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I don't think any of us will know the "specifics" of what FOXTEL's HD service will consist of until much closer to when it will be released. However, it would be good to at least know what king of Set-top-box they are going to use, and what functionalities will come with it. Same as normal iQ, but with bigger HDD? Or completely different?

Details will slowly trickle out closer to the release date. Until then, all we can do is speculate.

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I don't think any of us will know the "specifics" of what FOXTEL's HD service will consist of until much closer to when it will be released. However, it would be good to at least know what king of Set-top-box they are going to use, and what functionalities will come with it. Same as normal iQ, but with bigger HDD? Or completely different?

Details will slowly trickle out closer to the release date. Until then, all we can do is speculate.

Andy it is fairly certain that PACE in the UK will supply Foxtel's new HD PVR/DVR as they supplied the first STU and the IQ. Foxtel are a timid lot technically and will just follow on. Normally they take the superceded products but in this case I think they will go with the TDC850 for the cable HD-IQ and the TDS850 for the satellite version. I say this because it comes with an imbedded 250gb HDD whereas the other models link to External Hard drives via a SATA interface. FOXTEL DONT WANT US OFFLOADING RECORDED MEDIA FILESTO EXTERNAL HARD DRIVES!!!!

Check out these links and my bet is you wont be too far wrong.....

http://www.pacemicro.com/corporate/product...D=DCABLE-TDC850

http://www.pacemicro.com/corporate/product...tID=DSAT-TDS850

Cheers

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HD channels would be a waste for us because we don't get free hd channels where we live :( the country people misses out.

Curious remarks aussiefan. If you don't get FTA digital then I would have thought you would be hoping like heck to get them through Foxtel satellite when F goes HD.

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From previous interactions with Hosko whom I have respect for his input, I understand he does not work for Foxtel, however does work at a technical/engineering level with a commercial broadcaster.

The broadcast community at a technical/engineering level is a pretty small and well associated one, information sharing is not so commerically anal as other levels of the media industry.

I think your badgering of him is misdirected, he has quite clearly outlined in other threads his thoughts on Foxtel which I think you will find is pretty well balanced compared to some misinformed comments I see in these forums.

Cyril

Hi Cyril, no doubt Hosko is a sound techo. And I take it from what you say that he works for one of the FTA channels and they are all known to each other. I did not mean to badger him. It was he who took strong exception to my posting. I have no way of assessing his attitude other than by what he posted in reply to me (and was unaware of his otherwise adverse comments on Foxtel elsewhere). I hope he and I can exchange posting civilly, calmly and constructively in the future .. it benefits us all.

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DirecTV are 200+ channels - 30 of them HD )increasing) - and offering 4 STUs (no extra charge upfront or monthly) - all for $49.99 per month (about AUS$56/month). To get an equivalent here (not possible for channel numbers or for content which is far superior and up date not years old) costs something like Aus $200/month.

compare to Platinum (inferior/older content) 70 channels here (mostly doubled up to claim 130 channels) with 3 more access points/cards is $165 BEFORE adding the expected HD levy

3. re: DirecTV your figures don't look anything like mine. I have run a dummy signup with my Seattle address and selected IxHD PVR pus 3 HD STUs (4 rooms in total) with 200 channels incl 30 movie channels + 30 HD channels will cost US$65/month for 12 months and then $85/month thereafter. Admittedly I opted for the outright purchase of 3 more HD-STUs @ $97 each even though the upgrade to HD DVR is $0.

Your statements above prove my point that you are loose with your facts.

Look it is obvious they want to frustrate and bury discontent instead of fronting customer complaints, resolve them and give customer satisfaction... and of course they might even improve as an organisation (shocking thought!).

Having a call centre open for 18 hours per day, 365 days of the year I consider tackling customer complaints head-on, add that to a fall-back resource of sending a written complaint through their web site and I reckon they've got their priorities right.

So there is NO justification for higher subscription rates here other than Foxtel's owners insatiable greed for HIGHER and HIGHER profits. (Profit 2007 is 12 times 2006)

It's not unusual for a reasonably young company to have a period of losses followed by profits that rise exponentially each year before levelling out. Their first year of profit was a measly $4m and the second was $76m (19 times the first), it's hardly a dent in what the owners (mostly Telstra, given News' and PBL's interest in Fox Sports which has been profitable for quite some time) have invested over the previous decade.

4. Re 7 and Foxtel: other Posters have fairly dealt with your Foxtel-biased comments on this.

Having an opinion that differs from yours isn't necessarily biased.

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It does not lessen the argument that its their sub-contractors (and not themselves) that do not have HD OB equipment.

yes that is what I said about the lack of OB HD equipment!

Well maybe a small percentage RECENTLY are being filmed in HD. But most NO.

You said twice that there is no HD Equipment, then you say hardly anything is shot in HD. It is true that not every OB truck in the country is HD, but the reason things aren't shot in HD has nothing to do with equipment. Apart from Channel 10 the broadcasters simply don't want to spend the extra money to hire the equipment. Next year every match channel 10 produces of AFL will be in HD. Channel 7 could if they chose to broadcast all of their AFL matches in HD, they use a HD truck just in SD mode. Global TV has a HD truck that did Idol but will sit idle now.

The OB companies only have enough equipment to meet demand. If there isn't any demand they don't buy extra equipment.

Lastly on the point about Channel 7, if negotiations were confidential how would they know if they were paying more then the FTA's???? The bulk of the fee that Foxtel would charge is satellite carriage fees. They could do what Setanta Sport does and pay Globecast and use some of their sat space on C1.

I may respond to the rest later I'm just a bit busy

Edited by Hosko
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Andy it is fairly certain that PACE in the UK will supply Foxtel's new HD PVR/DVR as they supplied the first STU and the IQ. Foxtel are a timid lot technically and will just follow on. Normally they take the superceded products but in this case I think they will go with the TDC850 for the cable HD-IQ and the TDS850 for the satellite version. I say this because it comes with an imbedded 250gb HDD whereas the other models link to External Hard drives via a SATA interface. FOXTEL DONT WANT US OFFLOADING RECORDED MEDIA FILESTO EXTERNAL HARD DRIVES!!!!

In terms of STB's that FOXTEL chooses, they've been one of, if not the, first operators to use both the original Pace TDC/S420 and the Pace TDC/S460, where they've fallen down is the re-use of the old UEC 720 satellite boxes which should never have happened.

FOXTEL have stated previously that they will use a Hybrid STB with both broadcast and broadband connectivity, so the likely STB is the Pace Hybrid PVR, whether that'll be for both satellite and cable remains to be seen. You're right, FOXTEL don't want customers downloading content to any old external hard drive, nor does just about every other subscription TV provider anywhere in the world, but it will allow the transport of protected content through their touted iQ2Go device.

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Astro surely HD movies on Foxtel is nothing "strategic' or worthy of them being "secretive". Video stores have HD-DVD and BD titles. So they all have that option for customers who decide to have display and play or decode devices for HD. It's logical they will do so and what difference does it make? What will those "competitors" do about it? Nothing. Bigpond Movies is 100% owned by Telstra who own 50% of Foxtel. Either way they win. Oh, and as I said in another posting, Telstra (and other Internet ISPs) will skim the cream if we start downloading HD movies @ 5-7gb each from sites other than their captive ones.

As for 7/TiVo you just can't say "Tivo, when it comes out will be a direct competitor with iQ and the new HD iQ". It's all about CONTENT. Foxtel wont allow TiVo access to their cable or satellite services (Foxtel wont issue Smart cards for 3rd party supplied STUs). Tivo will just be a PVR/DVR for FTA digital broadcasts (2,7,9,10 and SBS) and maybe IPTV if it ever gets of the ground (and works technically).

Astro the bottom line as i have said before ... and before ... and will say it again... Foxtel dont' have any competitors here on OZ.

Think about it this way, if FOXTEL did what you want them to and release pricing, specifications and functionality of their HD product well in advance, don't you think that companies such as Quickflix, ReelTime, Tivo and others would ramp up their advertising in order to get as many new customers as they can before it launches? It happened before FOXTEL Digital was launched back in 2004, Video Ezy saw FOXTEL Box Office as a threat and started advertising specifically targeting certain aspects of the upcoming FOXTEL Digital product.

How can you not consider a FTA channel, which is just a quick button press away, competition for FOXTEL? They're competing for the same viewers on the same TV! A company offering recent release movies for rent, through DVD or other means, how are they not a competitor to FOXTEL Box Office? This notion that just because there aren't any other major traditional subscription TV companies somehow means that FOXTEL are able to do and charge what they want without any consequence is ridiculous.

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Andy it is fairly certain that PACE in the UK will supply Foxtel's new HD PVR/DVR as they supplied the first STU and the IQ. Foxtel are a timid lot technically and will just follow on. Normally they take the superceded products but in this case I think they will go with the TDC850 for the cable HD-IQ and the TDS850 for the satellite version. I say this because it comes with an imbedded 250gb HDD whereas the other models link to External Hard drives via a SATA interface. FOXTEL DONT WANT US OFFLOADING RECORDED MEDIA FILESTO EXTERNAL HARD DRIVES!!!!

Once again you would be wrong. Foxtel will be using a Hybrid PVR, which can record content from the sat/cable service and also download content from the internet. If they were going to go with PACE they would be using their Hybrid PVR which can be found here

You have to remember that any feature on a PACE box can be disabled by software. The current Foxtel IQ has had the 30sec jump forward feature disabled by Foxtel so people can't skip the ad breaks.

Edit - Sorry I just read Astro's reply which said the same thing

Edited by Hosko
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I can see the Showtime stable of channels going HD once the new sat is launched. I noticed that Satisfaction on the Showcase channel is made in HD and that was commissioned by Foxtel. Now it could be just for international distribution but why go to all the effort if your not going to eventually broadcast it yourself in HD.

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Your statements above prove my point that you are loose with your facts.

Having a call centre open for 18 hours per day, 365 days of the year I consider tackling customer complaints head-on, add that to a fall-back resource of sending a written complaint through their web site and I reckon they've got their priorities right.

It's not unusual for a reasonably young company to have a period of losses followed by profits that rise exponentially each year before levelling out. Their first year of profit was a measly $4m and the second was $76m (19 times the first), it's hardly a dent in what the owners (mostly Telstra, given News' and PBL's interest in Fox Sports which has been profitable for quite some time) have invested over the previous decade.

Having an opinion that differs from yours isn't necessarily biased.

Astro I dont think I am loose with the facts. You have only partially quoted my recent post. The KEY point I originally intended to make and is borne out by the fact in my recent posting (the part you OMITTED from the quote) is that a multiroom Foxtel bill is something like 2-3 times that of DirectTV in the USA BEFORE Foxtel add whatever price for the expected HD levy, (which is $9.99 in the USA and is waived if you buy a decent emough package). NO ONE can doubt that Foxtel are much more expensibe than most US and UK subscription TV services just the same as Internet whereTesltra and the "copperline" ADSL resellers are sooooooooo much more expensive here than UK and USA. (Last year I was staying with family in the UK and I set them up with TALK-TALK for 20 pounds/month for unlimited ADSL2+, free modem, free landline, free local calls, free long distance calls, free international calls, and one free moible (limited calls). Although that is AUS$48/month it is really less because everyone who goes to the UK from OZ knows that USUALLY what costs you $1 here is 1 pound there. BUT NOT INTERNET OR SUBTV becau HERE "greedy" Telstra is behind almost all offers. The nearest anyone gets to that here is the current all-in Optus deal (if you are in an Optus cables area - mostly Sydney and Melbourne - and only older suburbs where there are poles for above ground power).

IMHO Telstra (and their virtual monopoly) is the culprit in all this and Foxtel is just their ONLY spoilt "delinquent child" that doesn't have to "share".

Foxtel Customer service:18 hours per day used to be 24 hour per day in earlier times. Some of us in Oz are in different time zones to Sydney you know.

Foxtel Profit: Much of their investment on the past decade has already been writtem off - which was one big reason for published losses and small profit in earlier years. As a former accountant I know just how much of large investment can be written off (amortised/depreciated) before arriving at published net profits, and eventually the business owners have little or no actual original investment in the assets. This effectively means that customer-sourced revenues and taxation deductions fund the residual physical assets which can continue to be utilised to earn revenue streams. Since Foxtel is a private/unlisted company we don't get to see its accounts just what PBL and the other two shareholders briefly say in their own Annual Repots.

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Astro I dont think I am loose with the facts. You have only partially quoted my recent post. The KEY point I originally intended to make and is borne out by the fact in my recent posting (the part you OMITTED from the quote) is that a multiroom Foxtel bill is something like 2-3 times that of DirectTV in the USA BEFORE Foxtel add whatever price for the expected HD levy, (which is $9.99 in the USA and is waived if you buy a decent emough package). NO ONE can doubt that Foxtel are much more expensibe than most US and UK subscription TV services just the same as Internet

If you lived in the states then you would probably know that Comcast is the largest cable provider. I direct you to the Pay-to-much: Are we getting the cable we deserve thread where I posted all the packages available from Comcast. Their cheapest digital package starts at US$56.48 or $64.30 thats $26.35 more expensive then what Foxtel's cheapest package is. Sure it has more channels but thats a heck of a lot more money. Comcast does offer the first three months at a reduced price but the figures I quoted is what you pay after that.

On the issue of the call centre closing at midnight and reopening at 6am. How much assistance do you possibly need after 10pm (if you live in the west this is when it shuts) that you can't wait until you wake up to fix???? I would have thought that you could have counted on one hand the amount of people that would have called between midnight and 6am eastern when it was open those hours.

Edited by Hosko
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If you lived in the states then you would probably know that Comcast is the largest cable provider. I direct you to the Pay-to-much: Are we getting the cable we deserve thread where I posted all the packages available from Comcast. Their cheapest digital package starts at US$56.48 or $64.30 thats $26.35 more expensive then what Foxtel's cheapest package is. Sure it has more channels but thats a heck of a lot more money. Comcast does offer the first three months at a reduced price but the figures I quoted is what you pay after that.

On the issue of the call centre closing at midnight and reopening at 6am. How much assistance do you possibly need after 10pm (if you live in the west this is when it shuts) that you can't wait until you wake up to fix???? I would have thought that you could have counted on one hand the amount of people that would have called between midnight and 6am eastern when it was open those hours.

... and DirecTV is the largest satellite provider .. and their prices are keener than Comcast. The DirecTV prices I posted are ACTUAL from an aborted signup and are current as of yesterday. US rates are 50% or more cheaper than Oz for a superior content. And Multiroom access makes an even bigger difference. Can you deny this Hosko?

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I can see the Showtime stable of channels going HD once the new sat is launched. I noticed that Satisfaction on the Showcase channel is made in HD and that was commissioned by Foxtel. Now it could be just for international distribution but why go to all the effort if your not going to eventually broadcast it yourself in HD.

Encouraging :rolleyes:

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Once again you would be wrong. Foxtel will be using a Hybrid PVR, which can record content from the sat/cable service and also download content from the internet. If they were going to go with PACE they would be using their Hybrid PVR which can be found here

You have to remember that any feature on a PACE box can be disabled by software. The current Foxtel IQ has had the 30sec jump forward feature disabled by Foxtel so people can't skip the ad breaks.

Edit - Sorry I just read Astro's reply which said the same thing

Hosko sorry to again disagree. whilst I have no certainty as to the pace box that Foxtel will use , and I dont doubt your source as to them intending to uses a HYBRID box, the one which is quoted in your LINK is NOT hybrid for cable and satellite - it IS hybrid for Satellite and IP according the the features it lists. If so, then cable will be something else ... like the TDC850 I mnetioned to Andy (I think it was).

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FOXTEL have stated previously that they will use a Hybrid STB with both broadcast and broadband connectivity, so the likely STB is the Pace Hybrid PVR, whether that'll be for both satellite and cable remains to be seen. You're right, FOXTEL don't want customers downloading content to any old external hard drive, nor does just about every other subscription TV provider anywhere in the world, but it will allow the transport of protected content through their touted iQ2Go device.

You guys Astro and Hosko seem to be privy to more info that the rest of us re Foxtel intentions. If it is sourced in press releases, why oh why dont' they do what other responsible, customer conscious, companies do and private a link to these press releases from their Home webpage. iI you guys know these things why shouldn't everyone else .. without all the guessing?

However you rightly say that hydrid is for "both broadcast and broadband connectivity" NOT for cable and satellite. The LINK which Hosko had given (and to which I have already replied on this issue) is for satellite-Ip only. It doesn't say there is a cable-Ip hybrid or a Cable-satellite hydrid. So cable subscribers might be supplied something else .. like the TDC850. Any further thoughts or actual knowledge on this for cable?

In terms of STB's that FOXTEL chooses, they've been one of, if not the, first operators to use both the original Pace TDC/S420 and the Pace TDC/S460, where they've fallen down is the re-use of the old UEC 720 satellite boxes which should never have happened.

When Foxtel picked up the TDC420 (original digital STU for those of you not in the know) it had been on the market nearly 2 years and was the cheapest offering PACE had at the time. In early 2005 when the picked up the TDC460 (IQ) it was over 1 year old and there wer many higher models which they were supplying to US and Europe STV providers, like triple tuner and Multiroom (Network) models like DC755. They were not "one of, if not the, first operators to use both". BSKy had been using these (or versions of them) for 1 year. As another poster stated ... in effect that Foxtel tend to pickup what Sky have already proven.

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Think about it this way, if FOXTEL did what you want them to and release pricing, specifications and functionality of their HD product well in advance, don't you think that companies such as Quickflix, ReelTime, Tivo and others would ramp up their advertising in order to get as many new customers as they can before it launches? It happened before FOXTEL Digital was launched back in 2004, Video Ezy saw FOXTEL Box Office as a threat and started advertising specifically targeting certain aspects of the upcoming FOXTEL Digital product.

Price OK. That is the key to competition. However it is NO SECRET that they will be providing some HD channels in 2008. OK .. dont' tell us (or the competitors) how many channels. BUT PLEASE tell us the format so we can purchase capable/suitable equipment if we have to do so now. In my case I have to order a new projector today, and was hoping to order an new upscaling AV receiver before Xmas, but I dont know what signal/format will be output from Foxtel HD and their new IQ box and if it will be definitely HDMI or ONLY ANALOGUE or BOTH functionality (remembering Foxtel's middleware has disabled the present USB port).

How can you not consider a FTA channel, which is just a quick button press away, competition for FOXTEL? They're competing for the same viewers on the same TV! A company offering recent release movies for rent, through DVD or other means, how are they not a competitor to FOXTEL Box Office? This notion that just because there aren't any other major traditional subscription TV companies somehow means that FOXTEL are able to do and charge what they want without any consequence is ridiculous.

Astro you have missed a subtle point in your comparison here .......... FTA is only "a quick button press away" if you ALREADY have Foxtel and decide to view FTA (directly lets say). IF you already have Foxtel you have ALL the rest anyway as a "moment by moment" choice. Foxtel only lose you if you disconnect, they dont care what you watch as long as you pay your SUB. The only time the other media you quoted are effective competitors to Foxtel is IF you see them (singly or collectively) as a better deal that Foxtel and you disconnect Foxtel, provided you are not captive to a 12 or 24 month contract - in which case you cant ditch them (without large expense). Or if you are just FTA then you decide NOT to connect Foxtel becasue you dont see the value in it compared to the alternative from those you say are Foxtel competitors.

NONE of the "competitors" you quote are contracts (or longer than a month's sub at most) so they are not in the same market a Foxtel who are (should be) trying to convince the public on the benfits of signing up for a lengthy contract. Now it would be different IF like mobile phone deals there were TWO or more companies viewing to sign you up for a 12 month or 2 yr contarct.

In this case it is Foxtel who is the ONLY one trying to sign you up for a lonterm deal, and they should be "leading the way" with announcements to try to entice (and maintain) customers.

Truly, what could these other "competitors" do to counter Foxtel even if Foxtel announced today all their prices, formats, dates etc. HD and BD movies are available from some video stores at prices of $1 or $1.99 on selected days of the week. They wont be able to offer much better deals than they already do. As for Internet Movie sites, ditto. Ff those want you to download movies than you have the added problem of 5-7gb each time towards a higher/more expensive internet plan (which you dont have with Foxtel). And as for TiVo - well its just for FTA and its success will depend on FTA content + Multicasting new content from 2008 + the technical success or otherwise of IPTV (and yes again, who is going to pay the download costs for IPTV which will be based on 1.5(SD) - 6gb(HD)/hour watched? Could be 100s of Gbs per month. Mmmm.)

Let's face it, thes other "competitors" already know that Foxtel will offer HD next year and the rest matters nothing. They also know that Foxtel will NEVER offer such cheap deals that will really compete with the price of their services. Example: I have Foxtel Plantimun with 2 IQs and 1 std STU, and yet I wont pay $5.95 for Box Office movies that I can rent for $1 or not much more. Its like I dont make Pizza at home anymore as even just ingredients I cant match the $3.95 specials at most of the Pizza shops.

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Remember that 7 has bought Unwired. That gives them the ability to push content to their TIVO boxes without the use of a fixed line broadband service (assuming good enough reception where the TIVO is located). Its not much of a stretch of the imagination to see 7 providing pay-to-watch content in that manner. Think a pay version of Foxtel's pseudo-on-demand similar to how Sky operates some of their pseudo on-demand content in the UK.

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You're right, FOXTEL don't want customers downloading content to any old external hard drive, nor does just about every other subscription TV provider anywhere in the world, but it will allow the transport of protected content through their touted iQ2Go device.

Cant see why they disabled the UDB port. Just paranoia on their part.

look .. they use an uncommon file format and it is encoded and encrypted. New HD stuff will be HDCP I guess as well. If one is caapble of hacking that stuff well good luck to them. Those sort of people wont let an inoperative USB port stop them.

But for the rest of us more mortals, we just want some way to offload to storage (the files can still be the same and protected as they presently are). In my case I have about 12 Andie Rieu concerts (approx 20hrs), 6 Star Wars mobies (about 10 hours) and some other classics (about 20 hours) which leaves me about 10 hours of the 60 hours available on the IQ (100 hrs less EPG, demand and system space). What would be wrong with allowing us to offload to archive on another DVR material like this and then copy back when we want to view them?

With the new HD/IQ things will be no better unless we can uffload and reload media files. Even with the increase form 160gb to 250gb the box will just store the same amount of HD - 100 hours less the EPG, DEmand and syemtem areas.

This has been a big bug-bear to many Foxtel subscribers. Why can't they be customer sensitive to this problem.

I know that one can setup a play list and "play the material overnight (many hours in real time) and capture it onto a DVR through the IQ SCART marked "VCR" but the files will then probably be avi or something similar. If so that would be LESS protection for Foxtel's content. Also that would make it impossible to return to the IQ HDD as the format would have changed. Also the quality would prob be 480x360i rather than the original 1024/768x576i as the VCR-SCART only puts out video on a single COMPOSITE pin rather than 3(4) pins for RGBs or 2 pin SVideo (on the main SCART).

Anyone here have any newer knowledge on this problem?

Edited by Phantomguy
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Remember that 7 has bought Unwired. That gives them the ability to push content to their TIVO boxes without the use of a fixed line broadband service (assuming good enough reception where the TIVO is located). Its not much of a stretch of the imagination to see 7 providing pay-to-watch content in that manner. Think a pay version of Foxtel's pseudo-on-demand similar to how Sky operates some of their pseudo on-demand content in the UK.

Yes would be good to see that work. But it has still a way to go. Some reports in the US say the this techoloby is in doubt. We just have to hope 7 and Tivo have something more than 4 FTA channels (plus a couple more when LIMITED Multicasting is allowed in 2008). And then there is the content. Foxtel have signed up quite a bit of poplular content in the channel line up.

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Possibly a stupid question but having just received the 2 week access to Showtime I see some movies light up as Dolby Digital - what format is the sound for all the other stations?

Also, what video resolution does Foxtel output via component - my Plasma is saying 768 x 288?

Cheers

Martin

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