Newton12 Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Question for X Owners: I have a query for 40X (or even 46) owners. I recently purchased a 40X and have noticed that when on an all black screen I can see some white patchiness (or shades). I presume it's the backlight bleeding into the picture? I find it's distracting, and particularly in the left corner it's irritating when watching a movie where a scene is very dark. Is this normal, or should the blacks be reasonably consistent? I do understand that being an LCD they can't do true blacks, but the inconsistency across the screen (particularly the bottom left corner) is frustrating. Please note that this is not noticeable during bright daylight, but mostly only at night. I can see it with ambient lighting on in the room, but it is even more noticeable with the lights off. Here are a couple of pictures to demonstrate in different lighting conditions etc: http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4928/img3775mg2.jpg http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2931/img3807cn1.jpg http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4962/img3795tc4.jpg http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2956/img3798lo4.jpg http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8370/img3784uo6.jpg http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1109/img3805ze0.jpg I'd really love to hear from any X series owners - particularly if there are any out there who's TV's don't exhibit this. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayons Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Yup - I too have the patchy clouds of lightness on my brand new 40" X. Only visible in low light or dark conditions and I don't think they are quite as bad as your pics above but difficult to tell with photos. Top left is the worst spot on mine. Together with "Mr Ploppy" (who's name concerns me greatly!) that makes 3 of us posting on this issue - hopefully we will hear from him soon on his replacement news and whether this is a fault that we can get addressed. I guess we're either looking at a bad batch or this is just 'standard' for the X. Keen to see what other owners have to say on this - good or bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony123 Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 gosh that doens't look too good hey!... i'd be calling sony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drsmith Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 If your images are an accurate reflection of the black level consistency, then it is very poor. I tried out an el-cheapo Pyrod brand LCD earlier in the year, and although there was some black level inconsistency (one reason why I returned it), it wasn't that bad. I can't imagine that this unit would be typical of Sony's flagship X series LCD's, so it would be worth seeking a replacement if you are otherwise happy with the TV. Before doing so, it might also be worth going to a retail outlet that has a darkened viewing area (Sony Central for example) and checking the black level uniformity on their display units. Black level uniformity on an S series LCD I recently saw at a Sony Centeral store (in the darkened area) was far better than your example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayons Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hey Highfed12 - question for you... what was your backlight set to when you took those pics? I have mine down at 3 and brightness in the 50's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton12 Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hey Highfed12 - question for you... what was your backlight set to when you took those pics? I have mine down at 3 and brightness in the 50's. Brightness was at 50. From memory I think the backlight was at 6 or 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayons Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 The plot thickens... check this thread out from the US... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....age=1&pp=30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magregus Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 The plot thickens... check this thread out from the US...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....age=1&pp=30 Reading through that it's certainly worrying, I was looking at these sets but I think I will steer clear at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MELso Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hmmm - that looks like the problem my Samsung(s) had (Sony and Samsung share panels). Must be some quality control problems in the plant. Interestingly, my Sony V series does not exhibit these problems (even though I've looked long and hard for them)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalpel Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 The plot thickens... check this thread out from the US...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....age=1&pp=30 Thanks for that thread - To save others having to read the whole thing .... Lots of complaints about uneven lighting (cloud / fog) - several photos there as well. Many posters suggest that lying the panel flat for a while (15 mins) seems to help the problem ( not something I would be that keen to do) Theory is that it is related to physical stress on the LCD matrix. Sony seems to not be aware admitting that there is a problem at this stage. Many people have the panels replaced only to get the same problem again. It is only visible with dark viewing conditions on a dark screen - so not helpful to see the panel at a store unless they have a dark room. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtractdigit Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 there is no problem laying an lcd or pdp flat or any angle as long as they arent in transport, the glass can break if transd laying down but you can run them at any angle you like. Look at fold down lcd's. I would lay it down whilst nobody is at home and see what gives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strange_one Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I still fail to see how Sony X series black levels are better than the majority of other LCDs like they, or reviews, state. I've seen DVDs playing in bright store settings as well as darkened rooms, and it still doesn't seem any better than what I see on everything else. The Teac that I bought has black levels that are far from great but I at least feel satisfied for the amount I paid, no way could I justify the extra $1500+ for a Sony with blacks that look like that. Referring to the OP's pictures though, that doesn't look very healthy and I'd be calling Sony. That looks almost unbearable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljraggy Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I Just Bought My X46 2 days ago mine dosent seem to have this problem... But the MAX display res when connected to a pc is 1360x768/60Hz as soon as i set it to 1920x1080 it displays it as 640x480/75Hz I thought is Panel BOASTS 1920x1080 RES..... waiting to hear from sony... Try setting the BackLight to AUTO in the settings..... Thats what mine is set to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalpel Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 But the MAX display res when connected to a pc is 1360x768/60Hz as soon as i set it to 1920x1080 it displays it as 640x480/75Hz I thought is Panel BOASTS 1920x1080 RES..... waiting to hear from sony... When you connect to the PC are you connecting by DVI/HDMI or by VGA. The panel does NOT support 1920x1080 by VGA, but does by DVI/HDMI (read the manual for the vga resolutions) J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayons Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Can we try and keep this on-topic? VGA resolution is clearly specified in the manual. It's not hard. OK... over at the AVSforum, speculation on the cause seems to be firming up into something pretty clear and it's making a lot of sense... "That was only speculation about handling it a special way, since no one knows who or what is responsible for this issue exactly. It does seem like a pressure problem. The "clouds" are what happens when you touch an LCD screen. Only, no one is touching these screens to see the clouds? True. I hypothesize that localized/uneven pressure points along the outer surface of the LCD panel acts to displace some of the liquid crystal matrix underneath which cause the clouding. As you said, pressing your fingertips against any LCD screen causes the screen to turn white where ever you touch it. The same thing could be happening to a lesser degree if there is any uneveness on the panel surface (due to manufacturing defects, etc). Laying the TV flat or rubbing the screen may have an effect on the cloudiness by spreading out or redistributing this unevenness (stress points). I hypothesize that localized/uneven pressure points along the outer surface of the LCD panel acts to displace some of the liquid crystal matrix underneath which cause the clouding. As you said, pressing your fingertips against any LCD screen causes the screen to turn white where ever you touch it. The same thing could be happening to a lesser degree if there is any uneveness on the panel surface (due to manufacturing defects, etc). Laying the TV flat or rubbing the screen may have an effect on the cloudiness by spreading out or redistributing this unevenness (stress points)." ... and... "A forum member posted a link to pdfs detailing mura defects. I think it's what we're seeing with these panels. The pdfs are here: http://www.orbitech.com.tw/doc/app-7.pdf and here: http://www.magictouch.com/Mura.pdf " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfatcat Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 curious as to when the build of your set was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodalenko Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Just rang Sony and mine is going back. No 'we'll send someone to look at it” or no "that's just LCD's". Very pleasant to deal with, and very accommodating. Almost like they were aware of the problem, though when I asked if they'd had any reports of it they said no. Mine is an 'October 2006' build. (May have some relevance). Just wondering how may owners have actually reported this issue to Sony. If you believe them I was the first. When/if you report it make sure you get a job No and document who you were talking to. If a heap starts asking for replacements they may start playing hard ball. Are the V and W series having similar issues? WARNING: If you don't know what we're talking about and haven't seen the light patches, don't go looking for them!!!! I just wish there was a quick and simple fix for this issue but I don't think there is. Apart from this one major issue, the X series is an excellent performer, and once sorted will be a brilliant set. Just hope that's exactly what they can do....Sony have had a pretty bad run lately. Hope they're not dropping the ball where there LCD's are concerned. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayons Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Thanks for the info Bodalenko... what's the procedure - do they send someone to pick up and replace with a new one at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfatcat Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 on the usa site all the people with this prob had october/september sets. So maybe something went wrong with quality control for those two months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutty Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Are the V and W series having similar issues? Like Surroundfan, i had 3 Samsungs with the same problem, see pic after my 3rd Samsung i'd had enough and swapped it for a Sony 40 V and couldn't be happier. With my backlight settings: Power saving high or low(am still undecided which way to go with this one yet) backlight set to 2-3 I'm getting pretty good blacks, no bleed at all. Even using the factory settings(no power saving and backlight on 10) i had no bleed/cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljraggy Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Mine is an 'October 2006' build. (May have some relevance). Mine Does not have this issue and it is "August 2006" Build Even with Back Light up to max and Light Sensor set to off I can't reproduce this issue. Call sony tell them you want a replacement..... Today2Night ACA anyone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX1979 Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I'd say this was backlight related and hence "normaL' as ive seen this on lots of LCD's, most recently the 42 inch LG. Its only noticeable if its a dark screen and it bothers you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croops Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I noticed this issue too last night when watching a movie (40")... The patches are are again on the top left corner and center right areas. It kinda bothered me a bit and got me thinking about the other people in here who have had similar problems. The only issue I have with returning it is: 1. I'll be without a TV while Sony replace/fix it 2. I'll get a new TV which will have a same problems again 3. I'll get a new TV with perhaps another worse problem The reality is that completely dark scenes (appart from opening/closing credit screens) are minimal and I could just put up with it. A question to anyone who has called Sony regardign the problem - did they come in and replace the set OR did they take the set away, perform a diagnostic and after assessing that you need a new screen did they replace it? If so, how long was the process? Thanx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodalenko Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Just been told that a new batch of X series are not due in till mid December, which suits me fine and hopefully this new batch will have any issues ironed out. You have to go thru your retailer, but make sure to call Sony and get a job No off them. Mine tried to tell me I'd have to pay another $35 delivery fee for the change over unit!! Told them that wasn't going to happen and they dropped the subject very quickly. I'd avise anyone that has even the slightest patchiness to let Sony know, even if you can't be bothered having it replaced. Complaing is the only way you will get a rise in QC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayons Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Just been told that a new batch of X series are not due in till mid December, which suits me fine and hopefully this new batch will have any issues ironed out. You have to go thru your retailer, but make sure to call Sony and get a job No off them. Mine tried to tell me I'd have to pay another $35 delivery fee for the change over unit!! Told them that wasn't going to happen and they dropped the subject very quickly.I'd avise anyone that has even the slightest patchiness to let Sony know, even if you can't be bothered having it replaced. Complaing is the only way you will get a rise in QC. So... Bodalenko... Sorry to bang on... but what's the procedure? Are you now in the queue waiting for the new batch and when they arrive they ship one out and take the old one at the same time? From the retailer? Or do you have to be without the set for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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