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laurie

Owners Thread Sony Bravia "r" Series (sxrd) 60"-70" 1080p

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Hi guys,

Looking for some help please! Got the 60" delivered today and set up nicely running HDMI out of a Denon 4306. Everything looked great, then when I went back to the TV tonight it had a green discolouration across the whole screen. Has anybody had the same problem or is is something so basic that I have missed it?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Congratulations on your acquisition, though you must be having mixed feelings.

* I presume the green effect is present at all times, even when watching video from the built in tuners?

* No-one has reported a discolouration developing so quickly. Is it a mild tinge, or very pronounced?

If just a mild tinge, it is possible the lamp is going through a slight change as it settles in. If it is a pronounced discolouration, something seems seriously amiss -- a faulty lamp perhaps.

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To connect the notebook to the SXRD you will need a DVI/HDMI cable (or a DVI cable plus a DVI/HDMI adaptor).

Once connected you should be able to select 1920x1080 from the graphics software on the notebook. You may need to adgust the DRC mode on the SXRD to get this to work and it is also desirable that the sharpness is on the minimum setting to eliminate distortions around text.

I have that cable. But the resolution options for the Nvidia 7300 don't seem to give 1920x1080, only 1440. This from the slider on the settings tab of desktop properties. And going into the Nvidia software doesn't seem to offer any more options.

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I have that cable. But the resolution options for the Nvidia 7300 don't seem to give 1920x1080, only 1440. This from the slider on the settings tab of desktop properties. And going into the Nvidia software doesn't seem to offer any more options.

To do the convergence testing, you don't really need 1920x1080. You can use a lower resolution (say 1680 x 1050 pixels - the same as your Toshiba Satellite Pro P100) and with many of these lower resolutions the SXRD will still map 1:1. It is just that the picture will only occupy the middle of the screen. I find that with my my 60" SXRD, 1680 x 1050 sent to the HDMI input maps one to one.

However to take full advantage of connecting your PC you will need a custom resolution. Some further thoughts:

*Once you have the notebook connected to the SXRD HDMI input you may find the options the desktop resolution slider allows increase.

*You can also try unchecking the 'display modes the monitor supports' option [When setting the desktop resolution, go to Advanced - Monitor].

*You could update to the latest Nvidia driver

*To get full control, including creating custom resolutions, you could download Powerstrip software.

*Ultimately you need a custom resolution that has active pixels rather less than 1920x1080 to overcome the overscan of the RPTV technology so you can see the PC's desktop in full. [i'm using 1824x1010 myself, which leaves me with a very small amount of overscan of the desktop.]

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To do the convergence testing, you don't really need 1920x1080. You can use a lower resolution (say 1680 x 1050 pixels - the same as your Toshiba Satellite Pro P100) and with many of these lower resolutions the SXRD will still map 1:1. It is just that the picture will only occupy the middle of the screen. I find that with my my 60" SXRD, 1680 x 1050 sent to the HDMI input maps one to one.

However to take full advantage of connecting your PC you will need a custom resolution. Some further thoughts:

*Once you have the notebook connected to the SXRD HDMI input you may find the options the desktop resolution slider allows increase.

*You can also try unchecking the 'display modes the monitor supports' option [When setting the desktop resolution, go to Advanced - Monitor].

*You could update to the latest Nvidia driver

*To get full control, including creating custom resolutions, you could download Powerstrip software.

*Ultimately you need a custom resolution that has active pixels rather less than 1920x1080 to overcome the overscan of the RPTV technology so you can see the PC's desktop in full. [i'm using 1824x1010 myself, which leaves me with a very small amount of overscan of the desktop.]

You have done your homework on my Tosh....unless of course you have the same one.

Thanks for all the advice. I must have a look at Powerstrip software as I'm not familiar with it.

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Congratulations on your acquisition, though you must be having mixed feelings.

* I presume the green effect is present at all times, even when watching video from the built in tuners?

* No-one has reported a discolouration developing so quickly. Is it a mild tinge, or very pronounced?

If just a mild tinge, it is possible the lamp is going through a slight change as it settles in. If it is a pronounced discolouration, something seems seriously amiss -- a faulty lamp perhaps.

Picture is back to normal, looks like the child played with the foxtel unit and dislodged the scart connection enough to be not quite right!

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Regarding convergence again....I have a hope in the back of my mind that Owen will buy an SXRD and then post a step-by-step guide of how to adjust convergence so I can do it myself.

Owen....over to you

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pietro,

How have you gone getting the notebook to display a PC image on the SXRD ?

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pietro,

How have you gone getting the notebook to display a PC image on the SXRD ?

Had a lazy day watching cricket. I will make the attempt during the week.

That Powerstrip software looks very impressive.....I would think a must have for HTPC owners?

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Regarding convergence again....I have a hope in the back of my mind that Owen will buy an SXRD and then post a step-by-step guide of how to adjust convergence so I can do it myself.

Owen....over to you

It is one thing to 'inspect' or 'examine' convergence, as per the convergence test pattern Dr Smith has referred to. It is quite another to 'adjust' it.

To adjust convergence oneself, access would be needed to the service menu codes. This is not a thing to be approached lightly. Service menus are intended to be accessed by technicians, not customers. Accessing a service menu:

  • could possibly invalidate a warranty (usually if you make a change within the service menu and save it, the date of save is captured and it will be apparent to whoever inspects the service menu that it was altered after delivery of the unit to the customer)
  • if a mistake is made, can render the TV unusable until it is corrected; it is also sometimes suggested that it can actually damage a television (though this would probably be a rare occurrence).

These sorts of things do not worry me a great deal but I'm sure they'd worry most people.

In any event, I'd be very interested in getting access to a service manual and/or snippets therefrom; if only to satisfy my curiosity. This subject was also raised in the main SXRD thread as follows:-

...

Owen, mate a point I want to provide with deep colour. The ati avivo video pipeline includes the feature to supersample 8 bit colour into 10 bit and higher depths up to 16 bit, for the likes of the 10 bit colour professional LCDs being sold. I have not been privvy to a subjective comparison so I cannot comment on if this actually makes the colours better or not. It is ofcourse possible to create your own footage with say 16bits of colour instead of 8 on pc animation but thats really not mainstream.

Having now come home from holidays to my 60" baby, I can see again why my heart adjulates this toy in the living room so much.

Whats on my mind is:

a) Having access to the service manual

:blink: Definitive answers to the UMR calibration mystery

I was wondering if it would be a breach of copyright if some us pooled together into a loosely formed partnership and split the costs for the service manual between us? We could say something like were a partnership of enthusiasts and were sharing the information we bough between us?

I have not found a source for an Oz model SXRD service manual; however the US model should be basically identical in the service menu.

A US model manual can be ordered on line for $20.

I am reasonably confident I know what UMR is up to, and it’s not a big mystery.

When I get a manual and time to play with my test instruments and the SXRD, I recon I well get it sussed.

Owen, can you give us the reference to the manual for the similar US SXRD model, that can be ordered online?

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So there is no test pattern in the service menu for convergence testing!!

cheers laurie

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When the tech came to adjust the convergence on mine (~20th December), the service manual that he had was a copy printed on single sheets of paper from a version he had downloaded from Sony and that was on his second visit. He had no service manual at all on his first visit. Clearly, there were not too many SXRD service manuals floating around (if any) then and I suspect that is still the case being just after Christmas. When they do become available, I too would be interested in purchasing one. Even if I never use it to adjust anything, I can still read it and learn more about the SXRD.

Even though he had the manual, it still took him some time to find his way around the service menu options to get to the convergence adjustment. To make matters worse there was an error in the service manual that he had (so he claimed) and that it was his knowledge on the service menu's of other Sony rear pro's that enabled him to overcome that hurdle.

From what I saw, I agree that service menu adjustments are only for those who have a detailed knowledge about what they are doing.

So there is no test pattern in the service menu for convergence testing!!

cheers laurie

The tech never mentioned a test pattern within the service menu, but at the time I did not ask. He may have found it easier to use the PC test patterns I had on the screen than look for a service test pattern if it did exist.

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Regarding convergence again....I have a hope in the back of my mind that Owen will buy an SXRD and then post a step-by-step guide of how to adjust convergence so I can do it myself.

Owen....over to you

Ahrrr ... aint we all? :P:blink::D

Edit: apology for posting without being an owner! :P

Edited by eyestrain

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I had a play around in the service menu and it's not very intuitive without a service manual compared to my old JVC CRT which had everything in plain English. I did eventually find the convergence settings but I wasn't able to improve on the original settings - not surprising since I was quite happy with the convergence. It seems that mine was setup optimally from the factory.

The menus aren't for the faint hearted so I wouldn't attempt it unless you're experienced.

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I had a play around in the service menu and it's not very intuitive without a service manual compared to my old JVC CRT which had everything in plain English. I did eventually find the convergence settings but I wasn't able to improve on the original settings - not surprising since I was quite happy with the convergence. It seems that mine was setup optimally from the factory.

The menus aren't for the faint hearted so I wouldn't attempt it unless you're experienced.

Some of the menu abbreviations can be guessed at. In my case there was an advantage in raising blue by 1 pixel; but I can understand why the factory setting was as it was. It was necessary to look at a range of pattern combinations to find the best compromise.

Here is the pattern I developed for assessing the effects of changing the convergence settings. It is quite small (400 x 200 pixels total) and will occupy only a small part of the nominal 1920x 1080 screen of the RPTV.

Here is a gif double snapshot of the improvement for text on my 60" SXRD; note particularly the text on the right-hand side (black on a white background).

Here is a gif double snapshot showing the change in pixel position for blue, demonstrated with a cross-hair pattern.

Here is a gif double snapshot showing the deterioration in fine pixel detail when the 60" SXRD was set to overscan (Display Area setting of -1, rather than the default Display Area setting of Normal).

***********************************************************

And how is it done? A general explanation appears here, but in fact the adjustments on our SXRDs appear to be in 1 pixel steps, not 2, and vertical adjustments are indeed possible. And an excellent fuller explanation appears here.

**WARNING** At own risk. If you make a mistake it could be very costly. These adjustments are intended for use by technicians, not customers.

Commence with SXRD turned off (in standby mode).

On the remote control, press [i+], [5], [vol+],[TV On button] in quick succession.

Press [Prev channel button (underneath 9)], to navigate to 'Panel Service'.

[2] and [5] are used to step through menu headings. [1]and [4] are used to step through menu sub-headings.

Required menu heading is 1 TG. Horizontal adjustments are at menu subheadings 1, 2 and 3. Vertical at subheadings 25, 26, and 27. Use [3] and [6] to change values. Observe the change on the screen. Don't adjust anything you are not sure of. If in doubt always return values to what they were.

To revert entries to their last saved values, press [9] then [0].

If you are sure you want to save changes, press [mute] which will cause the screen to display the word WRITE in green, then immediately press [0] which will cause the word WRITE to change to red, confirming the save.

Note, when reading the American instructions:

*The jump key means the key beneath the 9 (the previous channel key)

*The ENTER or ENT key means the [0] key

*The [0] key means the [9] key

Edited by MLXXX

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It is one thing to 'inspect' or 'examine' convergence, as per the convergence test pattern Dr Smith has referred to. It is quite another to 'adjust' it.

I used to adjust the convergence on my 3 Tosh RPTVs via the service menu without any problems. But they did have the grid method which was quite simple. The SXRD does sound more complex.

It seems to me as if the average Sony tech is not going to find it an easy task, but the obvious advantage is that if they bugger it you'll be covered. At least I hope that would be the case.

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Just thought I'd mention that mine did the reset thing today. I was sitting there watching a DVD and all of a sudden the screen went black and the green power light started flashing like it does when you first turn it on.

This is the first time that it's done it to me - about 200 hours of viewing so far. It's by far the hottest day that I've been watching the TV so maybe it's heat related??

Got our replacement SXRD 60 last Tuesday. Thought I’d wait a few days before posting any comparisons and observations:

1. Not quite as sharp (focussed?) out of the box.

2. Screen geometry not quite as good (horizontal framing bars are not perfectly straight with letterboxed movies).

3. Cooling fan about the same.

4. Over the last week, colour impurity becoming more pronounced. Not magenta this time. Rather a green cast along the bottom quarter spreading up both sides; becoming slightly bluish at the top; with a “neutral” shade in the centre screen area. No improvement after warm-up.

The green can be very distracting when there are pale areas such as light coloured clothing, and drought ridden, parched paddocks appear to have grass at the bottom of the screen. Getting worse, day by day.

Those of you who have followed my earlier comments in the long thread may recall my saying, “Better the devil you know”. Overall, the previous SXRD was better.

To top it off, on Sunday night, about 9.00 p.m. it powered down by itself. The screen went black. The green LED on the bottom of the frame flashed for a while before the picture resumed. No deep purple this time.

For those who have not followed my posts in the other thead, I have now had TWO 60” SXRDs, both of which have shut down by themselves! ! :P

There is no heat problem in the room; ducted A/C throughout.

The UPS was connected via surge protection and battery backup.

There was no “squawk” indicating transfer to backup.

No flicker in the mains power. No clocks, etc. to be reset.

I ‘phoned Sony yesterday but could only speak to Customer Service who had to go and get comments from Technical.

Came back with 3 options:

1. Return the unit and request a replacement. Made the comment that the unusual coincidence of shut down would be unlikely to occur again. :blink:

My earlier mention of other reports of similar “shut down” events was poorly deflected by the usual “millions sold - very small number of problems”. (I would be very interested to know just how many Australian SXRD 60s have been purchased. There have been only two in our area.)

2. Get an electrician to check our mains supply. :P

3. Contact our local Sony Service Centre.

I said I would speak to the local Sony Centre but also established that if the problem could not be traced within a few days, I would insist on either a replacement or a refund. Customer Service agreed.

I ‘phoned the local bloke who scoffed at the suggestion to have the mains power supply checked. He is going to get back to me after he’s discussed with Sony.

Any other owners out there with more reports of similar events?

Not wishing to put a damper on proceedings, folks. Just reporting as it is. :P

But wait, there’s more!

Last night, when the SXRD was switched on, there was practically NO GREEN CAST! ! !

Don’t know if it is permanent but the improvement is incredible. WHY, WHY? ? ? - has something been reset since the power down? All my settings are still there.

Constructive comments and suggestions are most welcome. :D

Regarding the cooling fan noise, as reported by some. I have observed a difference in noise level depending on seating position, in our room. Also, when I stand up the noise almost disappears (not a comfortable viewing position though :P ). As well, the fan noise subsides if the set is moved further away from the wall (could try some wall fixed damping material). From my point of view, in our circumstances, the fan noise is not a high priority at this stage.

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If its shutting down by itself it's heat. If you can hear the fan while sitting in your room are you sure the fan isn't too close to a wall restricting airflow? I have my 60 in a small room and the only time I hear the fan faintly is when it is running at its higher speed with every other noise in the room shut off. And this is when the room temp was 30 degrees. (and it didn't shut down because of heat)

Then again it could be the harmonic riddled triangle waves coming out of the UPS.

The colour cast changes seem to be coming from the bulb as it ages. Mine did that in the early days of operation but has now settled down to be perfect across the screen. This has been reported by a couple of people.

Funny that you have had two and had similar things happen when others are fine. Is this a pattern appearing?

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Got our replacement SXRD 60 last Tuesday. Thought I’d wait a few days before posting any comparisons and observations:

1. Not quite as sharp (focussed?) out of the box.

2. Screen geometry not quite as good (horizontal framing bars are not perfectly straight with letterboxed movies).

3. Cooling fan about the same.

4. Over the last week, colour impurity becoming more pronounced. Not magenta this time. Rather a green cast along the bottom quarter spreading up both sides; becoming slightly bluish at the top; with a “neutral” shade in the centre screen area. No improvement after warm-up.

The green can be very distracting when there are pale areas such as light coloured clothing, and drought ridden, parched paddocks appear to have grass at the bottom of the screen. Getting worse, day by day.

Those of you who have followed my earlier comments in the long thread may recall my saying, “Better the devil you know”. Overall, the previous SXRD was better.

To top it off, on Sunday night, about 9.00 p.m. it powered down by itself. The screen went black. The green LED on the bottom of the frame flashed for a while before the picture resumed. No deep purple this time.

For those who have not followed my posts in the other thead, I have now had TWO 60” SXRDs, both of which have shut down by themselves! ! :P

There is no heat problem in the room; ducted A/C throughout.

The UPS was connected via surge protection and battery backup.

There was no “squawk” indicating transfer to backup.

No flicker in the mains power. No clocks, etc. to be reset.

I ‘phoned Sony yesterday but could only speak to Customer Service who had to go and get comments from Technical.

Came back with 3 options:

1. Return the unit and request a replacement. Made the comment that the unusual coincidence of shut down would be unlikely to occur again. :blink:

My earlier mention of other reports of similar “shut down” events was poorly deflected by the usual “millions sold - very small number of problems”. (I would be very interested to know just how many Australian SXRD 60s have been purchased. There have been only two in our area.)

2. Get an electrician to check our mains supply. :P

3. Contact our local Sony Service Centre.

I said I would speak to the local Sony Centre but also established that if the problem could not be traced within a few days, I would insist on either a replacement or a refund. Customer Service agreed.

I ‘phoned the local bloke who scoffed at the suggestion to have the mains power supply checked. He is going to get back to me after he’s discussed with Sony.

Any other owners out there with more reports of similar events?

Not wishing to put a damper on proceedings, folks. Just reporting as it is. :P

But wait, there’s more!

Last night, when the SXRD was switched on, there was practically NO GREEN CAST! ! !

Don’t know if it is permanent but the improvement is incredible. WHY, WHY? ? ? - has something been reset since the power down? All my settings are still there.

Constructive comments and suggestions are most welcome. :D

Regarding the cooling fan noise, as reported by some. I have observed a difference in noise level depending on seating position, in our room. Also, when I stand up the noise almost disappears (not a comfortable viewing position though :P ). As well, the fan noise subsides if the set is moved further away from the wall (could try some wall fixed damping material). From my point of view, in our circumstances, the fan noise is not a high priority at this stage.

Reading this (and I'm sorry to hear of your continuing problems) makes me think yet again I should put up with slight convergence problems rather than let someone fiddle and maybe end up with weird colours, or having to get a replacement that could have further issues. As I have stated before my screen is very evenly lit, there are none of the strange colourations, and in fact (after 70-80 hours) the colours and PQ generally are living up to my expectations.

I have noticed the same thing about the fan noise. If I sit forward in my chair the noise reduces, and the same with standing up. Is it some sort of standing wave? Experimenting required.

BTW has anyone got round to looking at 7's tennis to see how clean the white lines are? Funnily the coloured edges seemed less yesterday at a different venue though I know that doesn't make sense.

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On a personal level Kendrew I am sorry to see your having such problems with your new display. I know the pain it causes.

What is interesting with your reports is that now you have a UPS that rules out power issues. You've previoysly confirmed in testing you can go offline from the mains the and the latch time for your standby modified square wave UPS is all fine with powering the Sony.

Whats twisting my noodle now is why the fan isnt auto kicking into high - you can definatly hear high if you manually set it via the options. The sequence is supposed to be normal -> high -> forced shutdown.

As for calibration demanding enthusiasts like us in my view should really get a pro calibration. As it comes from the factory it will be variable. Personally I am waiting to get mine done as there is outstanding things pro calibrators need to learn for our displays and there is confusion over how a US pro calibrator, UMR, actually achieved some things he claimed he achieved.

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Boy did I speak too soon.

My SXRD has started turning itself off constantly as of today (and it's not very hot today) The red light on the front is flashing 9 times which apparently means that it needs to be serviced.

I was told by Sony that I would need to courier the display to the nearest service centre (at my expense) since it's outside of the onsite service area of that centre.

Great stuff.

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I was told by Sony that I would need to courier the display to the nearest service centre (at my expense) since it's outside of the onsite service area of that centre.

Great stuff.

Is there anything specific in the warranty terms about this ?

I was given a warranty reference number by Sony in relation to the convergence correction on my unit to quote to the third party warranty service provider.

Have Sony given you a similar number and the contact details of your nearest warranty service provider ?

With a little luck, when you contact the service privider and you just quote the warranty reference number they may not mention the transport distance and simply add any extra transport charge to the amount they charge Sony for the repair under warranty.

If there is an additional transport charge due to distance, it's better if Sony pay it through their warranty if you can successfully argue a case.

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As for calibration demanding enthusiasts like us in my view should really get a pro calibration. As it comes from the factory it will be variable. Personally I am waiting to get mine done as there is outstanding things pro calibrators need to learn for our displays and there is confusion over how a US pro calibrator, UMR, actually achieved some things he claimed he achieved.

I would be very happy to have a professional calibration but it seems that the local calibrators don't have access to the service manual. To me they would obviously be the ones to do convergence, geometry etc.

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Boy did I speak too soon.

My SXRD has started turning itself off constantly as of today (and it's not very hot today) The red light on the front is flashing 9 times which apparently means that it needs to be serviced.

I was told by Sony that I would need to courier the display to the nearest service centre (at my expense) since it's outside of the onsite service area of that centre.

Great stuff.

I wonder what it is about the 60" that causes this problem that the 70" doesn't have?

HD tuner perhaps?

Different globe?

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I know "what ifs" are a bit pointless, but since convergence errors seem to be pretty even across the screen, why couldn't Sony have designed a simple "user convergence". A white cross in the middle of the screen with the ability to move the 3 colours up and down or sideways. A simple variation on the way we used to do it on the CRT RPTVs....I wonder if it is feasible?

Seeing that before people actually started buying these sets the consensus seemed to be that SXRDs didn't have issues with convergence, maybe Sony actually believed their own publiciity.

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