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dkmaj

37" PYROD LCD (1920x1080) @ KMART

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You seem to be missing my point.

I am NOT anti 1920x1080, in fact I am all for it, and would not have anything less myself, as I do sit close enough to the screen to take advantage of the extra resolution.

I just want people to understand that unless they are going to use a 1080 display in a way that makes the extra resolution useful, it will offer little or no advantage over a lower resolution display.

That’s all I am saying.

Why is that such a problem?

My worry is that many people will be misled by the bigger resolution numbers = better picture hype, and run out and buy a 1902x1080 display expecting that it will be a big improvement over a lower res unit.

Resolution is normally one of the least important factors in providing a good picture.

There are no doubt many who want to use a display as a PC monitor, but they could be in for a shock when they discover how small text is on a 1920x1080 desktop. :blink:

By the way drsmith, I did read your less then complimentary remarks before you edited your post. :D

DVD’s can only provide a maximum of 720x576 so I am not sure how much use they would be on a 1920x1080 panel.

HD test patterns are available here:

http://www.w6rz.net/

There are also many monitor test programs on the net that can generate resolution test patterns.

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1080i goodness ???? Get a grip on reality. Anything greater than SD on a 37" is just a total and complete waste of money. Find a good charity instead if you have excess money to waste.

It's a bit like driving a V8 supercar in Sydneys peak hour traffic - you may feel good that you own it but would equally as well of in a Daihitsu Shrinki.

I suppose the only benefit would be that you could post some technical drivel on this forum about how great 1080i is.

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I have done tests many times, on all type of displays, including LCD PC monitors, and my observations match almost exactly with the standard human visual acuity model that is used is this calculator.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/vie...ancemetric.html

According to this THX recommended viewing angle of 36 degrees (wrt screenwidth) I should sit 1.7 metres from my 50" screen. Hmm... I think my head would spin, I find it more natural & comfortable at 3 metres almost double the recommended distance. So what gives??

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You seem to be missing my point.

And you seem to be missing mine.

I don't doubt your knowledge the topics being discussed here, it is far superior to mine and that many (including myself) value your input, but is it not necessary to reduce thread after thread to a useless debate on high definition sv standard definition or LCD vs plasma.

You may have your point of view, and that's fine but I feel like I'm choking on it. This thread is for those who wish to discuss issues relating to the Pyrod LCD, not for those who wish to start debates on other issues and to draw more people into those off-topic debates.

Not all you say is correct either. I am currently using a 24" widescreen LCD monitor at 1920x1200 resolution and the text is crystal clear and easy to read.

With regard to the comment I edited from my earlier post, I removed it because upon reflection I considered it provoative. As you saw it in the short time it was there I have now re-inserted it. You are too willing to catagorise everybody else into your dumbo "average consumer" group.

If you wish to engage in debate on standard definition vs high definition, please start a new thread and go for it there.

Finally, and on a good note, I would like to thank you for the HD test patterns web page. I'm sure that it will help some of us "not so average" customers to make a more informed decision on whether or not to purchase the Pyrod.

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...

Finally, and on a good note, I would like to thank you for the HD test patterns web page. I'm sure that it will help some of us "not so average" customers to make a more informed decision on whether or not to purchase the Pyrod.

Try here too: http://www.vesa.org/Public/Fpdm2/Test%20Patterns

They have test patterns for a range of screen resolutions; up to 3840x2400.

Adrian

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According to this THX recommended viewing angle of 36 degrees (wrt screenwidth) I should sit 1.7 metres from my 50" screen. Hmm... I think my head would spin, I find it more natural & comfortable at 3 metres almost double the recommended distance. So what gives??

36 degrees is the recommended viewing angle for film, and is about equal to sitting in the middle of the cinema.

Very few displays look good up that close, and a 1920x1080 resolution screen, combined with first rate 1080 video are required for good results.

A more practical viewing angle for combined SD and HD viewing is about 26 degrees, which is like sitting in the back row of the cinema, or about 2.4 meters from a 50” screen.

At that distance and screen size, you can fully resolve 768p but not 1080.

To do that, you would need to be at 2 meters.

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I don't doubt your knowledge the topics being discussed here, it is far superior to mine and that many (including myself) value your input, but is it not necessary to reduce thread after thread to a useless debate on high definition sv standard definition or LCD vs plasma.

The lowest screen res I have discussed in this thread is 768p as far as I know, which is hardly SD, but point taken, I will bugger off.

You may have your point of view, and that's fine but I feel like I'm choking on it. This thread is for those who wish to discuss issues relating to the Pyrod LCD, not for those who wish to start debates on other issues and to draw more people into those off-topic debates.

Fare enough.

Not all you say is correct either. I am currently using a 24" widescreen LCD monitor at 1920x1200 resolution and the text is crystal clear and easy to read.

Without stating your viewing distance, that is a meaningless comment.

With regard to the comment I edited from my earlier post, I removed it because upon reflection I considered it provoative. As you saw it in the short time it was there I have now re-inserted it. You are too willing to catagorise everybody else into your dumbo "average consumer" group.

It was not my intent to categorise anyone, and I don’t know how you get that impression.

Informed purchasers know what they want and why they want it. It’s the uninformed purchaser that I was directing my posts at.

Not everyone who reads this thread is well informed, so I don’t consider my posts inappropriate.

If you wish to engage in debate on standard definition vs high definition, please start a new thread and go for it there.

At no stage have I been discussing SD video or displays in this thread, I think you have this mixed up with some other thread.

Finally, and on a good note, I would like to thank you for the HD test patterns web page. I'm sure that it will help some of us "not so average" customers to make a more informed decision on whether or not to purchase the Pyrod.

Cool, I’m glad the “not so average” consumers got something out of it.

On that basis, the not so well informed should have gained a lot more. :blink:

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I suppose the only benefit would be that you could post some technical drivel on this forum about how great 1080i is.

Well some people might actually be interested in that drivel. I see there's plenty of people interesteed in V8 supercars despite the fact they can't own or drive one. Which leads me to the flaw in your analogy. The difference is, many people *can* actually afford and run a 37" 1080 panel.

PS. I forgot to mention that 1080i is great! (pity you'll never know).

According to this THX recommended viewing angle of 36 degrees (wrt screenwidth) I should sit 1.7 metres from my 50" screen. Hmm... I think my head would spin, I find it more natural & comfortable at 3 metres almost double the recommended distance. So what gives??

Yeah, results for me are "Screen size to achieve THX minimum viewing angle ...253cm 16:9 diagonal"!!!

It should say "Wallet size to achieve THX minimum viewing angle ... George Lucas"

Nice hype tool :blink:

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I've just had confirmation from Electronics Australia, the distributor of this panel, that the DVI input is not HDCP compliant. In my opinion this makes it pretty useless as a long term investment, if you're planning on using Blu-Ray or HD-DVD players with it to get full 1080i. If not, then it might well be a good option.

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36 degrees is the recommended viewing angle for film, and is about equal to sitting in the middle of the cinema.

Interesting. Now, digital cinemas have been coming around in the US. The initial resolution is 2048x1080. (=2k) with a newer version being double this (4k).

A more practical viewing angle for combined SD and HD viewing is about 26 degrees, which is like sitting in the back row of the cinema, or about 2.4 meters from a 50” screen.

At that distance and screen size, you can fully resolve 768p but not 1080.

I set out to prove you wrong but found only evidence that supports your conclusion:

"4K vs. 2K.

Should the 4K picture not be far better than this dull 2K picture you have now? This is the big question raised in Hollywood these days. What is strange is that the answer is ‘No’. Let’s explain: if you sit at three screen heights from the screen base and look carefully at a very sharp digital image in ideal conditions, you will not be able to sort one pixel from the other. It is not the projector’s limitation or the electronics; it is just that your eyes have reached their limit resolution. This is true if the image is 2K (1920 pixels along the width of the screen) and is even greater if it is 4K (4096 pixels). Therefore, in order to benefit from the added resolution of a true 4k picture, you need to sit in the very front row or even a little closer to be safe. But, in this case, your vision angle, which is around 60°, will intercept only half of the screen at a time. And what will you see? Half of the pixels, something like 2000…. The true question is thus “Why should we pay an unknown –but presumably high- price or wait five to ten years for these 4K pictures from which we will never truly benefit?”

Now, back to my hotrod 1080p screen. Night everyone!

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Just so people understand, there is no “1080i goodness” with cheap LCD’s, as they use bob deinterlacing with 1080i source, which limits vertical resolution to 540.

Gee some new comers here like the sound of their own typing, perhaps they could do it without pressing "Add Reply" and give the rest of us a break.

Owen joined in on this thread to make a very good point, for any one that wants to listen.

Check before buying to see if you think at 1080i it gives a softer less detailed picture. If it is not that noticeable to you and at this price well hey. The big beef with bob deinterlacing is that up until early this year many manufactures were doing this with their top of the line top dollar displays.

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I have obtained some information from Electronics Australia regarding their dead pixel policy for the 37" Pyrod, as follows

Bright Pixel (A lightened pixel under a dark background): Maximum=0.

Dark Pixel (A dimmed or different color pixel under pure red, pure green or pure blue background): Maximum=7.

Total number of defective pixels: Maximum=7.

The description in brackets is copied directly from the Electronics Australia pixel policy document.

It would be interesting to know from those who have purchased this unit how many (if any) dead pixles they have. If anyone with the unit has a few dark pixels (<7), it may be in your interest to find a bright one, then you can get the unit replaced under warranty.

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There were none reported from the first 300 panels sold from last year, not sure if there has been any since (I haven't asked) but intially there was never any issues to speak of.

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Gee some new comers here like the sound of their own typing, perhaps they could do it without pressing "Add Reply" and give the rest of us a break.

Owen joined in on this thread to make a very good point, for any one that wants to listen.

My ears are still ringing and my throat is still sore.

Check before buying to see if you think at 1080i it gives a softer less detailed picture. If it is not that noticeable to you and at this price well hey. The big beef with bob deinterlacing is that up until early this year many manufactures were doing this with their top of the line top dollar displays.

As I advised last night the manual for the Pyrod states that the unit has motion adaptive de-interlacing.

I do not trust the manual 100%, but it has more creadability than a statement like "If it is not that noticeable to you and at this price well hey."

Your advice to check the picture is good and it is appreciated, however no evidence has been presented to suggest that the user manual is incorrect in relation to the unit's de-interlacing technique.

If you have the time and are curious enough, why not check out the unit for yourself. I for one would be very interested in your opinion on the unit's de-interlacing from the perspective of having seen the picture.

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If you have the time and are curious enough, why not check out the unit for yourself. I for one would be very interested in your opinion on the unit's de-interlacing from the perspective of having seen the picture.

Yes, I'm sure that the home theatre specialist at you local Kmart would be only to happy to demonstrate for you :blink:

Agree that see it for yourself is the way to go but suspect that they may not be set up the best in store and would probably take the results with a grain of salt anyway, in fact I would say that most retailers suffer this issue, some panels I've seen on display are set up so poorly I wonder how anyone buys them.

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Yes, I'm sure that the home theatre specialist at you local Kmart would be only to happy to demonstrate for you :blink:

I have been through this with Kmart and it is very much a case of what you see on the screen from their SD source is all you can judge the unit on. My point was directed at those who question the unit's de-interlacing technique without evidence.

I have infact managed to get one Kmart store to agree to refund my money if I purchase a unit and I'm not satisfied with it.

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My point was directed at those who question the unit's de-interlacing technique without evidence.

You would be foolish not to question the claim in the manual, when only a couple of displays on the Australian market POSSIBLY have motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i source, including all the displays costing $15k to $26k.

Maybe it does for 480i-576i.

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Hi,

I guess in this point we are not sure what sort of de-interlacer it has. Someone out there who has the tv and has tested the unit, could you help us here. Is it Bob or Motion.

One question I have is thus it have an upconverter to convert my sd dvds from a non-progressive scan dvd player to 1080i or whatever. And is it good at doing the job or would it be necessary to buy a dvd player with an upconverter.

I see that Bing Lees has one for $199. Is that any good? I also heard about the Panasonic S97 ? Does that one upconvert?

Cheers.

Mario

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Problem is that upscaling DVD players convert to 1080i, which this cheap display cannot properly deinterlace.

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Problem is that upscaling DVD players convert to 1080i, which this cheap display cannot properly deinterlace.

Stick a PC into it with a decent scaling software and that may become interesting.

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The 2 options for de-interlacing are MADI and Motion, with the Motion having 3 levels: Low, Medium and High.

Upscaling DVD players are a no show to upscale as it just scales it back down. I have a modded Xbox and thru XBMC I can normally output up to 1080i on the NTSC setting however on this screen whether I play a PAL or NTSC DVD it still scales back to 1920x540. This is thru YPbPr.

It looks like HTPCs are the only way to get the best out of this screen.

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Problem is that upscaling DVD players convert to 1080i, which this cheap display cannot properly deinterlace.

Owen, can those DVD player upconvert to 720p?

Also Campsters and others who have this unit and have tested it, give us some idea re. de-interlacer and upconverter.

Cheers.

Mario

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Owen, can those DVD player upconvert to 720p?

Also Campsters and others who have this unit and have tested it, give us some idea re. de-interlacer and upconverter.

Cheers.

Mario

Hi,

I also want to know something else.

If it does have motion adaptive de-interlacing, is it for sd sources (480i or 576i) only or is it also for 1080i sources?

I'll be a bit surprised, pleasantly though, if it is for 1080i sources. I would still buy it though.

Cheers.

Mario

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Owen, can those DVD player upconvert to 720p?

the LG upscaler DVD has a choice of 1080i or 720P

cheers

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