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Owen

Sony Bravia "r" Series (sxrd) 60"-70" 1080p

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I'm looking forward to seeing these but I see they're only using DRC v1.0 in them. This is a disappointment. I don't know why we always have to be behind the US in features and functionality.

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I'm looking forward to seeing these but I see they're only using DRC v1.0 in them. This is a disappointment. I don't know why we always have to be behind the US in features and functionality.

No, you have that mixed up mate.

Read the specs, they show our models use DRC 2.5, same as the yet to be released US XBR2.

Only the US model A2000 uses DRC 1.0

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When the SXRD 70" is available do you think it would be worth trying a group buy to maybe save a little cash?

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No, you have that mixed up mate.

Read the specs, they show our models use DRC 2.5, same as the yet to be released US XBR2.

Only the US model A2000 uses DRC 1.0

Oh well that's great news then. Can't wait!

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When the SXRD 70" is available do you think it would be worth trying a group buy to maybe save a little cash?

I have no doubt that a group buy should yield better pricing for all who participate, even if it is a mixed order of 60” and 70” models. So prospective purchasers of the new SXRD’s should band together for a better deal.

If we cant get a really good deal for 10 or more units, we are just not trying.

I’d be pushing for a price of around $200- $300 above cost per unit.

For 10 units, that’s $2K- $3K profit for the retailer, for just a bit of paperwork.

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I have no doubt that a group buy should yield better pricing for all who participate, even if it is a mixed order of 60” and 70” models. So prospective purchasers of the new SXRD’s should band together for a better deal.

If we cant get a really good deal for 10 or more units, we are just not trying.

I’d be pushing for a price of around $200- $300 above cost per unit.

For 10 units, that’s $2K- $3K profit for the retailer, for just a bit of paperwork.

Put me down for one.

That is, so long as it lives up to the expectations.

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As these are rear-pro, I assume the lamp/bulb will need to replaced after a certain number of hours. I cant seem to see where it mentions the lamp hours and the costs involved. Any one know anything about this.

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Put me down for one.

That is, so long as it lives up to the expectations.

Same here.

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As these are rear-pro, I assume the lamp/bulb will need to replaced after a certain number of hours. I cant seem to see where it mentions the lamp hours and the costs involved. Any one know anything about this.

4000 hours is typical, maybe more.

That equals 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for two years.

Cost should be around $350, so we could say something in the order of $200 per year for the lamp.

A big Plasma uses over double the power of the 70” SXRD, and would cost a couple of hundred bucks per year extra in your power bill.

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4000 hours is typical, maybe more.

That equals 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for two years.

Cost should be around $350, so we could say something in the order of $200 per year for the lamp.

A big Plasma uses over double the power of the 70” SXRD, and would cost a couple of hundred bucks per year extra in your power bill.

I hope the lamp they will use is the type that maintains it brightness up to approx 90% of it's life pointless having a lamp that starts to drop off after 60% use

cheers laurie

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4000 hours is typical, maybe more.

That equals 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for two years.

Cost should be around $350, so we could say something in the order of $200 per year for the lamp.

A big Plasma uses over double the power of the 70” SXRD, and would cost a couple of hundred bucks per year extra in your power bill.

Hey, i was talking to someone the other day (we were both looking at sets somewhere), and he mentioned that a company called "Austran" i THINK, it was something like that anyway, makes rearpro bulbs and/or imports them from China and they apparently can be gotten for about $100.

Now a few things make we wary about this info, firstly im not really sure how different bulbs go in different sets as ive only ever owned one rearpro, and never replaced a bulb (got about 6,000hrs now). So im not sure whether they just do generic versions of all bulb types, or what exactly it is.

Secondly im not really sure how good they would be as a china import, but again, it may be fine.

But anyway, has anyone else heard of these guys, or perhaps someone who knows more about the logistics of it all would know how this kind of thing would work.

Also Owen, you mentioned a 4,000hr typical lamp life, do you know if the lamp output has been increasing over the various generations of digital rearpros, and that has resulted in a decreasing lamp life yield?

Reason i ask this, when i bought my MW60, the advertised life was "over 10,000hrs", (ive only got mine to 6,000, and optics engine issues will preclude me testing it fully), but now the recent generation rearpros such as the LG LCOS and DLPs are claiming (that being the key word) lamp lifes of 8,000hrs, and the Toshiba is being even more conservative with 6,000hrs.

Just seems that either they are being more and more honest/conservative with their estimates, or they are increasing the output (or some other factor) which is reducing the lamplife.

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All lamps loose brightness over time, some more so then others.

The type used in RPTV’s is reasonably stable, and the light output does not dramatically fall off over the life of the lamp.

Some high power lamps used in high end front projectors can suffer an alarming fall of in light output over a very short time, with a replacement cost of $1,500.

For people that need or want a very bright display, lamp degradation over time may be an issue, but for me, the SXRD’s are WAY, WAY too bright in standard form, and modifications will be required to get the light output down to a sane level for viewing in a relatively dim, but not dark environment.

My current RPTV is set up to provide about 9ftl (Foot Lamberts) output, which is comfortable for none brightly lit indoor environment, and a little on the bright side for a darkened room.

The SXRD’s deliver well over 100ftl with the lamp on high power, which is just over the top, and would require sun glasses.

I would run the lamp in low power mode and fit a neutral density filter over the lens to reduce the light output to just 25% of it’s original level.

That may still not be enough, and my next step would be to replace the 180 watt lamp in the 70” the 120 watt lamp from the 60”.

Not only will these mods dramatically reduce peak light output, but they will also lower black levels by an equivalent percentage, which should provide blacks significantly better then any other digital display.

As for lamp life, well the figure I quoted is not from Sony, and is only my personal VERY conservative estimate.

I would rather over estimate then under estimate and mislead people.

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As for lamp life, well the figure I quoted is not from Sony, and is only my personal VERY conservative estimate.

I would rather over estimate then under estimate and mislead people.

Ah okay, good point.

Anyway, i'd certainly be in on a group buy except ive only got store credit to spend at Bi-Rite Beenleigh so unless everyone wants to get their sets from there...probably not going to be a part unfortunately.

Unless those in the Qld/Brisbane area want to start a seperate bulk buy? (might save a bit doing it by area, who knows)

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Toss up for me between the 60 SXRD or 52 Bravia X.

If I can talk the partner into renovating, then rear-pro (and group buy) it is.

200-300 above cost should convince her :blink:

Pending seeing them in person of course.

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With the group buy, it will all depend on whether Sony will ship it to your door like Toshiba and some others do, or if it will go through the retailer and require them to organise delivery.

Count me in on the group buy if the picture looks as good as claimed and better than the Toshiba.

I used to work at a hifi store, and got a price on the 62" toshiba of $4900 a couple of months ago. I am sure, that if I spoke with them again, and enquired about a group buy of a large number of the sonys, I might be able to get us something super special for that. Of course, we will have to wait the next 2 months at least and see. And Sony have been incredibly adept at under-delivering on ordered stock for smaller retailers. (But I also worked at a JB hifi store, and they sell sony, so could get us a great price through them).

I'll keep an eye out for what is happening in the forum. If the sxrd match the hype, then I will do some asking around.

Matt

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That may still not be enough, and my next step would be to replace the 180 watt lamp in the 70” the 120 watt lamp from the 60”.

Not only will these mods dramatically reduce peak light output, but they will also lower black levels by an equivalent percentage, which should provide blacks significantly better then any other digital display.

Maybe it will be better to leave the original 180watt in and adjust the voltage to the lamp similar to what a dimmer does that way you can allow for different viewing times e.g. day/night... yes/no?

cheers laurie

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Dimming changes the colour temperature of the lamp.

The Sony already has a low power mode for the lamp, with appropriate colour compensation.

Further dimming is not practical, and would involve unacceptable modifications to the electrical components of the set.

If you need to view in a brightly lit or sun filled room, you will need the power of the standard lamp setup, however viewing in a dim or dark environment will be compromised.

Current digital displays just cant be optimises for both bright and dark viewing, so you have to choose what to optimise for.

At least with a RPTV you have a choice and some flexibility, where as with the flat panels, you are stuck with what ever compromise the designer settled on.

I never view in a bright environment and therefore black level is of prime importance.

The SXRD’s already have outstandingly good blacks and shadow detail for a digital display, but I can improve that by a factor of ten, which will put black levels so far below any other digital display, that any comparison will be silly.

Not only will blacks be outstanding, but shadow detail will be retained.

A modified SXRD RPTV is as close to a CRT RPTV as any digital is going to get for quite a while.

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The SXRD’s already have outstandingly good blacks and shadow detail for a digital display, but I can improve that by a factor of ten, which will put black levels so far below any other digital display, that any comparison will be silly.

Not only will blacks be outstanding, but shadow detail will be retained.

A modified SXRD RPTV is as close to a CRT RPTV as any digital is going to get for quite a while.

What modifications are you going to perform? And are there any webpages that document what they did and the benifits?

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What modifications are you going to perform? And are there any webpages that document what they did and the benifits?

I though I had covered the proposed mods in my previous posts, e.g. neutral density filter and possibly the use of a lower power lamp.

I am not aware of any web sites that document any of the modes, they are common sense.

Benefits are a very significant reduction in light output to make the display suitable for subtle lighting conditions, as well as greatly improved black level.

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I checked with Sony in Singapore (where I live) and unfortunately the Sony SXRD displays are not HDMI version 1.3.

Playstation 3 will be the first consumer electronics device with HDMI 1.3. Later model HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will have it as well.

I would say that the SXRD displays will be better than LCD, Plasma and DLP displays (after calibration) but unless you absolutely have to have one it was be best to wait until later models in 2007....

HDMI 1.3 details are here:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsf...ificationQA.php

Cheers

Mark

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I checked with Sony in Singapore (where I live) and unfortunately the Sony SXRD displays are not HDMI version 1.3.

Playstation 3 will be the first consumer electronics device with HDMI 1.3. Later model HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will have it as well.

I would say that the SXRD displays will be better than LCD, Plasma and DLP displays (after calibration) but unless you absolutely have to have one it was be best to wait until later models in 2007....

HDMI 1.3 details are here:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsf...ificationQA.php

Cheers

Mark

What advantage where you hoping to get out of HDMI 1.3?

Other then audio, which you would not want to send to a TV anyway if quality is of importance, the video improvements are of no benefit.

The ability of the HDMI link to handle 1440p is useless on a 1080p display, and as for the colour depth improvement, well that is limited by the source to 8bits per colour or 24bit RGB total.

No video source available today or even on the distant horizon has any more then 24bit colour.

24bit colour is also plenty for any application, including professional photo editing.

The colour problems seen on many digital displays have nothing to do with 24bit limitations in the source, or in the digital interconnect. It is all to do with video compression and inadequate video processing in the display.

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What advantage where you hoping to get out of HDMI 1.3?

Other then audio, which you would not want to sent to a TV anyway if quality is of importance, the video improvements are of no benefit.

The ability of the HDMI link to handle 1440p is useless on a 1080p display, and as for the colour depth improvement, well that is limited by the source to 8bits per colour or 24bit RGB total.

No video source available today or even on the distant horizon has any more then 24bit colour.

24bit colour is also plenty for any application, including professional photo editing.

The colour problems seen on many digital displays have nothing to do with 24bit limitations in the source, or in the digital interconnect. It is all to do with video compression and inadequate video processing in the display.

Total agreement, been saying this for a while.

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Went to Sony Central today in George St Sydney and was told they will have both the the X Series Bravia and a FEW SXRD at the end of October for display purpose then expect retail quality from early Nov this was from the head man as they have now reduce the existing RPTV price in ready for the new model :blink:

cheers laurie

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I think there is a little more to HDMI 1.3 than what you mention.

There are other advantages listed in the article. (I am excluding audio).

So why would they bother to release 1.3 then if there is no advantage to the picture quality using Playstation 3, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray (one they become 1.3)???

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New HDMI 1.3 capabilities include:

Higher speed:

• HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high-definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, deep color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.

Deep color:

• HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.

• Lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors.

• Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors.

• Enables increased contrast ratio.

• Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white. At 30-bit pixel depth, four times more shades of gray would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more.

Broader color space:

• HDMI 1.3 removes virtually all limits on color selection.

• Next-generation “xvYCC” color space supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals.

• Lets HDTVs display colors more accurately.

• Enables displays with more natural and vivid colors.

New mini connector:

• With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.

Lip Sync:

• Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy.

New lossless audio formats:

• In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and currently available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™.

Another adaptor to buy

cheers laurie

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