially on the face close ups.

i just actually had my first "not happy" encounter with the SL. i was watching foxtel n had switched to DTV. however it just froze and was stuck on "initializing". so i turned it off and on again and it started the dtv fine.

i just hope that these kinds of glitches dont occur too often or i will def be takin it back n look into something else.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Expect more glitches to come as those sets are plagued with problems. I had 3 of the buggers and demanded my money back when i was offered the 4th.

You wont find too many happy owners if not any.

hi conway,

mine is the VMD-3700PHF MK1. it was on special for $2,350 from $3,00.

i also have noticed the ghosting issue with dvds n in normal foxtel. specially on the face close ups.

i just actually had my first "not happy" encounter with the SL. i was watching foxtel n had switched to DTV. however it just froze and was stuck on "initializing". so i turned it off and on again and it started the dtv fine.

i just hope that these kinds of glitches dont occur too often or i will def be takin it back n look into something else.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Expect more glitches to come as those sets are plagued with problems. I had 3 of the buggers and demanded my money back when i was offered the 4th.

You wont find too many happy owners if not any.

Im another one.I paid $3500 at Crissy for a VMD 4200PHF, two month`s later i could`nt turn it off,froze up and lost control generally. I had to drag it into town (25KM) to get a so called "fixed and modified" motherboard replaced. I dragged it home only to happen again. This time i was really cheezed off.Rather then it slowely going from bad to worse it froze and then completely clapped out. I rang them and they assured me that "this time" they have definately fixed the problem and that they have employed there own Tech guy to fix and inspect before they send out. Once again i drag it in and wait yet again. I drag home and turn on and you guessed it, after five minutes i get this sound like a jet flying over my roof coming out of the audio . It then loses all audio and start`s clicking and popping before another jet engine sound UNBELIEVABLE!! I assume the other members have had a complete replacement where all i got was a "removalist" job and a replacement motherboard. The only plus was that they were "helpful" when i rang. First thing Monday i will be really putting the pressure on the retailer i bought it off who in my opinion hasn`t been doing enough. No replacement for me i want a full refund!. Sure the PQ was good and the warrenty long when i first saw the TV. I don`t think my back can handle any more SL!!. Do you think SL would refund the $$ without too much problem?? Or do i have to fight? Thinking of either Sony KDL40OX2000 or Samsung M81 or Sharp LC42PD7. The retailer is trying to push Toshiba he reckon`s none have come back. (but what would he know right!) NEC was mentioned also. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

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  • 2 weeks later...

I bought a VMD-4700PHF in December 2006, it exhibited problems immediately and was totally dead within 2 days. The retailer swapped it with a new one and I've been happy ever since. Are there any other 4700 owners here, it is mostly the 3700 and 4200 I see mentioned?

Chris.

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I bought a VMD-4700PHF in December 2006, it exhibited problems immediately and was totally dead within 2 days. The retailer swapped it with a new one and I've been happy ever since. Are there any other 4700 owners here, it is mostly the 3700 and 4200 I see mentioned?

Chris.

Hi Chris

I bought the VMD-4700PHF (Mk II HDMI model) in Feb'07 from Big Picture People.

My set has exhibited what I presume is the 'cloud' issues of some other users (corners and other edges of the screen seem to be backlit more than other areas). My set also has a horizontal 'shadow' about 1/4 of the way down from the top edge that runs almost the entire width of the screen. It's usually noticable when a light image is on the screen. I spoke to BPP and they organised a technician from International Dynamics to come out fairly promptly. The technician literally took one look at it and said "it's a faulty panel, the set will have to be replaced." That was at the beginning of May.

As I work within 5 minutes walk of the BPP store, I popped in and advised them of the outcome within a day or two of the technician looking at the set and writing up his report. They advised they were currently out of stock of the 47" model and they would contact me when a replacement was available. It's now almost 3 months later and I still haven't heard from them nor International Dynamics.

I haven't gone back to pester them yet because I'm waiting to see if a newer (improved) model comes out with the hope that I may get one of these instead. But having just discovered this forum today and read similar tales of woe, I'm inclined to push the issue, get a replacement set and if that one's no good, get a refund.

Apart from the obvious faults mentioned above, this LCD panel does suffer from motion blur - particularly when an image pans across the screen. I've also found the contrast to be just OK, with dark images showing little detail. These issues however are probably just inherent to LCD technology. Apart from this though the picture is VERY nice. Some of the FTA 1080i programs look sensational. I have a Denon DVD-1930 which does a great job of upscaling DVD's to 1080P and presenting a clean crisp image. I also find that, given the low contrast levels of the TV, the DVD player's ability to provide gamma adjustment helps improve visible detail in dark areas.

I went for an LCD over Plasma mainly due to the lower power consumption (this model is rated at 270W) and the cost factor (full HD large screen plasmas cost way more than similar sized LCD's). I had also considered Sony's 60" full HD rear projection model which is apparently rated at 220W and has (allegedly) a better contrast ratio. However the need to replace the lamps and the reduced viewing angle that I had observed on other rear projection TV's swayed me toward LCD. It looks like each technology has it's strength and weaknesses.

I'm interested to know if you're happy with the response time of your set and it's contrast levels. I watch a lot of Sci-Fi programs which usually contain dark images, so the contrast quality is a bit of an issue for me.

Cheers.

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Hi Chris

I bought the VMD-4700PHF (Mk II HDMI model) in Feb'07 from Big Picture People.

My set has exhibited what I presume is the 'cloud' issues of some other users (corners and other edges of the screen seem to be backlit more than other areas). My set also has a horizontal 'shadow' about 1/4 of the way down from the top edge that runs almost the entire width of the screen. It's usually noticable when a light image is on the screen. I spoke to BPP and they organised a technician from International Dynamics to come out fairly promptly. The technician literally took one look at it and said "it's a faulty panel, the set will have to be replaced." That was at the beginning of May.

As I work within 5 minutes walk of the BPP store, I popped in and advised them of the outcome within a day or two of the technician looking at the set and writing up his report. They advised they were currently out of stock of the 47" model and they would contact me when a replacement was available. It's now almost 3 months later and I still haven't heard from them nor International Dynamics.

I haven't gone back to pester them yet because I'm waiting to see if a newer (improved) model comes out with the hope that I may get one of these instead. But having just discovered this forum today and read similar tales of woe, I'm inclined to push the issue, get a replacement set and if that one's no good, get a refund.

Apart from the obvious faults mentioned above, this LCD panel does suffer from motion blur - particularly when an image pans across the screen. I've also found the contrast to be just OK, with dark images showing little detail. These issues however are probably just inherent to LCD technology. Apart from this though the picture is VERY nice. Some of the FTA 1080i programs look sensational. I have a Denon DVD-1930 which does a great job of upscaling DVD's to 1080P and presenting a clean crisp image. I also find that, given the low contrast levels of the TV, the DVD player's ability to provide gamma adjustment helps improve visible detail in dark areas.

I went for an LCD over Plasma mainly due to the lower power consumption (this model is rated at 270W) and the cost factor (full HD large screen plasmas cost way more than similar sized LCD's). I had also considered Sony's 60" full HD rear projection model which is apparently rated at 220W and has (allegedly) a better contrast ratio. However the need to replace the lamps and the reduced viewing angle that I had observed on other rear projection TV's swayed me toward LCD. It looks like each technology has it's strength and weaknesses.

I'm interested to know if you're happy with the response time of your set and it's contrast levels. I watch a lot of Sci-Fi programs which usually contain dark images, so the contrast quality is a bit of an issue for me.

Cheers.

Dump it immediately. Go and get the new V300 sony 40" LCD for $1600 (not sd tuner on board) for a total $2k you can get an HD STB tuner + 5 years Sony warranty.. www.sonycentral.com.au have them in stock, but any retailer should order it in for you

Seriously, accept that the Schaub is a piece of ****, with no redeeming features, put it behind you and get something else.

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Currently Schaub Lorenz (ID) have ceased sourcing stock from the current factory and moving to another due to all the problems.

Stock is months away I believe.

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Dump it immediately. Go and get the new V300 sony 40" LCD for $1600 (not sd tuner on board) for a total $2k you can get an HD STB tuner + 5 years Sony warranty.. www.sonycentral.com.au have them in stock, but any retailer should order it in for you

Seriously, accept that the Schaub is a piece of ****, with no redeeming features, put it behind you and get something else.

Thanks for the advice fish, but the reason I went for the Schaub in the first place was (a) full Hi-Def and (B) size. My reasons were that I wanted a big picture and I wanted to get a TV for the long term, i.e. get the highest resolution so that when blu-ray and HD-DVD players/software become more affordable I'd be able to enjoy the full benefits of their technology. Mind you, I'm fully aware that nothing I buy will be future-proof.

The Sony model you've mentioned, while quite possibly better built, doesn't meet my requirements for either of these. I figured if I was going to get a big screen TV then I'd get a BIG screen TV, and I've even found that with a 47" model the 'wow' factor wore off within a few days and I quickly became accustomed to the size - so I definitely wouldn't go for anything smaller than this. But it's a real double-edged sword: get a larger size LCD but the trade-off is probably more noticeable motion blur (I read a blu-ray review somewhere which suggested the particular movie would show up deficiencies on LCD's larger than 32"). However after looking into the V300 as per your advice, I also took a look at the specs for Sony's 46" from the X series (KDL46X2000). While claiming a similar 8ms response time to the Schaub, Sony claims a much higher contrast ratio for their model. Food for thought.

As MrFreeze (thanks also) has mentioned, International Dynamics may be sourcing new TV's. One can only hope they will be better. I can certainly live with my current TV for another 6-12 months (i.e. without getting it replaced just yet) in the hope that, with the pace of change in this industry, better technology is around the corner and I will get a better long-term investment.

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The current SL tv I have is the VMD4200PHF Mk2 with the matt-black finish instead of the glossy black. These sets have recently arrived over the past month. I have no lockup, motion blur or ghosting issues with these new models. I received a letter by International Dynamics last week stating that they apologise for the inconvience caused by the two faulty TV sets I had, and they sent a 'gift' - which is a Tangent radio - as a appreciation for my patience. In the letter, it stated that due to the rush to get the full HD models out, the TV manufacturer did not do testing before shipping out the models, and International Dynamics did not do testing of the TVs before sending them out to the stores.

Due to this, I view International Dynamics and The Big Picture Picture in Knox as having excellent customer support. How many manucturers these days do this? I think not many.

With the SLs, I would forget about the MK1 or the early Mk2 models, and consider getting the most recently - over the past month. They are the ones with the matt black finish.

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Hi Chris

I bought the VMD-4700PHF (Mk II HDMI model) in Feb'07 from Big Picture People.

My set has exhibited what I presume is the 'cloud' issues of some other users (corners and other edges of the screen seem to be backlit more than other areas). My set also has a horizontal 'shadow' about 1/4 of the way down from the top edge that runs almost the entire width of the screen. It's usually noticable when a light image is on the screen. I spoke to BPP and they organised a technician from International Dynamics to come out fairly promptly. The technician literally took one look at it and said "it's a faulty panel, the set will have to be replaced." That was at the beginning of May.

As I work within 5 minutes walk of the BPP store, I popped in and advised them of the outcome within a day or two of the technician looking at the set and writing up his report. They advised they were currently out of stock of the 47" model and they would contact me when a replacement was available. It's now almost 3 months later and I still haven't heard from them nor International Dynamics.

I haven't gone back to pester them yet because I'm waiting to see if a newer (improved) model comes out with the hope that I may get one of these instead. But having just discovered this forum today and read similar tales of woe, I'm inclined to push the issue, get a replacement set and if that one's no good, get a refund.

Apart from the obvious faults mentioned above, this LCD panel does suffer from motion blur - particularly when an image pans across the screen. I've also found the contrast to be just OK, with dark images showing little detail. These issues however are probably just inherent to LCD technology. Apart from this though the picture is VERY nice. Some of the FTA 1080i programs look sensational. I have a Denon DVD-1930 which does a great job of upscaling DVD's to 1080P and presenting a clean crisp image. I also find that, given the low contrast levels of the TV, the DVD player's ability to provide gamma adjustment helps improve visible detail in dark areas.

I went for an LCD over Plasma mainly due to the lower power consumption (this model is rated at 270W) and the cost factor (full HD large screen plasmas cost way more than similar sized LCD's). I had also considered Sony's 60" full HD rear projection model which is apparently rated at 220W and has (allegedly) a better contrast ratio. However the need to replace the lamps and the reduced viewing angle that I had observed on other rear projection TV's swayed me toward LCD. It looks like each technology has it's strength and weaknesses.

I'm interested to know if you're happy with the response time of your set and it's contrast levels. I watch a lot of Sci-Fi programs which usually contain dark images, so the contrast quality is a bit of an issue for me.

Cheers.

I haven't noticed any blurring and the contrast looks alright to me, but it may be that I haven't seen many others to compare to. I don't watch a huge amount of television, usually only Dr Who, Spicks and Specks, and Alias. My wife watches it a lot more than I do, as she uses the Strong 5490 HD PVR to record all the CSIs, Grey's Anatomy, Cold Case, Without a Trace.

Mine must be a Mk1 as it has a gloss black frame and 1 DVI input (which I use from the PVR).

I dropped in to visit our friendly retailer 2 weeks ago and he has his shop demo 4700 for sale as he said there are new models coming, but he didn't say when.

Regards,

Chris

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Thanks for the advice fish, but the reason I went for the Schaub in the first place was (a) full Hi-Def and (B) size. My reasons were that I wanted a big picture and I wanted to get a TV for the long term, i.e. get the highest resolution so that when blu-ray and HD-DVD players/software become more affordable I'd be able to enjoy the full benefits of their technology. Mind you, I'm fully aware that nothing I buy will be future-proof.

Mate, Full HD is marketing croc. At a certain viewing distance (depends on panel size), you won't notice the difference between Bluray playing on a 1080 panel or a 768 panel.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/12/09/1080p...to-screen-size/

Get a 50" plasma for $3000.

We'll all be buying OLEDs soon enough, so your LCD will be ancient technology anyway.

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