New Lg Hd Plasma With Hd Tuner

[Trainspotter]

Would the LG Integrated Tuner downscale problem even be in there integrated LCD and CRT sets with HD Tuners or is it just a problem in there plasmas?

Hard to say. Depends on the tuners they use and what the different sets can accept/process internally. It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Only way to find out is to test them out individually (with internal tuner and external box).

I think the big problem comes from the fact that Australia is a tiny market for LG. Given other areas getting the same or similar model (most of Europe) aren't getting HD tuners, they seem to be putting cheap versions in sets here that don't appear to be properly designed to accept an HD signal internally. The obvious reason for this move is that it means they can market the sets as HD integrated TVs, regardless of whether they are actually displaying a true HD picture or not.

There may of course be exceptions to the above with some models, but this certainly appears to be the case with their plasmas.

[nnewtothis]

It strikes me that this still seems like a very well priced 1024 x 768 42" plamsa with HDMI input, if you ignore the internal tuner completely. At the very least it should give excellent (true) 576p.

Ok first timer here , bottom line is I was about to purchase today from Good Guys in WA for $2490 plus $339 for all up 5 yr waranty. Should I procede as ppaeras I am not as up to scartch with technicalities as you peoplwe , whilst the salesman could noy give a rats???

Take 2 sorry about the typing

Ok first timer here , bottom line is I was about to purchase today from Good Guys the 106 cm model in WA for $2490 plus $339 for all up 5 yr waranty. Should I procede as appears I am not as up to scratch with technicalities as you people , whilst the salesman could no give a rats???

[jonoscruzin]

Hi Guys,

I have some serious news to share about this panel, but before I do I want you know that this is no way any kind of troublemaking “troll post”. Rather I recently bought this plasma, have had the opportunity to test it properly, and have come across a SERIOUS design flaw. So serious that I’ll unfortunately be taking back my panel.

When I first got the plasma home things looked pretty good. Colours were decent, processing while not brilliant was acceptable, and black levels were about what I expected from a latest model LG (not up to Panasonic or Pioneer standards but decent). I tuned in all the digital channels no problem, and it was then I started to notice a major problem.

The problem is this. The HD tuner inside this panel is not a true HD tuner. Sure, it receives and displays all HD channels, but believe it or not it down-converts them internally to SD for display. Rubbish I hear you cry? Well try this. Have a good look at the HD channels (when a true HD show or loop is on) then compare the image quality to the SD channels. Marginal improvement perhaps? Now get your hands on ANY HD STB (or if you don't have access to one go into a store and ask to see an HD STB hooked up to one of these screens). Put the HD STB on 1080i setting, put them both on the same channel (making sure it’s a true HD show – not up-converted), then flick between the HD box and the set’s internal HD tuner. Now feel your jaw drop. The HD STB will produce a picture at least twice as detailed as that of the set’s own internal “HD” tuner. It doesn’t mater whether you use a $200 DGTEC HD box or a $500 Topfield HD box, ANY HD box with component output will yield a picture dramatically superior to that of the LG.

The worst thing is even the SD picture from the set’s own tuner is not up to scratch due to some weird processing its doing to the picture. Comparing the picture to a Humax SMART-PVR, DGTEC HD box (set to SD output) and a Topfield 5000 via S-Video, every one produces an SD picture with more detail, better colours, less line flicker, and less noise than the LG’s own tuner.

To test this have a look at any SD channel on the LG and look at the amount of line flicker, background noise, colour bleed and overall softness to the picture.

So how could this all be you ask? Believe it or not I have a very good idea based on something a very knowledgeable industry insider has told me. Supposedly because this panel is only sold with an HD tuner in Australia (elsewhere in the world it has no internal digital tuner or an SD tuner only for Europe) it isn’t actually equipped to receive an HD signal internally. The part where the HD card slots in can only process an SD signal – which means RGB (as in SD RGB usually delivered via EuroSCART) or S-Video. So what is happening is the HD tuner receives the HD signal, then down-converts it to SD for processing and display.

This is an absolute sham and I’m personally very pissed off. One of the main selling features for me buying this panel was its internal HD tuner, and to find out its delivering only an SD picture on HD channels is a disgrace. Its also a classic case of false advertising.

Now remember people, I am putting this post up to help people out, not to start trouble or to make people unhappy. If you have any doubts whatsoever about what I’m saying, remember all you have to do is hook up an HD STB via component/HDMI and switch between it and the set’s own HD tuner on a true HD show. If you can’t see a dramatically superior picture from the HD STB you need a serious eye examination.

The sad thing is this panel actually looks very good with an external HD STB, and if LG had just been honest and either left it without a tuner, or better incorporated one that delivered a proper HD signal, it would be very good for the money.

As it stands now I will be retuning mine and going for a panel without HD tuner, given there is no point in keeping the LG for this feature. A real shame too as I like the overall picture and aesthetics of this screen.

Sorry to be the bringer of such bad news

[jonoscruzin]

Hi Guy's,

I've been looking at purchasing this Plasma, but after reading through trainspotter's post I thought I'd contact LG direct and see what they had to say about this.

Apparently they are aware of this problem and are waiting for their head office in South Korea to come up with a solution. I have been told to call back in a month and ask for an update. When I get more news I will post.

In the meantime I'm holding off buying one unless they are fixed. Failing that I might buy the Pana but I Just don't like the silver!!

[John Rogers]

I bought the LG 106 cm this week in Ballarat for $2,200 at Warehouse Sales. The only disappointing feature is that one cannot assign specific channel numbers to each channel. Hence channel ten must remain no. 5. It was nice to find that the remote also controls my JVC VCR.

[maximusmax]

but not a lg dvd recorder, record button on the tv remote doesn't work, manual said the same thing.

[graf]

hay guys i just got one of these LG. And it is much better than the soniq .

But I have a question. it says that it can do 1024*768. But why is it when i connect my pc to it it only does 640*480 ??????

Also can you you disable the angloue tuner , So that it only goes thru the HD tuner ????

And finally is it possible to configure a HD channel eg channel 90 to number 9 on the remote ????

[graf]

i got the pc working

but what about my other 2 questions ???

[qsphere]

hay guys i just got one of these LG. And it is much better than the soniq .

But I have a question. it says that it can do 1024*768. But why is it when i connect my pc to it it only does 640*480 ??????

Also can you you disable the angloue tuner , So that it only goes thru the HD tuner ????

And finally is it possible to configure a HD channel eg channel 90 to number 9 on the remote ????

a) Glad to see you got PC working

Analogue tuner cannot be disabled or switched off

c) Channels cannot be moved ie 90 to 9. Best way to set it up is to store the HD channels as favourites ie 90, 70, 12, 20 etc etc and then just use the 'FAV; button on the remote conrol as a channel up button as it scrolls through them. That way you don;t have to enter 70, 90 etc on the remote.

d) If it annoys you to have to scroll through each input, get a learning Universal Remote like the Logitech Harmony. LG supply unique inputs IR codes like component 1, HDMI, Digital Tuner etc so you can jump to each one in any order without having to sequentially scroll through. With the supplied remote you cannot do this.

[graf]

a) Glad to see you got PC working

Analogue tuner cannot be disabled or switched off

c) Channels cannot be moved ie 90 to 9. Best way to set it up is to store the HD channels as favourites ie 90, 70, 12, 20 etc etc and then just use the 'FAV; button on the remote conrol as a channel up button as it scrolls through them. That way you don;t have to enter 70, 90 etc on the remote.

d) If it annoys you to have to scroll through each input, get a learning Universal Remote like the Logitech Harmony. LG supply unique inputs IR codes like component 1, HDMI, Digital Tuner etc so you can jump to each one in any order without having to sequentially scroll through. With the supplied remote you cannot do this.

cool I will give it a go . I got a harmony 880

[graf]

Did LG say anything about the HD built in tuner card ?

[DKNY]

I have communicated with the technical staff at L.G. and they claim that the reason for difference was

purely sharpness of picture and not overall resolution received and decoded by HD Tuner.

Claims the picture from STB looked sharper was due higher video signal input levels, edges being harsh

and more noise and jagging apparent creating the appearance it was crisper.

L.G had softened edges to eliminate this noise artifact which is commen to DTV.

L.G. has advised there customer service that a software upgrade is available to customers that may feel this is an issue,

and after having it installed and demostrated by Service Center Person it is now in my opinion better with its own Tuner than a

HD STB hooked up through RGB or Component input. .

[Trainspotter]

That is one of the funniest things I've read on a forum for quite some time.. LG ARE LYING TO YOU.

It has nothing to do with processing. There is simply no detail there. The picture from the HD tuner is soft, blurry and lacking in detail. It is clearly SD. There is absolutely no difference in image quality between the SD and HD channels when showing a native HD program. Try it for yourself!

Not to mention an LG technician I spoke to on the phone was aware of the fact that it wasn't a true HD picture being produced by the internal tuner and openly admitted it! (As they did to another DBA member above).

I don't know what HD STB you used for your comparison but it clearly set to SD output if you think it looks better (or you need an eye examination!)

[Husq]

The LG 42PC1DV was known to down convert from a HD tuner to SD as it only had a SD screen and this apparently caused LG some marketing rework. I purchased the 42PC1DG from good guys a few weeks back and they confirmed that it was not down converting to SD and LG would not make this mistake twice after creative advertising on the 42PC1DV. However, I'd rather not clear my conscience on the word of a sales person.

I ran CSI through foxtel on Sunday night to compare the difference SD on foxtel and HD on Ch9 digital. I am assuming that starting with a SD signal will produce a SD quality picture on the screen. I switched to Ch9 digital and noticed a huge difference in the quality of the picture.

Has anyone tried comparing an external LG HD device to the inbuilt LG tuner?

[brisbull]

I ran CSI through foxtel on Sunday night to compare the difference SD on foxtel and HD on Ch9 digital. I am assuming that starting with a SD signal will produce a SD quality picture on the screen. I switched to Ch9 digital and noticed a huge difference in the quality of the picture.

Not a current foxtel subscriber, but I know that some of the 'free-to-air' reproductions on foxtel used to be from an analogue feed - ie a digital re-broadcast of an analogue signal.

This may be what you have seen - the real test on wether this is true or not will be a HD set-top vs the inbuilt set-top.

Has anyone else asked LG for a 'Please Explain', apart from those who have already stated so in this thread (and myself?)

[taz_vista]

damn, we were about to get this plasma, but wit the hd tuner problem it seems like a bad idea, what would you guys recommend in gettin, as i want a 42" HD plasma with a 5yr waranty and a hd tuner(inbuilt or external) for just over $3000, i was also considering the older gen LG PX5D which wit a 5yr warranty costs us approx 2998 without ne haggling. any advice would be appreciated

thanking you

[nickelwater]

I agree with Trainspotter. If you wait for a native HD programme such as Today on Channel 9 and switch between Channel 80 (HD) and Channel 8 (SD) there is absolutely no difference in the respective pictures. I've submitted a written complaint to LG and asked for this misrepresentation in advertising to be remedied. If they offer me the claptrap that the earlier member was given I'll go to the NSW Dept of Fair Trading.

Mind you, I'm not expecting anything overnight so I was thinking of getting an NEC HD STB to tide me over. Has anyone compared a picture from an HD STB with LG's so-called in-built HD?

[Trainspotter]

Has anyone compared a picture from an HD STB with LG's so-called in-built HD?

Yes. Read the previous page. There is a MASSIVE difference in quality between an HD STB and the internal tuner. The HD STB results in a picture 4x as detailed and sharp with far less artefacts. Just as you would expect given the internal "HD" tuner is in reality only delivering an SD picture.

[DKNY]

Yes. Read the previous page. There is a MASSIVE difference in quality between an HD STB and the internal tuner. The HD STB results in a picture 4x as detailed and sharp with far less artefacts. Just as you would expect given the internal "HD" tuner is in reality only delivering an SD picture.

I said "a software upgrade is available to customers that may feel this is an issue" in my earlier reply.

you should ring LG and get a software upgrade..

picture looks heaps better.

[brisbull]

I said "a software upgrade is available to customers that may feel this is an issue" in my earlier reply.

you should ring LG and get a software upgrade..

picture looks heaps better.

DKNY, how is this upgrade performed? Serial-cable PC connection, or a visit from the service man? If the latter, how long does it take?

[Guest whistler]

Hi Guys,

i have currently got one of these Plasmas and awaiting a reply from the service agent, as soon as i find out what it is i will post! From what i can gather so far they will hook a lap top up to it and change the settings, LG said the tech would come to our house!

I agree that there is no difference in the quality between Hd and Standard!

[graf]

yeah that will be cool to try the update.

[brisbull]

yeah that will be cool to try the update.

Any update on this update? Anyone else apart from DKNY confirm it fixes the HD tuner issue?

[Guest purepixel]

Yes. Read the previous page. There is a MASSIVE difference in quality between an HD STB and the internal tuner. The HD STB results in a picture 4x as detailed and sharp with far less artefacts. Just as you would expect given the internal "HD" tuner is in reality only delivering an SD picture.

Hi Trainspotter !

I noticed that you mentioned the External HD box performed much better than the internal tuner ,

Putting aside the problem with the tuner ! what do you think of the actual unit itself (the panel ) as far as picture quality with DVD's and an external HD stb running thru it and how would you compare the PQ with the Pioneer ,Panasonic, Hitachi Panels .

If LG was to supply an external HD STB to those who are willing to purchase one would that sway your opinion about the panel !

Anyone who already owns this panel I would like to hear your opinions of the PQ putting aside the issue with the internal Tuner .

[Guest whistler]

Hi Trainspotter !

I noticed that you mentioned the External HD box performed much better than the internal tuner ,

Putting aside the problem with the tuner ! what do you think of the actual unit itself (the panel ) as far as picture quality with DVD's and an external HD stb running thru it and how would you compare the PQ with the Pioneer ,Panasonic, Hitachi Panels .

If LG was to supply an external HD STB to those who are willing to purchase one would that sway your opinion about the panel !

Anyone who already owns this panel I would like to hear your opinions of the PQ putting aside the issue with the internal Tuner .

i have purchased one of these panels as a 2 for 1 deal of Clive P with a mate and we have found them to be great, we bought them at $2430 each so we really cant complain about the price apparently all new LG's coming thru have had the upgrade done already! As usual the first of any new model has its problems but we are still waithing for our upgrade off our local warranty repairer!

We didnt really notice anything until i got a tech around to fix the antenna up as i had trouble getting a couple of the old analgue channels to be clear enough to watch! He said that the SD and HD didnt appear any different and then we showed him this forum! Thus all the problems started with trying to get a answer from the seller and the manufacturer, the seller also said that he would "bet 10 weeks of his wages that it was right!" guess me and my mate will be get a nice little package of cash in the mail thus making the plasma cheaper again!

we find the quality excellent the only thing i dont like is that when changing between componets it is a bit slow as i have to skip the first 2 and go to the componet 1 for the DVD! i love the Plasma it was purely the stuffing around and the thought that we had bought a dud and thus been misled!

Edited September 21, 2006 by whistler