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Bravia X Series Patchy Backlight Bleed


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Question for X Owners:

I have a query for 40X (or even 46) owners. I recently purchased a 40X and have noticed that when on an all black screen I can see some white patchiness (or shades). I presume it's the backlight bleeding into the picture? I find it's distracting, and particularly in the left corner it's irritating when watching a movie where a scene is very dark. Is this normal, or should the blacks be reasonably consistent? I do understand that being an LCD they can't do true blacks, but the inconsistency across the screen (particularly the bottom left corner) is frustrating.

Please note that this is not noticeable during bright daylight, but mostly only at night. I can see it with ambient lighting on in the room, but it is even more noticeable with the lights off.

Here are a couple of pictures to demonstrate in different lighting conditions etc:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4928/img3775mg2.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2931/img3807cn1.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4962/img3795tc4.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2956/img3798lo4.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8370/img3784uo6.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1109/img3805ze0.jpg

I'd really love to hear from any X series owners - particularly if there are any out there who's TV's don't exhibit this.

Thanks.

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Yup - I too have the patchy clouds of lightness on my brand new 40" X. Only visible in low light or dark conditions and I don't think they are quite as bad as your pics above but difficult to tell with photos. Top left is the worst spot on mine.

Together with "Mr Ploppy" (who's name concerns me greatly!) that makes 3 of us posting on this issue - hopefully we will hear from him soon on his replacement news and whether this is a fault that we can get addressed.

I guess we're either looking at a bad batch or this is just 'standard' for the X. Keen to see what other owners have to say on this - good or bad...

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If your images are an accurate reflection of the black level consistency, then it is very poor. I tried out an el-cheapo Pyrod brand LCD earlier in the year, and although there was some black level inconsistency (one reason why I returned it), it wasn't that bad. I can't imagine that this unit would be typical of Sony's flagship X series LCD's, so it would be worth seeking a replacement if you are otherwise happy with the TV.

Before doing so, it might also be worth going to a retail outlet that has a darkened viewing area (Sony Central for example) and checking the black level uniformity on their display units. Black level uniformity on an S series LCD I recently saw at a Sony Centeral store (in the darkened area) was far better than your example.

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Hey Highfed12 - question for you... what was your backlight set to when you took those pics? I have mine down at 3 and brightness in the 50's.

Brightness was at 50. From memory I think the backlight was at 6 or 7.

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Hmmm - that looks like the problem my Samsung(s) had (Sony and Samsung share panels). Must be some quality control problems in the plant.

Interestingly, my Sony V series does not exhibit these problems (even though I've looked long and hard for them)...

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The plot thickens... check this thread out from the US...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....age=1&pp=30

Thanks for that thread -

To save others having to read the whole thing ....

Lots of complaints about uneven lighting (cloud / fog) - several photos there as well.

Many posters suggest that lying the panel flat for a while (15 mins) seems to help the problem ( :blink: not something I would be that keen to do)

Theory is that it is related to physical stress on the LCD matrix.

Sony seems to not be aware admitting that there is a problem at this stage.

Many people have the panels replaced only to get the same problem again.

It is only visible with dark viewing conditions on a dark screen - so not helpful to see the panel at a store unless they have a dark room.

J.

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there is no problem laying an lcd or pdp flat or any angle as long as they arent in transport, the glass can break if transd laying down but you can run them at any angle you like. Look at fold down lcd's. I would lay it down whilst nobody is at home and see what gives.

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I still fail to see how Sony X series black levels are better than the majority of other LCDs like they, or reviews, state. I've seen DVDs playing in bright store settings as well as darkened rooms, and it still doesn't seem any better than what I see on everything else. The Teac that I bought has black levels that are far from great but I at least feel satisfied for the amount I paid, no way could I justify the extra $1500+ for a Sony with blacks that look like that.

Referring to the OP's pictures though, that doesn't look very healthy and I'd be calling Sony. That looks almost unbearable

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I Just Bought My X46 2 days ago mine dosent seem to have this problem...

But the MAX display res when connected to a pc is 1360x768/60Hz as soon as i set it to 1920x1080 it displays it as 640x480/75Hz :blink:

I thought is Panel BOASTS 1920x1080 RES..... waiting to hear from sony... :D

Try setting the BackLight to AUTO in the settings..... Thats what mine is set to :P

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But the MAX display res when connected to a pc is 1360x768/60Hz as soon as i set it to 1920x1080 it displays it as 640x480/75Hz :blink:

I thought is Panel BOASTS 1920x1080 RES..... waiting to hear from sony... :D

When you connect to the PC are you connecting by DVI/HDMI or by VGA. The panel does NOT support 1920x1080 by VGA, but does by DVI/HDMI (read the manual for the vga resolutions)

J

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Can we try and keep this on-topic? VGA resolution is clearly specified in the manual. It's not hard.

OK... over at the AVSforum, speculation on the cause seems to be firming up into something pretty clear and it's making a lot of sense...

"That was only speculation about handling it a special way, since no one knows who or what is responsible for this issue exactly. It does seem like a pressure problem. The "clouds" are what happens when you touch an LCD screen. Only, no one is touching these screens to see the clouds?

True. I hypothesize that localized/uneven pressure points along the outer surface of the LCD panel acts to displace some of the liquid crystal matrix underneath which cause the clouding. As you said, pressing your fingertips against any LCD screen causes the screen to turn white where ever you touch it. The same thing could be happening to a lesser degree if there is any uneveness on the panel surface (due to manufacturing defects, etc). Laying the TV flat or rubbing the screen may have an effect on the cloudiness by spreading out or redistributing this unevenness (stress points). I hypothesize that localized/uneven pressure points along the outer surface of the LCD panel acts to displace some of the liquid crystal matrix underneath which cause the clouding. As you said, pressing your fingertips against any LCD screen causes the screen to turn white where ever you touch it. The same thing could be happening to a lesser degree if there is any uneveness on the panel surface (due to manufacturing defects, etc). Laying the TV flat or rubbing the screen may have an effect on the cloudiness by spreading out or redistributing this unevenness (stress points)."

... and...

"A forum member posted a link to pdfs detailing mura defects. I think it's what we're seeing with these panels. The pdfs are here:

http://www.orbitech.com.tw/doc/app-7.pdf

and here:

http://www.magictouch.com/Mura.pdf

"

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Just rang Sony and mine is going back. No 'we'll send someone to look at it” or no "that's just LCD's". Very pleasant to deal with, and very accommodating. Almost like they were aware of the problem, though when I asked if they'd had any reports of it they said no.

Mine is an 'October 2006' build. (May have some relevance).

Just wondering how may owners have actually reported this issue to Sony. If you believe them I was the first. When/if you report it make sure you get a job No and document who you were talking to. If a heap starts asking for replacements they may start playing hard ball. Are the V and W series having similar issues?

WARNING: If you don't know what we're talking about and haven't seen the light patches, don't go looking for them!!!!

I just wish there was a quick and simple fix for this issue but I don't think there is. Apart from this one major issue, the X series is an excellent performer, and once sorted will be a brilliant set. Just hope that's exactly what they can do....Sony have had a pretty bad run lately. Hope they're not dropping the ball where there LCD's are concerned.

Steve

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Are the V and W series having similar issues?

Like Surroundfan, i had 3 Samsungs with the same problem, see pic after my 3rd Samsung i'd had enough and swapped it for a Sony 40 V and couldn't be happier.

With my backlight settings:

Power saving high or low(am still undecided which way to go with this one yet)

backlight set to 2-3

I'm getting pretty good blacks, no bleed at all.

Even using the factory settings(no power saving and backlight on 10) i had no bleed/cloud.

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Mine is an 'October 2006' build. (May have some relevance).

Mine Does not have this issue and it is "August 2006" Build

Even with Back Light up to max and Light Sensor set to off I can't reproduce this issue.

Call sony tell them you want a replacement..... :blink: Today2Night ACA anyone.... :D

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I noticed this issue too last night when watching a movie (40")...

The patches are are again on the top left corner and center right areas. It kinda bothered me a bit and got me thinking about the other people in here who have had similar problems.

The only issue I have with returning it is:

1. I'll be without a TV while Sony replace/fix it

2. I'll get a new TV which will have a same problems again

3. I'll get a new TV with perhaps another worse problem

The reality is that completely dark scenes (appart from opening/closing credit screens) are minimal and I could just put up with it.

A question to anyone who has called Sony regardign the problem - did they come in and replace the set OR did they take the set away, perform a diagnostic and after assessing that you need a new screen did they replace it? If so, how long was the process?

Thanx!

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Just been told that a new batch of X series are not due in till mid December, which suits me fine and hopefully this new batch will have any issues ironed out. You have to go thru your retailer, but make sure to call Sony and get a job No off them. Mine tried to tell me I'd have to pay another $35 delivery fee for the change over unit!! Told them that wasn't going to happen and they dropped the subject very quickly.

I'd avise anyone that has even the slightest patchiness to let Sony know, even if you can't be bothered having it replaced. Complaing is the only way you will get a rise in QC.

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Just been told that a new batch of X series are not due in till mid December, which suits me fine and hopefully this new batch will have any issues ironed out. You have to go thru your retailer, but make sure to call Sony and get a job No off them. Mine tried to tell me I'd have to pay another $35 delivery fee for the change over unit!! Told them that wasn't going to happen and they dropped the subject very quickly.

I'd avise anyone that has even the slightest patchiness to let Sony know, even if you can't be bothered having it replaced. Complaing is the only way you will get a rise in QC.

So... Bodalenko... Sorry to bang on... but what's the procedure? Are you now in the queue waiting for the new batch and when they arrive they ship one out and take the old one at the same time? From the retailer? Or do you have to be without the set for a while?

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If there is a waiting period for a replacement unit, then to me it is perfectly reasonable to retain the existing unit until the replacement is delivered. The TV has been paid for after all.

To some extent it comes down to how well individual owners of the faulty units can negotiate replacement terms.

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Retailer has put a normal order in for one from the new shipment. When it arrives (2 weeks) they call me, I repack this one and they bring out the new one and exchange is done. The one I have setup and hanging on the wall stays until the new one is available. It's still very watchable just not up to scratch.

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I have a 40" X Series - and I don't think I have this problem.

Not sure where you find which "build" each television was in - but if someone can tell me where it is - I'm happy to edit my post.

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To be honest, those pictures look pretty normal for an LCD to me. I'd actually go so far as to say that most LCDs are even worse than that.

In my experience...

LCD + dark room = grey, blotchy blacks.

If you want top notch blacks in a dark room then maybe the Sony 'R' series are a better bet. LCD's main strength is their performance in a bright room.

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To be honest, those pictures look pretty normal for an LCD to me. I'd actually go so far as to say that most LCDs are even worse than that.

In my experience...

LCD + dark room = grey, blotchy blacks.

If you want top notch blacks in a dark room then maybe the Sony 'R' series are a better bet. LCD's main strength is their performance in a bright room.

Wow Andrew - that's quite an interesting view you have. Did you look at all the pictures, including those shot from within movies? Or even have a look at the pictures in the US thread link posted on page one?

Today I had the opportunity to compare a number of LCD's in ideal lighting conditions. None of these exhibited anything like this problem - and all were significantly cheaper than the X series (including Sony's own V series and below). Sure - black was not exactly black...... but there was certainly none of the noticeable clouds. I would like to know how you would consider this acceptable on Sony's premium model, when LCD's at half the price don't appear to have such an issue?

Needless to say I have already returned mine.

One further point - some people have asked how to determine if their set has these clouds. In my opinion - that's not the point. Where they are not noticed, there is no point looking for them. For those who have the problem with their TV - they will know immediately. There is no requirement to heighten certain settings or stare intently at an all black background. Instead this becomes apparent immediately when watching any material with any form of night scenes, black borders, or generally darker scenes. It's that obvious.

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LCD + dark room = grey, blotchy blacks.

I disagree. For the premium price that Sony charge. The LCD should be BLOTCH free, particularly if a display model does not exhibit such a problem.

The black level is a different story, as this is a limit of the technology, rather than the poor quality of a batch of LCDs.

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For the premium price that Sony charge. The LCD should be BLOTCH free, particularly if a display model does not exhibit such a problem.

Was the display model in a pitch black room? Maybe I'm not seeing the pictures clearly but I've never seen an LCD with an even backlight when viewed in a dark room.

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The build date is on a sticker attached to the back of the unit.

Ah thanks! I was looking in the software!

Mine is Aug 2006. Still no clouds / blotches here... even in a darkened room.

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I have the 40x and after reading this topic I turned my lights off and switched to one of the AV channels to see if there was any issue. I'm happy to say that I don't see anything of the sort on mine. Is it likely to happen in the future if you don't see it now ?

Anyway, my backlight is at 3 and brightness at 56. Don't have any visible leakage on the sides that I can see either so I'm quite happy with my set. Got mine one month ago.

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Together with "Mr Ploppy" (who's name concerns me greatly!)

That gave me a good chuckle Crayons! Sorry to report but no fecal fetishes here! I took the name from a favorite bit character from a Blackadder 2 episode "Head"

Edmund: Good, well done and your name is ?

Mr Ploppy: Ploppy Sir.

Edmund: Ploppy ?

Mr Ploppy: Yes Sir.

Edmund: Ploppy the jailor ?

Mr Ploppy: That's right Sir. Ploppy son of Ploppy.

Edmund: Ploppy, son of Ploppy the jailor ?

Mr Ploppy: Ah ach no Sir. I am the first Ploppy to rise to be jailor. My father, Daddy

Ploppy was known as Ploppy the slopper. It was from him that I inherited my

fascinating skin diseases.

Edmund: Yes you are to be congratulated, my friend, we, we live in an age where

illness and deformity are common place and yet Ploppy, you are without a doubt the

most repulsive individual that I have ever met. I would shake your hand but I fear it would

come off.

Mr Ploppy: There's no many bosses would be that considerate sir.

/end of diversion...

Thanks for starting this thread highfed12. Some very interesting information arising out of this. I was going to swap the set tomorrow but I think I will ring HN and ask for a set in the new batch in December. The pictures of yours clouds are as bad as my first one. The second one is a bit better but still very distracting.

I rang Sony customer support as well and they were very helpful, as have HN.

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Mr. Ploppy you must have reached a different technician from the one I spoke with yesterday at lunch time.

I was calling prior to buying a set and was told that they were unaware of any clouding or backlight problems. He went away for a few minutes to check with his boss and he apparently had no knowledge either.

From this forum it appears that several at least had called before I did so I referred him to this forum and the one at AVS.

He was very pleasant about it all but said that if there was any concern they would have heard from Sony - implying that therefore there was no problem.

One has to think of the AWB and wonder whether this is a ploy as it seems to me that they want to retain deniability.

For interest, the last of a 15 page thread on this subject on the AVS forum is at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....ge=15&pp=30

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That's a typical response. I have yet to hear any manufacturer accept that they have a problem with something they sell. Initially anyway. Sony would be well aware of the issue by now. This isn't just an issue here and is much bigger in the US, where they will string Sony up if it isn't fixed. Consumer rights over there carry the death penalty!!!

That's why it important to report it to both Sony and your retailer. Make sure to record the time/date you reported it and the person to whom you reported it. And make sure to obtain a job No. They don't always volunteer these but they will give it to you if you ask.

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