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dmann

Hd Gear A Waste Of Money!

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Please elaborate.

Taken from here http://www.dcita.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_...on_Plan_web.pdf

The ABC and SBS will be able to show an expanded range of

content on their digital multi-channels (ABC2, SBS World News

and SBS Essentials).

Free-to-air commercial broadcasters will be permitted to provide

a new digital multi-channel from 2007 and can increase the

number of multi-channels shown from 2009

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After much deliberation and testing I ended up following Choice magazine's advice and bought a SD plasma. I got the a Panasonic 106cm TH-42PA60A because the picture was superior to the other SD plasmas.

Thats great that your happy with your new purchase!

there is NO difference in picture quality to full HD gear, and SD pictures are far superior on a SD plasma than a HD plasma.

Thats just absolute crap. Just because you cant tell the difference doesnt mean others cant.

This is true whether you have perfect vision (as I do) or not.

No its not.

Don't waste your money on HD gear and don't buy an LCD tv, they can't display black properly and all have a narrow viewing angle no matter what they claim. LCD's are only useful as a computer monitor. :blink:

PS: Your plasma cant do black properly.

PPS: your SD plasma has the same viewing angle as a HD plasma

Special note to other readers:

I ended up following Choice magazine's advice

Dont!

Cheers,

Bitey

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Those four words are excellent guidelines for what may suit you:

Aesthetics - for example having right fit for your lifestyle and home setting. You could be in a unit, a duplex or smaller home where a 70" wide screen will be pig to own.

In my situation I will building a home sometime in 2007 and the home theatre room / lounge hybrid, furniture and decor will be greatly influenced by the size of new display. In this case I am going for the 1080p based Sony new light engine powered beast of 70".

Budget - there is no point in spending thousands of extra dollars just because of a HD logo on it when all your going to do is watch a Plasma 42" from 4 meters as a standard everyday digital TV viewing and DVDs.

My choice is also budget conscious and getting as much bang for buck but I defer to very large screen and the developed technology delivering huge screen size for my dollars.

Content - If your into DVD watching and standard everyday digital TV watching on a 42" SD plasma is ideal.

My content is different and a "hybrid" mix of multi-media sources freed of constraints of the normal delivery via STB and DVD players. I use the computer driven media model for all content. This frees me to use HD sources like American sources from the internet in true HD resolutions. We also have limited excellent HD sources broadcast in this country on FTA.

Distance - Viewing from 4 meters a standard 42" is good. Its light years ahead of ordinary TVs even in size ratios.

For me the plan has been already mapped and the compelling ownership of a 70" will be dominating my home theatre experience along with Dolby Digital spread over 7.1 (mimicked 7.1) or DD EX. That means a truly immersive experience in home theatre in the home. Budget is prime here and there is no need to go over board on the technology and cost.

So ---- taking time to explore all one options means there is no real conclusion one can make regarding HD verses the SD debate. Size, Room, Sources all play in a mix as to what is best fit for you.

The words, write them down before you buy anything.

Aesthetics

Budget

Content

Distance

DA

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After much deliberation and testing I ended up following Choice magazine's advice and bought a SD plasma. I got the a Panasonic 106cm TH-42PA60A because the picture was superior to the other SD plasmas.

The Australian Panasonic site is coy about how many pixels this set displays. At this web page the site advises of sets with the following resolutions:

1920x1080 [What these days is regarded as full high definition]

1366x768 [A very standard panel size which can look very good when fed from an HD source]

1024x768 [A non-standard panel size that can look reasonably good when fed from an HD source]

but lower resolution sets are given the description '1080p processing' and 'SD'. In a more detailed link, there is reference to a 'Standard Definition panel' but what that definition actually is is not mentioned.

The 9.14MB Owner's Manual for the TH-42PA60A, buries this vital statistic in what strikes me as a confusing conglomeration of data. The owner's manual located on this page states:

Visible screen size (No. of pixels):

106cmV

920 mm(W) x 518 mm (H) x 1,056 mm (diagonal)

408,960 (852 (W) x 480 (H)) [2,556 x 480 dots]

It is hard to imagine a more confusing presentation of the basic information of horizontal and vertical pixels. The reference to "2,556 x 480 dots" is particularly confusing. It might seem to compare reasonably favourably with "1920x1080" dots, which is a standard way of describing full resolution 1080p panels.

In fact the relevant number of dots is:

852 x 480 [an outmoded panel size, that can look marginally better when fed from an HD source]

An idea of the effect of different screen resolutions can be seen in the bottom row of pictures (London Bridge) I have pasted together here.

  • An 852 x 480 screen is closest to the last image (a portion of a 720 x 576 pixel screen)
  • A more standard picture is the one in the middle (a portion of a 1366 x 768 screen)
  • The full high definition picture (portion of a 1920 x 1080 screen) is the one at the left on the bottom. This resolution is only approached with a very high quality source such as Blu-ray or HD-DVD. An off-air picture will be only marginally better at 1920 x 1080 (see the top row of pictures).

It is true that if you sit far enough away from screens they all tend to look the same. That would include an HD screen displaying an SD picture. It would in fact look the same as an SD screen displaying an SD picture.

The OP [original poster] may have obtained good value for his outlay, and a subjectively pleasing picture appearance at his preferred viewing distance. But he obtained only moderate picture resolution.

P.S. Have just read DA's post immediately above and have to agree. Each buyer has to look at their personal set of requirements.

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There cant be too many SD plasmas still available these days.

They will be gone this time next year i reckon.

I agree. They're nearly gone already. Many of the SD models I see on shop floors are in fact just old stock of discontinued lines.

The HD naysayers are pissing into the wind. HD will very soon be the only choice for screen sizes over 37". And everyone wants their primary screen to be bigger than 37" (except the hardened tree-hugging leftie Luddites). With many 42" (1 Megapixel) HD screens now under 3k, I think it's fair to say that HD is on the verge of having its mainstream breakout.

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I have been thinking of getting the Panasonic TH42PA60A (SD), but weighing it up against the TH42PV60A (HD) which is only $300 more. When spending about $2k it seems reasonable spend the extra $300 and get HD.

BUT.... I will initially only be using an SD source (PVR) until HD PVRs become more reasonably priced. I have heard that SD input looks better on a SD display than a HD display. Is this true, and how much better?

I don't really understand this if true. SD TV is 576 lines, so some info is lost in displaying it on a 480 line SD plasma. How can this be better than interpolating some extra lines to display it on a 700-odd line HD display? (The Panasonic I'm considering is 1024x768).

In any case, the SD PVR should only be an interim measure for me.

Further compounding the issue is that I watch at 4m or more from the 42" screen, so I don't know if I'll see any difference.

I have *almost* decided on the HD screen, but I'd like to hear any comments.

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All comes down to Distance, Content and Budget.
I like this summary. But I reckon we could throw in an A to make it ABCD:

Aesthetics

Budget

Content

Distance

Yep, i like it too.

Its a shame distance is such an important factor, or we could call it the ABC's of TV purchasing. hehe.

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I have been thinking of getting the Panasonic TH42PA60A (SD), but weighing it up against the TH42PV60A (HD) which is only $300 more. When spending about $2k it seems reasonable spend the extra $300 and get HD.

...

Further compounding the issue is that I watch at 4m or more from the 42" screen, so I don't know if I'll see any difference.

I have *almost* decided on the HD screen, but I'd like to hear any comments.

There should be a more than $300 difference between the two. In the other forum the PA60 was bought for $1650 at myer.

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There should be a more than $300 difference between the two. In the other forum the PA60 was bought for $1650 at myer.

I've had no luck getting anyone to match that, and I think it was $1550. But what I have found is the SD (PA60A) for $1999 and HD (PV60A) $2299, both including 5 year warranty, delivery (worth $40) and a Belkin single socket surge protector (worth $39). I think that's not bad with 5 year warranty. This is at Harvey Norman - what are their warranties like?

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Bing Lee Hornsby have the PA60 for ~$1750 (advertised today in the Hornsby Advocate).

JB HI-FI Hornsby have them for $1650 (I was in yesterday).

DSE Powerhouse in Chatswood have them for $1800.

The PV60 was about $2K at JB I think.

NOTE: This is with the factory warranty only.

The JB guy reckons their price is below cost.

B

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After much deliberation and testing I ended up following Choice magazine's advice and bought a SD plasma. I got the a Panasonic 106cm TH-42PA60A because the picture was superior to the other SD plasmas. Couldn't be happier and saved a fortune that would have been wasted on HD gear. At a comfortable viewing distance far enough away that you are not constantly having to move your eyes/head to follow the action (very tiring) of around 3-4m, there is NO difference in picture quality to full HD gear, and SD pictures are far superior on a SD plasma than a HD plasma. This is true whether you have perfect vision (as I do) or not. Don't waste your money on HD gear and don't buy an LCD tv, they can't display black properly and all have a narrow viewing angle no matter what they claim. LCD's are only useful as a computer monitor. :blink:

Good to see you are happy with your choice, that's really all thats matters.

But.......there are reasons to get a high definition panel, and not a SD in bigger size screens (for instance 37" and above)

A SD panel can not even show dvd at its full resolution, having to scale it down for viewing!

A SD plasma panel has lower resolution then a good quality CRT, and this WILL be noticeable to most eyes at average viewing distances.

HD quality is definately noticeable over sd on a HD panel at normal viewing distances.

It comes down to the quality of the electronics, and the scaling on how good a sd picture looks on any panel. My Philips hd plasma is awesome with both hd and sd pictures.

More and more HD quality is coming our way on both free to air, and including with HD viewing with blue ray and HD DVD. You can definately notice the improvement from average viewing distances, on a good quality hd screen. Sure you most probably don't need a 1080 panel on a 37" or 42" screen, but you definately do need a HD panel to enjoy this extra quality.

Listen to Magazines that specialise in the equipment they are reviewing, not 'all in one' magazines who review everthing from hair dryers to cat food.

As I said enjoy your pruchase, but I disagree with what you are saying, HD quality is superior, and is noticeable on larger panels such as yours, and not all HD panels are bad at displaying a SD picture, with alot superior to your Pana:)

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For me the test is not the magazines, choice or otherwise - the specialist magazines have their own drivers that consciously or unconsciously include advertisers and their own sales, and the hype that is such a rapidly evolving industry.

And clearly pixel counts are only one of many contributors to image quality.

If you can go someway toward replicating the source(s) and viewing conditions (including room lighting and viewing distance/angles) for the displays, and the difference between HD and SD is imperceptible to you (or you think SD looks better) you have indeed made the right choice for you.

Congratulations on your "perfect" vision! I have perfect pitch myself, especially when intoxicated.

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Congratulations on your "perfect" vision! I have perfect pitch myself, especially when intoxicated.
Don't we all! :P:blink::D

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Wow, just went through all the replies. Most of them sound like dogey salesmen trying to part you from as much of your hard earned as possible! The sad TRUTH is that the only reason to buy a HD screen and any other HD equipment is if you have to sit so close to the screen that you can't even see the whole image. I know it is easy to get caught up in the whole HD hype but you are only throwing away money. Then I suppose you have to try to justify it to yourself and everyone else. Cheers and Merry Christmas to all. :blink:

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Yeah I agree the HD thing is to hyped up but I like to have a big clear screen at a distance size ratio as used in my fav cinema. The HD backups I have watched on a 42 pana needed more screen. Now I am happy. Ill second that Merry Christmas to all and safe healthy wealthy New Year.

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Wow, just went through all the replies. Most of them sound like dogey salesmen trying to part you from as much of your hard earned as possible! The sad TRUTH is that the only reason to buy a HD screen and any other HD equipment is if you have to sit so close to the screen that you can't even see the whole image. I know it is easy to get caught up in the whole HD hype but you are only throwing away money. Then I suppose you have to try to justify it to yourself and everyone else. Cheers and Merry Christmas to all. :blink:
Some of us are offended by being branded as sales persons. I'm a geologist! And at 50 inchs and up I disagree with you.

But Merry Xmas to you and yours anyway.

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Wow, just went through all the replies. Most of them sound like dogey salesmen trying to part you from as much of your hard earned as possible! The sad TRUTH is that the only reason to buy a HD screen and any other HD equipment is if you have to sit so close to the screen that you can't even see the whole image. I know it is easy to get caught up in the whole HD hype but you are only throwing away money. Then I suppose you have to try to justify it to yourself and everyone else. Cheers and Merry Christmas to all. :blink:

only person I seing justifying anything is yourself postign a thread ot jsutify why you bought what you did.

fair enough for you to believe whatever you want ot believe but thats no excuse to brand a whole bunch of others who know and believe diferent to you. doing so only labels yourself as an arrogant so and so full of your own opinion that you cannot accept that others might beleive otherwise.

by the way this whole thread is starting very much to read as a work of a common troll !

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Wow, just went through all the replies. Most of them sound like dogey salesmen trying to part you from as much of your hard earned as possible! The sad TRUTH is that the only reason to buy a HD screen and any other HD equipment is if you have to sit so close to the screen that you can't even see the whole image. I know it is easy to get caught up in the whole HD hype but you are only throwing away money. Then I suppose you have to try to justify it to yourself and everyone else. Cheers and Merry Christmas to all. :blink:

Why dont you go into your local Sony Central (or anywhere else that has them) and ask them to show you the 70" SXRD with a blu-ray source from 3m and say again that HD is just hype in all circumstances.

Saying its a waste of money in YOUR circumstances (ABCD's) is all well and good, and oftentimes correct....but saying theres no difference between HD and SD period, is just rubbish.

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by the way this whole thread is starting very much to read as a work of a common troll !
Hmmm, Good point. I had not thought of that. Treated it as genuine. Will ignore from now on.

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I've had no luck getting anyone to match that, and I think it was $1550. But what I have found is the SD (PA60A) for $1999 and HD (PV60A) $2299, both including 5 year warranty, delivery (worth $40) and a Belkin single socket surge protector (worth $39). I think that's not bad with 5 year warranty. This is at Harvey Norman - what are their warranties like?

I know theres a seperate thread for pricing but this is somewhat relevant to the sd vs hd debate

Myer offered to price match $1550 today without hesitation. $220 approx for a 3 year warranty if needed. I reckon $1700 with warranty should be achievable.

I was all set to buy the 50" 600a a couple of weeks ago for $4300 but am now leaning towards the cheaper option with the expectation that I'll be able to pickup a large panel some time in the next 18mnths or so for maybe 50%of current prices, effectively a two for one deal! The other option of course is the smaller plasma for all general TV duties and a 720p projector for dedicated movie and HD TV.

I bought a 32" LCD last week but will return it as the blacks are way below par, my 8yo loewe crt produces a far superior display. Hoping for better things from the plasma

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I'm a geologist! And at 50 inchs and up I disagree with you.

At 50 inches and up, I would not argue with a geologist. :blink:

That's a big drill-bit.

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At 50 inches and up, I would not argue with a geologist. :blink:

That's a big drill-bit.

I see yoru well qualified to comment on the topic doc, I wouldnt argue with you with your 70" SXRD ! either ! hehe

no holding back in the HD front for you is there ! hehe

ps you getting a hi-def disc player sometime :D

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Wow, just went through all the replies. Most of them sound like dogey salesmen trying to part you from as much of your hard earned as possible! The sad TRUTH is that the only reason to buy a HD screen and any other HD equipment is if you have to sit so close to the screen that you can't even see the whole image. I know it is easy to get caught up in the whole HD hype but you are only throwing away money. Then I suppose you have to try to justify it to yourself and everyone else. Cheers and Merry Christmas to all. :blink:

So what you're really suggesting is it's a global conspiracy on the part of the production studios, the networks, the electronics manufacturers, and broadcasting authorities.

Either you're having a lend of us, or ignorance really is bliss. In any case you're doing a very good troll impersonation.

Even with my conservative setup the difference between CSI on Nine SD versus Nine HD are immediately obvious.

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I see yoru well qualified to comment on the topic doc, I wouldnt argue with you with your 70" SXRD ! either ! hehe

no holding back in the HD front for you is there ! hehe

ps you getting a hi-def disc player sometime :blink:

Between the SXRD and the Logitech Z5500 speakers, I'm deaf to all arguement.

In the end there was no holding back. No matter how much I tried to reason it, I was never going to be satisfied with an inferior short term option while the technologies matured.

As one forum member said,

"Life is short, enjoy it while you can".

As for other hardware, I use the PC fot HT but my existing one is not ideal. A decision on modifications to my existing PC or a dedicated HTPC is reserved for early 2007.

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